Thanks so much to Richard for the interview! I had written about the Adelaide, Australia, band Rhymes with Fish some time ago. I was surprised by their great sound and I was definitely very curious about finding more information about them. Happily Richard got in touch and was keen in answering all my questions. Without further ado, here are his answers!

++ Hi Richard! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Hi Roque! I’m good, thanks, and I hope you are too. Thanks for your interest in Rhymes with Fish! Getting close to 40 years since we started making music and we are still stoked to be able to play music together and even more stoked that we have an audience however small it is. We have plans to keep making music and are looking forward to whatever comes next.

++ I see there’s a new release called “Behavioural Enrichment”. Care telling me a bit about this new EP with new recordings of your songs from the 80s? This time with Quentin on vocals? Where can one listen to it, and what differences, if any, would you see in the sounds of these recordings compared on how you sounded back then? 

Behavioural Enrichment is 5 songs we wrote back in the 80’s. We used to record songs that were developed enough to start adding them to the set list. I had a Fostex 4 track cassette recorder. Just 2 mics in the rehearsal room, so the sound quality wasn’t good. This was so we wouldn’t forget the song. We had a 30 year hiatus as a band but rediscovered these old recordings and were surprised how much we still liked the songs and how creative and energetic we seemed to be back then. Some songs we had forgotten about completely, so it was like hearing them for the first time. Our vocalist Trevor died young, but the remaining three of us decided in about 2018 we wanted to keep making music. Since then, we have been re-learning these old songs and recording them. Three EP’s so far (Fitzroyalty, Arthouse and now Behavioural Enrichment). The first two had my daughter Lily doing the main vocals, while Behavioural Enrichment has me and Quentin on vocals. You can find them all on Spotify, BandCamp and SoundCloud.

We definitely have a different sound now as Trevor was a unique singer. Also, we can’t play as fast and are slower to learn things lol. We are probably sounding a bit more laid back compared to the excitement and energy we pounded out when we were in our twenties and playing live or jamming.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

I remember the teacher whacking me on the back of my head with a wooden ruler in music classes in Grade 5 and being told to “sing it properly”. I had no idea what I was doing wrong, but it set my singing career back a few decades lol. I also remember listening to AM radio with a reel-to-reel tape recorder plugged in with a finger hovering over “record” in case a song I liked came on. My father was a semi-professional musician when I was younger, and at one point in my early twenties I ended up with one of his old flutes and tooted melodies while my housemate Quentin played guitar. Self-taught. Then Quentin showed me how to play guitar. Then we needed a bass player, so I got one of those. It was harder to learn songs pre-internet. You had to learn them by ear, hoping your instrument was tuned close to concert pitch. Or get sheet music from a music store and half the time it was like what the fuck does this sheet music mean lol. I was a bit dyslexic at the time.

At my childhood home, we had jazz records from my father, a few crooners and pop stuff like Elton John (the whole discography I think) and Supertramp. My first record was the single “Lola” by the Kinks. I don’t think I understood it tbh. I also remember going to my friend’s house aged 14 or so, and his older brother playing a brand new “A Night at the Opera” by Queen real loud on big speakers. I was like well fuck me.

++ Had you been in other bands before Rhymes with Fish? What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded by these bands? 

Rhymes with Fish was the first band for myself, Quentin and Trevor. Ivan was previously drumming in a rock-a-billy cover band.

++ Where were you from originally?

Born and bred in Adelaide, South Australia, like the other guys in the band.

++ How was Adelaide at the time of Rhymes with Fish? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

There was a thriving live music scene in Adelaide when we were playing. In the inner city pubs there were two main types of bands. The metal / power punk bands like Exploding White Mice and Mark of Cain, then the eclectic arty bands that I guess included us and our gig mates “Garages of Desire” and others. We would check out the bands playing at the same venues we used to play in – The Exeter, The Austral, The Centralian, The Woodman’s Inn, The Royal Oak, Limbo Club, Club Foote. Flinders Uni Tavern and Adelaide Uni Bar.

The “go to” record shop for local and alternative bands B Sharp records, who sold our cassette when it came out.

++ Were there any other good bands in your area?

Yep, plenty. The ska band “Strange Tenants” were a popular way to blow off steam. “The Spikes” were a good Adelaide band, with some vinyl out. The bass line on “River of Love” was inspirational. Too many to remember to be honest. In more recent times, Adelaide still produces some great indie bands like the Hard Aches and West Thebarton. The Secondhand Squad is a gem of a band that few have ever heard of, with minimal presence on the internet.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

Trevor and I both studied Biology at Flinders University. Ivan was there too but studying Geography. The Finders Uni Tavern was the place for hanging out and seeing bands and we all knew each other. Trevor was writing poetry. At one point after we had graduated (but not Trevor, another story), Trevor was at my place and we decided to write a song, which became Talk Talk (more about this song below). I guess we wrote some more, and at some point, we recruited Quentin on guitar so we could play them live. Quentin lived in the same share house as me and probably taught me guitar if I think about it. The three of us were playing these songs at parties using a drum machine, me on bass, Quentin on guitar. At one of our more famous parties, we were playing in the lounge room and Ivan was there. He offered to play drums for us going forward, which we jumped on because he was/is a pretty cool guy and was already playing in bands and the drum machine was a pain in the arse.

++ Was there any lineup changes?

Towards the end, Ivan left for Melbourne, and we got Larry K on drums, but soon after Trevor left for Melbourne too and we ran out of momentum and energy. I was writing up a PhD at about that time, had bought a house with my partner and had a kid on the way.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

I remember a pressure, in a good way, to turn up to our weekly rehearsal with “something”. A bit of lyric, a chord progression, or a guitar or bass riff. We would jam out a few ideas and try to turn them into a song. Most often we would have the music forming as an idea, then Trevor would get out his book of poetry and find some words that he could sing along with. We would often get a song together over 1 or 2 rehearsals. That’s why the songs aren’t very sophisticated musically speaking lol. A few times the rest of us would try to write an instrumental, but Trevor would always get his book out and sing something to it and that was the end of that.

Rehearsal night would be a meeting for Asian street food at Hawkers corner, then jamming in the basement of an old warehouse in nearby Hindmarsh. Later, we rehearsed in a band room in an old shop complex in Magill. We all had to chip in $10 or something to pay for the room. The owner lived upstairs and must have been a very patient man.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

There was a gathering in the share house that Quentin and I lived in where a group of people were playing a word game of some sort. Charades perhaps. Alison S. was having a hard time getting a clue for a word, and at one point everyone jumped up and said in unison “Rhymes with Fish!” which seemed amusing at the time. So we took it as the band name. We liked the idea of the confusing interaction when someone asked what the band called, and they thought the name was a riddle. But anyway, it’s the sort of name you regret once it’s too late to change it lol.

++ I am aware of a tape called “Six Songs for Six Dollars” that came out in 1987. It was a cassette album? Or was it a demo tape? Was this your first release?

Yes, it was our one and only self-released recording. It was a cassette of 8 songs sold at gigs and through local independent record stores.

++ Why the name “Six Songs for Six Dollars”? Was that actually the price? Also there were more than six songs on it, right?

Yep, we sold it for $6. I’ve no recollection how we arrived at the name, but the fact that it had 8 songs on it amused us at the time.

++ The tape was recorded mainly live by Tony Elliot in Bartel St. Studios. Why did you take that approach? And how was the experience doing these recordings? Did you enjoy working with Tony? What about the recording studio, was it good?

Tony was a friend of the band via Trevor and ran a high-quality recording studio in the city. He also did live sound for bigger name bands and had a great reputation as a sound engineer. He did live sound for us at the Limbo Club, one of the classier venues in town. We probably couldn’t afford his commercial rates in the studio, but he helped us out by recording us one weekend. It was pre-digital, so it was recorded on 16 (?) track tape. Because of the limited time, we played live with Trevor in a vocal booth. Then there were overdubs for vocals and extra guitar parts and saxophone. I can remember Tony cutting and joining tape by hand to tweak the arrangement for one song! Listening to it again after a few decades when we had it digitized, we were genuinely amazed to hear how tight we played back then. The production quality Tony achieved was outstanding. Decades later it impressed my son Alex, who is an audio engineer himself.

++ And how many copies were made? It seems it is a rare release, right? Mostly sold at gigs and local record stores…

We got a few boxes of cassettes made up. Maybe a couple of hundred tapes? So I guess that makes it rare! A few friends told me they kept them until the tape wore out or their cassette player broke lol. Yep, sold at gigs and local independent record stores. I was able to get the songs digitised off the master tape which I had in my possession for years.

++ On one of the tracks of the tape, “There’s a Hitch”, there’s sax played by Craig Tidswell. Was he from another Adelaide band? Did other guest musicians record for the band?

The enigmatic Craig Tidswell played saxophone and sang in multiple Adelaide bands over the years. He was probably playing in Crabs Cocktail Hour when he dropped into Bartell St to play sax on There’s a Hitch. I think Trevor had arranged for him to swing by. It was late in the day and he strolled in, listened to the track once and did a couple of takes. We gave him a 6 pack of beer as a thank you and he strolled off into the night. His contribution really elevates the track.

We didn’t have any other guest musicians. All our shows were 1 guitar, 1 bass, 1 drum kit.

++ Speaking of recordings, I read that you wrote about 40 songs. How many of them were actually recorded? Were there any other releases during your time?

Prior to Fitzroyalty, there were only the 8 songs on Six Songs for Six Dollars that had been properly recorded.

++ Was there any interest from labels to release your music? Perhaps some big labels?

Not that I can recall. We were self-managed which didn’t do us any favours.

++ When it comes to releases, what would you have liked to release then, an album? an EP? some singles?

We would have settled for any of the above lol.

++ Also, there weren’t any compilation appearances by the band, were there?

Nope.

++ When and why did Rhymes with Fish stop making music? Were any of you involved in any other projects afterwards?

I guess around 1989, our non-music lives started taking precedence, and band momentum was slowing. Ivan left for Melbourne (our interstate “big brother” city) and later Trevor did too. Trevor and Ivan used to hang in Fitzroy, Melbourne which inspired the name of our Fitzroyalty EP.

++ Then there was the reunion in 2018/2019. What made you get back with some of your band members to record again? Did you play live too? 

Quentin and I had kept in touch in the years after Trevor died, but we hadn’t been in touch with Ivan for a while. One day, Quentin bumped into Ivan on the street in Adelaide, and we decided to plan a “long lunch” to catch up and talk about the old band days. We had a great time together and still had the bond that made the band work. I think I fished out of the cassettes from the rehearsals (being the unofficial band archivist) and digitized all I could. Just in time as the cassettes were losing their magnetic coating. We sat around and listened to them and were amazed at our nearly forgotten former life and still thought the songs stood up.

My son Alex owned a recording studio and rehearsal rooms so it seemed a natural progression for the three of us to book a rehearsal room and see what came out. For some of these songs the vocals on the old rehearsal recordings were so indistinct we had to rewrite or make up what we thought Trevor was singing. We didn’t have the lyrics written down anywhere. We were all pretty nervous and a bit rusty, but we pulled together a couple of songs and it felt good to be making music again. Eventually, we set our sights a bit higher and decided to ask Alex to record some songs for us which led to the 2018 Fitzroyalty session. Three songs recorded over a weekend.

In 2021 we did a 2 gig weekend with our old mates “Garages of Desire”. They were still playing together too. It was great. One at the Arthur Arthouse, one at the Grace Emily Hotel. We were humbled that people came out to see us. It was in the middle of COVID so it we were lucky to pull it off with lockdowns and travel bans here and there that year,

++ So you put out a digital EP in 2018 with re-interpreted songs from back in the day. It was called “Fitzroyalty” and had three songs, Verisimilitude”, “Kitchen Window” and “Can We Make Money Out of It”. Were these songs never recorded previously? And also why did you pick specifically these three?

Nope, never recorded before. We chose them by consensus, like a lot of decisions in the band. I guess they connected with each of us in some way and for the first two, they were songs we had forgotten that we had written and there was the pleasure in rediscovering them. “Can We Make Money Out of It” was a song that was always a jam playing live, and never came out the same way twice. Quentin and I swapped instruments for this song, usually at the end of our set. The other day I put together a Spotify Artist playlist of Friends and Influences for the band. It included “Money go Round” by the Style Council and in retrospect the obvious influence of this song on “Can We Make Money Out of It” is a bit embarrassing to be honest lol.

++ Then in 2019 came “Arthouse” another EP with three songs. Were the songs on this EP also old songs being re-interpreted? Or were these new songs?

Also old songs from our 1980’s rehearsal tapes re-interpreted. When we run out of songs to re-record, we better write some new ones 😊. We still have quite a few unrecorded songs to go and are looking forward to choosing another 5 or so to re-record.

++ My favourite song of yours is “Talk Talk”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Well, thanks. Talk Talk was the very first Rhymes with Fish song, so maybe it was all downhill from there lol. I remember it was Trevor and I sitting on a couch in a share house, I guess in 1985 or 86. He had a book of poetry that he had written, and I had the Fostex 4 track to record on. There was a drum rhythm from a Roland TR-101 drum machine. I noodled some chords on an electric guitar, Trevor sang one of his poems to it. Bass and lead guitar were added and we had a song in an hour or so. I guess, judging by the equipment I had, I was attempting to write songs by myself before then with limited success. But that day something clicked, and we just banged a song out to our collective surprise.

The story in the lyrics is probably a homage to a woman that Trevor was fascinated with at the time.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Rhymes with Fish song, which one would that be and why?

Practically every song we wrote as a band, we would be stoked about it on the spot and excited to add to the set list. Then we would jam up another song and be stoked about that and so the cycle repeated. But my favourite now? It might be “The Getaway” from “Six Songs for Six Dollars”. This song started as a bit of a joke that the chord progression should be the alphabet – the major chords from A to G in order. Knowing more music theory now, this idea is ridiculous. But the song worked and it would take someone like Rick Beato or Kirk Hamilton to explain why we could bust so many rules and get away with it. It also tells the story of a good friend of the band, Carl A. who did indeed dig himself an impressive pond. It’s classic jangle guitar pop Rhymes with Fish

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? 

We played a lot of gigs! Maybe 3 or 4 or 5 times a month for 3 years. Inner city pubs and clubs that Adelaide locals may remember, The Exeter, The Austral, The Centralian, The Royal Oak, Limbo Club, Club Foote. Flinders Uni Tavern and Adelaide Uni Bar.

++ And what were the best gigs that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

The most memorable gigs were a semi-residency we had for the graveyard shift at Club Foote. It was on a weeknight and started at 2am. The crowd was a mixed assortment, but given they were in the city at 2am most were drunk or high. But it paid well, $250 for the band in the 1980’s was very good money. Club Foote may have had revenue streams that were a bit questionable. I think I used to go to bed, then set a 1am alarm for the gig. Then go to work the next day. It was the sort of madness only musos in their mid-twenties would contemplate.

++ And were there any bad ones?

In the beginning, we stank to be honest. I have tapes to verify that lol. I recall one gig on Hindley St, the roughest part of town, where the only audience was my Mum and Dad lol. We turned the corner when a woman called Caroline offered to mix the sound for us during a gig at the Royal Oak Hotel. We had been attempting to mix ourselves up until then which is sub-optimal to say the least. She was studying sound mixing somewhere and needed the practice. We cut our takings 5 ways with her and she mixed for us for a couple of years. Wherever you are now Caroline, thank you. At the end, we were a pretty tight unit and pulling crowds. Our sound was probably helped by the arrival of affordable electronic guitar tuners about that time, because tuning by ear in a noisy pub was not easy.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? I read that MMM did give you some promotion? What about TV?

Yes, we had a DJ called Bill from one of the big commercial FM stations as a fan, and he played some songs from “Six Songs” on the FM radio. But our main support was the local community radio station MMM (now DDD). They had a chart based on listener requests, and I one point I remember looking at it and the top ten include a couple of Rhymes with Fish songs alongside names like Prince and Talking Heads. That was pretty mind-blowing. At one point MMM had a fundraising gig at the radio station and we played a 10 song set live to air. There is a recording and some video of that night that is probably good enough quality to put on Youtube at some point come to think of it.

No TV appearances for us, although we did make a video clip for a song called Lollyland. I don’t think it was widely circulated because TV was the only outlet before the internet. That video is “lost” inside a busted VHS tape.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

The main role of the main city newspaper (The Advertiser) back then was to publish a gig guide on Thursdays. You had to ring up and get your gigs for the week in there or you were cooked. There were hundreds of gigs for any given week (possibly an exaggeration). Not a lot of coverage of independent bands in this paper, but we did get covered a bit in the student campus newspapers.

++ What about fanzines?

I don’t recall them being a thing in Adelaide at the time. We might have wound up gigging just before the start of the Adelaide institution “Rip it Up” magazine.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

For me? Finding a group of people that allowed our collective creativity to flourish. It’s a very rare opportunity that not everyone gets.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

I am lucky enough to be at the fart around stage of my life lol. A good day might include one or more of the following: coffee in the sun, a bit of time on the sea riding wind or waves, doing a bit of work, a bit of exercise, a bit of community work, a bit of music and hanging out with family and friends.

++ I’ve never been to Adelaide s0 I’d love to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

Adelaide is a city of about 1 million people. For USA readers, it’s probably got the climate of LA, the wineries of Napa Valley in its surrounding hills and it is pretty left leaning politically like say Seattle. It’s a UNESCO City of Music. Visitors like to check out the beaches, restaurants and wineries. For local cuisine, I’m going to mention a favourite of punters after gigs back in the 80’s – a pie floater from one of the pie carts in the city centre. A bowl with an upside-down meat pie covered in pea soup and tomato sauce. Eaten standing up at the pie cart window. Went down well after midnight when the pubs and venues had closed. Not sure where you would get one today tbh.

I’ll also mention another Adelaide culinary quirk from the 80’s. There was a legal requirement that alcohol could only be served with a meal after a certain time. So many of the music venues would put out a table of paper plates, each with a single lettuce leaf, a tiny bit of tomato and maybe a piece of cheese. This was the “meal”, and it was free for the punters at the gig. Some of them even got eaten when the punters got hungry enough lol.

In modern times, there are plenty of really good restaurants and eateries that could tempt a visitor. We have had waves of immigration that have positively influenced our cuisine. Did I mention the wine? That is one of our things.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

The indie music scene has always been about real people making music for real fans telling stories from their shared lives. Punching up, not down. I’m grateful I was able to be a small part of it. I think the next generation of indie musos will find a way forward even though the music landscape is changing rapidly and it’s hard to make a buck as a band. Many of the social issues we used to sing about are still issues. Not good, but you got keep positive and be the best activist you can. Hopefully music continues to help people find their tribe.

Finally, given the volume I have written, I hope you’re not regretting giving an older musician a chance to talk about the good old days. It’s hard to make us stop lol.

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Listen
Rhymes with Fish – Talk Talk