Thanks so much to Paul Den Heyer for a new interview! Many years ago I interviewed Paul about his terrific band Politburo and that was really exciting. Today we talk about the band that came after, Fishmonkeyman, that got more success, especially with their single “If I’ve Told You Once”. But that’s not all, if you can check out Paul’s new music, as he released a new album on the great A Turntable Friend Records! Now sit back and enjoy the interview!
++ Hi Paul! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you?
No worries, I’m well thanks! Trying to keep busy and stay sane in lockdown. These are strange times. Hope all is good with you!
++ Last time we chatted it was about your previous band, Politburo. Was Fishmonkeyman formed immediately after Politburo? Or perhaps there were some music projects in between?
Well, Politburo were actually making a great noise before we called it a day and so it was a no brainer for drummer Carl Henry and myself to keep playing together and find the right people to move forward with. I remember we had a lot of different friends over to our practice room before we settled with Allan Sadler on guitar and Jason Orr on bass. It felt a very natural chemistry and new songs came very quickly.
++ And how would you compare both bands? Were there any similarities?
From 1982 onwards, Politburo had been a 3 piece, like The Jam, and an extra guitarist certainly changed the dynamic. Jason also had a unique style and with his bass – really filled out the sound sonically – so this allowed me to switch to acoustic guitar. I was playing my acoustic a lot at that time anyway, particularly for coming up with song ideas.
We actually did our first gigs as Politburo and one or two as Pindrop before settling on Fishmonkeyman as a name. One of my favourite early gigs was supporting McCarthy (who I still think of as the best indie band of all time). We were big fans and that was so nice to do.
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?
I remember the Beatles being on the family black and white TV and, apparently, I was fascinated by them even as a toddler. Even before I could talk or walk I would sing along.
My first instrument was a cornet which I learned in school at about 8 years old. Played that badly in the school orchestra and later in a brass band but by senior school, I’d given that up.
My first guitar was a horrendous Spanish thing that was really hard to play but I persevered with it and eventually, when my fingers toughened up and my parents realised I was serious, a cheap, used Zenta electric guitar was found for me. This, along with an old reel to reel tape machine my uncle gave me, opened up a whole new world. I remember filling many tapes with endless distortion and noises, playing the sounds backwards and forwards for hours on end in my room.
Downstairs the radiogram was full of my older brother and sisters 7″ singles. The Beatles, The Stones, The Searchers, Tamla Motown. The only albums of interest to me were Abbey Road and copy of Peter & The Wolf. These I wore out as a child.
++ You mentioned me that you had been in a band called Dead On Arrival before Politburo. What other bands had you been in? Were there all of them pop bands?
Aside from playing with friends for fun, my first proper gig was at Eric’s nightclub in Liverpool with a band called TV12 (they’d go on to become This Final Frame). It was a pretty eclectic affair. Paul Skillen, the main songwriter, was into all sorts – reggae, funk, pop – but we went on to do lots of local gigs together and I even wrote a song with the band. ‘I am just a piece of your food’ – a trashy 3 chord punk vibe. The gigs were fun and I learned a lot but, after discovering punk and listening to Joy Division and Magazine, I felt I wanted to do something different. Dead On Arrival was that something different. Basically, it was just young friends making music together and enjoying playing live. I’m gutted we never made any records but we did record a John Peel session in 1981 which I’m proud of and we got to play a load of gigs and support Killing Joke 🙂
++ Where were you from originally?
I’m from Moreton on the Wirral, across the Mersey from Liverpool but I am half dutch. And with all this Brexit bollocks going on here, I’m feeling more and more dutch by the day 🙂
++ Were you still based in Wirral at the time of Fishmonkeyman? so how was your town at the time? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
Yes, and I’m still in Moreton now. It’s a small town and Liverpool is the nearest place with record stores, live music etc.. I loved the Bunnymen and Teardrop Explodes and, in the 90s, Shack were amazing. It’s certainly a musical city!
++ And what other bands had the Fishmonkeyman band members been in? I noticed a few were in 35 Summers, right?
1988-91
Carl Henry – Drums (ex- This final Frame)
Jason Orr – Bass and Vocals
Allan Sadler – Guitar
with myself on Vocals, Guitar
Allan left after our Radio One session in 1989 and was replaced on guitar by
Ken Hancock (ex- Jegsy Dodd & The Sons Of Harry Cross)
1993-97
Terry Lloyd – Bass (ex- Joanna)
Alan Currie – Drums (ex- Candy Opera & 35 Summers)
Ian Greenwood – Guitar (ex- 35 Summers)
with myself on Voice, Guitar
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
Both line-ups practised a lot at Crash Studios, Liverpool. John & Mark who ran the place were really supportive.
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
I wrote a song called Fishmonkeyman in 1985 while still in Politburo although we never played it. I always liked the title and thought it was unusual. I liked the evolution concept and when we needed a name, I suggested it and we all liked it.
++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
Difficult to answer as we all loved different things. I guess The Chameleons, McCarthy, Pink Floyd, House Of Love were common ground for us all and are things I hear now listening back. Probably a little Stone Roses too as I was hammering that first album when it came out and as the band came together.
++ One thing that definitely must be different for you and your previous bands is that you signed to Warner Music with Fishmonkeyman. How did that happen? Did you provide them demos? Did they scout you at gigs?
We were showcasing for lots of record labels in 89/90 here in Liverpool. All the major labels were looking for the ‘next big thing’ and their attention shifted from Manchester to Liverpool. A BBC session for Radio One’s Richard Skinner helped a lot and we were playing live constantly – there was quite a buzz.
++ And how was your relationship with the big label? Did you like it?
In all honesty, it was difficult. I certainly didn’t like it. Yes, it’s nice to know your music is being distributed, promoted properly etc. but it comes at a cost. All good when things are going well, a different story when they aren’t.
++ Your first release though, the “If I’ve told You Once” EP, has two labels releasing it, Furious Fish Records and Warner Music. Can you explain this to me? Who were Furious Fish?
Back then, major labels had demo budgets so they could help develop bands they liked. A great guy called Cally worked A & R at East West. He came up to Liverpool a few times to watch us play (he was keen on us and a great new band from Oxford called Ride) and he gave us sound advice and £1000 to go in the studio with as he wasn’t in a position to sign us himself.
Martin Poole (who’d later become our manager) heard the recordings and wanted to release them as an EP. Martin released it through SRD independently on his Furious Fish label and after a stroke of luck, meeting up with a record plugger, we went from getting no press or radio play one week to being media darlings the next. Radio One were playing If I’ve Told You Once a dozen times a day and we were Single Of The week in Melody Maker with a feature in NME and Sounds. It really all happened very quickly. The offers came flooding in and we decided to go with Warners who allowed us to keep our label name. They basically just repressed our original EP and made 7″ and CD versions of it.
++ The title song even got a promo video made. Was wondering if you could tell me where was it filmed? How long did it take to put together? And was it the first time making a promo video? Were there any other promo videos by any chance?
The video was filmed at The Cosmos Club in Liverpool in an afternoon. Was the band’s first proper video shoot. The director PK McGuigan totally got what we were about and I think the video works well. He also made a promo for ‘Breathing’, the follow up single a few months later. Sadly, I lost my VHS copy of that so can’t see it again. That was filmed on Southport beach, the Peak District and a disused warehouse in town over 2 days.
++ The artwork for your singles, especially your first couple of ones, is very unique. Who was in charge of the looks and the aesthetics of the band?
Our first manager, David Eversley, showed us a polaroid of the image and we loved it straight away. It was a painting by Mary Mathieson, so he contacted her and struck a deal. The Breathing cover was done by Louise Poole, our second manager’s wife, keeping a similar style. I love them both.
++ The releases came in so many different formats. But the one I am curious about is the single sided 10″ Breathing that came out on the Hit Factory label. It was even single-sided. What’s the story of this release?
Ah, that wasn’t a release, it was an acetate that somehow got out of the cutting room. It’s funny, I only heard about it recently when it came up for sale on Discogs. I bought it for posterity 🙂
++ You worked with some great producers like Pat Collier or Dave Dix. How was that experience? What did they add to the band’s sound?
We loved working with both of them. We 100% trusted them to get our sound. Was a total pleasure and great to learn from watching and listening to them work. I certainly wouldn’t have got into production without that experience.
++ Lastly that year, 1991, which looks as your most prolific you released another 7″, “Vote for Us”. Was this just a promo 7″? Or was it available to fans in any ways?
Sadly, it never got a full release by Warners, same with the ‘Gryst’ album. We were pretty devastated. It was limited to promo copies. It really felt like the end of our 15 minutes of fame. Particularly after selling a lot of copies of the first 2 singles. If we’d stayed independent, both would have been number one in the indie charts for weeks.
++ Your next release, the “Seven Monkeys in a Tree”, came out on the label Groovey Cardboard which I am assuming it was a self-release? How was the transition of being in a big label and then releasing a record on your own? Did you enjoy doing label work? promoting? distributing?
When Warners decided not to release the album, things fell apart. It had been an intense year of ups and downs. Everyday, we had spent together either recording, touring, going on radio or tv, none of us were happy in ourselves. Nerves were frayed to say the least and that was the end of chapter one really as we went our separate ways.
In 1992, I took a year out to write and demo new songs and, when it was time to play live and record, I looked around for new musicians to work with. There were enough funds left to make a 12″ EP and we self-released Seven Monkeys In A Tree in 1993. For me, it was all just about having fun again after the disappointments of the previous year. It really was like starting over.
++ And then you signed to Copasetic Records and with them you’d release two cd singles, “Sunshine Down” and “The World Revolves Around You”. Who were behind this label? And how did you end up working with them?
Copasetic was run by a nice chap called Mike Plumley who used to work for Radio Caroline. He was a friend of Martin Poole who continued to manage the new band. He was keen to work with us and we felt his knowledge of PR and radio would help, given his label was an indie. Both releases were well-received and we were happy to continue playing live across the UK to promote them.
++ And are there any unreleased tracks by the band? Are there more recordings, perhaps in demo form?
Lots of live and demo recordings and different mixes exist.
++ In 2009 a different version of the “Gryst” album was released digitally bu Unshelved Records. What is this release? Why the different tracklist?
Haha. This wasn’t really an official release, more a result of people asking me for copies of the album all the time. I put a simple cover together and burned a few CD-Rs just so folks could hear it. I shuffled the tracklist after so many moaned the original version of If I’ve Told you Once wasn’t on it.
++ Has there been any plans to re-release the band’s music?
Funnily enough, my current record label, A Turntable Friend Records, asked about doing a Fishmonkeyman release. I started going thru old DATs and digging out press clippings and photos but then Covid 19 hit. Hopefully, it’s something that could still happen once things return to normal 🙂
++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “If I’ve Told You Once”, which I believe you are the subject of the song! wondering if you could tell me what’s the story behind it?
The chords kind of plopped out one afternoon when i was playing my guitar at home. The words and melody came together just as quickly and it sounded great first time we played all it together. For me, it was just another song and it wasn’t until we were mixing it with Dave Dix at RAK studios in London that I realised it was a cracker. I’ve never really thought about the words but you could be right there. I try to be a private person but can’t help chattering away and opening up, thinking out loud a lot of the time, sometimes with the wrong person. It’s something I don’t like about myself and it continues to get me into trouble to this day.
++ If you were to choose your favorite Fishmonkeyman song, which one would that be and why?
I always had a soft spot for Crazies off that first EP. I remember grinning ear to ear listening back to Ted De Bono mixing it at Maida Vale Studios for the Richard Skinner session. It always felt a very natural song to perform and we’d mostly open our live shows with it.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
Many, many
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Playing at The Marquee in London was a special one. Played well that night. I remember the Buzzcocks being amused at us nearly getting barred from The Columbia Hotel for smoking a teapot in the lobby. Don’t ask!
++ And were there any bad ones?
Occasionally, but I’ve shut them out of my memory 😉
++ When and why did Fishmonkeyman stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?
Well they say lightning doesn’t strike twice! We completed the ‘This Is Where You Are’ album in 1997 for Copasetic Records and they weren’t in a financial position to release it properly. Cue digging out the CD burner again so friends could at least hear it. Somewhat disheartened, I hung up my guitar, discovered underground house music and started DJing – but that’s another story.
It was only in 2012, when I started working with Sunstack Jones that I began enjoying indie music again. I’ve since produced 4 LPs and a dozen singles for them. I was also happy to contribute to (my old friend from The Chameleons) John Lever’s Red-sided Garter Snakes project along with members of Puressence, Inspiral Carpets and Bauer. I even started writing again after a 20 year break and produced my own album ‘Everything So Far’ for A Turntable Friend Records in Germany.
++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?
From the first line-up, I know Carl and Ken went on to play in Half Man Half Biscuit and Carl is still doing that.
From the second line-up, Alan resumed playing with Candy Opera, Ian Greenwood is producing music still and Terry plays in a Widnes-based band The Chimps and also in Supergiant. He played bass for me on ‘Everything So Far’ and is also involved in my next release.
++ Has there been any Fishmonkeyman reunion?
Nah
++ Was there any interest from radio?
Yes, Radio One was playing ‘If I’ve Told you Once’ a dozen times a day for about a month.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
Yes, Single of the week in Melody Maker and great reviews in NME and Sounds.
++ What about from fanzines?
Lots in 1991, our 15 minutes of fame 🙂
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
No one thing for me. The other members might have a more interesting answer.
Maybe the day The Cure unexpectedly turned up at the studio and Jason and I were under the snooker table playing marbles with the balls like a pair of kids? Me happily snoozing on The Big Chair (the Tears For Fears one)?
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
I follow Liverpool FC and Boston Red Sox, enjoy bingeing the odd nordic noir or sci-fi series and I like beer and good food 🙂
++ Never been to Wirral, so would love to hear from a local, was wondering if you could recommend any sights, record stores, traditional food or drinks that one shouldn’t miss?
It has the largest population of horses per person and also has both the most affluent and socially-deprived areas within it’s bounds. It’s an odd place but for a long time, and for the present, it’s home.
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
Just to say thanks Roque for letting me yap on. Bless you x
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