Thanks so much to Laz for the interview! You may know Laz’s current bands, Bubblegum Lemonade or Strawberry Whiplash, both releasing terrific records on Matinée, but many years ago he was in an amazing band called The Sherbet Fountains who didn’t release any records but did record some songs that are true pop nuggets! Time to discover them!
++ Hi Laz! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? How’s Bubblegum Lemonade? Is there a new release coming in the near future?
Hi Roque. I’m very well, thank you. I’ve been busy working away in my small studio, recording new songs for Bubblegum Lemonade. I have a brand-new BL album pretty much finished, although it won’t be coming out till sometime next year. I’m thinking of calling it Going Deaf for a Living, on account of a tiny bit of Tinnitus which I had been suffering from a couple of months back, it has cleared up now, thankfully.
In the meantime, I’m continuing to write additional new BL songs which could be substituted onto the new album in leu of the ones that are already there. One song, Out in the Streets, I originally wrote circa 1996 for my, then, band The Stepping Stones, we used to perform it live. If it makes the final cut, it’ll be one of the oldest songs to have had an official BL release. A couple of other songs on the next album, Moving to LA and New Clothes for the old Gods, have been bumped off at least a couple my previous albums at the last minute; I have now re-worked them, and they will eventually be given an official release. I hope.
There’s a couple of new songs coming out from Strawberry Whiplash very soon. The lead track is very much in the same vein as early period Primitives. The b-side is a cool jazzy number.
I’ve also been working with Sandra from Strawberry Whiplash and my good pal Kenji from Cay Hips on a new project called Time Between. It’s a Matinee Recordings super group. We are planning on putting out an album in the new year, and the good news is that we already have six out of the final target of twelve songs completed. I think that the album is quite different from what any of us have done before, I am pleasantly surprised by the way that things are developing.
++ How would you compare The Sherbet Fountains with Bubblegum Lemonade? Are there any similarities? Many differences?
Both bands are pop, that’s for sure. Subject wise, the SF songs perfectly sum up how it felt to be a teenager in the mid-1980s. But BL’s songs, such as, First Dance for the Last Time and You Can’t go Back Again, are definitely moving into middle-age territory. The SF demo had six songs recorded and mixed in around six hours, whereas I spend about a month, on and off, recording each BL song; although I do try to make them come across as though they are being performed by a group of musicians standing in a room, blasting it out in one go, lol.
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?
I must have been around nine y/o, and I was walking around the family home carrying a battery-powered radio, and ABBA’s Money, Money, Money came on. Great tune, of course, but what struck me as being interesting was that catchy pop music could also say something interesting about the world.
Our house had an old red and white Dansette record player and a large pile of 7” singles picked up from charity shops and jumble sales, there were a few T Rex and Monkees singles in the collection, they turned out to be a vital grounding in pop for the young Laz.
We never had a television till I was around ten, so until then we had to make our own entertainment; being creative, using our imagination. All of my other five siblings have continued to this day to write poetry or create songs. In saying that, I wasn’t naturally musical in my youth, it took me a while to learn how to even tune a guitar. Thankfully, guitars have frets, which makes them easier to play. I wouldn’t say that I was bad at Music at school, but the teacher graded me as a D flat, ha!
I shared a room with my brother Michael, he was a year older than me (and still is). When he was fourteen, he started to learn the guitar. I wasn’t interested myself at first, but when I saw how popular he was playing at house parties, I decided that I wanted some of that kind of attention, and decided to learn a few chords. Michael would get me to play chords through the 12 bar blues sequence while he improvised / jammed over the top; fun to do, not such fun to listen to, ha!
In the early 80s, similar many of the boys at my school, I liked bands like Madness and The Jam, that was until one of my older sisters started seeing a new boyfriend, he brought rock / metal music into our house, we all got into that for a short while, but those bands were thrown out like a sweaty pair of leather trousers when the likes Orange Juice, Aztec Camera, REM, The Rain Parade, Game Theory, Rainy Day etc started to come through. One of my older brothers was a Mod, so I’d hear him playing The Who and The Kinks, etc. I personally think that Kinks were the best British band of that era; best song writing, best musicians, not that it’s a competition, of course.
This was the point in time when I started to move away from mainstream music. There have been times, through the years, when the music that I happen to love manages to become part of a popular wave; late 80s indie, Madchester and Britpop. My sister’s boyfriend also introduced us to The Velvet Underground, I’ll never forget the first time that I heard Sunday Morning, it sounded so contemporary. I was also, under my very own steam, getting into The Monkees, The Byrds, The Yardbirds, Leonard Cohen, Francoise Hardy, Astrud Gilberto, etc.
++ Had you been in other bands before The Sherbet Fountains? If so, how did all of these bands sound? Are there any recordings?
I had been playing music with my school pals, but nothing formal. Then I joined up with my brother playing blues covers in his band, The Badger Brothers. In late 1986, I joined a band with some friends which was called The Jaggy Nettles, great fun, but we never got around to playing any gigs. None of these bands made any proper studio recordings.
++ Where were you from originally?
I was born and grew up in the town of Kilmarnock, it was famous for many years as being the home of Johnnie Walker whisky, and for being the place where the poet Burns’ first edition was originally published.
++ How was Kilmarnock at the time of The Sherbet Fountains? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
In the mid-80s, most of the bands that played the pubs and clubs of Kilmarnock were blues or rock bands, but the local Council started diverting some of the youth funding form sporting projects towards the creative arts; putting on Sunday night gigs at a town centre Council owned venue, and setting up a rehearsal room in a dis-used gymnasium changing room. The idea was to give the kids something positive to put their energies into. So, from this enablement grew a diverse scene, each band taking the lead from their own favourite artist and writing their own songs in that style, looking back, it was brilliant. And most of the bands got along with each other too.
It had a couple of great record shop, one of them had the unimaginative name of Home Entertainment Centre, but there was a great selection of records on offer inside, it’s where I bought my 12” copy of Just Like Honey for 99p. It’s also where I bought the Real World 7” by Baby Lemonade, the guy behind the counter quipped to me, ‘do you like pop music?’ ha!
++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?
In 1986, me and Ally T, the singer of The Sherbet Fountains, attended different schools, so she wasn’t someone that I would have met by chance. But as it happened, I had a school friend called David K, a good-looking chap, he looked like he could have been in the Mary Chain with his naturally frizzy hair sticking out at the front, and his black biker’s jacket, anyway, he was going out with Ally T, and I would bump into them in the town centre or at local hip musical happenings. In time, me and Ally T became friends, and we would chat on the phone and I would pop up to her parents’ house in the evening to drink tea and eat Hobnob biscuits and share news of great new songs that we had heard on the radio.
Ally T’s best friend was Maggie, who lived nearby, and they had been writing songs together. Whilst they were both musically talented, trumpet and violin, they needed someone with a guitar to give their melodies some context. Ally T sang the songs to me and I fitted some chords around the melody. I wasn’t a very good guitarist at this point, but I knew all the majors and minors and could play barre chords, so I was covered to an extent.
The idea of The Sherbet Fountains as a band was Ally T and Maggie’s, they weren’t ready to leave childhood behind, just yet. The song, Going Back, by The Byrds summed up the feeling perfectly. Shortly after, me, Ally T and Maggie played our first ‘gig’ at a friend’s house party, much to the amusement and appreciation of all in attendance. It had been worth me learning a few chords on the guitar after all. This was the band’s first line up. One thing worth mentioning is that we were all friends first and band members second, if we weren’t in a band, we’d still be hanging out together. Most bands are the other way around.
So, I played guitar, Maggie played the drums and Ally T sang, but convention dictated that we needed a bass player. My brother Michael had been helping me work out the chords for the cover songs which The Sherbet Fountains had been playing, so he was the perfect person to draft in on bass duties. This was SF MKII.
Due to musical differences; we thought that we were musical, but he thought differently, Michael left to concentrate on his own band after a couple of gigs, so Maggie’s younger brother David Dunsmore, who was only fourteen at the time, joined on bass. He wasn’t a bass player, he wasn’t even a guitarist, but he learned very quickly. Just a couple of years later, David went on to play bass on almost all of the songs on the Trashcan Sinatra’s debut album, Cake. He would much later form his own band, Tesco Chainstore Mascara.
A Little later Maggie moved to violin and my friend Gordon joined on drums. This was the band’s fourth line up.
The fifth and final line up was Ally T (lead vox), Maggie (violin), Dave (bass), Laz (guitar, occasional vox), Gordon (drums, posters, puns) and Gordon’s girlfriend Clare (keyboards).
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
To start with, Maggie and Ally T would come up with ideas and I would put chords to them. When David Dunsmore joined, he too would work out the chords and even come up with a few songs with Ally T. I never came up with any songs for the band until the later period; I wrote a cheeky song called Stuck Together.
In 1988, Ally T and Maggie started further education and the Fountains stopped playing gigs. Me, Gordon and David Dunsmore formed a band called The Spaceheads, I started writing songs with David at this point.
Back to the Fountains in 1987, my parents’ house was a semi-detached cottage, so there was a room towards one side of the building which was sufficiently far away from the neighbours to allow us to make a little bit of noise, so we could practice there. We may have practiced at the Dunsmore house on a couple of occasions, and we definitely practiced in a proper rehearsal room and in the local authority owned ex-gymnasium changing room.
Here is the process and the credits for the SF songs…
In the Picture was an early SF song. Maggie wrote the words, Ally T the melody, Laz the chords. Laz and Michael came up with jangling the guitar motif.
Another early song, Look Before You Leap, mostly written by Ally T; words and melody, and Laz worked out the accompanying chords. We never recorded this one professionally, there’s time yet, I suppose.
Unpredictable was written after Dave joined the band, he replaced Michael who went on to concentrate on his other band, The Badger Brothers. Ally T wrote the lyrics and melody, Dave the guitar chords. Laz supplied the twang.
Too Big World is another Ally T / Dave collaboration. Ally T, lyrics and melody and Dave chords. Maggie drums.
Mr Murray, Ally T words / melody, Dave chords. Arpeggio guitar picking by Laz. Maggie drums.
Everyone’s Gone, reflects the cold war paranoia of the 1980s. David, chords and lyrics, Ally T wrote / helped the melody, Laz arpeggio guitar picking. Maggie drums.
Build a Wall, Dave, lyrics and chords, Ally T melody. Maggie drums.
Sometimes, Maggie, lyrics, Maggie and Ally T, melody, David chords. We never recorded this one.
Stuck Together, lyrics, melody, chords by Laz. Bass, David. There’s a live version of this song, it’s very poorly mixed, unfortunately.
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
Ally T and Maggie chose the name, at the time there was a trend towards regressing back to childhood, or in our case, not leaving childhood in the first place, ha!
++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
Going by the cover versions that we played at our early gigs it would have to be, Talulah Gosh, Blondie, The Saints, Buddy Holly, The Primitives, Meat Whiplash, The Jesus and Mary Chain. Ally T and Michael liked The Fall, Maggie liked Echo and the Bunnymen, David Dunsmore liked Pink Floyd and The Beautiful South (a little later), Gordon liked The Jam and The B52s, I liked the Byrds and The Jazz Butcher. Early period My bloody Valentine is definitely where I took my guitar sound from; pure white noise fuzz.
++ And I want to ask too about Scottish pop, being quite a fan myself. If you were to do a top 5, from the top of your head, which bands would you pick? And why do you think Scotland produces such quality pop music? Is it something in the water?
The top 5 Scottish bands that I actually still listen to on a regular basis are: The Jesus and Mary Chain, Orange Juice, The Bachelor Pad, Strawberry Switchblade, Meat Whiplash. There are so many other, but I’m only allowed five.
Scotland producing so many great artists could have something to do with it being a small country, which makes it easier for a band to gain some kind of national recognition. Or, perhaps it has to do with our melody rich Celtic heritage? Or the fact that the Velvet Underground albums are on the schools Music syllabus (only kidding).
++ On Youtube there are a couple songs by The Sherbet Fountains, “Unpredictable” and “In the Picture”, that are from a 1987 demo tape. Was wondering of course, what other songs were on this tape?
Sirocco Studio Demo (Summer 1987) 1. Too Big World 2. Build a Wall 3. Unpredictable 4. In the Picture 5. Everyone’s Gone 6. As Tears go by
++ And these demo tapes, did you usually make them all DIY? Did you sell them at gigs? Did you make sleeves for them?
We each received a second-generation master cassette from which we made our own copies, we gave these copies away to friends. I don’t think that we ever actually intended on selling any of them.
++ Checking out an old Myspace page you had, I know there were more songs, at least 6 more, right? I see song names like “Too Big World”, “Try to Make you Understand”, “Build a Wall”, “Everyone’s Gone”, “As Tears Go By” and “Nothing at All”. How many demo tapes did the band put together? Can we put together a demo-graphy? What songs were included in each tape?
The Sherbet Fountains (Demography)
Ghettoblaster Recordings (Sirocco rehearsal room, January 1987, practicing just before our first gig)
- Train From Kansas City
- Really Stupid
- Look Before You Leap *
- Don’t Slip Up
- I’m Gonna Love You Too
- Ghost Ships
- Steaming Train
- We Found a Way to the Sun
- Look Before You Leap [re-arranged version]*
- I’m Gonna Love You Too [Mike mix-up]
- Ghost Ships
* Sherbet original
Sirocco Studio Demo (Summer 1987)
- Too Big World
- Build a Wall
- Unpredictable
- In the Picture
- Everyone’s Gone
- As Tears go by
The song that you mention, Nothing at All, is, most likely, actually called In the Picture. When Dave was putting them up on MySpace, he was guessing the names, ha!
++ And so, were did you usually record your songs? Did you normally use the same recording studio? What about a producer?
The Sherbet Fountains had two visits a studio. The first was Sirocco in Kilmarnock, in the summer of 1987. We used a little bit of money that we made from gigging, £60 approx., and hired its 8-track room. The Engineer was years ahead of us musically, but didn’t have our sense of Indie or even Pop, lol. In the 1980s most Engineers tried to make you sound like Genesis; fortunately, we only had six hours to record six songs, so there was no danger of that happening.
Later on, we played a gig for a friend’s club night at Kilmarnock’s legendary Vikki’s Nite Club, and in leu of payment, he agreed to have us come over to a community-based recording studio that he had access to, in a small town near Kilmarnock. But due to technical problems with their equipment, the recordings were never finished, which is a real shame. It was an exciting day out, though.
++ Are there more recordings by the band that we haven’t mentioned?
I think that I’ve mentioned them all. There are tens of recording by The Spaceheads, the band that me, David and Gordon fell into afterwards.
++ How come there were no proper releases by the band? Not even compilations?
The reason for us being in a band was to hang out together as friends and to play gigs, there was a period where we were playing a gig every two weeks.
++ Was there any interest from labels to put your songs out?
The purpose of the Sirocco Studio demo was to send out to get gigs, putting out a record wasn’t a priority at the time.
++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “In the Picture”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?
Ally T reckons that In the Picture was inspired by the struggles with emotions of being a teenager. And is about daydreaming and escaping from reality.
Maggie wrote the words, Ally T the melody, I put the chords to it. The main riff was most likely created be me and my brother Michael. Notice at the end of the song, how I keep on playing for a little while after the rest of the band is finished, I hadn’t realised that the song had ended and kept on playing, fortunately it worked out well. Sounds like I meant it to happen.
++ If you were to choose your favorite The Sherbet Fountains song, which one would that be and why?
My favourite is Look Before You Leap, Ally T, words and melody, I worked out the accompanying chords. It has a great melody and is, of course, a great piece of advice to remember in life, ha!
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
I’ve never completed a Sherbets gigography, but I think that it might be something between ten and 15 concerts.
++ I found a flyer online of a gig where you and Andrianne supported Blood Red Roses at the Cheers Bar in Kilmarnock. Out of curiosity how were these bands? Did you usually play with other indiepop bands?
Blood Red Roses, as you may have guessed were a local Goth band, they were friends of ours from the music scene, and lovely guys to play a gig with.
We played a few other gigs with indie pop bands such as The Big Gun, who had an indie hit with Heard About Love, which is possibly one of the best indie pop songs ever. The tambourine player from the band, Andrew O’Hagan, is now a novelist and recently wrote a book, Mayflies, which is partly about what it was like to be in a band / musical gang back in 1986. We also played a gig in the nearby town of Ayr with The Close Lobsters.
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Our best gigs were the club nights at Kilmarnock’s Vikki’s Nite Club, many of our friends were there and there was a great atmosphere. Dave Dunsmore once accidentally smashed a stage light with the end of his bass guitar as he turned around to talk to his sister, who was behind the drums. Rock and Roll. He has yet to throw a television out of a hotel window, there’s still time for him to do this.
At the beginning of the very first live SF gig, I was quietly confident and relaxed because I thought that nobody would be bothering to pay any attention to us, but when we finished the first song (Steaming Train, by Talulah Gosh) there was a genuine and quite loud rush of clapping and cheering from a group of punters who had approached the front of the stage while I was busy looking at my fretboard. After that, I became quite nervous. It was quite the buzz.
++ And were there any bad ones?
I must have blocked them out, lol.
++ When and why did The Sherbet Fountains stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards? I remember The Search Engines I think?
Ally T and Maggie went off to University towards the end of 1988 (I think) so that put the kibosh on the Sherbets musical career. Gordon went off to Art School. Me and Dave Dunsmore started up The Spaceheads immediately. Gordon would play the drums with the Spaceheads whenever he was back in town over the Christmas and summer holidays.
The Spaceheads became a musical monster; by the time that we played Dave’s high school graduation party, there were around six of us in the band, there was a new singer, Gordon Harrow, and I was ‘relegated’ to the role of lead guitarist. It was a great gig, for the band anyway. Good times.
Me and Dave kept The Spaceheads going as a duo, even after we both moved up to the city of Glasgow in 1991, still recording on his four track.
++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?
Circa 1989, David joined the Trash Can Sinatras to play the bass. He toured with them and played on most of the songs on the first album. After he left the band, he used the money that he had earned and bought a Yamaha 4-track and an Alesis drum machine. David was, for a short time, in a band called Barflies (with Ally T), at the hight of MySpace he formed Tesco Chainstore Mascara.
Me and Ally T got back together circa 1995 in the band The Stepping Stones. Ally sang and played the trumpet. She is currently in a band called Heist, they have just released a new single.
I’ve been in a few other bands…
The Jaggy Nettles [bass guitar] (1986 / 87)
The Badger Brothers [bass guitar, blues covers] (1986 / 87)
Dilithium Crystals [drums, 60s garage band covers] (1988)
The Spaceheads [guitar / vox, original indie pop material] (1988 to 1992 approx)
My Little Underground [guitar / vox, original shoegaze material] (1990)
Sunburst [guitar / vox, MBV kinda thing] (1991)
The Stepping Stones [guitar / vox, original indie pop material] (1994 to 1997, approx)
The Search Engines [guitar / vox, original indie pop material] (1999 to 2002, approx)
Strawberry Whiplash (circa 2000, still active)
Bubblegum Lemonade (circa 2005, still active)
++ Has there been any The Sherbet Fountains reunion?
Ally T lives in France, Dave and Maggie live in the middle of England, Gordon (final line-up, drums) lives in England. Michael still lives in Kilmarnock. I live in the suburbs of Glasgow which is a forty-minute drive from Kilmarnock.
++ Was there any interest from radio?
I don’t think that we sent any tapes out to radio. We didn’t know that we could. Later on, whenever The Spaceheads would have a gig coming up, we’d post off a new song on a cassette to radio DJ Peter Easton who had a cool show on BBC Radio Scotland, and he’d always play it and mention the gig. Peter was one of the very few guys who championed early releases by The Wake, Boy Hairdressers, BMX Bandits, The Vaselines, The Pastels, etc. Thanks Peter.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
We’d send pictures and gig information to our local newspaper, and usually get a little write up. The trick was to have the press pack delivered to them just at the right time; not so early that they’d forget to put it in, but not so late as to miss the publishing deadline.
++ What about from fanzines?
The Sherbet Fountains once got a write up in the English fanzine Sowing Seeds (issue three). We shared a page with Remember Fun, who were our friends at the time
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
Ally T says, ‘There weren’t highlights for me – it was an ongoing adventure and just brilliant spending time with like-minded people, I guess the Sherbet Fountains was a highlight in my life.’ I agree, creating life-long friendships is the best.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
I love to play Table Tennis, if I had a house big enough, I’d have a large table tennis room in it. To be honest, I’m a ‘good’ player, but I will never be a great player. That whole thing where you make the ball spin in several directions as it flies through the air is beyond my understanding. Top spin and back spin, that’s about my level. The main thing is, though, to learn your opponent’s game, and try not to get beaten by 11 to 0, lol.
I’m a little bit better at Badminton, my technique is to make sure that the shuttlecock is returned at a great hight and as far towards the back of the court as I dare send it; that way my opponent can’t return with a smash shot. I’m really not overly competitive when it comes to sport, I view it as fun and exercise.
I like reading. Fiction books are fun, my favourite Fiction authors are Jasper Fforde and Magnus Mills. but these days, I mostly read musical biographies or musical history. I’m currently just about to finish the book C86 And All That, I’ve enjoyed discovering how Alan McGee pulled all of the early Creation Records roster together. Also, I wasn’t aware how much of a cultural debt we all own to Dan Treacy from the Television Personalities for bringing together the fun of mid-sixties psychedelia and the DIY attitude of punk rock. Thanks Dan.
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
People always say that the music which was being released when they were in their late teens was the best music ever; in my case, it really was, ha! (only joking)
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