Thanks so much to Andy, Andrew and Colin for the interview! I’ve been a huge fan of The Decemberists of Liverpool for so long. I think the first time I heard them was thanks to my friend Jessel who shared with me the track “Gift Horse” and I was blown away. That must be more than 15 or so years ago.
Since that time I had wanted to interview them. And even though I’ve been in touch with Andy on and off for years the interview never happened.
But hey, the wait is over now. At last I get to know more details about this fantastic band that you wonder how come they weren’t huge!
Also do check the interview I did with Andy about Hellfire Sermons, the band he was in after The Decemberists, many years ago, and Swim Naked, the band before The Decemberists!
++ Hi Andy, first of all I won’t call you The Decemberists of Liverpool. For me you are The Decemberists and the other band that came later and is more popular can suck it. They are not as half as good as you were. But let’s start this interview. It was 1984 and you start The Decemberists. Who were the members and how did you knew each other?
Andrew: The original members were:
Colin Pennington – Guitar/Vocals, Andrew Deevey – Lead Guitar. I didn’t know the other members of the band as I answered an advert to join the band. Andy Ford – Bass and Tom Gent – Drums.
Andy: Originally – Andy Ford Tom Gent and Andy Ford from Swim Naked, and Colin Pennington from Tunnel Users
++ And why did you choose the name The Decemberists?
Colin: Think it was one of the early guitarists is my recollection it was based on pre Russian revolution revolt?
Andy: They were the first Russian revolutionaries, 1820s, and were exiled to Siberia. I seem to remember 4 names going into a hat and the ones I can remember were ‘The Generals’, ‘The Green Wallpaper’ and ‘The Decemberists’. We pulled out one of the others and everyone said “No, let’s have the Decemberists”!
Andrew: When we were thinking of a band name there were a lot of bands around at the time whose name ended in ‘S’ and described a group of people such as The Comsat Angels
++ Tell me a bit about the two bands that you all were previously in, Swim Naked and Tunnel Users?
Colin: The Tunnel Users were more a live band but did release one single the double A side Dance b/w Sun arise dub. It was shite tbh but they were a fun group of people.
Andy: Swim Naked were me and Neal Carr and Tom Gent on drums, and others, played 2 or 3 gigs in Liverpool, a couple of favourable reviews of our demo. It was sort of Joy Division/Cure/Velvet Underground. A CD was put out last year in memory of the singer, Chent, as he died young. CD is called ‘We Are All Singers’ and it’s on Amazon, I-tunes etc. Neal went to The Lids (girl singer/acoustic guitar stuff,) then Jenny Lind.
++ You played extensively, lots of gigs. Which ones are the ones that you remember the most and why?
Colin: Yes the ULU gigs, the Pyramid supports inc James and the Bangor gig for all the wrong reasons. We’d quite often do a truncated set which was a punchy way of ‘leaving our mark’.
Andy: Our first gig was actually The Cavern in Mathew Street, to about a dozen people at lunchtime – June 1984. We played lots of Liverpool gigs – one place called The Venue you ended up playing with 3 bands you had never met before, usually terrible. Some of them were trying to be the new Frankie Goes To Hollywood, or else Duran Duran – in a flea bitten Liverpool backstreet club… We had a good poster for Kirklands and we stuck up loads of posters round town, got the name known. I remember the Otterspool Peace Festival in a tent, Mardi Gras in Liverpool January 1985 was great (with the Membranes) but ended in a huge argument with the venue about money. Supporting James was memorable – they were strange – requested no alcohol in the gig area, and at that time they played the songs differently every time they played. They were really special then, far better than later incarnations. The Neptune in support of Liverpool City Council (November 1986) went down really well and it was recorded. I was listening to it the other day.
Andrew: I remember the London gigs as being the most exciting the University of London and especially the Rock Garden in London as it was like a mini Hacienda back then plus there were lots of people there to see us.
++ You recorded great demos that attracted interest to John Peel and Rough Trade. First of all, how many demos did you record in total? Which songs were included? And how come you didn’t get a proper release?
Colin: Can’t remember Andy you’d have this info. I do remember trailing round the record companies and meeting dickhead A & R men who said things like there’s – the songs have too many choruses
Andy: First demo was with Karen Jones – Upwards From Here/ Good Man/This To That and it was pretty good. Me and Colin made appointments with various record companies. You sat there and they listened to one verse and the chorus of the first song, and that was it, that was your chance. Some said nice things about the harmonies – “Come back in 6 months lads” one said, but at Rough Trade Geoff Travis said it was excellent potential, and he would help us play in London and that’s how we got the ULU gigs.
Andrew: The demos that we recorded were.
Upwards from Here/From This To That/A Good Man – recorded at The Inevitable Records Studio, Liverpool. 02 September 1984
This Town/Simpler To Say/For Just One Instant – recorded 02/03 and 05 February 1985 at The Pink Studios, Liverpool.
Always Caught in The Rain/Bush Recorder/What Possessed You – Recorded at Station House Studio, New Brighton
There It Is/The Man Who could See Through Everybody – Recorded at Vulcan Studios, Dock Road.
James Is on 15 July 1985/Gift Horse/Up In Marble Room – Recorded at SOS Studios, Liverpool.
Freak Storm/Rachel Clean Single completed 20 December 1987
We didn’t get a proper release as we couldn’t afford to release anything ourselves as we were students, unemployed or in low paid jobs. We were hoping that some record company would help us out but it didn’t happen.
++ You did appear on a couple of compilations, right?
Colin: Over to you Andy
Andy: There was ‘James Is’ on Discreet Campaigns and Gift Horse on ‘Ways To wear Coats’ with the other Vulcan Studio bands – Half Man Half Biscuit, Jactars, DaVincis. Then later on every now and then Decemberists songs went on various indie compilations.
Andrew: The Decemberists appeared on:
- Discreet Campaigns – James Is
- Ways to Wear Coats ( A Vulcan Street Compilation) Gift Horse
++ I read that none of you could buy the Discreet Campaigns tape. Is this true? Well I think that was true- I had a copy but gave it to someone at a venue.
Andy: What happened was it came out and we didn’t get a courtesy copy, and we were actually quite poor – unemployed, on benefits etc. Colin did buy a copy at Probe, and then gave it to someone at a venue trying to get a gig, who promised faithfully to give it back..and of course didn’t. So for literally 30 years no-one had a copy. I eventually got one in 2020. The cassette sold well, especially in the US, as it had New Order on it and we did get some fan mail for James Is.
++ So who is this James from “James Is (Still the Same)”? Was it based on a real character?
Colin: Yes a lad I knew at school- he was a twat- lack of empathy and human compassion- and I met him years later and he was still the same…… I chewed round James is ( Still a cunt) but hmmmm maybe not
++ Some time ago you posted the FABULOUS “Simpler to Say”. I was gobsmacked. You really know how to make great pop songs I thought. Care to tell me the story behind this great C86 nugget?
Colin: Thank you its lovely that the music still has some impact.
Andy: The bass and guitar have some jazz influence, it has no middle 8, but it does have an end bit which has a bit of ‘Ceremony’ by New Order in there. The vocal harmonies are what people like. Plus it’s short!
Andrew: From my perspective, The Smiths were around at the time and I liked the way Johnny Marr played a bit different to everyone else – picking the notes rather than strumming. We didn’t want to be a band were both guitarists were strumming the same chords so I developed a style were I’d pick the notes over a strummed chord back ground. We were also discovering more elaborate jazz type chords like major and minor sevenths typical of what you would find with The Smiths and Aztec Camera.
++ And of course the only other song I’ve had the chance to listen has been “Gift Horse”. It’s also fantastic. It’s hard for me to believe no one released these great tracks. Have you ever thought about doing a retrospective CD?
Colin: Yes Gift Horse is a banger.
Andy: I have been going through the demos and gig tapes, its about 30 songs, and we will release them it just depends which songs. There is half an offer in from an indie label to do it.
Andrew: There have been offers from record enthusiasts that release music must it just never materialised.
++ Tell me about this residency you got at the University of London Union? How did that work?
Andy: We got ULU through Rough Trade, they were really good for us – a big audience, good sound system and being paid! And a crate of beer. We played well. Couple of years later Andy Deevey was recognised in the street as “one of the Decemberists”. On ‘Man Who Could See Through Everybody” he bent the neck of his guitar to get a big WAH sound. People loved it.
++ There’s a point were lots of people join The Decemberists. Karen Jones joins as backing vocals, Roger McLoughlin on drumsand even a new manager, Jackie Gribbon. How did all of this affect the band and what did they bring to the table?
Colin: Karen we brought in to beef up the vox- we could see from some of our influences the impact of the vocal harmonies. This has stayed with us into the Hellfires I think.
Andy: We found Roger for drums through an advert after Tom left, Karen Jones was with us January to August 1985, Roger left to travel the world in November 1985, and Chris Harrison joined us from Jenny Lind (Neal’s band of the time). Jackie had managed Del Amitri but they froze him out when they got a record deal. He moved from Glasgow to Liverpool to manage us which gave us a certain status in Liverpool. The first Del Amitri album is genius – top lyrics, and the music, far better then their later stadium rock efforts.
Andrew: Roger McLouglin was a drummer brought in to replace Tom Gent who left to concentrate on his Architecture Studies. Karen Jones was brought in to beef up the vocals as we had a phase of developing harmony vocals and trying to sound like the Mamas and Papas. Jackie Gribbon came to help manage us and get us to the next level. He was good at Artwork and Photography.
++ What about those days at Vulcan Street studios. What do you remember hanging out with so many creative bands? Any anecdotes you could share?
Colin: We had a great laugh and there were significant artistic developments for us as a band. There was some good relationships and competition between the bands many of who we would share gigs.
Andy: Vulcan was very friendly – the owner Barry was just a music fan, and the bands down there were similar – unemployed young creative people. We tended to play most with The Jactars because firstly they were musically excellent and secondly nice sane people. But we also played with the Da Vincis and Jenny Lind, and went to see The Room, Half Man Half Biscuit, Innocents Abroad and One Last Fight. It was a scene without us knowing it. The friendly competition with Jenny Lind spurred us on. Tog from The Jactars worked there a lot. Vulcan was this disused warehouse on the Dock Road, parts of it had no roof, one floor was full of pigeons…it was a one off. I went past the other day and it was great to see a load of scrawny youngsters stood outside.
Andrew: The bands of note that I can remember from Vulcan Street were The Jactars, The Davincis and Half Man Half Biscuit. Nigel from Half Man Half Biscuit worked behind the desk and used to tell us lots of tales about weird things. Tog from the Jactars used to work the night shift and we’d have to wake him up so we could drop off our equipment to our lock up at 3am.
++ So what happened, why did you decide it was time to move on and change names?
Colin: I think we felt we’d flogged the Decemberists as much as we could and thought a name change might help. Andy D had decided to leave us and head to London. We asked Neal to join which brought a sharper more angular sound to the Hellfires.
Andy: I wasn’t sure why at the time, but looking back I think we lost confidence. You have to remember at that time it was so difficult to release your music. You had to be let in by the gatekeepers at the big record labels (or an indie). After we changed the name we found out that people had been going into Liverpool HMV asking if The Decemberists had released a record. Chris went to college, Andy Deevey moved to London, and so me and Colin linked up with Neal and formed a band called ‘The Know Nots’ for a few months, then Freak Storm got a great review and we started to be offered gigs – but only if we played as Hellfire Sermons. It worked out OK!
Andrew: There was still some life in The Decemberists name but ultimately all bands run their course. We had gained some notoriety in Liverpool and should’ve released the Freak Storm single under the Decemberists name. The B side ‘Rachel Clean’ should have been the A and the A side ‘Freak Storm’ was a new song that was recorded too quickly – I was trying to write my guitar parts in the studio as I was recording them! We’d never played it live before.
I moved to London to see if I could get into some bands there and tried out with lots of bands such as The La’s and Pete Shelley. I’d always loved The Buzzcocks but they say don’t meet your heroes so I didn’t turn up! Anyway the Buzzcocks reformed a few months later. I ended up in a band called ‘The Caretaker Race’ whose frontman was Andy Strickland of The Loft fame. He’d started the band after the acrimonious split of the band onstage at The Hammersmith Odeon on The Colourfield Tour. The Caretaker Race were signed to Steven Streets’ ‘Foundation Label’ and helped us record the Hangover Square album.
++ I was thinking, when you formed there was no C86 or indiepop. Having being around before and after that defining tape, do you feel things changed for guitar pop bands or not?
Colin: Well C86 was very influential – We were on the cusp of getting on C86 which really would have helped us to a wider audience. I think we’d become a bit cynical about the music industry by then. Yes I feel that guitar pop became very popular although guitar pop probably peaked with Brit pop, Oasis, Blur, Suede etc. There’s still great guitar bands out there but it seems harder t break through- although rap/ hip hop are way bigger than it used to be in the 80’s. BBC radio 6 still invests lots of time in UK in guitar music.
Andy: C86 just recognised something that was massive at the time – not in sales, but in bands, gigs, venues and record labels. It was what people wanted to see in a live environment. A lot of the bands were a ripple effect from The Smiths – bright guitar pop, anti-macho pop star bullshit, thoughtful, good lyrics. The tape kind of legitimised it. And in turn built it. Creation Records came from that scene. So it was influential, and still is.
++ I haven’t been to Liverpool yet, I should go next time, I’m actually, when it comes to Premier League, a fan of Liverpool FC, so… Anyhow, aside from Anfield, where else would you recommend visiting?
Colin: Liverpool FC are shite btw. If you’re going to Liverpool hit the museums, go to the Albert dock, Baltic Quarter for culture, food, drink, live music. Lots of good places to drink/ eat out in City centre. Sefton Park and Lark Lane is great to hang out.
Andy: Liverpool is great to visit. If you came (or anyone else) we would take you down the Dock Road with all its warehouses, Vulcan Street, the docks and ships, and the dock wall built by Napoleonic prisoners of war, then into town to The Lion Tavern (we always go after practice) then up the hill to The Everyman bistro and The Philharmonic pub (with its historical toilets)
++ And what about eating? Where do you think they make the best scouse in Liverpool? and what about butties?
Colin: Ma Egertons.
Andy: Maggie Mays on Bold Street, Ma Egertons by Lime Street station I have also heard said as good scouse. It’s a very nice food (if it’s made right)
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