Thanks so much to Hideshi Hachino for this fantastic interview. b-flower was part of that amazing generation of pop bands that appeared in Japan during the late 80s and early 90s, releasing a couple of singles on Sugarfrost, gaining recognition by the likes of the NME, signing for a big label like Toshiba in Japan, releasing many albums and gone on hiatus in the late 90s. Fantastic pop that transcended the barrier of language. Please enjoy, and if you understand Japanese (or want to use Google translate) please visit his blog too!

++ Hello Hachino-san! Thanks so much for being up for an interview.  It’s hard to cover your huge discography, but let’s take it as an introduction to your music. Alright! I hear you have a new band called Livingston Daisy. Are there any releases coming out? Care to tell me a bit about this new project of yours?

Nice meeting you, Roque-san.  So flattered that you’re interested in a band which has barely been active.  Thanks for asking me for an interview – Yoroshiku.
Yes, I’ve just resumed releasing songs with a band called Livingstone Daisy – for the first time in just about a decade.
It’s a three-piece band.  I’m with Sakana Hosomi, who co-produced b-flower albums and did gigs together from 1995 or so and has been active on his own as keyboardist, arranger, producer and ambient musician under such monikers as ‘hosomi’ and ‘maju.’   The other member is Okabe from b-flower.
We’ve digitally released “Tokyo Snowscape” in October 2010, “This World of Sorrow” in February 2011 and “June Song” in September, and are currently planning to put out an album as CD before too long.

++ So let’s talk b-flower. First thing I want to know, as I’ve been curious about it for years. What does the name mean?

My favourite American poet Richard Brautigan once wrote a beautiful poem in which he likened roadside drunks to flowers of foreign origins, which inspired “Brautigan-Flower” developing into “b-flower.”

++ Back in time. When did the band start? And how did you all knew each other and decided to start a band?
In 1984 or 85, I believe.
We started in strong sympathy with the sound of bands which belonged to such UK independent labels as Rough Trade and Cherry Red.  The other members were my uni friends, save guitarist Suzuki who came to an audition we held at a studio where we practised.

++ Was b-flower your first band?

From 1980 or so I went through a real trial-and-error period in search for the best style of vocals to express myself, by following various vocalists in various copy bands, ranging from one copying The Crash and The Jam, another The Rolling Stones to one doing Roxy Music and Duran Duran.

++ On myspace I see some demos from way back, from 1986. What’s the story behind them? These are fantastic gems that I guess never saw the light. Are there more of these? Have you ever thought releasing them at some point?

It was around the time when cassette 4-track MTRs became abound and we recorded those demos just eager to see how they would shape up.  None of them are of quality decent enough to be heard, but I decided to upload them on my Myspace in line with what I’ve been putting out in my blog, which I call my music chronicle.
There’s loads of unreleased songs in which I sang nonsense as they were yet to have proper lyrics in Japanese… yes, it might be fun to release them one day.

++ Your first release was “Nichiyo-bi no Mitsubachi” and it was self-released. How was that experience? And how different was it compared to working with Toshiba EMI for example later?

The first release was all handmade and loads of fun.  But we were way too inexperienced in playing, singing, sound making, recording and mixing down to achieve the sound that we were aiming for.  Based on that experience we decided to hire a producer at Toshiba EMI, by which we gained some and lost some, but the very experience is now a truly great asset.

++ Did you ever consider singing in English as many other Japanese bands did?
I would have tried writing lyric if I had had a command of English good enough to express my emotions and landscapes on my mind exactly as I wished.  Having said that, as I believe the Japanese language is very fit for expressions of nuance and subtlety, I might as well use it as a main vehicle even if I could speak English well.

++ I know your band from the Sugarfrost singles, one of my favourite labels ever. I have both your singles with them of course. I wanted to ask how did you end up in that label and if you ever got to meet Akiko-san? And if you did, how was that?

So glad to hear that you have those singles, thanks!  At the start of 1990’s we self-released an EP “日曜日のミツバチ (Nichiyo-bi no mitsubachi or, Nothing On Sunday)” and I took its copies to Django in Osaka (now in Nara), a record shop dedicated to UK/US indiepop – such a rarity those days – and asked them to sell on our behalf (I discovered later that Nelories too had their cassettes on sale there).  The staff of Django and Akiko-san knew each other and that’s how she came to know and took to b-flower, as I understand.  She later asked us in for a compilation album she was making at Sugarfrost.

Akiko-san is an amazing woman, equipped with tremendous power and will to get things done, whilst blessed with a great deal of good common touch.  I went to Liverpool to see Akiko-san and John when they lived there.  This year too I met her once in Kyoto when she came to Japan.

++ The NME praised your single “Stay Still” in 1993 comparing you to REM and Nico. That must have been on of b-flower’s biggest highlights? A Japanese band, singing in Japanese transcending frontiers. How did that feel like? I do think though thhttp://www.cloudberryrecords.com/blog/wp-admin/post-new.phpat your influences were much broader than REM or Nico, right? More neo-aco stuff?

If honest, I was taken aback by the reactions in the UK.  Upon the UK release Akiko-san and John maintained, “Language makes no barrier,” whilst in Japan what we were often hearing was, “This kind of music should sound better when performed in English.”  It was more so than not that our standing was that of an outsider from the small circle of Japanese indiepop.  That’s why it meant loads to us when the Brits appreciated our sound, the music per se, all the more they spoke a different language.  Truly grateful to Akiko-san and John for backing us up on the release.
My main influences are the UK/US rock, pop and folk in general from the 60’s to 90’s.  I was also inspired by the pop and rock in Japan, including Kayou-kyoku (standard or Showa-era Japanese pop), which themselves have taken inspirations from their western counterparts.

++ And how did you get into the indiepop/neo-aco stuff? Did you ever go to the UK to see bands?

Thanks so much to Andrea Reid for the interview. I’m really thrilled to at last be in touch with The Wilderness Children as ALL their records are among my favourites. It all happened thanks to David McLeish who put me in touch with her after he had uploaded some videos by the band including a live performance!! After that The Wilderness Children have also set up a facebook page with lots of photos and memorabilia, so you should all become fans! And now just enjoy the interview!

++ Hi Andrea, how are things going? I see some Wilderness Children videos have been unearthed and are already on Youtube! How did this come about? I’ve been looking for more stuff from you for ages!

I’m kind of bemused to see Wilderness Children videos on Youtube. Someone from Dundee who runs a club, had been collecting bits and pieces over the past year and found the videos, talked to Phil the drummer and stuck stuff on Youtube. It turns out he lives near our old house in Dundee and had been intrigued when he bought a single off a website to see the address on it. Kind of a walking the same streets thing….. It’s been really nice to see the stuff again and also pretty funny as I’m not sure anyone else even knew we existed at the time never mind now!

++ So let’s go back in time. Was The Wilderness Children your first band? How did the band start? How did you all knew each other?

We had all done different bits and pieces with other people before. I remember Fraser getting in touch with the Wildhouse (another band from Dundee) – Fraser then met up with Ian and Billy, John Weir was involved at points, Peter Moog and Susan Henderson.
We finished up with Phil on drums, me singing, Fraser alternating on guitar and bass (bass live) and Mike Kane on guitar.
Lots of people were involved in different ways, at different times. Laura Walker for instance doing art work, back drops, posters and things, or Sandy who did videos, another guy organized slides and film stuff we projected when we were playing, others did photos, we had a guy who drew cartoons for us. Then we had people like Joe driving us around, or others who just turned up and contributed just by being who they were!
In some ways when I think back it was more about having something to do and people to be with who knew they wanted to do something creative with their time. None of us had any money and so I think what we did was create our own entertainment out of nothing. There were places that we could use to do this like the Grey Lodge or the DRCU where we could go, practice, put on gigs.

++ And what influenced you or sparked you to start a band? Did you have any music heroes then?

We all liked music that’s pretty much why we played, and we didn’t see why we couldn’t do something good – it didn’t really matter to us if anyone else liked it or not as long as we did. We all had different bands, musicians we liked – pretty varied I guess – I seem to remember I was pretty obsessed by the Jesus and Mary Chain around then. I think me Mike and Fraser agreed we all liked My Bloody Valentine. I couldn’t speak for the others on musical tastes.

++ Where does the name of the band come from?

Was never greatly keen on the name but at the time it was the only one we had and I guess we were all too lazy to think of something else. Billy came up with it from a song.

++ How was Dundee back then? Where did you usually hang out? What other like minded bands were around? I think you and The Wildhouse are
the only bands I’ve ever heard from your town!

I think I usually hung out at home…. We practiced in the Grey Lodge, went to the DRCU, drunk in nearby pubs but didn’t have much money to do much more… We didn’t get on very well with some of the other bands in Dundee… We all had hugely exaggerated opinions of ourselves and spent a lot of our time thinking up stuff to say about each other. People would then write stuff up in a fanzine, which would set off another round of outrage.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? Any favorites?

We constantly gigged. We played Dundee, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen, London etc etc. We played anywhere we could which sometimes pissed Mike off to be honest. I seem to remember playing at the end of a jumble sale somewhere, there was still bric a brac lying about when we were setting up.
Favourite gigs – as a highlight playing with Strummer was something as he was a hero of mine. Really enjoyed when we played in Ayr at different points and anytime we played with Blam Blam YC who liked a drink too. Also we supported Dinosaur Jr – it was a plus as they gave me a couple of t-shirts. I really enjoyed when Phil’s brother drove us round England.

++ Most of your releases appeared on a label called Doss Records. Who were they? Care to tell me a bit about it?

We just put the records out ourselves and that was the name we called our pretend label!

++ And what about Magic Bus Records?

Magic Bus was Andy Wood who was one of the few people who clapped enthusiastically at any gigs we played He also did a lot of fanzine writing and helped organize gigs, flyers and the like.

++ First I want to ask you about the only release I’m missing from you, the flexi. As I have never heard it before and it was your first release, I was wondering how different does it sounds from the rest and if you could tell me the story behind it, how was that experience of recording your first single?

I think we might have recorded that under the floor in our flat in Dundee, we cut a hole and made a basement practice area. I’m not entirely sure though.

++ After that you released the fantastic 7″ “We’re A Council House Punk Rock Band”. I like the title a lot. But it makes me wonder, did you feel closer to punk than to pop? And also, who is this Mrs. Susan Spence you sing about?

Pop wasn’t really part of my life.
Mrs Susan Spence was a dentist who nearly murdered Fraser when taking out his wisdom teeth. The song wasn’t about that but we her name was good.

++ Next release was even more fabulous, the “If You Love Him, Let Him Go” 7″. By now I start wondering, was there any major label interest at some point? And what’s the story behind this great song?

We were from Dundee, no-one knew we existed! Any bands at that time that sounded a bit noisy with a female singer weren’t exactly in high demand!
The song was about depression and arguments. Life wasn’t a bed of roses for any of us.

++ And then the last 7″ is an indiepop classic for me, “Plastic Bag From Tescos”. Is that your favourite place to shop Andrea? And again, please, tell me the story about this song. This should have been a hit I think!

Tesco isn’t my favourite place to shop, in fact I pretty much avoid it!
Fraser had a plastic bag from tescos with cards and stuff from a previous girlfriend in his Mum’s shed. I told him to toss it. That’s what the song was about!

++ I was checking that you recorded your stuff in Edinburgh, at Chamber Studios. That city I do know and I really liked it. How do you like it in Edinburgh? And why did you have to go all the way there to record?

We went there to record with a guy called Jamie as he had a good reputation and it wasn’t too expensive. We had very little money so that was always pretty important. Edinburgh isn’t all that far from Dundee.

++ And then one last release. A 12″ at last. It’s the “Paint For Me a Picture” EP. And that was your goodbye. I was wondering, have you ever thought in putting all your releases together on some sort of retrospective album?

I’m intrigued that anyone now has even heard of us! So the answer would be we’d given that no thought!

++ And what about unreleased tracks? Are there still more songs by The Wilderness Children waiting to see the light of day?

We had a whole lot other songs, probably tapes of bits are mouldering away in our attics

++ Well, so 1990, last release. And then what happened? When and why did you split?

Last release. Fraser and I moved to another town. We all did other bits, People like Mike have been doing loads of stuff in other bands etc. Jobs, lives, children… the usual things!

++ Were you involved with music after?

Yep did other recording with other people. Mike has been done a lot of stuff – just works away at it.

++ Are you all still in touch? If so, what are The Wilderness Children up to these days?

We talk over facebook, and have been laughing and thinking recently since these videos were unearthed. Last time I saw Mike and John was at Fraser’s funeral so its been nice to get out old photos and things at a happier point now.

++ I do have to ask you, in general Scotland produces so much great music. Why do you think that is?

No idea!

++ Looking back in retrospect. What were the best moments for you with the band? Any anecdotes you’d like to share?

The best moments were when we played gigs. It was just good fun – lots of drinking, laughing and arguing.

++ One last question, tell me about Dundee, I’d love to visit some time. What are the sights to see? And is there any particular Dundee dish you can’t miss?

Sights in Dundee – well I’m thinking you’d just wander and see where it took you. New V&A museum opening there soon. Visit the Rep Theatre.
Food – who knows what’s a speciality in Dundee – Dundee Cake…. All I know is I miss white pudding suppers as I can’t get them where I stay now (some kind of greasy oatmeal thing with chips and lots of vinegar).

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Listen
The Wilderness Children – Plastic Bag From Tescos

Thanks so much to Richard Farnell for getting in touch and for the interview! I blogged just some weeks ago about them and you can read that here and also make sure to check the comments as the Peel Session plus some demos are available to download thanks to the band. In this interview Richard clears up some questions and mistakes on the write-up I did. Enjoy!

++ Hi Richard! Thanks so much for getting in touch! So you were telling me you were from Stocksbridge and not from Huddersfield. Do you still live there? Was there any kind of scene there back then?

++ And two of the other Suncharms lived in different cities, right? Which makes me wonder, how did you get to meet each other? And was it easy for you all to practice?

Marcus and myself were in Stocksbridge. The other members lived in other districts of Sheffield whilst John the guitarist was based in Bamford which is a small village just outside Sheffield-a mere 30 minute drive out of town-in the peak district national park. We mostly practiced in his attic – but early on in Marcus’ garage.

++ So the band started under the name The Eunuchs. Was this your first band? And how do you remember that chance encounter with David Gedge when he told you to change the name?

Yes – this was our first band..we chose the name partly as a response to the ‘cock rock’ posturing of a lot of the bands around in the eighties and Marcus and me were big fans of The Dead Kennedys and McCarthy who promoted a strong left wing/pro feminist political stance. I suppose looking back it was a ‘punk’ name but punk was one of our early influences…Pistols / Buzzcocks / D.K’s / Husker Du in particular.  It was Marcus and Matt who met with David Gedge…I’m pretty sure they just gave him a copy of our first demo tape and he said something like – ‘You might need to change that name lads!” – maybe Marcus will remember but I wasn’t there myself.

++ Did you record or release anything under that name? I do know you released a song under the name Charming Seed, why didn’t you stick to that name?

We released nothing as the Eunuchs. The reason we used ‘Charming Seed’ was that the bloke who released a Sheffield bands compilation called ‘Rubberoid’ took so long about it that by the time this early song appeared we felt like we’d moved on. We changed the name to hint that it was The Suncharms but that it was a ‘secret’ track almost. I actually like the song now but at the time it felt like old news.

++ I’ve never tasted the Sun Charm soda, how does it taste? Is it your favourite soda?

It’s well over 20 years since I tasted it but I recall it being pretty cheap and nasty!..a bit like ‘Panda Pops’ which your British readers will probably know!.

++ You were around in the early 90s, just after the big wave of guitar pop bands in the UK, the so called C86. How much did that influence you?

We were hugely influenced by C86 – that compilation turned us on to loads of favourites. Marcus and myself in particular bonded over the sounds of such bands as The Pastels, Sea Urchins, Field Mice, Wolfhounds, McCarthy etc whilst newer bands such as Pale Saints and My Bloody Valentine were coming through and exciting us. Many hours were spent in Marcus’ bedroom listening to indie-pop records – he was also a big collector of Sarah records too.

++ So how did you end up signing with Wilde Club Records? Was there interest from other labels as well? Any majors?

We were hugely naive in this respect – a thing common to most indie bands of the 80’s/90’s We sent out several copies of our first demo tape and kept our fingers crossed! – a good friend from Stocksbridge called Daniel had recently bought the first Catherine Wheel single and noted the address on the sleeve-he was tasked with the job of sending out the tapes and to be honest Wilde Club were the first to ring up!. They wanted to release our demo as it was-with no re-recording or overdubs so we just thought – “great – we’ll be able to have a 12″ EP out without much effort”.  There was no major label interest but we were so fiercely indie that we’d probably not have signed with a major anyway. Major labels had a terrible reputation and I do remember being shocked when The Wedding Present signed to RCA.

In around 1992 Slumberland records from the U.S wrote to ask if we had a track they could release but due to our own disorganisation it never happened – we still regret this as it would have been great to get a record out in the States.

++ You recorded a Peel Session. I always wondered how the process for it worked. Did they call you on the phone or what? And then what happened? Any anecdotes you could share?

To be honest doing the Peel session was both a thrill and a disappointment-here’s why:-

I think a BBC researcher phoned us up to say they wanted us to do a session – obviously we were thrilled and began to rehearse for the recording-I think we got a couple of weeks notice. On the way down the motorway our van broke down for a couple of hours so we had a real panic that we would miss our session – however thanks to Matt’s driving skills and Chris’s map reading we made it to the famous Maida Vale studios. I’d been listening to the John Peel show for years and I always assumed that he was in the studio whilst the bands played live but I was disappointed to find that the tracks were recorded live in the afternoon and mixed by an engineer for broadcast the following week!.  I do have fond memories of the studio itself – a large room with a grand piano in the corner and wires, amps, mics and headphones everywhere. It was great to be recorded live but it was a shame we couldn’t meet the great man himself.

In the Peel Sessions books we are annoyingly listed as The ”Sunchalms” and my name is mis-spelt too so our brush with broadcasting fame was rather frustrating in some ways!

++ First release included the fabulous Sparkle. This song is big! Care to tell me how this song came about? What’s the story behind it?

I don’t remember too much about the writing process of this one but I think it was a catchy riff that Matt came up with that we then fleshed out in rehearsals.

++ And what about the creative process for The Suncharms? How did it usually work?

Marcus would scribble away with his note pad and craft the lyrics whilst we worked out the tune…we often only heard the full words at a much later date as his vocals were often buried in the mix as was the style of the day I suppose.

++ Then there was another EP, the one that included Space Ship. For this song you even recorded a promo video. How was that experience? Why did you choose this song?

I suspect we chose to do the video for ”Spaceship” as I think we felt it a stronger song than ”Tranquil Day”. I do know that Matt was studying film at college in Batley – (near Leeds and Bradford)-so we filmed it at the student house he was renting and any visual effects were added later..he would tell you more I’m sure but I think it was a case of him learning camera techniques for his course and making a pop video was a good way to learn whilst being a good experience for the band. He directed it himself and had a friend on camera duty.

++ You also played many gigs, especially after the first EP. Which were your favourite gigs and why?

Early favourites (as The Eunuchs) were supporting The Brilliant Corners as I was a big fan and also a support slot on a Sarah records acts night with The Orchids and St.Christopher.

One gig which I remember with both joy and horror was when we supported the mighty Television Personalities at Nottingham Kool Kat club-which was a thrill as me and Marcus are big fans. The TVP’s wanted to borrow our drumkit which we were more than happy with but we hadn’t bargained on them playing an inspired but sprawling set which lasted about 2 hours! – the problem was we’d organised a bus load of our Sheffield fans to come down and everyone had to wait with us whilst we waited for the drums…that in itself was fine but my girlfriend at the time was drinking all night and proceeded to throw up all over the walls of the venue and then collapsed!…by about 1am I just wanted to go home.

++ And how was the Sound City festival gig? Did you play any other festivals?

I can barely remember this festival except that we played the Leadmill – (where I worked on the bar) and PULP played it too-though possibly the next night. We were also featured in the NME in a souvenir pull out page to promote the festival.  This might have been the gig when our lead guitarist John nearly died on stage with a serious kidney complaint and as soon as he played the last note of the gig he was taken to the hospital by ambulance. I’d been so concerned before the gig as he looked so ill that I got blind drunk and walked on stage to promptly fall backwards over my amp – it made a great noise though!.

++ In 1993 you started recording tracks for an album. Was it for Wilde Club? Why didn’t it get released?

The recordings were to be for an album but our relationship with Wilde Club had ended by this point.  The only tracks I can now recall were those featured on the Peel Session..”Magic Carpet” etc. We started to record some tracks in a studio near Bramhall Lane (the Sheffield UTD football ground) but I honestly don’t know if we did more than two or three rough sketches of songs.

it was never released because it barely even got started!.

++ And what happened to those songs? Are there many unreleased tracks? Have you ever thought putting together some sort of retrospective release?

I don’t know of any unreleased tracks – there was a live video of a full gig at Sheffield’s Library theatre -(some of which formed the basis for the Sparkle video now on you-tube) but sadly none of us have seen it since and as far as I know no copies have survived. I’d love to see a retrospective compilation but I don’t know if there’s enough interest out there..hello Cherry Red?!

++ So what happened with The Suncharms? Why did you split? Were you all involved with music after?

I sadly can’t recall why it all came to an end – I think it just fizzled out during 1993 with band members moving town, changing careers, getting married etc and maybe we all started hanging round with different groups of friends not connected to the band. I suppose with no record label and no-one but ourselves to push us along we just gave up the ghost.

The good news is Marcus and myself remain best friends and we see Matt and Chris occasionally for birthdays or whatever-so we’re mostly all in touch. but I’ve not seen John since we had a reuinion in a pub 10 years ago…so if you read this John – hope you are well and do try to get in touch!.

++ What are you doing these days? Do you still pick up your bass?

In 1995 I moved to Manchester to work in Vinyl Exchange records which I now co-own

In 1998 I joined Screen Prints after answering an advert on the shop notice board which mentioned my all time favourite band FELT…one mention of them and I just had to join the band.  We released several 7″ singles but then around 2001 this band too seemed to call it a day – though happily we too are all still good friends. I do still pick up my bass but not often enough – I tend to play along to old 80’s indie videos on You-tube..this is terribly sad isn’t it?

++ Looking back in time, what was the best moment of being part of The Suncharms? Will you do it all the same way again?

The best part was the comeraderie of being in a band with close friends and playing gigs with some of our favourite groups…if I could go back in time I’d rehearse more, play more gigs and hold out for Creation records to sign us!!

++ One last question. I’ve never been to Sheffield, so I was wondering, when I go, what would you recommend seeing or doing there?

Go up the arts tower, drink in the Washington pub and put some Henderson’s relish on your fish n’ chips!…(Anyone from Sheffield will relate to that)

++ Thanks again Richard! Anything else you’d like to add?

Just thanks for the opportunity to ramble on and if you want any more info don’t hesitate to ask.

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Listen
The Suncharms – Sparkle

Thanks so much to Bea Colin for the interview! April Showers only released one single but what a single! Considered an indiepop classic, “Abandon Ship” is one of those songs you never forget. Thanks to my friend Jessel I got in touch with her and learned a bit more about this great Glaswegian band.

++ Hello Beatrice! Thanks so much for being up for this interview. It’s really an honor as your one and only single is such a classic on my book and also for many others it has reached cult status. How do you think your songs have aged?

Thank you for asking. Abandon Ship still sounds pretty good to me. My children even quite like it.

++ So let’s go back in time. April Showers was formed by you and Jonathan Bernstein, right? When and how did you knew each other, and what sparked you two to start a band together?

I didn’t really know Jonathan that well. He worked in a record shop in Glasgow. I was in a band called The French Impressionists when I was 17 and was fired. Soon after I got a call from Jonathan. We used to have band rehearsals in his bedroom and he used to sing these warbly but incredibly catchy songs to me. I thought he was really strange and quirky. He is also very funny so that helped.

++ Was April Showers your first band? And where does the name come from?

As I said, I was in another band who were sort of jazz-inspired – basically a piano and voice. I wrote the lyrics. We were doing quite well but the piano player decided I wasn’t good enough and hired two new singers.

I’m not sure where the name came from. Jonathan thought of it.

++ Talking of April Showers, what would you say is your favourite month? And why?

I like most of the year. Except maybe the depths of winter when it gets dark at 3.30 in the afternoon.

++ You only released that one single, in both 7″ and 12″ on Big Star Records which was a subsidiary of Chrysalis, a big label. How did you end up signing with them?

Someone from Rough Trade heard a demo we’d recorded in Jonathan’s bedroom with my then boyfriend, James Grant (from Love and Money). He paid for us to do a proper demo – which we recorded backed by members of Orange Juice. It seemed pretty easy to get record deals in those days. They formed a new label for us, Big Star, which Del Amitir eventually signed to.

++ The single included two fantastic, fabulous, songs: “Abandon Ship” and “Everytime I Say Goodbye”. Care to tell me the story behind these two songs?

Jonathan wrote them. They’re just classic pop songs that he scribbled down on a piece of paper. Although I think Jonathan a hugely talented person, I don’t think they have any deep and profound meaning.

++ The record was produced by Anne Dudley from Art of Noise. How was the experience with working with her?

She was very nice. A bit like a school teacher, but very organized and rather strict. I love the string section she orchestrated.

++ Then there was a 7″ that was almost ready but never got released, the “While the City Sleeps” 7″. What happened with it? That was prior to the “Abandon Ship” one, right?

We recorded that for a Belgian label, Crepescule. It was before and I can’t remember why it wasn’t released now.

++ From what I’ve read you had many other songs like “Any Wednesday”, “Don’t Stay Away Too Long” or “All Of The Stars In The Sky”, were these recorded? Maybe in demo form at least?

I only know the first one. I don’t recognize the other two. Are they are songs? I heard something on the net once which claimed it was us but wasn’t. We recorded about eight songs in demo – they were all pretty good.

++ And how come you didn’t get to release more records?

We were going to record an album but in classic rock and roll fashion had a huge fight, fell out and split up. Short and sweet.

++ Have you ever thought about releasing some sort of retrospective CD with all your stuff? I think it may do well!

We did think about it but nothing of any playable quality exists, unfortunately. We looked into it a few years ago – I had a few cassettes but sadly they were copies of copies so no one could do it.

++ What about gigs, did you gig a lot? Any particular ones that you remember?

We never played live. We couldn’t – there were only two of us and Jonathan didn’t play an instrument. No, wait, we might have done once, with members of Friend’s Again, a local band. I can’t remember what we played. It was possibly ‘Wild Thing.’

++ Being from Glasgow and around the early 80s, I was wondering how influential was Postcard Records for you?

I loved Postcard and we knew most of the people involved. I really wanted to be a singer/songwriter and so went off after April Showers and formed my own band, Pale Fire. Glasgow had been really fashionable in the early eighties. By the time I had my band up and running, the spotlight had moved on and being from Glasgow was the kiss of death. We played lost of gigs but didn’t get anywhere.

++ And what other bands from the time did you enjoy? How was the scene back then in Glasgow? Where would go and hang out and watch bands?

The scene was really exciting. Everyone used to go and see each other play live – the French Impressionists were on the fringes of Postcard. The bass player from Aztec Camera eventually ended up playing in my band, Pale Fire. We used to go to a bar called The Rock Garden even though we were under-age.

++ Are you still in touch with Jonathan? If so, what is he up to these days?

I saw Jonathan a couple of weeks ago. He lived in LA and writes novels for children and screenplays. He’s really successful.

++ You have published a couple of novels and also many short stories. What are you working on these days? Maybe your third novel?

Yes I’m working on another novel.

++ I’m always impressed by professors, I would love to be one in the not so distant future. How was your experience teaching creative writing? And is there any similarity or anything from being in a band that you later used as experience as a professional?

I wouldn’t say there are any similarities, no. You are, in a sense, on a stage, but that’s as far as it goes.

++ Aside from work and music, what other things do you enjoy? Do you have any hobbies?

I have two kids, who take up a lot of time. I love the cinema and am about to start writing a screenplay. Hobbies? Er, swimming?

++ I’ve been in Glasgow twice now, and I love the city. I haven’t done that much tourism, but have seen some sights around town. I was wondering what are your favourite places in Glasgow, and if there are any sights you’d totally recommend me seeing next time I’m around?

I love the Art School. I also like Tramway in the South Side and the Botanical Gardens and Byres Road in the West End. It’s a great city even in the rain.

++ Also, this might sound silly, but I got a crush with Irn Bru. Do you like it? What about the haggis, tatties and neeps? Are there any other Scottish favorite of yours?

I’m afraid I don’t like any of it. I like Scottish strawberries and raspberries in the summer and there are some really great seafood restaurants serving local produce but no, I’m not a big fan of traditional Scottish food. I do, however, eat porridge in the winter.

++ Let’s start wrapping the interview now Beatrice, in retrospect, what were your favourite moments being part of April Showers? Would you do everything the same way again?

April Showers came out of the blue. I was 19, at university and all of a sudden we got a record deal, were being flown down to London and going to parties with pop stars like Wham and Duran Duran. It was very strange and sort of unreal. What I did learn very quickly is that your shelf life in the business is very, very short. We were there and then we were gone. Afterwards, I failed all my exams at university and had to spend a year catching up. After university I tried to reach the same level of success with my own band but it didn’t work. Then I became a journalist – and later a writer. I am grateful for the experience but glad that I gave up when I did and didn’t keep chasing elusive pop-stardom.

Jonathan and I sometimes talk about what it would it have been like if we hadn’t split up. Who knows if we would have had any lasting success and where we would have ended up? April Showers were a short moment of my life. We were very lucky to have got so far and I’m really thrilled that people still remember the song so fondly.

++ Thanks again so much! Anything else you’d like to add?

Just thanks for your interest. It seems slightly bizarre to me that the single is still talked about at all.

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Listen
April Showers – Abandon Ship

Thanks so much to Jenni Taylor for the interview! The Mondo Crescendo was one of those great fuzzy pop bands that appeared in the late 90s on the west coast of the US. Before that, they used to be called Juniper and were based in DC. You can read my interviews to Douglas and Scott from Juniper on the blog as well, to give you a wider perspective of those days.

++ Hi Jenni! Thanks so much for the interview! I noticed you still make music with a band called The Vexers. Care to tell me a bit about them?

The Vexers were a project that Mike, (the second bassist for the Mondo Crescendo,) and I started with a guitar player we met in LA named Tres Warren right after the MC disbanded. It’s long defunct now. The Vexers ended sometime in 2004, if I remember correctly. We put out a full-length and an EP on Ace Fu Records out of NYC in around 2002-2003ish. We toured relentlessly and after a while, I decided not to do it anymore.

Post Vexers: The drummer, Boz took on the roll of front man and formed a band called Mountain High. Mike Hammel, (Mondo Crescendo, Vexers,) married his sweetheart and, I believe, is possibly still making music in Philly. Tres and his friend Elizabeth Hart moved to NYC and formed the Psychic Ills. I moved to Nashville in 2009 and I’m moving out of the country at the end of September. I get my musical kicks playing on the streets when I’m in the mood, or on my front porch with friends when the weather’s right. I haven’t got any plans to start an official band, tour or make records at this point in my life.

++ So like a year ago, I interviewed two of your former bandmates about the great band that was Juniper. After you split, some of you continued playing together as The Mondo Crescendo. How did this work out? How did one band develop from the other? What would you say were the main differences between the two bands?

++ As Juniper you were based in DC, and it seems there was a very cool scene of indiepop bands there around that time (mid 90s). Did you feel part of the scene? Where were the places were the indie kids would hang out? Any favourite bands then?

Hmmm. I’m digging deep here to try to get this straight for you. I’m going to tie these next few questions together so I can paint a better picture.

I’d been living in Richmond, VA with a friend of mine named Buddy Apostolis, (RIP.) This was in 1995, I think. I couldn’t make my rent so I had to move to Virginia Beach for a month or two. I’d met a band from VA Beach at a show in Richmond, (this is horrible, but I seriously cannot remember their name.) Anyway, I looked them up when I landed in Virginia Beach and went to one of their shows. They happened to be opening for a band from DC called The Ropers. The Ropers guitarist was Mike Hammel (Mondo Crescendo, Vexers,) so that’s how I met him. About a month or so later I moved to DC to kick it with Mike.

I got a job at a coffee shop and that’s where I met Douglas Armour (Juniper, Mondo Crescendo.) Doug was really good friends with a kid named Brian DeGraw, (Cranium, Gang Gang Dance,) and Brian is Scott DeGraw’s (Juniper) brother. Doug and I decided to start a band, him on drums, me on guitar — so we needed a bassist. I think we made a flyer…. one way or another Doug got Scotty into the fold. The three of us formed Juniper. This was all in 1995, I think.

I wasn’t from DC and from the second I stepped foot into that town, I didn’t find it very welcoming. People have deified that city and that time-frame like there was some kind of miraculous community or movement going on…. I don’t know where they get that from. The DC I knew wasn’t anything like that. I came from a punk & garage rock background and I was new to the idea of “indie music,” and new to that town. People seemed to take themselves way too seriously from my point of view, and there was a lot of shit-talking and big egos. I felt like I really didn’t fit in, even though, I think at least musically I probably should have. I was just coming from a different place and it felt like the whole town knew it. Juniper put out a couple of records, played some crazy shows – but none of that made me feel even a little bit more comfortable there.

Someone had been slashing the tires on the Juniper tour van while it was parked on the street in front of a house we lived in on Irving Street in the N.W. Every time I’d come out and see the fucking tires were slashed again, I’d nearly blow a fuse. I had to take a bus to the metro and then the metro to a tire store in the South East. Then I’d have to buy a tire, roll it back to the metro, roll it onto the bus and then roll it all the way fucking home. This seemed to amuse my neighbor, who was that dude from Circus Lupus and my roommates, one of which was in Slant 6, but I certainly wasn’t fucking amused. That shit happened three or four times before I started making threats. I think a lot of those passive aggressive kids started to think I was a loose cannon. But whatever — the petty vandalism stopped.

So people want to talk about the “DC Indie Scene.” It was not exactly what I would call an open-arms welcome. The last straw was when MUNCH Records called us up and asked us to make a video for the Juniper single “Making Gerard Smile.” Doug, Scotty, Mike, our good friend/roadie Nathan, (RIP) and I were setting off some fireworks in the alley behind our house as a part of the video shoot, and my own roommates threatened to call the cops on us. I thought, “What a bunch of fucking Nazis.” That was it for pretty much it for me and “the DC scene.” I started making plans to move the band and anyone cool who wanted to come along for the ride to San Francisco.

As far as good DC bands: The Ropers, Cranium, Crom-Tec. the Make Up. I’m at a loss for anything else. Mike Hammel was involved in the DC indie scene when I met him, so he can fill you in on more of those kinds of bands.

As for how Juniper became the Mondo Crescendo — Juniper never really “broke up,” we just sort of morphed into the MC once we landed in San Francisco. The music took on a bit more of a garage tone, which seemed to reflect my own personal musical past and the experiences I had with the DC scene. The epic move out west and the passing of a rough year or so had a grittier result on my style at that time. The shimmery, dream-noise sound that Juniper inhabited slipped into a place and a vibe where I’d once wanted to be, but had somehow grown out of. Scott decided he didn’t want to stay in San Fran after a few months, so he left the band.  Mike Hammel just sort of moved into the bass role because a.) he could do it, and b.) he was bandless since the Ropers broke up right before we left DC. Doug, Mike and I changed our name to the Mondo Crescendo and released some records. I think the main difference between the two bands at that point was that Juniper was this childlike expression of the desire for unity, and the Mondo Crescendo was the beginning of the realization that unity is an illusion.

++ Where does the name The Mondo Crescendo comes from?

I believe Doug came up with that. It means, “the world of increasing volume.”

++ And it’s when you move to Los Angeles that you become The Mondo Crescendo right? Which city did you like better? And why the move?

We became the Mondo Crescendo after moving to SF and with the departure of Scotty. We started touring the West Coast as much as possible and met the Furry Things, a band from Texas living in LA. Then we met Tristeza at a party in Santa Barbara and formed a pretty tight bond with them. Jimmy (Jims) Lehner, Tristeza’s drummer, is one of my nearest and dearest friends to this day. He’s credited in the “thanks” section on a handful of Mondo Crescendo releases. In fact, I named the MC EP “Get Faded,” after what Jimmy used to say about getting fucked up. He’d say “Man, let’s get faded.”

Tristeza were based in San Diego, which is closer to LA than SF and while San Fransisco was beautiful, it was so expensive that we began to feel a bit trapped by it. We had made some good friends there, but the cost of living kept us from being able to tour as much as we’d wanted to. With the help of Ken Gibson, (Furry Things, 8 Frozen Modules,) we packed up our shit and headed down to LA. Doug brought his future wife, Lisa, and the four of us blazed. We might have brought a friend named Joe Bay with us, I can’t remember. We found a couple of houses in Echo Park. Mike and I moved into a place, and Doug and Lisa moved into a place a few blocks away. We found an old beauty salon right down the street from our houses and turned it into a recording studio called “Last Time Around,” named after a Del-Vettes song. Even with paying for three separate places, it was still less expensive than SF, if you can believe that. This was before Echo Park was a hip neighborhood, so rent was dirt cheap and packs of wild dogs roamed the streets.

++ What aboug gigging? Did The Mondo Crescendo gig a lot?

Oh yes. Every band I’ve ever been in gigged like a mother fucker. I might be a lot of things, but no one could ever say I wasn’t a hard worker.

++ You released many records with Blackbean and Placenta Tape Club. How did you end up in that label and how was your relationship with them?

Roque, I honestly can’t remember how I met Mike Landucci from BBPTC. It might have been at a show, but seriously, I don’t fucking know. My LA years were chocked full of drugs and booze. It was a weird town and a weird time. It seemed like drugs were just fucking throwing themselves at me — at all of us — and I mean, free, too. Now I don’t want to sound like a cautionary tale or on the other side of that, like I’m advocating anything or any life style, because I’m not. I’m just saying that there are times in my life that I remember like it was a dream, full of gaps and blended together like they happened to someone else – and then there are other times in my life that I simply can’t remember at all. Meeting Mike Landucci falls into the latter category. It’d probably be best if you asked him.

As for our relationship with Mike – it was overall good. We may have had our moments, but Mike and his family were awesome people. He was always ready to entertain my crazy cover-art ideas and whatever else I wanted. He took us out to dinner. I think he even did my laundry once or twice. He was a family man, a gardener, a great father, a good dude.

++ The album was released in  Japan, right? Any anecdotes about that?

Ken Gibson (Furry Things, 8-Frozen Modules) did the remix of TV Screen for the Japanese release. That was too cool of him!

++ Before talking any particular release I wanted to ask you the gentle distortion but distortion nonetheless you made with The Mondo Crescendo, it was such great fuzzy pop! A year ago so many bands were doing the same and living the hype. Who influenced you and what kind of sound you were looking for at the start?

When we moved to San Francisco, I went shopping for guitar pedals at this killer vintage equipment shop and found a Super Fuzz pedal that “allegedly” belonged to Jimmy Hendrix. After plugging that thing up, I just wanted to use it on everything. So, I guess that’s part of what influenced the sound. I’d also been listening to a lot of super-heavy 1960’s R & B Psych / Northern Soul and Garage from bands like Les Fleur Des Les, The Fox, John’s Children, Shadows of the Knight and so on. There’s no way that stuff wasn’t rubbing off on me in a big way.

++ The Get Faded EP was released on CD by Blackbean and Placenta but there’s also a vinyl version released by Dial Records. Never heard about them. Care to tell me a bit about this label?

Sure. ( ) Dial Records was the brain child of our dear friend and mutual DC escapee, Mike Donovan. He started it so that he could self-release his own SF based band, The Del-Velum with Mike Wiley (who took the cover photos for Get Faded,) and Rick from Thee Imaginary Boys. I’m not sure if they released anything after Get Faded, though.

++ “A Boy and his Itch” is one of the first singles I ever bought from eBay, I have some sort of special appreciation to it. And on top it is a terrific song. I have to ask, is this song based in a real story?

I wrote that song about Rex from the Summer Hits. We had a weird, on-again, off-again friendship that culminated in him smoking crack out of a toilet paper tube while I was having my 22 or 23 birthday party dinner. It really bummed me out. “Four Hits to set aside. He’s only in it for the ride.”

++ One of my favourite songs of yours is of course the single “California Sun”, a perfect rush of perfect pop. I guess you got inspired by San Francisco? What’s the story behind the song?

Although “California Sun” was released while we were living in San Francisco, I’d begun writing that while we were still living in DC and trying to get the hell out of there. It was my day-dream that people would be nicer, freer and more relaxed in California than they were in DC. I was just longing for happier times and more of a connection with the earth. “I’ve not been down with anyone, cause there’s no one here I want to know. I’m bored and tired with everyone, so I guess it’s time that I should go.”

++ And talking about inspiration, how did the creative process work  the band?

I think it all unfolded pretty organically. We all lived together in San Francisco, so I’d pick up my guitar and start writing something. Then Doug and Mike would catch wind of it and we’d take it from there. I’d do a lot of writing in my bedroom, we practiced in Doug’s room, and had a recording studio in the garage. It was a self-contained thing – just free flowing.

++ And what would be your favourite Mondo Crescendo song?

Like most of my bands – I’d have to say many of my absolute favorites never made it to vinyl for one reason or another. I guess I’d pick “On The Beach,” which is, I believe, the b-side to “California Sun,” or maybe, “Check it on Out,” (off of the YN&VWI release,) because it’s so cheeky.

++ What about the album “Young, Naked & Very With It”. What does that title mean? 🙂 And how do you think it has aged?

That was a caption out of a 1970’s nudest magazine that Doug found and brought home. We just thought it was the funniest thing ever. I think we ended up using the actual photo that accompanied the quote as the cover art to the “Free/Italia! Italia!” CD single that BBPTC released in advance of the album. It was this hilarious looking dude with a mustache and some long-haired blonde chick, buck-naked, skipping through a field holding balloons. Like, “Yay! Being naked is greeeeeeat! We have balloons!” It was just so preposterous that we had to use it.

As for how the album aged, is it horrible to admit I haven’t listened to it in years? Haha.

++ So what happened? Why did you call it a day?

I don’t really know. There were probably a million reasons. Under a close microscope, I’m sure it was petty- fighting, drugs, whatever — but what I really think? I think that band and that time had run it’s course and it was time for all of us to move on and do something else. Life is an organic thing– it’s got to keep going, doing new things, changing, evolving, devolving, dying off and springing back up in a new way. As people, we all needed to take our own separate paths. I know I did.

++ Looking back in time, what were the best moments of being in The Mondo Crescendo?

The friendships. The fusion of like minds. Traveling with your partners without the confines of society’s rules and boundaries. That and making people dance.

++ And now you are in Philadelphia with the Vexers right? So here’s the most important question:  Jenni, do you have any tips for moving coast to coast? 😉

As I mentioned earlier, the Vexers ran their course as well and ended in 2004ish. I’m in Nashville as of now and next month I’ll be moving again — this time out of the country with no plans to return. I’ve been called a “perpetual transient,” and I’ve got to say, it looks to me like that’s a pretty decent assessment. How do I move? I pick a new place. I make up my mind to go no matter what. I save as much money as I can in whatever time-frame I’ve given myself, and I sell off everything I own that can’t be taken with me. And then I just go.

++ Thanks so much Jenny! Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks, Roque. It’s been a pleasure.

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Listen
The Mondo Crescendo – On the Beach

Thanks so much to Adam Dennis for the interview! Also I would like to thanks my friend Jessel that got me in touch with him. The Jordans are a great Australian band that have released two albums so far and many songs on compilations all over the world. Adam has also been involved in “ad”, “The Sugargliders”, “Captain Cocoa” and “The Steinbecks”, so you can tell the quality of his songs. So if you haven’t listened some of his fab music, maybe this is a good time to do so!

++ Hi Adam! Thanks so much for being up for the interview. I would like to start by the first song I’ve ever listened by you, “Mystified”. I still play it often and I think there’s something ‘mystifying’ about it actually. I was wondering if you could tell me the story behind this one song?

The lyrics were trying to capture several moods in one song. “Let’s run away” reflects that persistent urge to go somewhere else, experience something new and escape from today’s responsibilities. The song notes that everyone wants to change the world – and we do. Not necessarily for the better, just to suit ourselves. The thing is that the world is huge and troublesome, and it never does what we ask. Towards the end the lyrics ask “when you’re thrown out of the nest do you learn to fly or fall?”; I’m talking here about my own ability to quickly respond to challenges and land on my feet. That’s something I seem to face all the time. Ultimately the song proclaims that I’m mystified about life in general … but I have some values that will see me through. Ultimately it’s a love song, and a promise to do the right thing by someone even though I know I’ll never understand how the world works.

++So how did The Jordans came about? Who were The Jordans? It started as a three-piece band, right?

I actually can’t remember if the three-piece lineup came at the start. There’s every chance that I conceived of The Jordans first, and then later convinced a couple of musician friends to record something with me and play some shows. One of the drivers for presenting music as a band is that the music I write is more than just a guitar and a voice, it’s band music with drums and bass and all. I’m also a team player, and I thought that I’d like to have different lineups from time to time. Also, it’s not as if I’m a handsome guy with nice hair, so I’m probably best suited to presenting myself as part of a group, and make sure the other guys are better-looking!

++ And which “Jordan” did you pay tribute with the name? Not Michael Jordan, right?

Ha, no, paying tribute to a sports star would be a highly unlikely thing for me to do; especially an American one. No, I named the band after Louis Jordan, the great innovator, entertainer, songwriter and performer of the first half of the 20th century. The appeal of his music is enduring, and he could be incredibly funny but also touching. All of that is something to emulate – I believe music has a role in connecting with people and being uplifting, and Louis Jordan epitomised that.

++ Also on your biography it says you weren’t good but played and enjoyed two or three gigs. What do you remember of these gigs?

At the time I felt a great ownership of the music, and my original bandmates – Anton and Andy – were participating to help me out rather than through a deep commitment to the band or the music. They were – and are – good guys, but it wasn’t seriously their thing. Having only a few gigs – and not a lot of rehearsal – to bring it together meant that it felt rough and uncertain. I couldn’t relax into the performance knowing the rest of the music would look after itself. The feel of the band was fun though, and we enjoyed being silly. I remember doing one song – “Soul To Sea” – where I played and sang, and I had Andy play a solo on the recorder. I’m sure that Andy had never played recorder before, so I always ended up with a totally random solo, and everyone in the audience would laugh, as would we. I’ve never been one for playing covers in my own work, but I do recall that we did a Housemartins cover. My voice isn’t as high as Paul Heaton’s, but I muddled through. People responded well but I knew that this wasn’t the time or the lineup to continue with. I let it lapse and moved on.

++ But then you kept this name for your solo stuff. Why did you make that decision? You had already did some stuff just under AD. I remember that elusive 7″ I can never get on eBay for example. Why not use AD again?

I think of The Jordans as a separate entity from me. Even though I do spend a lot of time as a solo Jordan, I see the band’s music as having a flavour that transcends me and is different from other music that I think of as my solo material. Lots of people have called me “a.d.” for years, so it’s just one of my names. One of the reasons I haven’t released more music as “AD” is that when I write my name I don’t use upper-case anymore. It’s always “a.d.” … perhaps this is a conscious effort to tame my ego.

++ You usually recorded on a 4-track. I was wondering what advantages or disadvantages you had by doing so?

Yes, I bought that TASCAM 4-track for $850 back in 1982. I was very attached to it. In the first couple of years I would write songs and record my vocals again and again until they were bearable. Some songs I would do 100 takes on. Those songs never really saw the light of day because back in those days my singing was terrible. But those repeated takes helped me learn about singing, and eventually I could sing without being overly self-critical. As time went on, I started to get better and better results out of the four-track. I would record three tracks and carefully bounce those down onto the fourth track, then record three more. Six tracks can give good results if you’re really careful … and if you’re using a drum machine. I have come to believe that working within limitations encourages good art. There’s a painter in Melbourne who did a series where she confined herself to crimson paint on a black background. Sounds trashy, but she found ways to create beauty and meaning within that constraint. Similarly, limiting songwriting to what could be created on four tracks was a powerful inspiration for me. I listen to “Katydid” now and I’m amazed that those songs were produced from such a limited system – it’s not lo-fi at all.

++ I’m always impressed with Australian bands that tend to sound a bit like the great 80s janglepop from UK. Maybe it was just pure coincidence, but what were your influences?

As a teenager I started with Pink Floyd and Aussie band Skyhooks. The ‘Hooks were a rock band that made great pop music, referencing Australian places and themes. Then, after dabbling with early punk, I moved on to Talking Heads and Midnight Oil. I loved the energy of the Heads on ’77 and More Songs About Buildings and Food. The Oils were something else, however. Their performances just blew me away, they captured something that gripped my soul with its power. Again, they talked about Australian places and culture. Next it was ska – The Specials, The Selecter, Madness. I was in a ska band for a while. Then Captain Cocoa approached me to replace their trumpet player, and I fell under the spell of indiepop. It would be fair to say that the local indiepop kids directly influenced me, so the UK influence was second-hand. I did end up with a good collection of albums from the Sarah catalogue, and I always liked Edwyn Collins, but that came after I found the elements of indiepop that worked for me. So … it wasn’t quite coincidence, but janglepop wasn’t a direct influence on my sound at the time.

++ And how did you love Melbourne? What were your favourite bands back then? Do you think there was nice scene happening in the early nineties there?

I loved Melbourne in the 80’s. I saw lots of bands for all of that decade. Early on, we’d go to the Jump Club and see The Models or Do-Re-Mi. There was such an experimental element around at the time. It was great, but a lot of the time it was a bit intellectual for me. Later I was into ska because the local ska bands were great fun. The energy, that feeling of being compelled to dance, was heady stuff for me. When I fell in with Captain Cocoa and The Sugargliders I was exposed to a bunch of great little bands that often came and went in the space of a few months, and I enjoyed this sometimes-fragile music that was often compellingly confessional. The late 80’s and early 90’s were an especially good time for new bands and new sounds. It felt like it would never end.

++ That first The Jordans release was a tape on the Red Roses For Me fanzine. How did Steve Genge heard from you guys? I heard The Sugargliders had to do with it?

This is taxing my memory a bit. I had a track on a Mind The Gap compilation, I think Steve got in touch after that. I’m sure I have a copy of that tape around here somewhere. I got some studio time with Anton and Andy, thought we would do a high-quality release for RR4Me. Recorded four or five songs, but the mixes were terrible. I swear they were sped-up. Ultimately only one track on the tape was of the band, the rest were my 4-track recordings, as they were much better than the studio-quality tracks. Ironic. Early in the 2K’s Steve Genge got back in touch and asked for a Jordans track to put on a compilation CD he was releasing. It was lovely to renew that connection a decade later.

++ Talking of which, you produced lots of their stuff and well, later you were part of The Steinbecks. I’ll try to stick to The Jordans on this interview, but I wanted to ask how did you enjoy producing The Sugargliders and how did you knew them?

The Sugargliders supported Captain Cocoa at the Punters Club one night. Josh Meadows approached me because he’d heard that I had a 4-track and knew how to use it. Josh was maybe 19, Joel was 16 at the time. They started coming around to my flat, and ultimately we recorded a lovely little tape entitled Crime & Punishment (Jumping Someone Else’s Bandwagon). There were some gorgeous songs on there, some evocative lyrics. This was before Josh played guitar. I really wanted to be a part of what they were doing because I knew these guys would evolve into something interesting. I felt like ‘other’ member of The Sugargliders as I was involved in every recording session but one, and I was their live sound mixer as well. At most gigs I’d mix their set, then get up on stage for the last couple of songs and add trumpet or another guitar and vocals. The scariest but most satisfying night was their final show at The Club (formerly the Jump Club) in 1993, I guess it was. They played material from before the Sarah releases, right up to the last singles they’d put out. All the lineups were there, but of course it was Josh and Joel who were the core, the heart and soul of the band. By the time of that show we’d already started recording the first Steinbecks album. It was far more collegiate. I still listen to that album and hear something special. I wasn’t a member of Steinbecks Mark II, but we’ve stayed in touch and I’ve played trumpet bits on a few of their albums. They’re recording a new album right now – as am I – and Josh and I meet up at the railway station in Melbourne to chat and share work-in-progress songs. We give each other very honest and constructive feedback; it’s a great relationship to have and of course it’s lasted a long, long time now.

++ Anyhow, let me get back on track. Some years later you released your first album, “Katydid”. I believe it was 1997, and the tape was released in 1991. Before asking you about the album, I wanted to ask, what happened with The Jordans during those 6 years? I’m pretty sure you were writing songs!

Through that part of the 90’s I was involved with the Sugargliders then the Steinbecks … and was in a ska/rockabilly band as well. Sometimes I’d be playing or rehearsing four or five nights a week. I was also heavily involved in my day job, too. That left only limited time for The Jordans. But yes, I was writing and recording all that time. In a sense it was a brilliant opportunity to work slowly and really refine my music.

++ So alright, Sonorama Records listens an 8 track demo and decides to release you. Did you send him that demo? And how important was this label for you? Were there any other offers?

Huh, that cassette was called “eight”. Lower-case again! And it wasn’t a demo, it was something I put together as much for my new love (now my wife) as much for Dan at Sonorama. Dan approached me with the idea of putting out a single, and when he got the cassette he couldn’t pick two songs from it. He suggested that if we added a few songs it’d be an album. When he asked how that sounded as an idea, I was so excited. It felt like a new lease of life, a recognition that The Jordans was something far bigger than my spare bedroom. At around the same time Josh and Joel had re-started The Steinbecks with a new lineup, and I welcomed an opportunity that took my focus away from feeling left out of their new work. Sonorama was a mighty little label because Dan was a true enthusiast. He wanted to do the album properly, as did I. I shelled out for serious mixing time to get the best out of my recordings, and Dan reciprocated by paying for a yellow CD case to match the artwork, and a proper booklet inside the case. I liked the whole package of that CD, it was very satisfying.

++ Did you name the album because of the insect called katydid by the way?

The lead song is “katydid”, which is mixes a pun on the Susan Coolidge book “what katy did”, and the name of the insect. When I took the cover shots, I included a cheap plastic cicada-lookalike insect because I didn’t have a clue what an actual katydid looked like.

++ After this album you got Shane Hill to work with you and start recording on a 16 track studio. How did these changes affected your traditional methods and the sound of The Jordans? Was it easy to adapt?

Shane and I go back a long, long way. Shane was the lighting guy for my first band when I was 16. He was cooler than most of the guys in the band. Later we formed our own band, and he was the singer. I remember he and I sneaking into the big music shop in Melbourne with a huge sheet of paper, taking a Stratocaster off the rack and tracing around it. Shane then made an incredible Strat copy out of marine ply – the guitar weighed almost nothing and had a really distinctive sound. After a few years Shane went and played other music and eventually got involved in other things. We stayed in touch, and I asked him to join me in creating the 16-track studio and work on some recordings. That was in 1999, which was also the year I got married. Shane was my best man. The learning curve on the new studio was steep. It shouldn’t have been, it’s not like it was that technical, but it took a lot of work to get good sounds out of it. Probably the biggest difficulty was that our ears and tastes had matured, and we now expected so much more of ourselves. My songwriting had changed too and now reflected some of my earlier influences, especially in the sense of being more in touch with my country and its landscape.

++ Under that new way of working you recorded and released your second album Hallelujah Mine. This was released in 2001. Looking back to your back catalogue that reaches 10 years then. How do you think your songwriting and recording had matured by now?

I had undergone a lot of changes in my life. A long-term relationship had ended, a new one had started. I’d been forced to take a long look at myself, got counselling to help deal with depression, got married. My songwriting became a lot more internal, more about self and feelings than it had previously been. Once we got the studio under control we found that the sounds we captured best were voice and acoustic guitar. I had always been an acoustic player, but recorded and performed with electric. The time that passed between the first and second Jordans albums marked a move to acoustic as my principal instrument, which then flavoured the songs differently. As a result the two albums sound very different at first listen … although some of that difference is also because we used a real drummer instead of a machine!

++ This is when you relocated to the country, right? Where exactly? And what do you prefer, country life or city life?

Yes, we moved to the country at the end of ’99. We’re on five acres in the Strathbogie Ranges, central Victoria. Our house is about 600 metres above sea level, so the air is thinner but the weather is great. Often in winter we’re above the cloudline, which gives us this gorgeous winter sun. I still spend a lot of time in the city, but I couldn’t live there now. Aside from anything else, being in the country means being able to play the drums any time I like!

++ From the stuff you’ve released so far, what would you say was your favourite song of yours and why?

That’s an impossible question for any songwriter to answer, I think. I have different favourites every day of the week. However, there’s a song on Hallelujah Mine called “Love Comes To Ground” that I’ve recorded again on F-35, so I must be fond of it. When I wrote that song I was convinced it was the best thing I’d ever written. I went to the building my wife worked in and waited outside with my guitar case so I could play her the song. The security guard got all aggressive, so that when she emerged she found me in the middle of an argument. We sat down a few doors away and I played her the song. It’s the most excited I’ve ever been about a newly-hatched song. After the album was released though, I found myself performing it solo in a quite different way and I loved that too, so I had to put it on the new album. Another song I’m fond of is one you might not have heard, called “When I Get a Job”. It was recorded in 1997, and when I mixed it I noted that it went for exactly two minutes. A couple of days later Bart Miaow turned up at my door asking if I had a song I wanted to contribute for a Japanese compilation single. He said it should be short because they were going to put four songs on the 7″ … “about two minutes”, he said the song should be. Weird coincidence. It’s an odd little song, very upbeat but with a slightly dark heart to the lyrics. There’s a Shakespeare reference in the lyric that I like, although no-one’s ever commented on it. The compilation was called A Melbourne Holiday, and it came out on translucent blue vinyl from Clover Records. Quite the collector’s item.

++ I see on your site that there are two CDs slated to be released in 2011: “Small Things” and “F-35”. Care to tell me a bit about each of them?

F-35 is a very unusual piece of work for me. Late last year I was frustrated that I’d been busy and unable to finish recording the next Jordans album, “Small Things @ LightSpeed”. I felt a bit stifled and blocked. It struck me that I was coming up to 35 years of owning my acoustic guitar, a Fender F-35 Dreadnought manufactured in 1976. I’ve written so many songs on that guitar, and decided that I’d do a kind of tribute album to it. Even more unusual, I decided to put it out under my own name, so it’ll have “Adam Dennis” on the cover. That feels strange to me, but good. I’ve got to remix two songs and then it’s done. It’ll be a fairly limited release I think, probably 200 physical CDs, although I hope it’ll be available for purchase on iTunes. It’s about a month from release. When I started it I decided to limit my options, so there’s only three mics on the drums, only one on the acoustic. It’s as plain as I could stand it to be, and I purposely tried to leave mistakes intact. At the same time, I know I have to live with it forever, so I want it to sound as good as I can … it’s quite a challenge to meet both those requirements, but I’m nearly there. The vocal performances are pretty good, and I’m pleased to say that I played every note myself. Shane came up and did some engineering at a critical point in the process, which was a bit of a circuit-breaker and helped me clarify what I was trying to do. I’m looking forward to finishing the album and getting it out the door.

“Small Things @ LightSpeed” is the next Jordans album, although the name on the cover will be The Jordans Play. The name change is to help me keep some visibility on the Internet. When you google The Jordans, you get a lot of references to a popular sports show, then to a Formula One team, and finally you find links to me. I figure that the new name will have fewer competitors in the search space. The album, meanwhile, sounds very different to F-35. It also sounds very different to the previous Jordans albums. Like Hallelujah Mine, it’s taken a tremendously long time to record. I put the drum tracks down in early 2009. I have this sneaking suspicion that I’ll find I can’t stand the playing on a couple of songs and have to redo them from scratch … but I still want to see the project completed this year. My solo album has a personal and family focus to it, but the Jordans album tends to look much further afield. There’s even a song about the world ending, with all of us flying to Venus. Hmm, that sounds a lot stranger than it really is.

++ Going a bit back in time, I know you from the Airpop compilations on Apricot Records. I just read and found funny that some people thought you were Swedish. How did this confusion came about? Was that the strangest thing that has happened to you as The Jordans?

The Apricot boys were lovely, asking me to be involved in two Airpop compilations. I’m not convinced we were a good match at all, but it was nice to be there. I think the Swedish thing came around because Airpop was a German thing, and no-one expected that an Australian band might be involved. Also I think I enunciate my lyrics fairly clearly, which a lot of Swedish popsters also seem to do. The strangest thing to happen to me in the Jordans context was when I did a phone interview with a street mag, and when my wife got hold of a copy she was saying “what the hell were you talking about?” I read the article, and in response to the question “how long do you think you guys will continue to work together?”, I was quoted as saying “we’ll be together until chickens fall from the sky!” It’s a great quote, but I didn’t say it. It still makes me laugh.

++ Let’s wrap it here. I was just told by Bart from The Cat’s Miaow that the best food originally from Australia are Tim-Tams. Do you agree? Or would you recommend me something else?

A: Bart is correct, however Tim-Tams have now extended their range to include lots of variations. I especially love dark chocolate ones with a caramel centre. When The Steinbecks were recording their first album, we’d be in the studio late at night drinking coffee and eating Tim-Tams. The standard challenge is to bite off the diagonally opposite corners of the biscuit, then dip one corner into the coffee and suck on the other corner, using the biscuit as a straw. You have to do this fast because the coffee dissolves the biscuit into a soggy mess in your hand, so you have to suck hard then shove the Tim-Tam into your mouth as soon as you taste coffee. When you get it right, it’s great. But when you get the timing wrong it’s a disaster. A bit like being in a band, really.

++ Thanks again Adam, anything else you’d like to add?

Just keep your eye on http://adamdennis.info and http://thejordans.com.au for news of my forthcoming releases. I really want people to hear this material … I guess that’s all a songwriter really wants, isn’t it?

Thanks to you for a well-researched interview. It’s always a pleasure to talk to someone who really thinks about their work.

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Listen
The Jordans – Mystified

This interview dates March 27th, 2007. I just found it after looking through my email archive from those days and thought it might be of interest to publish it again as the first time it was published it was all translated in Spanish for my old blog Mira El Péndulo. Now that I read it, I feel my questions are quite generic and not that ingenious, but thankfully Fabien’s answers are great, so you can enjoy that. Anorak Records is still going and not so long ago they released a compilation by the great Nixon. So check it out here. Also you can read a more recent interview with Fabien about his band Caramel here.

++ How does Anorak Records comes to life? What were the main motivations to start the label?

Anorak Records was born in 1992. I can’t remember the month, even not the day, but I created the label this year of 1992 for sure. In fact, I had the project in my mind since a long time ago. But, I didn’t know how to do it at this time. As you know, at this time, there were a lot of indie pop labels : Sarah Records, Bus Stop, Summershine, Heaven, Marsh Marigold, Harriet, Blam a Bit, Sunday, Siesta, Elefant (the list is infinite…)… And since 1986, it was a kind of rebirth for the indie pop scene even if it didn’t really stop. In the beginning of the 90’s, there were a lot of people very active in France. There were those amazing fanzines (Happy, Bonjour Chez Vous n°6, Fairy Tales, Chimères – the best one, and the best fanzine I’ve ever read, it was done by a friend of mine named Frédéric Schneider -, Soda for Girls, Guiding Stars, Salade de Fruits, Heaven is Blue, and many many more). There were also a lot of indie pop labels and mail orders created by indie pop fans. So, I wanted to contribute too the best as I could to this. Since 1986, I’d been doing some fanzines or contributed to other zines and I thought that I should create my own label. Sarah Records (and just before Sha-la-la also ran by Matt and Clare) were the “activators” for me. Reading their messages in all those magnificent records made me think it was possible to start a label even if we don’t have money. This was determining. The processes was also political. A lot of bands didn’t have the chance to make records because they didn’t suit to the commercial criterion. Sarah Records proved that we can make records in an honest way, sell them at a low price and promote bands without being involved and compromised with the record industry. Because the record industry only make profits and business at the bands expense. We wanted to destroy this system, stay independent, make records only for the bands and promote them honestly. A kind of socialist system, in fact. I had no faith in the music industry, and I still don’t have. I still believe there’s something to do for all those bands. And that were my first motivations. 15 years later, I still believe in it. I’m right, am I not ???

++ Tell us a bit about all of your releases? What can we expect in the near future?
The first release of Anorak Records was a compilation tape. It was out in the middle of 1992. A lot of bands (27) contributed to it. There were french bands (Meek, Katerine, The Daffodils, Les Chaplinn’s, Monsieur de Foursaings, The Through Comers…), British bands (The Almanacs, Bouquet, The Music Seen, White Town, The Gravy Train, The Sedgwicks, Confetti, The Fat Tulips, Antiseptic Beauty, Saint Christopher, The Lovelies, The Kensingtons…), japanese bands (The Penelopes, Budgie Jacket) and an American band (Our American Cousins). It was a “big success”. All the copies (500) were sold in less than six months. Then, I released another tape. It was from the great Japanese band Budgie Jacket. After that, was out the first 7″ from the english band The Almanacs. The second 7″ was from the french band Meek. Then, in 1994, I had no more money as I loose my job. I was unemployed for a few years so I didn’t have any money to release anything. So Anorak Records was put in a “sleep” for a few years. It was very hard for me as I wanted to release many bands (especially two great french band named Autumn Sky and Doggy…). A Vicarage Garden (the great Heaven Records’ band) 7″ was also planned but I couldn’t release it. Fortunately, some friends of mine from the french label Cavalcade finally putted out. Anyway, Anorak Records was dying but, in the beginning of the 2000 years, my friend Guillaume (from Doggy) who was also playing guitar with me in Caramel, asked me if he could release a CD through Anorak Records and rebirth the label. I sad “Yes !”. And he’s now the “boss”. And I try to help him the best as I can. So, he released the Doggy CD, a CD compilation named “Handmade” with six indie pop bands from our town Limoges. Just before last Christmas, we released a CD from the wonderful Norwegian solo project from Ragnhild : Soda Fountain Rag. In the beginning of this year, there was the CD from the American band named En Français. This month, there will be the CD from Snow Coloured Kid. This is the band from a popkid from Finland named Anssi. We’re very excited about it cos’ it’s really fantastic. And there will be also out very soon a CD from an English band named The French Defence. It’s wonderful. It could be a sort of meeting between Belle and Sebastian and Trembling Blue Stars. After that, we don’t know what the future will be for Anorak Records.

++ What do you think about the indiepop scene in France? Any bands you will like to recommend us?

At the moment, there’s not a so called indie pop scene in France. Almost nothing is happening here. It seems that here no one cares for indie pop. There are only a few people still playing this kind of music and “fighting for the cause”. Anyway, I can recommend the bands from my town Limoges : Doggy, Skittle Alley, Dead TV Star, Pornboy, Start !, Colossal Youth, and a few other bands : Tender Forever, Fandor, Watoo Watoo (all from Bordeaux), Aujourd’hui Madame (from Paris), Anne Bacheley (from Poitiers), most of the bands from the fabulous french label Herzfeld (Buggy – they’re fantastic -, Original Folks, Loyola…) and Electrophönvintage. Oh, there’s also the great label Plastic Pancake. And I can also recommend older french bands frome the 90’s like Des Garçons Ordinaires, les Poissons Solubles, les Mistons, Stephen’s Library, The Non Stop Kazoo Organisation or Les Mollies.

++ We all know that you write also the Anorak City fanzine which I have had the great chance to read (I really recommend it if you understand French!) and I also know that you are writing the third number now, what can we expect on it?

The third number from Anorak City will be out next week !!! There will be interviews from Tullycraft, Trembling Blue Stars, Peace in Our Time, Colossal Youth, Jyrki from the label Music is my Girlfriend, En Français, Soda Fountain Rag and articles about They Go Boom!! and Strawberry Story. It’ll be sold with a CD from Peace in Our Time and Colossal Youth.

++  Years ago you were on one of France’s prime indiepop bands, Caramel, who released amazing stuff on Marsh-Marigold. What are your best memories of that time? Why did Caramel broke up? And what bands did you admire at that time that influenced your sound? 🙂

Caramel was great fun. We had the chance to release records through Marsh-Marigold but also through Harriet Records and Aquavynile. The best memories ? There are so many. I can remember all those great moments we spend all together. Because, we were before of all only friends playing together. The first best memories are the concerts : the Marsh Marigold Christmas parties with all those great bands (Red Letter Day, Seashells, Die Fünf Freunde, Red Sleeping Beauty, Acid House Kings…), the Marsh-Marigold tour in France and Belgium (with Red Letter Day, Acid House Kings, Bruno Ferrari Duo and us), some “chaotic and punk”, but very funny, gigs here in France. Then, I can remember all the great people I had met at this time. Finally, I can remember the recordings from our records. Especially the last ones. Mike Innes, from They Go Boom!!, produced our last CD. He played with us on this record and then played with us on stage when we did our last concert in Hamburg, Germany. Why did the band broke up ? I think if you ask to any member from Caramel, no one will answer the same thing but here’s my answer. Denis, Isabelle and Stéphane had to move from Limoges for their jobs. Denis is now living in Sheffield in England, Stéphane is now in Toulouse in France, and Isabelle is now in Paris. Only Guillaume and me are still in Limoges. So it was difficult to exist as a band. But most of us still continued to play music. Denis played in many bands (Suzy Pepper, Megarider…). Guillaume has his solo project Doggy. And just after the end of Caramel, Guillaume and me played in a band named Corner Kick.
The bands that influenced us ? Oh, I’ll speak for myself first. My favorite band ever is The Sugargliders. They’re so perfect. ALL of their songs are amazing. And also the way they managed their “career” as a band. Doing ten 7″s and then broke up the band. That’s the Sarah spirit. Then, I should say that the bands who did influenced Caramel were bands like Talulah Gosh, Fat Tulips, Strawberry Story, The Housemartins, The Undertones, The Pastels, BMX Bandits, They Go Boom!!, The Cudgels, The Brilliant Corners, Mac Carthy… and many many more…

++ Do you have any plans to start a new band nowadays?

Since two years, I play in a band named Start !. We are five people in it. There’s Bertrand (singer) who also plays with Colossal Youth, Stéphane (guitar and singer) who also plays as Skittle Alley, Emilie (singer), Olivier (drums) and me (guitar and keyboards).

++ What do you think about this generation of indiepopsters, how different are them from the one you had the chance to live, which was, in my honest opinion, much more active and fun, do you agree?

Oh, difficult question. The indieposters are really cool now. And they’re not so different. They’re only less than before. Only the times they’re a changing. We (Anorak Records and Anorak City) receive many enthusiastic messages from people all over the world. But the past is the past and today is today. Everything is going so fast nowadays. Telling this makes me feel (and your question too ;-)) I’m like a dinosaur, but I try to adapt. In the end of the 80’s or the beginning of the 90’s, there was no internet (and it has changed our lifes). So, all the communication between indie pop fans was based on postal letters. We wrote altogether letters and the time was spending a bit slower. When we wrote to someone else we had to wait that he received the letter and then wrote back. Now, it’s going faster and I think sometimes, we loose ourselves because our brains can’t receive properly all the information. Anyway, I think you’re true, people were more active and fun. We just wanted to spare times altogether and have big fun. And we didn’t forget why we do it.

++ What will be for you the perfect indiepop community? What should change and what should stay the same? I’m quite disgusted I must say, I dont see that old craving for buying records, physical stuff. I don’t understand that idea of buying MP3, it just makes me cry!

Please don’t cry !!! (as the Sea Urchins said and sing). Oh, that’s a very difficult question too. I don’t think indiepop community could be perfect as nobody’s perfect. And this community (if it still exists) couldn’t be perfect. Anyway, I could dream of more mutual aid. But the past (as it was in 1986 or during the “Sarah years”, even if it wasn’t as perfect as we can dream – I know you dream of it – of) can’t be the same again. Anyway, I will like that people write again more fanzines (they’re very important according to me), create their own label (that’s so easy), and probably the most important that there will be more people to promote and sell the records from the labels. I mean there are great labels (especially the people from Music is My Girlfriend in Sweden or you with Plastilina and Cloudberry ;-)) but there are not so many people that believe in them and want to distribute them. In the end of the 80’s there was the Cartel that managed to distribute indie pop labels and spread all the indie pop music all over the world. They managed too to stay independent from the musical industry. If we’re enough clever, we should work altogether and stop doing things all by ourselves. That’s the only way. But it’s very hard. We have to think what can we do to still make people want to buy records and don’t buy MP3. It must be a real and complete artistic processes that includes anti-capitalism and anti-fascism. But, as you know, in the 90’s we fought for the “vinyl” and “7”” cause. Now, nobody cares about the vinyl. We may also try to adapt to the new technologies. What do you think about it too ?

++ Again, I’m so grateful to know you, somebody that really keeps indiepop alive by putting time and effort on it, I hope you never grow tired of this! And also you have a perfect pop taste. But I’m quite curious, what are your other hobbies? What does Fabien Garcia does when he is not doing anything related to indiepop?!

Thanks for your kind comments. And don’t be afraid, I will ALWAYS fight for the cause. So, it takes a good part of my life. To satisfy your curiosity, I’ll say that my first hobby is to spend time with my girlfriend (which is the best person I know). I also love to spend time with my friends, drink beers and wine, play with cats, travel when I’ve got the money to, watch films, read books, doing historic researches (I love History), militate for politics or my trade union, and work as a journalist (that’s my job). And that’s my simple life.

++ Would you like to add anything to the Spanish-speaking indiepopsters that read Mira el Pendulo? 🙂

Hola, que tal ?!

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Listen
Start -Words You’ve Never Heard

Thanks again to Johnny Wood for another interview, this time about his first band, the fantastic Episode Four. With this band he released one 12″ EP that included the classic “Strike Up Matches”. This record is one of those holy grails in indiepop as not many copies survived a flood in their storage facility. You can read here my previous interview with him about East Village. Enjoy!

++ Hi again Johnny! How are things going? How are the English classes? Have you actually learned some Chinese? 🙂

Hi … things are going well. yes i’m learning Chinese. It’s hard but I keep persevering. Actually enjoying it a lot. I have a great teacher who pushes me hard but thats ‘cos she knows I really want to learn it. And not just conversation. I’m learning to read and write the characters too.

++ Thanks again for being up for another interview. You know that Episode Four 12″ is like one of the holy grails for many indiepop collectors. What happened? I read the storage place Percival’s Belsize Park HQ was flooded and everything was damaged and lost?

Yeah a burst pipe I think.

++ Realistically, how many copies would you say were saved? This must have been a really tough moment for you guys. You were self-releasing it, right? Under Lenin And McCarthy Records?

That’s right, we had put a lot into it and then that went and happened. Almost a total disaster but fortunately some were rescued in time. How many? Couldn’t say really, they just got put anywhere out of harms way. Not many.

++ Why the name of the label by the way? Who made the logo? I think it’s great!

Yeah we always had good logos, ha ha. The name was a pun on Lennon/McCartney but also a kind of statement on the times. The early – mid eighties in the UK was still divided politically. Socialism as represented by the unions v’s capitalism represented by Thatcher’s government.

++ The part I never understood was, according to the Leamington Spa booklet, why Percival had you on a legal wrangling? What rights did he have?

That was just him wanting to keep a hold of us when we wanted away. Maybe he made it out to be more than it was. I don’t remember ever being worried by it. But I think he had this grand scheme of being a pop svengali, like Mickey Most or something, ha ha. He had us and another band called Thee Hypnotics. He saw us as being The Beatles and them The Rolling Stones. Trouble was we saw us as being Episode 4 and they saw them as being Thee Hypnotics. It wasn’t gonna work.

++ Let’s go to your beginnings, you were formed in 1983 as a garage band playing mostly covers. How do you remember those days? And what were your favourite covers you made?

I remember them as great times. So exciting for me, even though we were really small time. But the times we spent playing each other our first efforts at songs, listening to records, hanging out were wonderful really. We played stuff like 96 Tears, simple riffs. I think we did Since I Lost My Baby by The Action too. A truly fantastic record and still one of my all time faves. We probably murdered it, but murdered it in a good way. Ha ha …

++ What inspired you to be in a band? Did you have any big heroes in music?

Well, since I first read stuff about The Beatles I wanted to be in a band, but never thought I would be until Episode 4, although I did try. I just plugged away on my own listening to Simon & Garfunkel records. Then Aztec Camera’s first album blew me away. I listened to that every night and day for weeks and weeks, from the moment I woke up ’til the moment I fell asleep. I still love it.

++ And why did you named the band Episode Four?

I have no idea. It was already a band before I hooked up with them and the strange thing was, I never asked about the name. It was just Episode 4 and it was alright with me.

++ You gigged quite a bit from what I can tell. Which were your favourite gigs? Did you get to gig outside London?

Yes, we lived outside London so most of the gigs were around or in our hometown, High Wycombe. And yes, we did gig a lot. The Nags Head in Wycombe was always good. It was a quite a famous venue, on the circuit since way back in the 50’s. A lot of famous acts played there .. The Who, The Jam, Sex Pistols, blues artists. Not bad for a pub. Apart from there, there were quite a few. The Mean Fiddler in London. Lincoln, a small town a 100 miles or so away always welcomed us. But my fondest memory has got to be the Pink and Lily, where we used to rehearse. It was a small country pub, way out in the sticks, with an annex room that we played in. Someone in the pub had heard our efforts and used to lend me his guitar, which was a beautiful Gibson 335 (I think), cherry red color. A guy called Johnny. So kind of him. That kind of thing inspires you. You know, I didn’t even know him. Maybe he thought we had something and could see that to play a really good instrument like that would spur me on. Anyway, we did a gig, one of our first, in the garden of the pub. It was a lovely balmy English summer’s evening, and we made a makeshift stage around the base of a big cedar tree and played to all our mates who’d come from the town to see us.

++ Who were the bands at that time that you enjoyed the most to go see, or even play with, share the bill?

There was a venue called Friars in a neighbouring town that had some big names on. Echo & the Bunnymen were one. Aztec Camera of course. I went to a lot of their gigs. Thee Hypnotics were mates and we saw them a lot. Really exciting live band. We did a great gig with them once at a party at Spence’s house. Two bands set up in the living room! Us one end and them the other. Can’t remember who played first set … we must have tossed a coin …

++ So you met this Percival guy and offers you to release a record, that’s how the story goes, right? How did you meet him?

I have no recollection. It must have been after seeing us play. He must have come up to us and promised us the world, ha ha.

++ This record was recorded for £78 on a single day. That seems very little, but at the same time you got a very good sound. How did you manage?

You have to remember things were a lot cheaper then, but even so we thought it was a ridiculous amount, like something out of The Rutles. Maybe Maurice had done a deal with the studio .. you know, get a slice of the profits for a cheap day in the studio, ha ha. As for the sound, we kind of wrote the songs in a way that dictated what the sound would be like – to a certain extent. We were doing it ourselves. But we also relied on the engineers to help us. And a friend – George – had had some studio experience and played piano. I think we probably name-checked a few records or bands we were into to get their minds on the same lines as ours.

++ On it you included one of the best songs I’ve ever heard, honestly, “Strike Up Matches”. What was the story behind it?

Thank you … well by this time we’d been together a couple of years and had found Spence. With him things fell into place quickly. Our songs were getting better and better, we were writing stuff we knew each other would relate to. Being in a band, you get to know each other pretty well on some levels. It was political times in the UK … the miners, the unions, Thatcher. Strikes, marches, riots. It was my way of commenting. And when I played it to the others they got it straight away.

++ Oh! And why did Strike Up Matches appears as the B side of the record? The name is on the cover you know, it’s just a bit odd 🙂

Is It? Maybe we just thought all the songs deserved to be heard, so put it on the ‘B’ side. We were like that.

++ It also included three other fantastic songs. Which makes me wonder, were there any other more songs recorded by Episode Four, even if it was on demo format?

Oh yes .. we did a lot of demos, even if the songs never went anywhere. We were always interested in recording. Our great common ambition was to make an LP.
But we probably re-used the master tapes each time we used a studio.

++ What was your favourite song?

It’s got to be Strike Up Matches. Not long ago, Excellent Records director Kei gave me a tape of a Japanese band doing a version of it. Amazing. Someone covered my song … wowed.

++ I was just looking at the artwork on the Discogs page, wishing I had a copy myself haha, and I was thinking that the sleeve on it’s dark blue shade, and the guitar, it’s just so classy and elegant, just like your music. How important were your aesthetics for you guys? And I’m not only talking about artwork, I’m asking even about haircuts, because I’ve seen you had some cool ones!

I don’t think we ever discussed it. It was just the way were. We were into bands that had haircuts, so we did too. It was just a normal thing. And it was easy for me, with my curly mop – jusy wake up in the morning and hey presto! never had to worry about it, ha ha. As for the other stuff, yeah the guitars, the amps, the artwork … very important from day one.

++ So when exactly did you decide it was the moment to say let’s start anew, let’s change our name?

We’d become involved with Jeff and were hanging out more and more in London. We’d developed a lot, improved a lot, were realising that people were a little impressed. It just felt like we were taking a step forward … so a new name that maybe had a stronger significance that people might relate to ..

++ And these days, whenever one of the copies shows up on eBay and sells for 225 quid and the other for 400 quid. How do you feel about it? Do you still have a copy of your own by the way?

Yeah of course I do … a part of my life. I’d never sell the ones I have. when I see those prices I wish I had a few more.

++ One last question. As you are living in China, and having a close look, do you think they will dominate the world economically and culturally soon? I kind of look forward to it, meaning less McDonalds and more dim sum 😀

Well they got McD and KFC over here too … certainly they’ll be the wealthiest nation in a few years. Maybe the majority of people won’t be. I’m not so sure they want to dominate the world. At least not in the way western people are concerned about. Perhaps they will exert a lot of political clout, well almost certainly they will actually. Perhaps morally too. But it’s still a developing country .. there’s a lot for them to do and worry inside their own borders. Financially, the powers that be seem to be pretty smart. It’s an interesting time to be here.

++ Thanks again Johnny! Anything else you’d like to add?

Just like to say thanks for your questions … and keep up the good work with Cloudberry!

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Listen
Episode Four – Strike Up Matches

Thanks again to Mark Mortimer for being up for yet another interview. You can read the interviews about his previous bands Great Express and Space Seeds as well on the blog, and also the write up I did about Bash Out the Odd some time ago. Enjoy!

++ Hi again Mark! From what I have read, there was interest for your band from the same company that managed The Primitives and Birdland, that they even went to see you play live in Tamworth. What happened? Why didn’t they sign you?

Lazy Records!

I had quite a bit of contact with them and they were really in to what we were doing, loved the recordings we were knocking out and were showing some genuine interest – I may be wrong but I think they came to see us in London and in Tamworth and they loved that we had this indie-psychedelic-Walker Brothers vibe going on with the dual lead vocals thing.

We were enamored with both the Primitives, who came from Coventry not far from Tamworth, and Birdland and so Lazy seemed a perfect home-to-be for BOTO but it never came about.

Despite this mutual two-way respect (we were into the Primitives and Birdland of course), I don’t think they ever quite fully believed that we could make the leap from where we were to where we wanted to be & in retrospect the label was probably right….but there was some proper talk between us.

++ So yeah, when I was researching about your band I noticed there were three different versions or lineups of the band. Why was that? Why was it hard to keep the same people in the band?

I don’t think the band was any different to many groups really: there are always lots of conflicting emotions & pressures which come together…..getting the right chemistry isn’t easy and often there are are great groups around who may be miss out on being recognized or successful because of a missing 20%.

What I mean is if there is a five piece group and four of the members are right and one is wrong then that bad chemistry fifth is more than enough to stop you in your tracks and tip over your apple cart.

Getting the right line up at the right time and enjoying a little bit of luck together with a lot of hard work isn’t easy as you will know.

As regards BOTO the line up changes were always the result of one person or another not quite fitting in….in one instance we had our own five minutes of “rock & roll” violence….on the way back from playing the Bull & Gate in Kentish Town (London) our guitarist at the time Pete Woodward attacked our keyboard player John Bates on the bus which wasn’t really conducive to a harmonious vibe!!!

Most of the time it wasn’t a left hook that led to line up changes, more usually it was because someone didn’t quite have the right commitment to the cause or their girlfriend didn’t like him being away etc.

++ Also I read that you recorded videos for three songs by Bash Out the Odd. Where are those?!

Not quite true.

We filmed a very amateur promo video to try and push the band to labels in Solihull near Birmingham . It was for the tune ‘Love Walks Away’ from our first demo recordings and it was filmed free of charge for us by local college students who used us as video guinea pigs I guess.

This would have been at the time where we had lost a guitar player through one of the line up changes (I am guessing it was when Julian vanished).

You can tell because singer Mark (DeHavilland) Brindley is miming the guitar parts in the video and although he did play rhythm guitar on some songs there is no other guitarist in evidence.

During the first minute of filming the video I snapped my bass string and hadn’t got a replacement with me so you can see me laughing through most of the clip.

It was shot in a theatre in some college in Solihull on a stage and my mate Paul ‘Clem’ Clements from Manchester provided some gentle psychedelic lighting and smoke and bubbles….

The video isn’t currently anywhere online but I may put it up one day on my record label’s You Tube channel, DCTone so you never know….

++ Alright, now to the most important question, where does the name comes from?

I really despised the name with a passion and it almost led to the band halting before it started!

Not just saying this but it really wasn’t my idea at all – if I remember rightly it was Julian (Amos) our first guitarist & backing singer, who had been in the Great Express with me, who came up with the name.

It was just a collection of words. I remember someone complaining to us that it had a kind of homophobic edge to it which genuinely had never crossed my mind but that only served to piss me off even more!!

I thought it was a shocking name and I was totally embarrassed about it if honest but I was out-voted. Democracy!! Bah!

++ So Bash Out the Odd was formed immediately after Space Seeds. How different were these two bands?

Not too different at first, BOTO (as I prefer to think of us!), was the Space Seeds really.

With Martin Kelly quitting the Space Seeds, we brought in Julian on lead guitar and he shared vocals with DeHavilland and otherwise the horn section was still there though sax player Pete Clark left and we replaced him with bass trombone player Bryan Hurdley.

The only other big change was that my close friend Rob Cross quit as he moved to Liverpool to go to university- he later went on to become part of the group Mr. Ray’s Wig World (who I loved) and when my current group DC Fontana were recording in Liverpool I did hang out with him.

In fact Rob has recently done a remix of some DC Fontana stuff called ‘Sighed DC’ which will get a release somewhere soon!

But with Rob and Martin gone and Julian plus Bryan coming in that was the line up difference.

I have a gig recording from one of the very first BOTO gigs at a small pub called the Greyhound in Burntwood (not far from Tamworth) in September 1989 and it’s very close to the Space Seeds, though perhaps slightly more powerful.

At first there was very little musical difference between both groups…we still had the joint lead vocals thing going on (a sort of indie Walker Brothers), horns, catchy poppy tunes etc.

The change with the brass was interesting though as it meant we had no reeds (no saxes) which is very unusual for a section.

Therefore they had a more classical sound – it was a really interesting line up as far as a brass section goes – two trumpets and a bass trombone and no saxophones- but I loved it: more “Penny Lane” than Stax soul if you know what I mean.

Alan Hodgetts, who owned a rehearsal room in Tamworth, was still the keyboards player but he didn’t fit in chemically, eventually he left and DeHavilland’s long-standing best friend John Bates joined and brought with him samplers and the like. John had played on the Space Seeds’ recordings of ‘Switchblade Love’ & ‘Saturn In Her Eyes.’

++ The second lineup of Bash Out the Odd starts when Julian Amos leaves the band to become a private detective! That’s quite a story. Care to tell me what happened?

Sure….one Monday night I drove to his house to pick him up to drive over to Birmingham to rehearse but his dad came to the door and said he had moved to live in a different part of the country to become a private detective and seemed genuinely shocked that we weren’t aware.

He said: “didn’t he tell you?” and I said “errrrr no!” and that was that.

Julian hadn’t even bothered to let us know that he was quitting or moving which was a bit bizarre…

We advertised to replace him and a guy from Solihull called Pete Woodward came on board.

++ It’s also from this same period the song “Laughing House” which I think might be my favourite among the ones I’ve listened. What’s the story behind this song?

“Laughing House” started out just as a potential song title, just two words but ushered in a new, dirtier, rawer era for us.

I came up with the simple music – most of the song is three chords – and the lyrics were written by Mark (DeHavilland) afterwards.

It was the start of us becoming harder edged and more psychotic playing wise and the pace was fairly frenetic and it mirrored the energy of Birdland, who I mentioned earlier, were with Lazy.

Birdland’s Vincent brothers hailed from Kingsbury which is a small village on the outskirts of Tamworth, famous only for being the destination of a huge oil terminal (which I remember my teachers at school telling me meant that the Russians had a nuclear missile pointed in our direction during the Cold War) and, ironically, a nature park.

There was a period in BOTO when we were without a permanent drummer sadly and Mark’s uncle played drums with us for a short period. He had been in bands during the late 60s and early 70s and was rusty as he hadn’t played for a long time so it meant that live we were not very tight for that period.

I can remember the Vincent brothers coming to see BOTO play live in Lichfield, a tiny city close to our home town of Tamworth, and I was a bit embarrassed that they saw us duing this period when musically we were a bit rough round the edges.

Birdland had that spikey New York sound of course and I also loved a lot of the same stuff they were into, especially Television, and I had been seeking to make BOTO pacier, edgier and more cataclysmic sounding.

I wanted there to be more crash! bang! wallop! to counteract the classical edge of the no-sax brass and ‘Laughing House’ was the first foray into this bleached-out, fucked up territory which we explored with a fervour.

With a lot of my influences being 60s-orientated I was injecting a lot of 60s punk and garage vibes into the BOTO group and this really kicked in here.

Also, I simply loved the raw, ballsy vibe of Birdland and there’s no doubt that their first EP ‘Hollow Heart’ had a profound influence on the ‘Laughing House’ era BOTO.

When it came to recording ‘Laughing House’ and another tune of mine, ‘September Honey,’ I preferred to use programmed drums than Mark’s uncle so I could make it more in your face, tighter, harsher and more extreme.

The main section of both tunes were recorded with Paul Speare at the Expresso Bongo Studios in Tamworth but we had to finish both songs off at a different studio in Birmingham due to the Bongo being booked.

This meant that some of the vocals and horns were recorded at a different place and at a different time and then we added some extra baritone sax from Paul during the mix session back at the Bongo later.

It’s quite high octane stuff and though it’s a shame that the drums are programmed I still enjoy the energy and zest of the recordings – it had the oomph and edge which our previous demo had lacked.

Mark’s “La-la-la-la Laughing House” melody was perfect for what I had in mind and his obscure lyrical direction also seemed perfectly off kilter for what was a pounding tune.

++ You seem to have recorded quite a bit of songs with this band Mark. Which would you say are your favourite songs and why?

Tough one to answer as I do like most of what we recorded.

“Laughing House” had the energy and edge we sought and “Love Walks Away” from our first demo session was catchy and very personal to me lyrically during my bleak times living in a damp rat-infested bedsit in Upper Gungate, Tamworth so maybe those two?

There was quite a bit of angst among the words of “Love Walks Away” and it was the natural successor to the Space Seeds’ “Switchblade Love” which was a song that BOTO continued to play live of course.

The first demo we recorded produced four tunes, three of which I wrote and one from Julian:

“Love Walks Away” was an up-tempo brass driven stomper with guitar drones and very poppy vocals and was one of the most popular songs we played live.

“Heavenly Angel” was our indie Walker Brothers moment with sampled strings (we couldn’t afford the real thing) and mariachi trumpets in the style of Love’s “Alone Again Or” and a really poppy chorus: “Heavenly Angel, I’m flying into grace again!”

It was really hard to replicate live but gained us lots of interest actually and is a pretty song which was the first of mine which displayed a big Scott Walker and Arthur Lee influence, something I have since developed with DC Fontana.

We also recorded “Mother Sea” which had more Love influences and we did a live in the studio version of Julian’s paean to the Volkswagen Beetle car, “Bug” which included us recording DeHavilland’s own Beetle revving up outside the Expresso Bongo studio!

On the second demo we recorded “Laughing House” & another of my songs called “September Honey” which started off with moody keyboards and sampled Indian instruments and then turned into this crazy million miles an hour garage stomper.

It had a lot of Julian Cope’s two-car garage band feel and a heavy-rockin’ double kick drum pattern towards the end of the song which, for silliness we then turned into a quadruple kick drum pattern as it fades with Mark screaming “Night! Night! Night! Night! Goodnight!” like a demented maniac.

I loved it when Mark turned into this screaming leather jacket clad demon.

He also added the immortal screamed line “I’m gonna wear a black, green, pink, blue, red shirt!” to the start of the final verse which always tickles me and it’s a song that I still love to bits.

As well as the above songs we had loads of material, enough for an album. Other tunes we had included “The Rain Garden”, “The Hanging Man”, “Don’t Expect Anything From Me”, “Silent Head (Part 2)”, “Climbing Pain Palm” and “Miles High” plus we also played “Switchblade Love” & “Saturn In Her Eyes” from the Space Seeds days and also “(You Could) Change My World” from the Great Express.

++ What about gigs? I read the gigs in Kentish Town and Fulham were something. Which were your favourites and why?

We were a pretty busy gigging band and played all over England really.

The gigs in London were fun and we seemed to pick up quite a bit of interest and also it was always great being down there as it meant I could see some of my best mates like Donald Skinner as they lived down there.

I always enjoyed traveling to gigs and whereas most people hated the journeys, I loved all that side of it: for me it was part of a big adventure so when we played in London or perhaps up in north England in Scarborough I found those memorable.

++ And there was even a tape sold with recordings from that Fulham gig, do you remember how did that came about?

If I remember rightly someone recorded the gig at the back of the room inside the Greyhound at Fulham, which was a popular London venue back in the day, particularly in the mid & late 70s during the punk years.

As a kid growing up I can remember seeing adverts in the NME for people like the Stranglers, The Jam and so on playing this place so it was a real venue of note for me and it was great to gig there even though we pulled in a miniscule audience!

Usually those kind of live recordings, or even those from a mixing desk are crap but this wasn’t TOO bad considering all and it’s nice to have a fairly authentic guide to how we sounded at that time.

I’ve managed to get most of that gig digitally transferred now for posterity – we sound pretty good actually although everything is played at breakneck amphetamine tempos but what is amusing is the almost non-existent response from what was a very small audience on the night.

I can remember my girlfriend and Donald were there and maybe 10 more people – there was almost more people on stage than in the audience!

But I had no idea that this recording was ever sold anywhere.

Generally speaking gig reactions were usually very good for BOTO and we enjoyed a good reputation as a group on the up.

I do remember getting slagged off badly in our hometown newspaper by the local football reporter (!) Martin Warrilow who did a guest review of our gig saying BOTO were a poor and less talented imitation of my old mod like band the Dream Factory which made me laugh as BOTO were hugely superior song-writers and musicians than the Factory and he obviously hadn’t got a clue what he was writing.

But then again local newspaper reviews were often political rather than accurate and I probably deserved a fair share of criticism as I was a fairly out-spoken critic of most local bands at the time so it was only fair I had some shit thrown back at me.

The point was that local newspaper gig reviews were not really that important other than creating a talking point or two in the local pubs, particularly Hamlet’s in Tamworth and also the Tavern In The Town.

Hamlet’s tended to be the more indie-rock hang out, though you would also see plenty of the heavy rock crowd in there too whereas the ‘Tav’ was the local home for the Hell’s Angels and there was a very active music column in the Tamworth Herald written by an old school friend of mine Sam Holliday which provoked much debate among musicians and gig-goers alike.

It was all good fun really and I totally respected Sam as both a journalist and a mate. He was keen to always place a positive slant on every local group to encourage them which was not my way of thinking though.

Often his positivity generated a mixture of incredulity and amusement among many people on the scene, particularly when Sam would “big up” a group who weren’t very good and I had a totally opposite viewpoint.

Being a journalist at the time, I felt that one was morally responsible for writing what you honestly believed rather than trying to be friendly and supportive to all these many groups who seemed to appear from nowhere in the Tamworth in the 80s and 90s.

I know that local reviews meant very little in the bigger scheme of things but I made a lot of enemies during this period as I tended to shoot from the hip and say what I felt and this usually meant saying a lot (but not all!) of our local contemporaries were shit.

Compounding the problem was the fact I wrote a music column in an evening newspaper in Nuneaton, some 15 miles east of Tamworth and I was equally out-spoken and unafraid of speaking my mind in print which really did piss people off, especially as I was also so active with BOTO.

Looking back I can quite understand why some people hated my guts.

And I do remember being confronted by members of one or two local bands outside the Arts Centre in Tamworth who were up for a fight because I’d criticised them.

++ The final lineup only recorded one song “Rainy Day Sunshine”. Why was this lineup much less prolific than the other ones?

After we parted company with guitarist Pete after his unwarranted punch up with John in the spring of 1990 we did stagnate a little and it took us time to find another guitarist, Paul Whitehead who then took time to settle.

During this period we were writing a lot of new songs and Mark (DeHavilland) in particular was really coming to the fore as a writer. A lot of the songs he was writing during this time would then show up after the band changed its name to the Strangeloves.

So in terms of us being prolific we were actually writing loads more than gigging during 1990 and 1991 and the only recording during this time was my song ‘Rainy Day Sunshine’ – on paper it may seem we were being quiet but in fact we were really busy behind the scenes.

++ Also you recorded this track in another studio, not at the Expresso Bongo were you seemed very comfortable but at The Reptile House. How was that experience for you?

Really didn’t like it one iota.

Didn’t get on with the sound in the studio and the whole recording of ‘Rainy Day Sunshine’ was fraught…firstly our new guitarist Paul Whitehead failed to show for the opening day of the session and so I asked my mate Nick Read, who was then in a band called Dance Stance (who were then to metamorphose into Rare Future) and he came only and played guitar.

Paul eventually added some guitar overdubs before we did the final mix but I hated the recording…..I had a great working relationship with Paul Speare at the Bongo but the Reptiule House was a different proposition in many ways.

I like the song ‘Rainy Day Sunshine’ a lot – it was a really catchy piece of brassy indie pop in the BOTO style but the recording was really lame and I hated it from the second it was mixed. Bummer!

++ Speaking of which, wasn’t there supposedly an album released with recordings done at that studio? What happened to that?

Yes it was due to appear on a compilation album of other bands from the Lichfield and Tamworth area. I’ve no idea if it ever got released but if it did we weren’t even given a free copy between us!

++ What was the best moment of being at Bash Out the Odd?

Not sure about the best moment if honest as there were a great many and I do have very positive, great feelings about the group to this day with loads of great memories.

However, one of the oddest and most ironic moments was playing a gig in Nuneaton at a club called Graysons which was named after Larry Grayson, a famous camp comedian who lived in the town and who was one of the first British TV stars to suggest an openly gay persona: he had an old-school music hall type of anecdotal comedy which made him a big star in his day.

Given that we had received some stick from people saying we were homophobic because of our band name, which we vehemently never were of course, this was a strange one.

Larry had heard about my group and even came to see me, intrigued by the name of the group and that we had appeared at Graysons.

But then he realised we had previously met a few years earlier in my role as a journalist when he had tried to seduce me on the back seat of his Rolls Royce!

Actually, I got on very well with Larry, who was well known in Britain for his time as the host of the hit TV shows “The Generation Game” & “Shut That Door!” and met him many times as a journalist during the 80s and 90s.

In fact I ended up living five doors away from him in Nuneaton for a short period when I was with the Strangeloves just after the BOTO name change and Larry died in the town in 1995.

++ When and why did you split up? Was it an easy decision?

Again, like the Space Seeds, BOTO didn’t split up at all.

We merely evolved, changed the line up and felt that a new name would be helpful, particularly as no record deal materialised with Lazy and we felt it was best to re-invent ourselves and have another crack.

I was VERY relieved to change the band name as I was such a vociferous critic of the BOTO monicker! For me it was a weight off my shoulder to move it on!

Actually, the Strangeloves was quite an odd choice for a new name because of the New York beat group from the mid 1960s of the same name but I was kinda past caring by that stage….to me anything was better than BOTO!

I remember when the Strangeloves supported Echo & The Bunnymen that Will Sergeant asked me why on earth we’d call ourselves the same name as the group of “I Want Candy” fame and I didn’t have the heart to tell him the story of my horror at us having the BOTO monicker….

++ After that I heard you resurfaced as The Strangeloves, but I’ve never heard any songs by this band of yours. How similar was it to Bash Out the Odd?

The Strangeloves really did take the BOTO sound and play with it more; we developed a lot in a short space of time and it was much more an interesting “indie-pop” sort of group and I am quite proud of a lot of the tunes we wrote.

We recorded quite a lot of demos as The Strangeloves (five or six times more tunes than BOTO) and then as the Lovebirds which was the name was moved to a year later.

If I am honest, from BOTO onwards my groups have continually evovled rather than splitting up and you can trace my current group DC Fontana right back to BOTO and the Strangelvoes was the next stage towards DC Fontana.

++ Having been in many bands, if you were to make a list of the importance of each band in your life, were would you place Bash Out the Odd?

I have fond memories of most of the groups I’ve been in (not all) but there can be no doubt that with BOTO we came close to getting signed and it was the first group since the Dream Factory that I’d been in which attracted wider interest and a following.

It also provided the very embryonic platform for everything I’ve done musically since and right up to the present day so it was an important group for me.

Where would it be placed in a list of importance? In the top half.

++ One last question. How much has Tamworth changed since those days? And if I were to visit that town, what is there to see or do for a tourist guy like me?

Tamworth has evolved of course and whereas the music scene is now tiny compared to its heyday (which would be 1984 – 1994) a lot of the “faces” from the music scene are still about and some of the venues are still there to this day although all of them are now something else.

In fact yesterday DC Fontana played an open air gig in Tamworth and Jeff Hately, the bass player with Tamworth’s best known heavy rock group, Wolfsbane (Def American) came to see us which was real nice of him.

There were a lot of old faces int he audience I hadn’t seen for many a year and it was quite an emotional and nostalgic trip in that respect. It also reminded me that there WAS some kind of kinship among local musicians however disparate our backgrounds.

There was talk around 1984 that Tamworth’s two most popular bands (which were the Dream Factory and Wolfsbane) were sworn enemies of each other….a sort of pathetic attempt at stirring up a mid-80s version of “mods & rockers”.

Nothing could be further from the truth – I got on famously with Wolfsbane who I admired loads and I enjoyed some of their more punky Ramones-like cartoon punk element of their early rock sound.

Jeff was telling me they have reformed now that Blaze Bayley, their singer, has his put his stint as lead singer with Iron Maiden firmly in the past and I wished him the greatest of luck with it all.

I have no idea if there are any actual Tamworth music tourists visiting the town today but I am sure with the right guide there could be lots of interesting things to see and people to meet if anyone wanted to hang out here in the Kingdom of Mercia!

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Listen
Bash Out the Odd – Laughing House

Thanks again to Bart for another interview. I’m very fond of this one as The Cat’s Miaow is such an inspiration and such a great band with lots of songs that you can keep close to your heart. I don’t think you need much introduction to this great Australian band, but I will remind you, if you haven’t yet, to purchase their reissues of “A Kiss and a Cuddle” and “Songs for Girls to Sing” from Library Records. Enjoy!

++ Hi Bart! How are you doing! You just put out a new CD by Bart & Friends that sounds fabulous! Care to tell me a bit more how this record came about? And what can people expect from it?

Thank you. In a lot of ways it’s just a continuation of the previous cd “Make you blush”, in that there’s the core of me, Mark and Louis but with the addition of Scott and Irene from the Summer Cats on half the songs, and Jeremy from The Zebras on drums. It’s really hard for us to find venues to play live as we need a specially re-inforced stage to support the collective weight of our egos.

Scott came in because there was a song I left off “make you blush” because my singing was so bad. I thought it was still a really good song and would suit Scott’s voice (I listened to it again recently thinking that it couldn’t have been all that bad and it was even worse than i remembered). It went really well, so I asked him to sing some more and we co-wrote a couple as well. I’ve been a fan of Scott’s singing for 20 years since his days in The Earthmen but had never really spoken to him until I supported the Summer Cats at their album launch a bit over a year ago.

I think there’s a couple of songs on the new cd that are as good as anything I’ve done before.

People should not expect to hear Pam on this one (though her husband Mike took the photo on the cover), but she will be back on the next one, as will Scott. I hate singing.

++ So again, as usual, let’s go back in time, to The Cat’s Miaow’s time. What were you doing at the time? And what sparked you to start this band?

When The Cat’s Miaow started, I was a student and playing bass in girl of the world so I had plenty of spare time and was beginning to think “I could probably do this myself”. Andrew was playing bass in The Ampersands and we began recoding songs on his 4 track. It was very low key in the beginning and was just us recording the songs we wrote for the fun of it, making cassettes and giving them to friends.

++ How did the recruiting process for this band work?

It was just the 2 of us with a drum machine initially, but once we had a few songs together, we thought it might be fun to record a couple “properly” at the studio that Girl of the World used. Neither of us are blessed with the greatest singing voice so I asked Kerrie with whom I’d been in a band briefly a couple of  years earlier. Cam was basically the only drummer I knew. It seems ridiculous now, given how well the four of us gelled musically. God knows what would’ve happened if either had have said no as I had no one else in mind. I always tend to go for people I know, friends or friends of friends. I never advertise or audition.

++ Why the name The Cat’s Miaow?

It’s a fairly common, if slightly old fashioned phrase in the US but it’s not one that has ever crept into use in Australia, so to me at least it’s always sounded cool and exotic.

The definition is“archaic 1920’s American slang that means “excellent”, “stylish”, or “impressive to the ladies”. Synonymous with the cat’s pyjamas and the bee’s knees”. which just reminded me I had a little one man band when I was teenager called The Cat’s Pyjamas.

++ Your lyrics are like small vignettes of life and I just love that, it’s easy to identify yourself with them. How did the creative process for you all work?

The process was Andrew or I would write a song and then bring it to the rest of the band. its pretty much the same way i work now, in a room by myself with a guitar and a notebook. particularly with The Cat’s Miaow i wanted to keep the lyrics straightforward and everyday, things that you could hear in a conversation rather than poetry or clever word play. and vignettes is the right word, I wanted to give just a snapshot or a brief glimpse rather than whole story.

++ And which is your favourite song that you made with The Cat’s Miaow? and why?

I really quite like “If things had been different” and the version of “Firefly” on The Long Goodbye. They both just sound like the 4 of us playing, there’s no overdubs, just us playing. my favourite songs have changed over time, I know on the liner notes of “Songs for Girls to Sing” that i thought that “Hollow Inside” and “Make a Wish” were our best songs, but i don’t feel that way now. Im also quite partial to the smaller songs like “Let me brush the hair from your face” and i think “Aurora” was a really important song for us. A little light bulb went “ding” when we finished that one and in a way that’s when The Cat’s Miaow began.

++ I can’t make my mind on which is mine, sometimes is “Hollow Inside”, sometimes “Third Floor Escape View”, some others “Sleepyhead”, and then it changes to others. But at the moment those three. Is there a story behind them?

I’m not sure I’d tell you if there was… with my songs I always tried to make them sound quite personal even when they were complete fiction. The lyrics range from 100% biographical, to being inspired by books and the aim was to make the two indistinguishable. There was one time Kerrie didn’t want to sing a song because she thought it was too personal and about a girl I liked but it was taken almost entirely from “The Catcher in the Rye”.

I guess the thing about your favorite song changing might have to do with with that we aren’t known for any one particular song. we were no hit wonders.

++ What about the video for “Third Floor Escape View”? How did that came about? Any anecdotes while recording it?

Dave Harris was putting the Munch video compiliation together and asked lots of bands to make a video to go on it. It was done on super 8 which was a pain to convert to video. Dave put it together in about 15 minutes so we could watch a Spirtualized concert he had taped. It’s all about your priorities really.

++ One thing that strikes me is that you appeared in so many compilations during the years. Did you ever say no to contribute in one? And which compilation was your favourite that you appeared on?

We probably appear on more than you realise and more than I can remember. We were on a lot of cassette compilations before we started releasing singles. We did say no to one guy and then he started bagging us on the indie pop list. Totally unrelated of course. I think “Going against Maz’s Advice” on 4 Letter Words was my favourite. Clint Barnes who released it was great and I liked that instead of one song per band you heard a few. And Pam was on it as well which was cool. But particularly in the first few years we had so many songs and no one wanted to do a single with us so we had plenty of songs to release on comps.

++ You also covered many songs with The Cat’s Miaow. Which of this covers are you the happiest with? And what other covers would you have liked to do?

I love “Nothing Can Stop Us”, I know some people hate it but it was fun pretending to be Galaxie 500. Though we probably did that quite a bit…

I dont think there’s anything that I wanted to do with The Cat’s Miaow that we didn’t end up doing. If the band had have continued we might have ended up doing the covers i did in Bart & Friends, “Lodi” by Creedence, “Hounds of Love” by Kate Bush, “Boredom” by Buzzcocks.

++ I always find a bit odd that you shared a flexi with a well-known band like Stereolab. Don’t get me wrong, I actually like you much more than them! But you know, this kind of contributions don’t happen that often. How did this happen?

There were a few months while I was staying in DC when everything seemed to fall into place, there was The Shapiros and this flexi  and that was when Bus Stop asked us to do a cd and a single. Keith from Wurlitzer jukebox was trying to get in touch with us and mentioned this to Chip Porter. Chip was a friend of Pam’s and knew I was in DC doing The Shapiros, so was able to put the 2 of us in contact. At that point I don’t think Stereolab was mentioned, but when I heard I was horrified. I thought they would never actually deliver a song and Keith would wait and wait and the flexi would be in limbo forever. I think to Keith it was just a case of it being 2 bands he liked, he was very egalitarian in that respect. Keith was another really important person to the band and the association continued with Hydroplane. If we hadn’t have fallen in with Drive-In, I think we probably would have done a lot more on Wurlitzer Jukebox. I can’t praise both labels and the people behind them enough.

++ I read that you didn’t play live. But is this 100% true? Im sure you must have played some gigs?
Nearly true. We only played once publicly at the launch for the Munch video and a couple of times at parties. our main priority was always songwriting and recording rather than performing. It wasn’t that we couldn’t play, it just didn’t seem the best use of our time. I think cam would’ve liked us to play live more though.

++ Why do you think Summershine turned you down and that American labels were the ones interested in releasing your music?

The American scene in the mid 90’s was quite vibrant and we ended up working with 7 American labels, Sunday, Drive-In, Four Letter Words, Shelflife, Bus Stop, Spit and a Half and Darla. I’m not sure the reason why or what they saw in us that appealed to them. You tend not to question things like that at the time. For the most part, we considered our peers to be American bands like Glo-Worm and Buddha on the Moon.

Regarding Summershine, it probably seems odd now, Melbourne indie label + Melbourne indie band = perfect combination. But most of the bands Summershine was releasing then like Autohaze and The Earthmen were really quite big at the time in Australia. They played live a lot, got played on  public radio, people bought their records. The Cat’s Miaow were just mucking around on a 4 track in a bedroom and didn’t even want our photo taken. I could be smug and say “well people are still buying The Cat’s Miaow and no one can even remember Autohaze” but I probably wouldn’t have signed us either if I were Jason.

And to be fair we sent him “Aurora” and pretended to be a band from Canada called Hydroplane. He said he liked it but that he didn’t think anyone would buy it because no one had heard of us. Obviously we weren’t really taking this whole “lets start a career in the music business” thing very seriously. And it’s not like Summershine were the only label to turn us down either, and at least he replied. Yes i’m talking to you Sarah records and Parasol.

I don’t think we sounded very “1994” which probably worked against us at the time, but in hindsight might be working in our favour now.

++ The artwork of the Cat’s Miaow’s releases usually includes a photograph as the cover. It was like a trademark I’d say. Who took care of the artwork and where did these photos came from?

The first few were done by me and are old photos from my family photo album. The photos are mostly me or my older sisters. The early sleeves have a certain charm, but I prefer the sleeves on  the last couple of singles that  were done by HK from Buddha on the Moon. Then we called in the big gun of Steve Crushworthy to do the re-issue cds and the long goodbye. we were a very lucky band now i think about it. Steve’s designs are beautiful.

++ How important was Mike Babb from Drive-In/Quiddity for you? It seems he was your biggest fan during the 90s releasing almost all your catalog!?

Mike was great for us. i can’t fault our experience with Drive-In in any way. He also did a LOT of behind the scenes stuff with library records as well. Drive-In didn’t just releases the Cat’s Miaow, but pretty much every band I’ve been in. They were very efficient, honest, friendly, supportive. I loved all the other bands they released as well especially Buddha on the Moon. After a couple of years of sending out tapes it was good to finally have a home.

++ And what about Albert from Sunday? I love his label but it seems he has disappeared from the face of Earth!

Yeah, we never quite clicked with Albert in the way that we did with Mike. I am grateful that he released our first single but it did take a hell of a long time to come out. And he spelled my name wrong on the sleeve as well. I ended up as Brat. Maybe it wasn’t a mistake…

++ The original “A Kiss and a Cuddle” compilation came out on Bus Stop. I read somewhere that it was badly distributed. Does that mean that there are many of them sitting on boxes on some cellar? Why did this bad distribution happen?

I’d say they were landfill. The distribution might have been fine, but I think I only ever saw it listed at Parasol. My take on it was that Brian was burnt out and exhausted, he’d been doing the label for 10 years by then and I think  the label just fell by the wayside for a while. It happens, I know it happened with me and Library towards the end. We didn’t really hear from him for a long while but he sent us a huge wad of Cat’s Miaow and Pencil Tin cds in the late 90s for which I’m eternally grateful.  I was pissed off and frustrated at the time (1996) but I’m fine with it now and if we crossed paths I’d thank him for having us on Bus Stop.  We got to be on the same label as Honeybunch, Rocketship, Bomb Pops and Veronica Lake. What’s not to love?

++ But happily you re-released it plus other Cat’s Miaow stuff on your own Library Records. Was that an easy decision? I know of many people that say they won’t release themselves because of some sort of strange ethics. Anyhow, I do think it was a great thing you did, we needed those records!

Yeah, I can understand people shying away from the whole vanity release thing. It’s a bit like your mum paying kids to play with you. in our case, I was fine with it as both cds had been released by other labels already which legitimised their existence and it gave us a chance to re-work the track listing of “A Kiss and a Cuddle”. “Songs for Girls to Sing” had already sold out two pressings on Drive-In and Mike had said he wasn’t going to repress it. Hs priority was in releasing new music rather than keeping the back catalogue available. While i can see his point, it’s not a view point I share. possibly to do with me being a librarian, but I think there are some things that should be readily available to people without them paying exorbitant prices on ebay.

They’ve been steady sellers over the past 10 years. I probably sell about 1 a week…. ka-ching!!!

++ You said that in Australia no one knew you. I’m wondering if there have been fans from say, non-traditional indiepop countries?

It seems everywhere is an indiepop country these days. in the past 5 years the bulk of the letters have come from Sweden but you probably can’t get a country that’s more indiepop than Sweden. Probably due to Fraction Discs being the only place that stocked our cds for quite a long while. If it wasnt for them i doubt I’d be making music now.

There was a band from the Phillipines called Carnival Park who did a cover of “Portland Oregon”. But I’d be more surprised by a letter from Sydney than I would from Singapore.

++ So when and why did you split? And what happened to the rest of the members after?
In some ways we never did. we never discussed it at the time, we just sort of stopped. There were a number of factors, the main one being that I wasn’t writing songs that I felt were worth recording let alone releasing. cam was living in either London or Sydney, but the moment that we ended for me was when we were rehearsing and Andrew said he had a new song, but that he wanted to release it as Hydroplane. I said “great, let’s hear it” but in my head I went “The Cat’s Miaow has just ended”.

After that, Kerrie and i did quite a bit in Andrew’s band Hydroplane. Hydroplane released 3 cds and countless singles. I know some people think of it as a continuation of The Cat’s Miaow, but it was like starting a new band. Different influences, different way of writing and recording, different direction.

I did a couple of cds as Bart & Friends which Andrew played on and recorded.

And I think The Long Goodbye was probably done after we broke up?

I think when a band starts re-recording its own songs in french, it’s a good indicator that they’ve run out of ideas and should stop, but if you want to play alternative history and hear what The Cat’s Miaow’s next single might’ve been, do a playlist on your ipod of:

Wurlitzer Jukebox (Hydroplane)
CBGB’s (Bart & Friends)
Song for the Meek (Hydroplane)
Lodi (Bart & Friends)

++ Care to tell me something about The Cat’s Miaow that no one else knows? :p

There’s not much to tell, there was no drama, arguments, drugs, divas. Brian Jonestown massacre we were not.
We’re all still in touch with each other, not as often or in person as Id like, but still in touch.

Oh, Kerrie is an opera singer. do people know that???

++ I think like always, I write too many questions when I interview you Bart! Last time I asked you about your hobbies, and you told me you love megalithic sites. Which ones are your favourite? I was in Stonehenge and it was quite impressive!

Ring of Brodgar, Orkney. It’s huge, about the size of a football ground and it syncs in with other sites like Maes Howe and surrounding lakes and mountains.

I also really like Beaghmore in Ireland. The circles and stones are small and would fit in your backyard but I still find them quite special

Of the ones I havent been to but would really like to, top of the list is Callanish in Lewis in the western isles of Scotland

++ And what about food? Is there any sort of Australian cuisine?

There is one Australian culinary delight called a tim tam which is a chocolate biscuit that we used to use to lure Kerrie to rehearsal. Andrew, Cam and I would get one each and Kerrie would eat the rest of the packet. She’ll deny it, but I saw this happen on several occasions.

++ Thanks again for the interview Bart! Anything else you’d like to add?

I think a lot of people give me too much credit for The Cat’s Miaow. Everyones contributions were an integral part and Andrew in particular wrote some of our best songs and recorded and mixed them. his role tends to get downplayed a lot unfortunately.

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Listen
The Cat’s Miaow – Third Floor Escape View