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Thanks so much to Richard and Julian for the interview! I wrote about their band Red Money time ago, during the pandemic. A few weeks ago Richard got in touch and that was great, I was always curious about Red Money. Even though they have a website, I didn’t know that many details about them. So it was fantastic to have a chat!
++ Hi Richard! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?
Richard: Yes. I’m still involved with music. I play the guitar and piano most days and I’ve never really stopped writing songs and pieces of music. Perhaps, as a writer, I’m still on the quest to write the (nearly) perfect song.
Strangely enough, two bands (other than Red Money) that I was involved in years ago have been attracting some interest recently. In 2022, Firestation Records put out an E.P. by Scenes in the City (This Town Should Be Mine FST190). These songs were originally recorded in 1985. The members of this band were me and Clinton Golding (who I wrote My Erstwhile Companion with), Woodie Taylor, Garry Eller (who were both in River Deep, the band that morphed into Red Money) and Maureen Walsh. Maureen is the Mo from Aztec Camera’s Oblivious ‘met Mo and she’s okay’.
Prior to Scenes in the City, Clint and I were in a post-punk band called the Fanatics. In 2022, we featured in a documentary called ‘Are They Hostile’ about Croydon Punk, New Wave and Indie bands. To accompany the film, Damaged Goods Records put out a compilation LP (DAMGOOD579LP). This featured two songs by the Fanatics and in 2023 Sounds of the Suburbs Records put an and EP by the Fanatics. All of this stuff is available on Spotify, YouTube, Amazon etc. In March, after more than 40 years, the Fanatics played a sold-out gig in Croydon supporting the legendary Johnny Moped.
Julian: I’m still involved with music. Some time after moving to Cornwall I wrote some songs again and played a few local gigs with a friend of mine. These days I present an evening radio show; ‘Songs from The Backroom’ on local community radio station Source fm. I also co founded ‘Parklive’ an annual summer festival through the radio station, now in its 11th year.
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?
Richard: I was born in 1960, so I would have grown up listening to the Beatles and the Stones and the Kinks, but also Motown and other American soul music. Plus the music of Burt Bacharach, Dusty Springfield, Scott Walker and anything else that seeped into my brain. Then in the early 1970s I remember seeing T. Rex on Top of the Pops and that was a revelation to me. Soon after, I heard David Bowie and that was pretty life changing. In the mid to late seventies, my school friends and I got really interested in Chuck Berry, Eddie Cochran, Little Richard and other Rock’n’roll artists and became aware of how much of an influence they had been on so many of the artists that I liked.
My first instrument was a Spanish Guitar. I taught myself to play it by trying to copy records, but also by learning Beatles and Rock’n’roll songs through a couple of songbooks that I bought from my local music store. There were a couple of other boys at my school that were interested in music and we formed a band in about 1975 playing Rock’n’roll songs and a few original compositions. I played rhythm guitar in this band (I had bought a cheap Les Paul copy).
Julian: Music entered my life at a very young age, it was in the family… My mum had been a dancer at the Talk of the Town. Her brother was a musician working in Germany and later in the States. Dad worked for Philips Records and at ATV music. There was always music on in the house. Mum had Radio Caroline and later Radio One blaring in the kitchen much to Dad’s irritation…he was more into Modern Jazz. So yeah very similar to Richard; The Beatles, Stones, Kinks route came through Small Faces, Jimi Hendrix and an early memory… Petula Clark’s ‘Don’t Sleep in the Subway” . In 1971, T.Rex Electric Warrior came my way along with Bowie’s Hunky Dory and Roxy Music etc… I also discovered and appreciated harmonies and string arrangements via the singer/songwriters of the day but also craved dirty and noisy guitars. The whole mix was right up my street.
++ Had you been in other bands before Red Money? What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded by these bands?
Richard: As mentioned above, in the late seventies I was in a post-punk/mod/new wave band called the Fanatics. I was the bass player in this band and played keyboards in the studio too. (I taught myself these instruments). When this band came to an end in the early 80s, I was in a duo with the singer from the band called “It’s Tuesday”. We were very influenced by Japan and Ryuichi Sakamoto. At the same time, Clint from the Fanatics and I started writing songs together more influenced by Motown and Northern Soul. In about 1984 this turned into the band “Scenes in the City” with Woodie Taylor on Drums, Garry Eller on bass and Maureen Walsh sharing the vocals with Clint. I was the keyboard player in this band. Maureen left this band and we recorded quite a few songs. Later on, Clint moved on (he and Woodie joined the Friday Club). We recruited a female vocalist and did some pretty good recordings at the Fleetwood mobile studio who gave us free studio time. We had quite a lot of record company interest, but this never came to anything. The female singer left and we advertised for a singer in Melody Maker, which is how Jules got involved. He answered the advert. That band ‘River Deep’ was Jules on vocals, Woodie on drums, Garry on bass, me on guitar, Roz on saxophone and Ollie, who has engineered some of our demos, on keyboards. We played the London circuit, The Fulham Greyhound, Half-Moon Herne Hill etc during the late 1980s. Again, we had record company interest, but nothing came of this. We do have quite a few songs recorded as demos from this period. Red Money came about when we were offered a New Year’s Day gig at the Fulham Greyhound and most of the band couldn’t make it, so Jules and I did it as an acoustic duo.
Julian: I was an in a band called The Glass Factory in the mid-eighties. We troubled the St Albans/ Barnet and South London gig circuit for a while, recorded demos and courted some record company interest. It was in 1988/89 that I met Richard and joined his band as lead vocalist.
++ Where were you from originally?
Richard: I’m from Croydon in South London, where I’ve lived all my life.
Julian: I was born in North Wembley, if the wind was right you could pick up the Spearmint in your nostrils from the Wrigley’s chewing gum factory.
++ How was London at the time of Red Money? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
Richard: We played most of the acoustic music venues in London, The Mean Fiddler and places like the 100 Club, and even places like Ronnie Scott’s. There was lots of live music to see. In Croydon there was Beanos, the largest second-hand record store in Europe and in Central London there were record shops like Sister Ray and Rough Trade.
Julian: Used to go and see bands like King of Fools, Circus x 3, The Johnson Family, The Sullivans. Record shops as above oh and Record and Tape Exchange.
++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?
Richard: The band was me and Jules. We wrote the songs and often played as an acoustic duo. Roz joined us on saxophone for a lot of live shows. Live gigs were often enhanced by other players. For example, Paul Simm played trumpet and keyboards with us sometimes. We met him at RMS studio in Croydon. He engineered some of the Red Money songs and played trumpet and some keyboards on tracks. He was (and still is) a great engineer, producer and musician. He is also a very nice guy and we got really friendly with him. I later worked with him on some film music. Bass player David Levy and drummer Richard Newman played some gigs as did Yvonne Webley on backing vocals.
++ What instruments did each of you play in the band?
Richard: Live I played the guitar and sang backing vocals. Jules did lead vocals and some percussion. In the studio I played guitar and keyboards and programmed the bass and string parts.
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
Richard: One of the great things with being an acoustic duo was that we could rehearse at home. We also put lots of ideas together on a 4-track Portastudio (I still have these tapes).
Julian: Working through early ideas and formulating new songs took place at Richard’s…a creative little hub.
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
Richard: The single was ready to go, the artwork done and we were called Heartland. Then I got a call from a friend saying there was another band with the same name! So, at short notice, we had to come up with another name. I’d be listening to The Lodger album by Bowie a lot and Red Money seemed as good a name as any. Perhaps if we had had longer, we might have come up with something else – but we were happy with Red Money.
++ Your first release came out in 1990. It was the “My Erstwhile Companion” 7″ that came out in P.F. & G Records. Firstly I was wondering about this label. Was it yours? If so, what does the name mean?
Richard: Yes. It was our own label. We thought it would be a Pretty Fab and Groovy idea to have our own label.
++ The songs for the single were recorded in Croydon. Do you remember what studio? And who produced it?
Richard: It was recorded at Backtrack Studio and RMS Studio in Croydon. We produced it ourselves. The two albums we’d been listening to a lot were Eden by Everything But the Girl and High Land Hard Rain by Aztec Camera and I think those sounds were in our heads. Always in my head in terms of production and arrangement were Bowie, Mick Ronson and Tony Visconti.
++ Then it would be cut at Abbey Road. I suppose that wasn’t cheap? Why did you decide to do it this way? Did you have perhaps interest from big labels at the time?
Julian: For some reason the pressing company either had a backlog of orders they were struggling to get through or couldn’t use their usual studio, so we were packed off to Abbey Road instead and used their brand new cutting lathe on the day. A real buzz for us.
++ Afterwards you were to release a new 7″ with “Swerve” on the A side. Pre-production was done with Woodie Taylor who had worked with Morrissey and Comet Gain. How was that experience?
Richard: I’d known Woodie since we were both teenagers and we’d been in a couple of bands together as mentioned above. I worked with him in his studio in his flat in Croydon, using Cubase to programme the keyboards, bass, drums and strings for Swerve, Thicker Than Thieves and Now (it seems) They’re Here. I’m still really good friends with Woodie.
++ But then this record was put on hold. Why?
Richard: We’d had some record company interest and different companies talked about signing us, putting out an album or and EP, but this all come to nothing. So we concentrated on playing live, writing songs and doing some recordings with a fuller sound. This resulted in Me and My Big Mouth, Blaming Himself, The Crying Shame and Take Care of Me, recorded at RMS in Croydon.
++ Then the next question has to be, why weren’t there more records by the band released at the time? Did you have plans for an album perhaps?
Richard: As mentioned above, different companies were talking to us, but regrettably nothing came to fruition.
++ There was a 2015 EP titled “Hard to Believe”. This wasn’t released physically but on digital platforms. Were these new songs? Where was it recorded?
Richard: Hard to Believe was a song we used to play live. I left a Note and I Tried Not to Care were songs that I had written more recently. I had done a lot of the pre-production at home and then we recorded the songs at RMS in Croydon.
Julian: In 2015 we returned to RMS to work once again with engineer Andy Le Vein. His expert ears and excellent supply of digestive biscuits and flapjacks were very welcome one more time.
++ In 2012 the German label Firestation Records reached out to you and offered to release a compilation. It included 14 songs. I wonder then, where do these songs come from? I suppose mostly demo tapes?
Richard: Yes. There were the three songs from the EP and the rest were demos.
++ Speaking of demo tapes, did you release them in any way? Or were they mainly to send to press and labels?
Richard: We didn’t release any other demos. They were mainly used to get record company interest and to send to venues to get gigs. This was in the days before the Internet, MP3s and social media. We relied on sending demos through the post and phoning places up.
++ On the compilation there is a version of “Swerve” called the ‘Adventure Club Mix’. Who made that mix?
Richard: We were asked to play at the Christmas Party for Sister Ray Records. After we had played, someone came up to us and said he’d really enjoyed the songs and had been playing the single on his radio show in the USA, called the Adventure Club. He said he really liked Swerve, so I said we would do a special mix for his radio show. We liked the idea of the shorter version of the song, but we had recorded it with the long outro. So we mixed this and sent it out to the USA for him to play.
++ There are two other songs, “Come and Find Me” and “Take Care of Me” that weren’t included in the retrospective compilation? Why weren’t they included there?
Richard: We had sent Take Care of Me to Firestation, but we thought it was a little out of keeping with the other songs on the compilation. Come On and Find Me was a song that we had first recorded as River Deep, but we used to play it live as Red Money too. This was a mix that we did for the Still Mad at Me box set for Firestation.
Julian: Take Care of Me, I refer to as the ‘everything but the kitchen sink mix’ I remember adding layers and layers of vocal harmonies. I suppose we just wanted to make it as bigger sounding as we could. Richard played some cracking guitar on it.
++ Are there more songs recorded by the band? Unreleased ones?
Richard: Yes. There’s quite a lot of River Deep tracks and unreleased Red Money songs, including different versions of some of the Red Money track that were released.
++ My favourite song of yours is “Thicker Than Thieves”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?
Richard: A lot of the Red Money songs are about the intricacies and complexities of relationships. Sometimes we imagined a particular couple who had been together for years and had gone through lots of ups and downs, but were still together and, despite everything, were devoted to each other. They are probably the same couple that appear in Now (it seems) They’re Here. Musically, it’s unusual because the guitar is tuned slightly differently (the top E string is tuned to a D – we used this tuning on one other song too) which make the chords richer, I think. The song is one of a few that are in waltz timing. The drum pattern is from Five Years by Bowie and Paul plays some lovely trumpet. I think the music adds to the mood of the couple’s story.
++ If you were to choose your favorite Red Money song, which one would that be and why?
Richard: I like all the tracks, but if I had to pick two, I would say My Erstwhile Companion, because that was the track that was the catalyst for everything else. Musically, I was very pleased with the chord progressions in this and the sound of the arrangement. I also really like Swerve, I’m pleased with the jazzy feel and the chord progressions. Jules sings a great vocal and Paul’s trumpet playing is just right.
Julian: Yes, I’d probably have to say My Erstwhile Companion. It seemed so right when we finished recording it and was great to play live.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
Julian: We did gig a fair amount…can’t remember how many.
++ You played many great venues like the Mean Fiddler or the 100 Club. I do wonder though, did you support any bands that you liked or admired?
Julian: We played a few gigs at the Mean Fiddler with Kevin Hewick who came down from his hometown in Leicester, he became a good friend of mine at the time. We also supported punk poet/ musician Patrik Fitzgerald.
++ And what were the best gigs that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Julian: The gig we played in Berlin was sublime, playing to a new audience on the back of this retrospective cd that had just come out. We decided to really stick our necks out and I think it paid off. The other gig that springs to mind is probably the first one we played just acoustically at the Greyhound in Fulham. Somewhat daunting to say the least as the rest of the band had pulled out due to it being the Christmas holidays… but we just strolled on with Roz Bateman (incredible saxophone player) and went to work on a set of stripped down songs. A great reaction from the audience who were hopefully appreciating the real structure of the songs…oh happy day!
++ And were there any bad ones?
Julian: Not that I recall but just the occasional noisy chatter at the bar during the quieter songs which was sometimes off putting, mainly happened at the Mean Fiddler…ssssh!!
++ When and why did Red Money stop making music? Were any of you involved in any other projects afterwards?
Richard: Julian and his wife had a baby and relocated to Cornwall (about 300 miles from London). So, it was geography rather than anything else that brought things to a halt. I had a little film production company and amused myself with writing film music for a few years. I worked with Paul Simm on some of this music.
++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?
Richard: There was some radio play for the single, but we never troubled the world of TV.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
Richard: Nothing much to mention
++ What about fanzines?
Richard: Nothing much to mention. The really big thing for us was when Uwe and Olaf at Firestation showed an interest in 2011/12. There was a bit of press etc for the launch of the CD.
++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
Richard: The whole thing was a blast. And being an acoustic duo meant we had to be ‘on the money’ and support each other more than if we were in a bigger band. It was great to play with so many wonderful musicians and get such positive feedback from so many people. Going out to Berlin in 2012 to play a gig for the launch of the Firestation compilation was very special too.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
Richard: I’ve always been an avid reader and with friends and family go to the cinema, theatre and galleries in London all the time.
++ I’ve been to London many times but I still would love to ask a local. What do you suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?
Richard: There’s so much in London – something for everyone. Just walking around the South Bank or around London Bridge or Farringdon is an entertainment. As well as the well-known tourist things, there are the less well-known places like the John Soane’s museum and the Gilbert and George Foundation. You can eat just about every cuisine from around the world. So I suppose traditional East End Pie and Mash is worth a go.
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
Richard and Julian: Thank you for taking the time to write your blog and your interest in the band.
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