Thanks so much to Sandy Fyfe for the interview and support!

++ Greenheart formed after two early incarnations, the first one being The Electric Sugar Children. Tell me a bit about this band, when was it formed, who were the members and if you had any releases? maybe demo tapes that one day will pop up on ebay?

I had been in a band called The Firemouths which had played a few gigs, and little brother Edd started writing some tunes. The Firemouths came to an end as people moved away and so Edd and I formed The Electric Sugar Children (named after a Biff Bang Pow! Song).

We borrowed drummer Kenny McEwan from another brotherly Perth band, The Seaniks, and encouraged Gogs to buy a bass guitar, and hey, we had a new band. We then added Paul Sutherland to sit cross-legged at front of stage and peel off mis-spelt cards of each and every lyric, a la Subterranean Homesick Blues. Our first gig was in Biancos in Perth.

We never recorded under this name. At this stage, we were very much a Jesus & Mary Chain influenced band (we covered You Trip Me Up), and it was not long before we wanted to develop the sound………

++ The second incarnation was called Pure. Why did you started a new band? What were the main differences between The Electric Sugar Children? Tell me about those “purezines” you released!

….which led to the recruitment of David Barnett as a second guitarist, and Paul Sutherland disappearing from card-peeling duties, and a name change. We had a song called Impure and I liked the idea of the band name Pure….we were trying to become less gimmicky and concentrate on the music a bit more. David added backing vocals and the addition of the second guitar added much to the sound.

This was a real busy period for us gigging much more, recording a couple of demos, publishing Purezines, being interviewed on radio, and printing badges. The demos were recorded in Seagate Studios in Dundee, and were as follows :

Demo 1, summer 1990 –
1. Panama City – an upbeat wah-wahed guitar tune about sunshine and Demerara sugar (don’t ask!)
2. Stephanie – a twee little pop song
3. Velvet – a slow moody burner about rock n roll, and fame

Demo 2, March 1991 –
1. Underfoot – a jangly pop song about prejudices over the Irish struggle in Scottish society
2. Summer Heat-Wave Heat – you can hear this on our myspage page so I won’t attempt to describe it!
3. Velvet – we re-recorded velvet, with the guitars more distorted and dreamy

There was a huge development between our first and second visits to the studio.

Things were going well, playing regularly (at the time I was also running The Oblivion Club in Perth which brought many indiepop bands to town including Jesse Garon & the Desperadoes, The Driscolls, Mousefolk, Remember Fun, The Wildhouse and many more) so we were well connected to get gigs.

We were then asked to contribute to a compilation LP on Ambition Records, Bobby Stokes Salutes the Fall of Manchester, indie bands covering Manchester bands songs, and we recorded Joy Divisions/New Orders’ Ceremony, using a different studio and we were not too happy with the result, though it did have its moments!!

The Purezines were A5 fanzines of what we had been up to, set lists, family tree, etc. We charged 20 pence for a purezine and a badge!

++ After these two bands you change your name to Greenheart. What year was it? Who were Greenheart and why the name? Also any releases to look for? Information is quite scarce on the web!

Pure were going along great but I made a huge error of judgement about this time. A few of the band members were wanting to do other things as well as Pure, and I said people had to be committed to it, and make a decision, and so everything fell apart.

However we had been offered a single release by German label, Bilberry, and to contribute tracks to a compilation being put together by Snowy Pete and so Edd and I, started again, adding Mal on bass and guitars, and my then girlfriend Lisa on piano/organ, retaining Kenny, myself and Edd.

We wanted to denote the change in personnel and so altered the name. I was a huge fan of the poetry of Alan Jenkins, and my favourite individual poem was called Greenheart, and so that was agreed as a good name. Everyone should track that poem down and read it!

++ What is this Fuzzy Peach compilation about that you talk on your brief bio on myspace?

We returned to Seagate and recorded Transatlantic, Hey Sure Shakespeare and Lucky Always and sent them off to Pete to choose two tracks – and he chose Lucky Always to open side 1 of the comp and Hey Sure Shakespeare to open side 2 (it was a 10 track compilation).

According to Pete who I saw recently, people were actually dancing to Hey Sure Shakespeare when he played it at an indie club night!!!

++ How was the Perth scene those days? One of my favourite bands was from there: This Poison! Any other bands that you’d recommend?

The scene was great. All of the bands drunk in the same pubs. No two bands were filling a similar space in terms of style. This Poison! were the pick, but Aspidistra also did very well, I shared a flat with the singer in our big rivals, The Ralf, and it was right opposite the main gathering place for musicians at the time, The Grill pub. Every weekend the party was at ours, and all the bands at that time partied in our flat from time to time. The Relations had gone baggy and were in the lower reaches of the UK singles chart, and Greenland Haze gigged extensively with their REM style. The aforementioned Seaniks continued to gig, and there was an ambitious band Best Care Anywhere who we gigged with too. And of course Luke Sutherland’s Long Fin Killie. Happy days indeed.

++ Also you say that you were called the enfants terrible from the Perth scene! what did you do?

I am so embarrassed when I look back!

We had a great rivalry with the Ralf, and at one time started a chant ‘I’d rather be a Sugar Child than a Ralfette’ and that became a thing every indie kid in town was one or the other – a Sugar Child or a Ralfette. Despite Graeme and I being flatmates and friends our bands were arch rivals. Our bass player, Gogs, was quite infatuated with Graemes girlfriend at the time, and that did not exactly make things any easier!!

In addition, we showed no respect to the older guys still peddling their music, we strutted around in our leather trousers with attitude and swagger to match! I remember playing a gig supporting The Relations, who had been on television that week playing their baggy stuff. They were in the crowd as we played. I was introducing the fact that they would be playing after us, someone in the audience shouted something not too complimentary about them, and I retorted ‘clearly someone has seen them before’ and we launched into our next song. There was a wee bit of hassle after that between us, and recently I was discussing the Go-Betweens with Gerry, singer of The Relations, and he said to me, ‘it’s a shame we have spent 20 years disliking eachother as we actually love the same music’ We are now good buddies. That’s what is great about music – the friends you make.

We also sprayed homebrew beer all over Dek Moir of This Poison! on one occasion – it’s a long story!

So we were always up to some mischief or other and when we were the large figure of our bass player Gogs would never be far from the action!!

++ I read you gigged all around Scotland, did you ever went south to England maybe? Which particular gigs do you remember the most and why?

We never unfortunately ventured south as a band, although most members have subsequently played gigs in England.

The three most memorable gigs for me would be :

1. The Red House, Coupar Angus – we were supporting Best Care Anywhere in this rural village. There was a good crowd in to see the Tom Petty/REM-inspired Best Care Anywhere. They had not expected nor ever before encountered feedback drenched indie pop and sneering attitude. I think to say we left them speechless would be true. That was the most drunk we had ever been when playing, consuming more vodka jellies than I care to remember before the gig.

2. The Halt Bar, Glasgow – supporting The Driscolls. The excitement of playing in Glasgow for the first time was great, and it was fantastic to be playing to an audience who actually all were through and through indie pop kids.

3. The West Port Bar, Dundee – a day for unsigned acts put on by the local radio station. Perth and Dundee have a fierce rivalry as cities, being just 20 miles apart. All the bands were Dundee bands except us. We always closed with a track called What She Said in ’67, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, chorus, followed by several minutes of a wall of noise with vocalist writhing front of stage and yelping the odd spontaneous lyric into the mic. We played it at the end of the gig as usual, and it was just our greatest ever version of that song, and that song was I suppose our trademark at the time.

++ What was the biggest highlight of Greenheart? How easy or difficult was to have a band with your brother?

The best thing is undoubtedly that 20 years on we are all still friends, we all still have passion for music, and a mutual respect for one another.

I think our recording of Lucky Always was our finest moment (to date!); it was certainly at the time the best lyric I had written in my opinion. And the feedback from those that got Fuzzy Peach was excellent.

Also getting back in the studio last year to record She is Forever for the Doing it for the Kids 08 compilation was fantastic – it was a day full of emotion, and fun though a departure from our usual style.

Edd and I get on great, so being in a band together was not too tough – Gogs the bass player is my best friend in the world but he is much more difficult to handle than little brother!!!! Edd and I are two brothers who will always to some extent make music together I think.

++ Do you still follow indiepop? If so, what differences or similarities do you find between the early nineties and today?

Oh yes! Indiepop is forever in our hearts.

I am as likely to be listening to The Pains of Being Pure at Heart or Ballboy, as I am The Chesterfields or Mighty Mighty. All of us have broadened our tastes since then but still appreciate indiepop, and I like a lot of the new bands and thanks to labels like Cloudberry they get a medium to release some good stuff. When I put together charity CD Doing it for the Kids 08, after my daughter had been seriously ill in hospital, it was great to find so many good young indiepop bands willing to contribute to the project.

I think there are clear influences today – early Orange Juice and early Aztec Camera, Subway bands, Sarah Bands – are all influencing output. I think right now indiepop is probably stronger than it has been at any point since the late 80s and early 90s. Its great to see some of the old bands coming back and playing again. I think the key difference is that the current crop of indiepop bands have more diversity to their sound than the older generation.

Two of my 5 year old daughters favourite songs are Goodbye Goodbye by The Chesterfields and In the Rain by The June Brides – I am bringing her up well!!

++ Why did you call it a day? What are Greenheart members doing nowadays?

We stopped playing because life got in the way a bit. Edd went to university in Wales. I had the misfortune to be good at my job and so started building a career (its like that Razorcuts song, Mile High Towers!) And everyone drifted apart for a bit. We are all now back in touch though, and practising again, and recorded last year and Edd and I have written some new songs. [I have emailed a very rough demo of one of them called Counting (Up Not Down)]

Sandy (jaf) – still in Perth, huge music enthusiast, back writing songs with Edd

Edd – lives in London, back writing songs and practising and playing some small solo gigs

Kenny – also lives in London; toured the world with Long Fin Killie for a bit – back in touch with us all just very recently

Gogs – lives in London – joined Aspidistra who were NME ones to watch at one time, and who released a few singles – still very good friends with Edd and I, and we regularly go and see bands together

David – worked with the Suede fanclub and management, and wrote the authorised biography of Suede. Still playing music with a few bands including the New Royal Family, and also lives in London.

Mal – moved to Norway, played bass on a no 1 hit single, now back living in Perth.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

We want to record our legacy – a few days in the studio and one final blast of indiepop. We have learned much over the years and think we can still have the raw energy and sound, the meaningful lyrics, the passion, the DIY ethos, but with a bit of a broader sound. So if anyone reading this wants to put out a single or an EP, get in touch as we will be recording real soon!!

We adored playing live and want to try to do that again too.

Finally, thanks to you Roque, for asking us to participate and having an interest in what we do but most of all, for keeping the homefires of indiepop burning. Indiepop is an old friend, and some nights its great to come home to. Giving so many good bands some exposure, as you have done, has been fantastic and its good to see some of those bands beginning to gain wider exposure – I hope they all remember you!

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Listen
Greenheart – Transatlantic
Pure – Summer Heat-Wave Heat

Thanks so much to John Parkes for the great interview!

Note from John: I met up with Rob (the original Greenhouse bass player) to talk about some of these questions – so this is as accurate as we’re likely to get!

++ When and how did Greenhouse formed? Maybe all of you were studying at Leed University? Who were the original lineup?

Not as simple a question as you might think! I’d been in a band called the Sinister Cleaners who were around between about 1983 and 1987 who split up when Andrew the guitarist left. The Cleaners had been very democratic and all balanced each other personality-wise so the remaining members were very unsure about finding a replacement and kind of felt it was a logical point to end anyway. I decided to form a new band and asked Simon Smith the Sinister Cleaners drummer to join me. Adverts in shops (I think!) found us Chris Sheldon and I bumped into Rob England the bass player at a music shop when I was putting up an ad on a notice board – both were from Leeds and had never been students, though me and Simon had been (but were no longer). Simon played on the first recording session but at some point he was asked to join the Wedding Present. He may have been in the Greenhouse and then left to join the Weddoes or he may have been helping us out after he’d joined them. We can’t remember which! So, Simon played on the first recordings but soon had to leave and was replaced by Tom Kincaid on drums.

Original line-up – John Parkes, guitar and vocals, Rob England bass and backing vocals, Chris Sheldon, guitar and backing vocals and Simon Smith on drums (soon to be replaced by Tom Kincaid on drums).

++ How many lineup changes were in the band and why did you call the band Greenhouse?

Another complicated question! After the initial (and early) drummer change we stayed the same until Chris Sheldon left to join a short lived outfit called ‘Ringo’s High’ We got Simon King in on guitar – though at some point (after a year or so?) Simon left and Chris re-joined! There are actually 3 guitarists on some of the Greenhouse recordings (most of the second album features Simon King with Chris Sheldon’s additions often using a guitar synth). I think the last line-up change was when Tom Kincaid left (or was asked to leave) and replaced with Paul Hegarty who appeared on the final recording session. The band split when original bass player Rob left and a suitable replacement was never found. Chris and me auditioned a couple of bass players while Paul the drummer waited and got bored I think. We never found anyone to replace Rob and at some point we obviously got bored looking. Chris and I did some recordings with computer drums but never found a full band until we’d gone our separate ways,

++ Where the band members involved with bands before or after forming Greenhouse?

Yes! I was in the Chorus (including 2 people who later joined the Wedding Present) who released one 7 inch single in 1985 and the Sinister Cleaners before Greenhouse. I was in Fuzzbird and Whole Sky Monitor www.wholeskymonitor.co.uk afterwards, as well as doing solo acoustic stuff www.johnparkes.com

Chris Sheldon was in Dorian Grey (or is that Gray?) before, Ringo’s High in the middle and later Glo-Star – and more recently the Dental Experience. Rob was in the Jazz Hipsters before and Pop Threat afterwards. I’m not sure about Simon King and Tom Kincaid to be honest.

None of these bands were really successful though there was the odd recording, tape and 7inch. The Sinister Cleaners recently (and briefly) reformed to finish off and record 4 songs written in 1987 which were put together with the 3 12 inch EPs from 1986 / 1987 to complete the Shine CD last year. Fuzzbird did 2 albums and Whole Sky Monitor have done 2 so far with a third partly recorded.

++ Your first two singles were on your own Firebomb Radio One label, right? Why did you decide to self-release and how was the experience of running a label?

By the time of Greenhouse I’d been involved in a number of self-released projects. Originally it came out of the post punk ethic about doing it for yourself; but really it was the only way we knew to get records out having never done that whole chasing big record companies in London thing which didn’t seem to work anyway. Some things about it were great like going to get records cut at posh cutting rooms where you could chat (briefly!) about classic records that they’d mastered but mostly it was about using a glue-stick and going to the post office to spend money we hadn’t really got. There was never any money in it so it was just what you did, really.

++ After releasing these two singles you sign for Native Records. I haven’t seen much written about this label even though they even had some big names as The Darling Buds. How did you end up in that label? Maybe you send a demo tape? or maybe they came to one of your gigs?

I thought that Native approached us having been impressed by what we’d achieved with the 7 inches (a few reviews and the odd play by legendary DJ John Peel) though Rob tells me their secretary saw us supporting the Wedding Present in Sheffield (a Northern ex-industrial city quite similar and quite near to Leeds) where Native were based and we were picked up from there. Native grew quickly as a label I think but shrank quickly too!

++ What did you release on Native? I know there was the Normless album and the Mad Love 12″ single. What happened after? Did you release anything else?

Yes, there was the Normless album and the Mad as Love EP but there was also the ‘Denser’ album which had 2 drummers (though not at the same time) and 3 guitarists. This was also released on CD (a big new thing back then!) but I think we only got one copy each. Either the label or the distributor went bust and remaining copies were destroyed or re-cycled or sold off (though I haven’t seen copies come up second hand – not that I’ve been looking really) The sound was fuller and, well, ‘Denser’, hence the name.

++ I’ve been always curious about the song “Refugees from England”, what is it about?

It was all about the politics of the time – grey, grinding, right wing, boring…a friend was pregnant and she was wondering seriously about finding a better place to bring up a child. It was just a feeling that there had to be something better (probably a place with better weather for a start!) Incidentally Simon Smith played on this one without using the bass drum at all. I find this interesting though I guess not everyone would…

++ Was Greenhouse a band that gig a lot? I know you opened for The Wedding Present, any anecdotes of that gig? Any other particular gig you remember?

I seem to remember that we did a few gigs here and there and some short series of dates in parts of England and Scotland. We did open for the Wedding Present for one week of a three week tour. I asked Rob about this and we agreed that there should be stories but there weren’t any! It was great to play in front of big audiences but nothing at all rock and roll happened. I was also working as a roadie / ‘guitar and backline technician’ for the Wedding Present by this time too so I probably spent most of the time tuning other people’s guitars. I think there was too much just getting things done to enjoy it really. At one gig in Scotland we arrived to find ourselves billed as ‘the Wedding Present’s roadie’s band’ which was all a bit Spinal Tap but gigs to us were all about getting home at 5 in the morning and getting back up at 8 to take van’s back to hire companies.

++ What other Leeds band from that time would you recommend?

None! We really didn’t like any bands from Leeds at the time and still can’t think of any that we may have misjudged. We were aware of the Age of Chance and the Wedding Present (though they were going before Greenhouse) and we thought Tse Tse Fly had a great name at least but no-one who we thought were great or went to see play.

++ When and why did you call it a day? What did you do all after? Are you still in touch?

It all fell apart when Rob left and it never got put back together. No-one can really remember why Rob left but we think he just got bored and thought it wasn’t going anywhere. I think we were never really quite on the same wavelength and liked a lot of different kinds of music too.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

We should also mention ’57 Headmen’. This was mainly Chris, Rob and a portastudio doing short experimental pasted together sound sketches. These short tracks were put between the ‘proper’ songs on both albums. We had a CD of the ‘Denser’ album somewhere and when we turned it onto MP3s found that these tracks were ‘stuck’ to the longer songs so we need to sort that out. We also need to find a CD copy of the first album (we did have one from a French release!) When we do we’ll make them free for download via myspace. Not all the recordings are as great sonically as we’d have liked but they still sound pretty good.

There was a Radio One session for John Peel too which I think we were pretty pleased with.

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Listen
Greenhouse – On The Ocassion

Big thanks to Andy Harding, Simon Burchill and Tom LeBas for the great great interview!

++ What happened to Charlie Don’t Surf? Why did you decide to start The Vernons instead? Did you release anything, maybe a demo tape or something, with Charlie Don’t Surf?

Simon B: The lead singer Jim left and the band were looking for a new singer. I auditioned and got the part. Then as a fresh start we decided to change the name to The Vernons.

Andy H: We had all started at college in autumn 1984, and I had been determined to be in a band! I’d met up with Jez and Jim (who along with Mandy had been Charlie Don’t Surf’s singer) and we had persuaded Tom to join on drums after an audition that involved him banging on cardboard boxes. CDS had done a few gigs when I was involved in putting on a ‘band’s night’ – Simon B’s band were one of the bands, he had dragged them up from Stratford. It’s probably fair to say that Jim and Mandy weren’t natural front-people and I seem to remember the transition from them to Simon being quite smooth. A new name seemed in order, as this was going to be a fresh start.

Tom: Charlie Don’t Surf weren’t very good at all. And we had to change the name as we discovered there was another CDS – in Ohio I think.

++ What were the main differences between both bands?

Simon: I think thats best for Andy or Tom to answer.

Andy: I had written some of the songs for CDS in one of my earlier bands (in Stoke) where I had sung (badly!), but I felt that while we had the basis of a decent band we did need a good singer who could write too. I felt that getting Simon to join was a real coup – I’d rated his performance with his old band – and I guess the main difference was that I felt that we could be something now.

++ Which Vernon does The Vernons pay tribute with the name? Perhaps The Vernons Girls?

Simon: We decided on the name while sitting in The Mount Vernon in Liverpool. It fitted in quite well at the time with other band names like The Pastels, The Smiths, The Housemartins, etc
Andy: It’s always good to pay tribute to a pub. At least we didn’t name the band while sitting in Ye Cracke – that would have been hard to live with.

++ Was it in Liverpool Polytechnic’s C.F. Mott campus were you all met? What were you studying? Did you get a lot of student following?

Simon: Yes I think we were all at CF Mott- now a business park! I was studying English and History and yes, most the people who saw us were students.

Andy: It really was predominantly a student audience. One of the things that finally killed off the band was the loss of our core audience who’d grown up with us, when they left college. Interestingly, one of things that had drawn me to Liverpool had been my love of The Bunnymen and The Teardrop Explodes – if you read Julian Cope’s brilliant book ‘Head On’ it turns out that he also went to C F Mott and was in the halls of residence only a few years before us! The bit where he smacks his head in the stairwell – we ALL used to do that jumping down…

++ The NME-biography of the band mentions that “almost every young man on campus capable of wielding an instrument” was a part of the band! How much truth is in that statement? How was it to have all band members basically living in the same house / on the same street? Did you ever have auditions when people wanted to join and what was the main requirement to be in the band? Did you ever think “He’s a great chef! We may need him”?

Simon: Well we did end up with eight members, and for a time we had Jane Mitson playing flute with us as well. So I think that was most of the campus. The rest of CF Mott played in bands such as The Men Who Couldn’t play, Lars Me and Her, and the wonderful Luigi Klingon and His Magic of Italy Beat Group Sound Authority – their drummer Phil Selway ended up playing in Radiohead. I met him in Waitrose carpark in Abingdon a few years ago. He asked me how the music was going and I said fine, then I didn’t know what to say. I couldn’t reply back to him with “And how is your band doing? Did you get anywhere after leaving CF Mott?”

Andy: Like I say, getting Simon as singer was great. Tom’s box/drums audition was surreal. The key thing I felt was that everyone’s voice in the band was listened to, and we tried to operate as a democracy – the downside was that decision-making could be torturous and arranging rehearsal time and so on could be a nightmare!

++ The Vernons had saxes, trumpets, keyboards, and maybe more! A bit more ambitious than the usual post C-86 band. What do you think did the band gained by having all these new sounds? How much more difficult is it to make songs with such an array of different people and instruments?

Simon: Basically if I or anyone else came with an idea for a song to a practice, it would usually sound much better once everyone had put their own instrument and idea into it. Of course you had to be careful it didn’t become too cluttered but usually we knew when to stop playing. I think if we hadn’t incorporated these other instruments we would have sounded like everyone else and would have remained an obscure indie band from Liverpool!

Andy: Building the songs from the initial idea always felt pretty easy I thought. I can clearly remember the brass guys getting their heads together and coming up with some amazing stuff just like that…

++ You played some shows with Frank Sidebottom, how did that work out? I bet they were not your usual kind of gig

Simon: It was like playing to a football crowd. However, we never got bottled off.

Tom: …and we never got him to take his large papier-mâche head off

Andy: The man is a genius. He keeps his head in a drum carrier. Enough said.

++ What other gigs do you remember in particular?

Simon: We nearly did get bottled off when we played to a room full of heavy duty punks at the Elephant and Castle in London. Other gigs I remember, were EarthBeat in Sefton Park playing alongside the mighty Onset, blowing The Brilliant Corners off stage, The Hillsborough support gig where we played last and had The Farm playing Pump it Up with us at the end, and my last gig when we launched the album at the Haigh building in the Polytechnic (This you can see on the Vernons Myspace site).

Andy: I particularly liked when we started playing with The Onset and St Vitus Dance, and my favourite places to play were The Everyman, The Philharmonic and The Flying Picket, all in the same area of central Liverpool. I do remember that gig in London at the punk club – we just said ‘let’s play everything twice as fast’ and it seemed to work, as we went down well enough! Actually, only this week I was thinking about the Hillsborough benefit gig we played, with it having been the 20 years anniversary recently – that tragedy really did bring the whole city together it seemed.

++ Why dedicate a song to Stockton-on-Tees? Is the song based on a real story? What about Hoe Town? Which city or town is the real hoe town?

Simon: I was born in Kent, my family was from Bristol, so you couldn’t get more southern than that. Stockton on Tees expressed my thoughts and feelings about living in the North and a particular train journey from Liverpool to Stockton. Hoe Town was based on an idea by my friend Angus Yarwood who had been in a previous band with me. At the time we were living in Stratford Upon Avon so I guess that is what the song is about.

++ What was the full discography of the band including demo tapes? I only know the “Smithdown Road” LP on Probe Plus. Why did you call it like that, was that big road important in The Vernon’s life?

Simon: Many friends lived on the road, in fact I think Tom did. The other names were Nil Draw Scored and A Slight run in with the Devil and my favourite – Twelve Variations on the Theme of Lurve – which I would like to use one day.

Tom: This is true, I lived there. Despite that, I never liked the name of the album much . . . I did like the cover, though, which came from a book of black and white 1950s Life/Magnum photographs I had bought in a jumble sale, even if someone rather overdid the “sepia” tint for us which in the end turned out kind of orange. It’s a brilliant picture of an audience laughing at god knows what in some Mid-Western community hall in 1953. Completely relevant to the Vernons sound. This is the LP cover I’m talking about – the limited edition cassette had a big blue bald head on it.

Andy: We did quite a few demos, and the final one before Smithdown Road was called ‘I Think My Hamster’s Yodelling’, paid for by Geoff at Probe…sold quite a few of those. As to the name Smithdown Road – I think that we pretty much all lived on or near it at some point…

++ How did you end up signing with Probe Plus? Was Geoff Davis a friend or maybe a big supporter of your shows?

Simon: Andy had a lot of contact with Geoff so he can answer this the best.

Andy: Probe Plus were THE indie label in Liverpool, and at the time were one of the highest profile in the UK due to Hal Man Half Biscuit’s success. We had had some majors sniff around a bit but to be honest I never thought that we’d get a major deal – we were an indie band through and through. Mick Bouvier was managing The Vernons at the time and he and I hassled Geoff by constantly going into his offices and trying to get him along to gigs. I guess in the end we wore him down! At any rate I’d like to think he became a friend and I have enormous admiration for what he has done with Probe and how he has kept his love of music fresh.

++ How influential was that amazing Liverpool scene from the early eighties, with The Wild Swans, The Lotus Eaters, The Pale Fountains and more?

Simon: I loved that liverpool scene. I still have Revolutionary Spirit by The Wild Swans – a great record. I was a massive Bunnymen fan and loved The Teardrop Explodes and at the time I was listening alot to Across the Kitchen Table by The Pale Fountains. But I was also well into The Loft, Primal Scream, early James, The Pastels and The Doors. I think you can hear a lot of their influence in the album.

Andy: Ditto – for me it was The Bunnymen and The Teardrop Explodes who I looked up to in the Liverpool scene. I have to say though that The La’s were totally brilliant – there was a time when they first were emerging that you could watch them pretty much every night somewhere in town, and they had awesome songs. It was such a shame that the album took years to appear and when it did it was strangely neutered.

Tom: Liverpool was a great place to be at that time – and probably still is, although I have only been back twice in about 20 years.

++ Be honest, do you really wish you were an American as one of your song says? Have you ever come to America at all?

Simon: The song was supposed to be ironic – it is a very stereo typed view of Americans. I guess living in Stratford and seeing all the American tourists in their chequered shorts and baseball caps did colour my view of them. However, I have been to Seattle recently and I loved it and the people. I also listen to lots of American music – Neil Young, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, Emily Jane White, Camper Van Beethoven, and I think if I had to name my favourite writer it would be Kurt Vonnegut.

Andy: I went to San Diego a few years ago – yay! – and loved it…someone take me back. Now.

++ How do you see Liverpool’s chances to win over Chelsea in Champion’s League? Pretty tough! Or maybe you don’t follow Liverpool but Everton?

Simon: They just lost and anyrate West Ham are the team to follow. However I do have a soft spot for Liverpool FC. I used to live in earshot of Anfield and often went. Visiting the Stadium when all the flowers were laid there after the Hillsborough disaster was very poignant.

Andy: I’m not a native of Liverpool rather I was born and bred a Stokie…and this season has been a joyous one for me seeing Stoke City back in the top division. Stoke is only 45 miles or so from Liverpool, and I remember going to Eric’s to see The Dickies on a matinee show when I was about 15 – brilliant!

++ Why and when did you call it a day? What did you all do after splitting up?

Simon: Unfortunately I had a disagreement with the rest of the band shortly after the album was released and subsequently left. I worked in the railway industry and then moved into teaching. I now live and teach in Lyon, France. As far as music is concerned, I played with a few other people, the most serious being with a friend called Jim Noble in a group called Sunriser. But nothing has reached the dizzying heights of playing in The Vernons. I still love music and play the guitar every day.

Tom: The rest of us soldiered on for a bit but it wasn’t the same. It was very depressing, coming straight after the excitement of releasing the album. I think I was the next one to go about 3 months later. We had a new singer who was good, but it never really worked. Andy may disagree…

Andy: I DO disagree a little actually. Andy Holland was a good singer and front person, but we had lost all momentum (not to mention our audience!) after the time it took to find him and get him in – it was the timing that was all wrong really…shame as I thought we were sounding pretty good just before we packed in. After The Vernons I started playing some stuff with Jon and Haydn from St Vitus Dance (also on Probe, and reformed with a new album out), which was fun but didn’t last too long. I actually didn’t touch my guitar for years on end, but maybe 3 or 4 years ago I started playing and writing stuff again, and have something of a band going with Tom and another friend Amos. I would like to play gigs again – I really used to love playing gigs with The Vernons and that is what I look back on with most fondness. I still see some of the guys from the band – Tom, Jon and Mick – and the Myspace page I put together got me back in touch with Simon B, Andy Delamere and Geoff. I’ve stayed great friends with Haydn and it was his idea to do the Myspace page…

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Simon: Still working on that ‘difficult second album’!

Tom: Hey Simon! Considering your employment history and current location it is quite odd / ironic / coincidental / remarkable that you once wrote a song called Running Free on the TGV… Lyon, of course, being the terminus of the inaugural TGV line when it opened on September 27th 1981.

Andy: It’s good to be in touch again with various Vernons-types across the globe after all this time…and thanks for your interest, Roque!

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Listen
The Vernons – Stockton-On-Tees

Thanks so much to Nicky Scott for the interview!

++ 20 recorded songs but no releases. How did you end up recording so many songs and not putting them out on a record?

i suppose we were developing our sound and never thought about putting them out as singles or a cd.

++ How many demos were released? Do you remember the tracklist of them?

We released 3 demo’s with hand felt-tipped covers and envelopes, which was a great job !

Demo 1
1) Randall and Hopkirk (deceased)
2) Three White Leopards
3) Cattleline
4) Hide the Clock

Demo 2
1) Cloak and Dagger
2) The Magic Faraway Tree
3) Amateur Dramatics
4) The Wishing Chair

Demo 3
1) Climb
2) Painted They Stare
3) Claiming Islands
4) Soap Sculptures.

++ How did The Wishing Chair came together? Was the Carlisle music scene small? Did the name The Wishing Chair come from Enid Blyton’s books?

We had all been friends for a long time, and had been in a band six years previously together called ‘Long Street’. Stephen and I were school friends and had been in a band together at school called ‘Jamswamp’ after school we worked together delivering beds and furniture and had a love of music and Carlisle United, we met Liz when we were thirteen through a friend and great inspiration at the time called Steve Harkins who was singer/songwriter.simon was alot younger than us but fit in really well, and we knew him from various bands around town. At the time there was a very healthy mix of bands, who were all very supportive of each other, The Twiggs, who were my favourites, Cosmic Cat, the E-Springs, The Cat in the Hat, The Mighty Helmets, April Sunshine, Red Mullet, 10 Gladioli. The name certainly did come from Enid Blyton, A world of make believe, but with both dark and light story lines The sense of escape, adventure and realising true and full potential are laced throughout each song and each song was like a short story with characters entering, telling their tale then disappearing off…to I know not where

++ Speaking about children books, which are your favourite 5?

– Lion the witch and the wardrobe (there’s a theme here isn’t there, of magical lands)
– Lord of the rings (as a series of books)
– The Wishing Chair (of course)
– The magic faraway tree
– The Shoot football annual of 1975 (as Carlisle United were featured in it as they were in the top big las league then)

++ What were your first dreams and intentions with the band? Did you have any particular style or band you wanted to sound like or was it mainly about getting together and having a good time while playing?

Getting together, having a good time and blending everything we’d ever heard into our own sound was how we sailed all the songs were drawn from emotion and real life and fantasy

The dream was to stay dreaming…

++ Seems like you and the others were in a couple of other bands on the side, was it hard to find time for Wishing Chair? Which were these bands you were involved with? Were being in bands and play music a common hobby in Carlisle?

Stephen and I both played in different duos playing the working mens club/pub/bingo hall circuit which provided us with a living. Stephen was in partnership with guitarist Ian ‘mert’ from the Daisychain Connection in a duo called ‘Waiting for the Postman’ and I was in ‘the men upstairs’ with Paul Musgrave who was the singer in ‘Celtic Storm’, so if we were playing at night, we would rehearse in the afternoons, the duos were our bread and butter so we needed to do it, and we played 3/7 nights a week, I enjoyed it but I think stephen would say different. I suppose being on the circuit you come across many musicians across the ages from your area, so everybody did seem to be a musician, but its like that in every town im sure

++ Being from Cumbria, so close to Scotland, who were more influential for you at the time, Scottish bands or English bands? I guess also Scottish bands toured more around your town, right?

I love it that Carlisle used to be in Scotland (even though I love being English) I feel it breaksdown the crazy nationalistic sillyness that sadly has ebbed and flowed throughout history. We’re a City firmly influenced by both, aswell as Italians (who came to build a great big wall) and Danish who came and knocked down loads of walls, then settled down to stay I love how when you peep under the covers of nationality you see that it is indeed a great big collage of identity.

As a band we were influenced by both English & Scottish bands soaking up everyting we came across (like a big pop sponge).

Touring wise we got a good mix back in the 1970’s & 80’s sadly the bands used to play in our Market Hall, which had a glass ceiling so in the summer it was like watching a gig in a green house

++ Last summer Paul Vickers wrote a piece about you saying that “the music they played was quite skiffley, but with Johnny Marr-style guitar. It had a Hans Christian Andersen quality to it as well – lots of childlike imagery”. That’s a nice comment to receive! What about the Hans Christian Andersen reference, you think it was based on the music itself or simply the rather imaginative song titles (mainly thinking about 3 White Leopards which indeed could’ve been a child play by Andersen, and of course The Wishing Chair)?

Paul’s description is absolutely ace we couldn’t have put it better ourselves We were always facinated by the different levels of things like Hans Christian Anderson they were adult stories told in a child like way with all the hope, fear and excitement that childhood holds and with no limitation to imagination and possibility. 3 White Leopards is a pastiche of TS Eliot poems i’ve always been fascinated by ‘metaphysics’ (on a very basic level, not the deep deep really complicated levels that talks about maths and stuff, but on the level of it being ‘the theory of being and knowing’) this was a theme throughout all the Wishing Chair songs.

++ How often did you practice together and how did the usual rehearsal look like? Did you meet for other things other than playing, like mini golf or maybe paint ball?

We used to rehearse as much as we could, I would think at the beginning it was everyday, and that continued, we loved sculpting the songs, Simon our drummer was brought in once a week , so it was me, Stephen and Liz practicing round the fireside most nights, and in our spare time we all enjoyed origami and shark fishing together.

++ You recorded the song Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased), was it your favourite TV Show and why? Which other TV shows did you enjoy back then?

Randall & Hopkirk was such a great concept two detectives and one of them a ghost who could walk through walls and basically be wherever he wanted without being spotted.

Fave TV show was Mr Benn the very thought of having a mate (in a fez) who can offer you different costumes and doorways to felt tip coloured worlds completely blew up my tiny brains as a child and still sets off quite a few explosions now.

++ Its interesting that you never released any records but managed to shoot some live videos. Were you a live band more than a studio one? Any particular gigs that you remember the most?

We did a bit of everything. we used to enjoy playing acoustic in the bar of our local arts theatre before and in the intervals of productions,because it was like our fireside rehearsals,very intimate, i don’t think we ever had a bad gig,it was all a big adventure.

++ What was the biggest highlight of The Wishing Chair as a band?

Being in a band together

++ Why and when did you call it a day? What did The Wishing Chair members did after?

I don’t think we ever split up ! we’ve all done loads of different things since then, Stephen is a professor of pop and spreads the word in many directions, Liz is postmaster general and runs base camp, Simon toured the world playing in big bands on cruiseships and I live in Thailand and have a live music venue

++ You now have your own band November222 and you included The Wishing Chairs song ‘Wishing Chair’ on your first live show (which you do superbly)! Have you ever covered other Wishing Chair’s songs?

hey thanks, we did a version of ‘digging in the shade’ i didn’t play the original recording to the Thai lads in the band, so it was a very different version,and i was singing it, i have some live video, so it maybe will be on youtube on eday . and most nights i do an acoustic set in the bar and one or two songs sometimes make the set.

++ Thanks so much! Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks for taking a trip in The Wishing Chair, Off we go, we know not where ………

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Listen
The Wishing Chair – Randall & Hopkirk (Deceased)

Thanks so much to Phil Andrews for the interview!

++ Why did you decide to call it a day with Chapter 29 and start The Morrisons? I’m quite curious of that first band of yours, were there any recordings or releases?

I think we had gone as far as we could with it really. It was Ian and Jerry’s first band in which they literally learned to play. If it had been 1986 and not 1982/83 I think the twee sound would have found a better home. There were a number of fairly basic recordings and funnily enough these have just been released as a CDR album by Series Two Records.

++ Were you fan of The Doors at all? Or was the name a joke? What were your favourite bands at the time?

Ian was a big fan of The Doors but the idea came one Sunday night when we were both down the pub and pretty drunk! We were nearly called The Jim Morrisons!! Ian has always been a big garage rock 60’s fan and introduced me to The Velvet Underground amongst others. We were both very inspired by punk and the “just go and do it” ethic to writing and playing.

++ How did the whole band came together? At one point you were a five piece right? you even had a saxophone!

We actually started as a five piece and after about six months (in time for our first gig) Shelley joined on saxophone and backing vocals to make it six!!

++ Why did you decide to self release the Listen To Your Heart flexi? H ow fast did those 1000 copies go?! How did you afford pressing it?

We saw that a flexi was the way forward through the music press at the time and we actually recorded ours before we had even gigged. Once John Peel played it several hundred copies went via mail order within the first couple of weeks. Johnny Dee then approached us about giving the balance away with his Especially Yellow fanzine which we did and that lead on to the EP for Playroom Discs. Ian, Jerry and myself saved up the money for the flexi at £10 a week each for about two months.

++ Most of your recordings were done “live”, straight to a four track! Why did you do it that way? Were you looking for something with more energy? What difference do you find between those recordings and the Playroom EP?

Most of the recordings were done live on four track because that was all we could afford. Home recording equipment was still basic and expensive and a “proper” recording session would have been too expensive as well. It does have the advantage of sounding more rough and edgy and because the recordings were done with friends we could do more of them and re-do the ones that didn’t work out so good. With the exception of Travellin’ Boy and Lament we were disappointed with the EP sound which we felt was too polished. Ian and I prefer the four track demo versions of the songs better.

++ The EP of yours is fantastic. Listen To Your Heart, Storm, Lament (such a good bassline and trumpets!) and the underrated Travellin’ Boy (this could have been a single by itself!). Why didn’t you keep releasing more music? I heard Golden Pathway was going to release something but it never happened? What’s the story?

Thanks Roque. We always liked the EP songs it was just the recordings that sounded too polished!! Golden Pathway were poised to release our next single which was going to be Brighter Days as Karen and Gordon at Playroom Discs still had other EP’s to get out before they could think about another Morrisons one. Things still moved very slowly back then and we needed the distribution network that the labels had remember there was no internet and MySpace back then. Travellin’ Boy by the way was always one of my favourite Morrisons songs we did play it again in the live set a while back which was fun. On the subject of bass lines it must be said that Dave is an awesome bass player.

++ How was your relationship with Johnny Dee? How helpful was him with his Especially Yellow fanzine in spreading the word of The Morrisons?

Johnny was real helpful. Without his input giving away Listen To Your Heart with Especially Yellow we wouldn’t have got the EP deal with Playroom Discs. We mainly exchanged letters (no e-mail then) but I’m sure I met Johnny once at his flat in Brighton when Ian and I visited Karen and Gordon but my memory is a little wobbly here it was a long time ago. I always read Johnny’s articles if I come across them in the papers though.

++ What was the biggest highlight for The Morrisons? Maybe getting the flexi played by John Peel?

The John Peel plays will always be special he was after all the most iconic DJ of all time. We did play some really great gigs at the time too people seemed really up for it. It still surprises me though when people get in touch now who bought the records back in the 80’s.

++ Do you remember anything about those tape compilations were you appeared? Like the Rewind compilation tape or the Now That’s Righteous one? Who did these? How did you end up on them?

We used to do loads and loads of fanzine interviews at the time and these would often come with requests for tracks for compilation cassettes. We always donated tracks and I lost count of who had what. It’s great to see that some of those are really popular even now.

++ On the Leamington Spa compilation liner notes you say you were darlings of the fanzine scene! How involved were you in that scene? Did you ever gave it a shot to make one? Which ones were your favourite ones?

As I said above we were doing several a week they were a great way of getting the band’s name around. We never started one ourselves although the local one here called Swim I would regularly write for. Favourite fanzine well Especially Yellow of course!!

++ What was your favourite gig playing for The Morrisons and why?

It would have been in 1987 at Bart’s Tavern in Exeter. We played with a band called The Precious Stone Thieves and the place was packed. There was no stage at Bart’s and the audience was literally pressed right up tight in front of the band. We played really well that night and made lots of friends. We were always regulars at Bart’s after that.

++ Why did you call it a day in 1988? Were you involved in any bands after that?

I think we were all getting frustrated. Things weren’t moving fast enough for us I think we felt we should be touring and releasing records but it seemed to take forever for things to move forward. In hindsight I think we needed a Manager we were still doing everything ourselves from writing songs to booking live dates, PA hire and vans etc. I played bass in a band called Jensen for about five years. Ian, Jerry and Dave played in a number of bands before we re-formed The Morrisons in 2003. We lost contact with our drummer Jason until a couple of months back when he spotted our You Tube stuff and got back in touch again.

++ You released a fantastic retrospective CD with the good friends of Firestation Records called “Songs From the South of England”! Im very glad it happened as it introduced your music to a broader audience. How do you feel about your songs twenty years later? I think they’ve aged really well! Which is your favourite song of your repertoire?

It was great to do the Firestation release as it drew together lots of loose ends and packaged up a lot of songs that had just sat quietly on the shelf getting dusty. I think a lot of the songs still sound good and I’ll often strum through some of them at home even now! We do play some of the 80’s stuff in our live sets now but it tends to be “forgotten” ones that we never recorded at the time. Favourites would be Travellin’ Boy, Storm and Brighter Days (we have been known to play all three of these even now!!).

++ Last question, which is your favourite beach in Torquay?

It’s called Oddicombe and is real quiet compared to the main tourist beaches. You can reach it by using an old Victorian cliff railway which is fun and there is a good pub called The Cary Arms about a ten minute walk away. If you ever visit Torquay give me a call and I’ll take you down there!

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Listen
The Morrisons – Travellin’ Boy

Thanks so much to Jon Clay for the interview. Check out “Tunes for Saturday Boys” compilation CD on Firestation Records!

++ Your website enunciates, ‘The Ferrymen play Northern Pop’. What is Northern Pop?

Northern Pop is a name or genre that we made up ourselves. In a similar way that Northern Soul was so called because it was first played in the UK in clubs around the North of England, Northern Pop is guitar based pop music that was first played in the North of England!

++ How did the band start? How did you know each other?

The band started in late 1990 when Wayne decided to form a new band after his previous band split up. The early band went through a few line-up changes and I joined in 1992. Wayne’s girlfriend at the time was my cousin, so between her and a school-friend of mine I got persuaded to audition for the job of bass player.

++ More than ten people have played either live or when recording with The Ferrymen. Why did you have such a big cast of players in the band? Was it easier to work this way?

The simple answer is that many of the “extra” players didn’t really want to be in the band full time as they couldn’t commit the amount of time that was needed. So, we used a lot of people for recording, but only a few of those ever played live. Throughout the life of the band we only ever had 2 keyboard players that actually played live, and only 1 trumpet player. WE played 1 gig with a trumpet player and sax player together… the gig sounded great but unfortunately the sax player didn’t want to join the band full time.

++ Why do you say it’s not cool to come from Doncaster? I’ve never been there, but I totally be interested to visit, maybe you can tell me what are the sights?

Ha ha…. Doncaster doen’t really have any sights! Doncaster is a very large industrial town in the North of England, and it’s nearest major cities are Sheffield and Leeds. Doncaster used to be a large coal mining town, but the majority of the “pits” closed in and around 1984, and the town sort of died along with the coal industry. This led to massive unemployment and deprivation which is still felt in some parts of the town today. In terms of the music industry, people just didn’t want to know if you came from Doncaster as it wasn’t considered a cool place to be. Lots of famous bands have come from Sheffield, and for a while it was a cool place to be in the 1990s (Pulp etc), but that never filtered through to Doncaster. Also, living in a city can be quite cosmopolitan due to the different mix of people that live there, but Doncaster didn’t really have that back then. Many people led their lives with closed minds and little imagination unfortunately.

++ How do you feel about all The Housemartins comparisons? Were you big fans of Paul Heaton’s band?

Well, it was obvious that we would get compared to The Housemartins as we did sound very much like them, although we tried to throw in a bit of influence from The Redskins too! We were (and still are) all big fans of The Housemartins and even the first couple of Beautiful South albums, but we also had many other varied likes and influences.

++ Whole World was your first and only 7″, right? Who released it? Which songs did it include? Any anecdotes about this fantastic record?

Yes, Whole World was our first and only 7″ single which came out on the German Black Pearl label. The 7″ contained “Whole World” , “The Story Is Always The Same” and *******************

++ You also released a couple of demos which got great reviews, why didn’t these tracks end up on vinyl?

In total I think we released 4 demos. The tracks didn’t end up on vinyl as we simply didn’t have the opportunity to release them. That has always been a real bugbear of mine, having never released an album. That’s why I was really happy when Firestation Records asked if they could put out the compilation that I’d been planning!

++ You were around a time were the jangle pop acts weren’t getting any press compared to the late 80s. On the other hand you got to tour Germany and Spain which a few bands do. What were the highlights of The Ferrymen career?

The obvious highlights of our career were the Spanish and German tours, but we also had lots of great gigs in England too. My personal highlight was getting the “Whole World” 7″ released because it was my first ever record. Another highlight of mine was playing at the legendary 100 Club in London…. it was after that gig that everything fell into place for us. Also, one of our stickers appeared very briefly in the well known film The Full Monty, so that was another highlight!

++ Were any of you involved with bands before or after The Ferrymen?

Yes, most of us got together shortly after The Ferrymen split to form a band called Barny. We were only together a short while and we played, I think, only about 10 gigs. Most of the gigs were in London but we also played in Brighton and Leeds a few times. By that time I had moved to live in London and the rest of the band were still in Doncaster and Leeds, so things didn’t really work out. After that I stopped playing and became a live sound engineer for other bands and began working in and around London. Wayne and Mat continued in various other bands for a while, but only myself and Wayne are still playing now. I am currently in a band called The Platers with a friend of mine, as well as recording with various other projects.

++ Why did you do the “There’s Only One F In Ferrymen” fanzine? What did you write in them? Was it a team project or how did it work?

We made the fanzine because we felt that it was something we could give to our friends and fans to make them remember us! Of course, all this was in the days before Myspace, Facebook etc. so it was a lot harder for bands to get people to come to shows. The fanzine included topical cartoons about what we had been doing along with copies of press cuttings, gig dates, stories and photographs. It was really a team effort but all the printing was done by me on the quiet at work

++ Why did the band call it a day?

This is quite a difficult question to be honest, because you will get a different answer depending on who you ask! The fact is several members of the band were not happy about certain aspects of the German tour, and this caused tensions between the band and the promoter. During the tour the band split up and we drove back to England with 2 gigs remaining. I don’t really want to say more than that, as I don’t want to dig up old problems / opinions.

++ You just released a fantastic retrospective CD on Firestation Records called “Tunes for Saturday Boys”, what can the first time listeners expect on this album?

Listeners can expect most of the old tracks from the Black Pearl and Plastic Disc releases along with some tracks from the first ever demo and lots of live tracks…. 20 tracks in all! The songs have all been remastered to make them as good as possible, so it’s well worth getting hold of a copy!

++ Was it an easy decision to release this album after all these years? I really recommend it, right now my favourite song is Many Times, what is your favourite Ferrymen song?

Well, it was always something that I wished we had done but due to circumstances an album release never happened. I was considering releasing one myself, but Firestation Records asked to do it and so I jumped at the chance! A label such as Firestation Records has far better contacts and distribution than me, and they have done a fantastic job. My favourite song…. wow, that’s a difficult one….. probably One Saturday, We’d Take You In Our Sleep or So Angry…. I can’t decide!!!

++ Anything else you’d like to tell the pop fans out there?

I’d just like to thank everyone involved in the release of this CD and to say thanks to all those people who have bought copies or are going to buy a copy…. support the independent record labels! So, if you liked The Housemartins, The Redskins and early-Beautiful South then this album is for you!

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Listen
The Ferrymen – Stop Bending Backwards

Thanks so much to Paul Denheyer for the fantastic interview!

++ What’s the story behind Politburo? Who were the original members and why did you start a new band after the break up of Dead of Arrival?

There were a couple of line-ups after DEAD ON ARRIVAL, including for a while JOHN LEVER (from Manchester’s THE CHAMELEONS) but the main line-up was:

(myself) Paul Denheyer – voice and guitar
Ian Jackson – bass guitar and voice
Carl Henry – the drums
along with
Andy Clegg – mellotron and synth (1983-84)
Dave Dix – keyboards (1984-85 but mostly only on recordings)

There was never a question for me of not continuing to make music after DEAD ON ARRIVAL. I enjoyed it too much and personally felt I had more to say as a songwriter. I’d known from an early age that music was all I wanted to do and I suppose I’ve always been lucky enough to find like-minded people who share that passion.

++ How much has changed Wirral since the eighties?

The Wirral is now officially promoted as the ‘leisure peninsula’ and is best known for it’s golf courses and as the place where wealthy footballers have their luxury homes. But it also still has it’s fair share of areas of poverty and social deprivation. During the eighties, and as a direct result of government cuts (in particular to customs & excise) our hometown was the cheapest place in Europe to buy heroin and, like the rest of Britain, lost most of it’s manufacturing industries creating high unemployment here. It has changed in many ways since and from my point of view for the better. Liverpool has just finished it’s year as European Capital Of Culture and this always affects surrounding areas – I remember seeing the positive effects it had on Glasgow when I was playing up in Scotland with FISHMONKEYMAN in the nineties. For young musicians and artists here, there is more support and there seems to be a healthy local scene now for the arts in general.

++ Where does the name come from? I read somewhere that during the mid eighties, Dale Street’s Vernon Arms was dubbed Liverpool’s politburo. Anything to do with that?

In the early 80s, Britain was living under the conservative Thatcher government – not the happiest of times for many people and particularly for anyone with socialist or left-wing views. While we never really wrote out and out political songs, it amused us to call ourselves Politburo (after the Soviet inner cabinet) just as a means of ‘getting up peoples noses’.

++ The first release of Politburo happened to be a BBC flexi disc called Two Minute Heroes. How did this happen? Was it common for the BBC to release records at that time?

The ‘Two Minute Heroes’ record was the idea of Radio Merseyside’s Roger Hill. I think he wanted to give something back to the local bands of the time – particularly the ones that regularly submitted material for his show. For a while, i think he was the only broadcaster at Radio Merseyside supporting the local scene – later on they started a sunday night show called ‘Streetlife’ hosted by Con McConville and Janice Long (who later went on to Radio One) – but I’m not aware of any other such releases so i guess Roger should take credit for it really.

++ You released a couple of demo tapes, do you remember which songs were included? Any chance pop fans will be able to listen to them some day?

Hmm we made available several cassettes of our songs for sale at gigs – a few of the tracks I put up on the myspace page.

++ In 1984 Ronnie Flood, founder of the city’s musicpaper Merseysound “had the idea of putting together a compilation of the best local groups who weren’t getting airplay”. That was the Jobs for the Boys compilation and Politburo was included with the song “Innocence”, which you had to re-record. Did you know Ronnie already? Was there a launch party? What were your favourite tracks on the compilation? Do you think he missed any other great local groups?

No, we didnt know Ronnie directly until he asked us to submit a track for the album. The launch party was an all-day event at Liverpool University featuring many of the bands on the album. We were the last band to play and I remember waiting around most of the day watching the other bands (some we were aware of already) and only really enjoyed BROKEN PROMISE and THE FACTION. Probably because they had a similar attitude to ourselves – we prided ourselves on being as unpretentious as possible and disliked any form of ‘rockstar’ behaviour. Other than that I always had a soft spot for COOK DA BOOK’s ‘Piggy In The Middle 8′ track. I don’t think Ronnie missed any good unsigned bands at the time, BLACK, IT’S IMMATERIAL, ECHO & THE BUNNYMEN, ICICLE WORKS etc.. were already signed and making their own records by then.

++ Did you participate in other compilations?

No, just the ‘Jobs For The Boys’ album.

++ In March 1986 you release your first and only proper single “Euphoria b/w April Shower, Half a Hairpin”. What do you remember from these recording sessions? Who released the 7″? Why did you choose these three songs in particular?

I remember enjoying the sessions for the single. Our producer and good friend Dave Dix (from BLACK) took us into Pete Fullwell’s Benson Street Studios to lay down the tracks. For a small studio, it was a really good vibe with other local musicians dropping in and hanging out – IT’S IMMATERIAL, BLACK and WAH! were all signed to Pete’s label INEVITABLE.
Dave added some keyboard parts, then we did the vocals and final mixes in New Brighton’s STATION HOUSE studio. The record was released on Pete Leah’s SKYSAW RECORDS and was well received generally – I think we decided between us all that they were our best 3 songs we had at the time.

++ After that you were going to work on a second single, right? What happened with it? Why didn’t it come out?

Yes, we were booked into Cargo Studios in Rochdale to record the latest songs but split up just before the session and so regretfully it had to be cancelled.

++ Did you gig a lot with Politburo? Which gigs in particular do you remember the most and why?

We were constantly gigging throughout the UK. Gigs that stand out? I’d have to say playing at the Royal Court Theatre along with ECHO & THE BUNNYMEN and others for JOEY MUSKER’s ‘Drums Over The Mersey’ charity gig. I also remember enjoying every time we played at the ‘Larks In The Park’ event and performing live on Radio Merseyside with ICICLE WORKS and IT’S IMMATERIAL was very cool. I loved IT’S IMMATERIAL

++ What’s the story behind the Return of the Kodak Ghosts video? It has indeed that ghostlike feel! And what about the song, were you inspired by Eyeless in Gaza’s “Kodak Ghosts Run Amok” by any chance?

Haha, i have to say this song was very heavily-influenced by Sheffield’s COMSAT ANGELS (a big favourite of ours). I don’t think i heard the Eyeless In Gaza track. The video was part of a home-produced 25 minute film we made of our songs called ‘Building Cages’. To have a band video at all in those days was rare and to be selling it at gigs for the price of the cassette itself even rarer. It was produced on a couple of domestic recorders and a camera the size of a suitcase so is highly amusing to watch compared to what can be done now.

++ Did you know there was a Danish movie last year called “Room 205″ and it’s a terror movie! What is your Room 205 song about? maybe it’s about ghosts too? Do you have a particular interest in ghosts at all?

nope LOL. I never really felt too comfortable explaining my songs, preferring listeners to make up their own minds but i think looking back it’s about isolation. At the time i was losing friends to drugs and I think this sense of helplessness was reflected in more than a few Politburo songs.

++ What do you miss the most from those days when you hang around with your mates and made fantastic music?

In all honesty i’m still hanging around with friends and hopefully still making fantastic music occasionally LOL. I never grew up

++ Why and when did the band call it a day? What did you do after?

All things come to an end and there were many personal reasons for the end of Politburo in 1986. Ian Jackson had started his own musical project with local poet JEGSY DODD and it’s success, along with the band’s frustration at not gaining the recognition we thought we deserved, probably didn’t help matters. Sadly, for me, the songs written by both myself and Ian at the end were never recorded and I still feel they were the best songs we ever wrote. They did however give me a focus for the direction of my next project.
Ian went off to do his own thing and Carl and I started playing with lots of different musicians in search of the right formula that would eventually gel to become FISHMONKEYMAN. After releasing our own 12″EP in 1990, we were signed to Warners and released a couple of successful singles with them. FISHMONKEYMAN continued in various guises with support from indie label COPASETIC RECORDS until 1997 when I finally hung up my guitar and concentrated on producing local bands and discovered underground house music.
These days I produce the odd house vinyl, dj occasionally and run an underground house internet radio station and record label called MYHOUSE-YOURHOUSE. Just recently, I returned to my indie roots and started producing demos for a new Liverpool band called SLOPeS. (http://www.myspace.com/thisisslopes)

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Only my thanks for asking me to do this interview. Was funny thinking back on what were exciting times for the Liverpool music scene. They were ‘dark times’, particularly in the north of england and yet a lot of quality music was created. It’s nice to know there’s still interest in this period, I still get emails about the bands i was involved in at the time and for that reason put up the following myspace pages so people can still hear some of the songs….

http://www.myspace.com/politburo82
http://www.myspace.com/fishmonkeyman9197

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Listen
Politburo – Innocence

Thanks so much to Gavin, Christine, Stephen and Adrian for the interview! Also a big thanks to Emma, the number 1 Proctors fan, who helped so much on the interview.

Look for the new The Proctors CD out on the Cloudberry Classics series! It includes 5 fantastic pop songs!

‘After returning victorious from a bubble bath wonderland laiden with a chest full of tunes, and the secret to a kings glory. Toys at teatime, a true daydream lay forever in front of us’ Adrian ‘Josef’ Jones (The Proctors) April 2009

++ Who were The Proctors? Why did you name the band The Proctors?

Gavin: Gavin Priest, Christina Priest, Adrian ‘Josef’ Jones and Stephen Davies. The band was named after a kid at school whose nickname was Proctor. He was a bit of an outsider.

++ Did Stephen/Stevie usually spell his name like Steven back then?

Stephen: No it was a printing error. It was always Stephen back then. Stevie is more of a recent thing, but I am tending to mainly stick with Stephen. I think it suits my advancing years better than Stevie. If my name was spelt Steven I would have the same first two names as Morrissey as my middle name is Patrick. Well they are the same but with just a different spelling. I read once that Morrissey said he is glad that is first name (Steven) is spelt with a ‘V’. I’ve never really understood what he meant by this. I much prefer the look of the name ‘Stephen’ with a ‘PH’. When I see the name Stephen Pastel I get quite excited, so I think it will definitely be Stephen from now on.

++ In which bands were you involved with bands before or after The Proctors?

Gavin: Prior to the Proctors I was in This November, The Cudgels. After it was Sweet Jesus, Venus and Groupie. Oh and Autopia and Codename Josephine after this!
Stephen: Myself and Adrian were in The Cudgels along with Gavin. I occasionally come out of retirement to play stand up drums with my brother Andrew who performs shows as ‘Andus’. Adrian is also currently playing drums with a punk band.

++ Why did you like the colour blue so much?

Gavin: I do like blue, how did you know! The deep blue ocean and a beautiful endless sky. And of course its the saddest colour of all…

Christina: Connections to blue are melancholy. Though the songs do not have a ‘Blues’ sound, some of them do have the deep emotions of Blues and I think they are also about the familiar ‘things that we knew.’ (Like Blues) On the flip side, I also believe in ‘Blue Skies’!!

Stephen: Blue is a great colour and it goes with everything. Also the word conjures up imagery that is both personal and universal.

++ Who wrote the lyrics, who did you write them for & how did the others act when they finally heard what was going to be the next lifesaving hit? Were there tears when everything eventually clicked?

Gavin: I wrote most of the lyrics, with Christina doing a few songs also. The tears were ones of sadness and joy! Nothing really clicked, we were usually ‘winging it’, but in some cases the results were pretty good!
Christina: Gavin wrote most of them so he should get the credit but the ones that I wrote were mainly to do with the unhappy time I had at University and a boy I had a crush on who had been to prison. (I was very young and impressionable at the time!)

Stephen: Although I played on a few of the songs I still think of myself as more of a ‘fan’. I love all of the songs. I think the music strikes just the right balance of melody, emotion and energy. When Gavin first played The Proctors demo tape to me I was absolutely knocked out by the songs. There were no tears – just excitement!

++ What did you eat on tour? Did you ever slept on floors? Any particular gig you remember the most?

Gavin: Many times! Usually with a big dog licking my face. That was a good hangover cure! In London we played with Drugstore and Tom Yorke and Michael Stipe turned up. I was pleased to play at the Hacienda in Manchester also. Ian Brown gave me a high five and Rob Gretton who managed Joy Division popped into our dressing room! I’m such a name dropper! These gigs were with Groupie.
Stephen: The Proctors never played a live show. When we started in 1993 the indie scene in the UK was on it’s last legs. The fanzines had died out, nobody was releasing records or starting labels. There was more interest in the band from Europe and the USA – which would have made touring difficult. The indiepop scene of the early 90s wasn’t very romantic although looking back it was great fun. The Cudgels played some good shows. My favourite gigs were the ones we used to do with Po!

++ Almost all your songs mention, in some way, mention space related stuff like the moon, a shooting star, sunshine & Jupiter, by any chance do you believe in astrology? Or maybe you wished to be an astronaut when little? What are the Proctors zodiac signs?

Gavin: I like the idea of space. An endless silent vacuum. I like Ray Bradbury stories like ‘The Kaleidoscope’. I like anything really that can’t be explained by the powers that be. Spiritual stuff. Why does a smell or a song not just bring back a memory, but make you feel a way you did when you heard it years ago. I think thats a kind of time travel…Yes I’m a believer! I love lucid dreams and hairs standing up on the back of your neck. I bet you regret asking that question! I am known to my family for making ‘cosmic comments’ as they call them. Not sure if I believe in horoscopes, seems a bit simplistic, I mean you wouldn’t leave the house on certain days!

Gavin- sagittarius
Christina -Scorpio
Adrian – Virgo
Stephen – Aquarius

Christina: I think anything to do with ’space’ means ‘optimism’ because it shows there is a massive wide world out there full of possibilities. It also reminds us how small (and sometimes fragile) we all are in the greater scheme of things. I think that space also reminds us of how we should all try and be conscious of the ‘universality’ of mankind’s existence.
Christina is a Scorpio. Fiery and fiercely determined. People often think of Scorpio’s mainly to do with the nasty ’sting’ in the tail but one very positive quality is that Scorpio’s are ‘firecely loyal.’ (You will never get a better friend than a Scorpio!)

++ What band did you secretly wanted to be? Why didn’t you become the new Smiths? (Who needs bands like The Smiths while in your adolescence when all you really need is songs like ‘Only Stupid’ or ‘My Youth’ & you’ll be alright!)

Gavin: That’s nice of you to say. Christina wrote the lyrics to ‘My Youth’. ‘Only Stupid’ deals with nostalgia in some ways, I’m terribly nostalgic. And theres a touch of ‘Beam me up Scotty’ in there. I blame David Bowie’s Space Oddity being on the radio all the time when I was about 5.

Stephen: I had always wanted to be in either the original six piece Primal Scream line-up or the original Sea Urchins line up pre-Pristine Christine. That single was released too late – they had lost it by that stage. During the summer of 1986 The Sea Urchins were at their pure pop peak. They were untouchable.

++ What does it takes to create perfection, like you did in ‘Liveforever’?

Gavin: Ha! I like you. Its one of our best efforts perhaps…Lovely and sad! A love song. I was always a little embarrassed about my lyrics, usually picking words that rhyme over any real meaning. But I think subconsciously I wrote things that meant a lot to me. Glad you like that one.

++ Who took the amazing band pictures & why didnt you all win ‘Britian’s best dressed’? my curiosity doesn’t have limits; who got the most girls?

Gavin: That was Debbie Williams – Pete Williams’ wife (he of Dexy’s Midnight Runners fame) We were at college together when I met Pete for the first time and I was star struck as I was listening a lot to Dexy’s first album at the time. Yes good photos! Christina usually got the most girls, which doesn’t say much for the rest of us!

When the Proctors turned up at the studio for our first recording session, guess who the engineer was? Pete. ‘Oh no’ I thought, ‘I have to sing in front of him!’ He recorded all our stuff from then on. Stoker from Dexy’s also popped in during a visit to Pete and Debbie, which was nerve racking for our drummer Ade!

Stephen: I think Gavin is being a little modest here – he was always pretty successful with the girls. He’s got a lovely cheeky smile! Ade did okay and I came in a poor third. I don’t think my technique was very good. I would start conversations with girls about obscure indiepop records and if they hadn’t heard them I would lose interest. Sadly my approach hasn’t improved over the years. Britain’s Best Dressed? Hmmm .. we were pretty good.

++ How did your rehearsals look like? were there biscuits involved or just strict practicing?

Gavin: Yes of course it was a very strict regime. There were custard creams involved as I recall.

Stephen: I can only remember attending one rehearsal. Malted Milk are probably my favourite biscuits but it generally depends on my mood. I suppose the variety packs are the best option.

++ Speaking of biscuits; who made the coffee, or did you prefer tea?

Gavin: I like tea usually..

Christina: Always tea

Stephen: Coffee in the mornings then tea from luchtime onwards.

++ Whatever happened to Christine after The Proctors? She ended up being Queen Elizabeth’s personal singer?

Gavin: I don’t think she’d be allowed into the Palace

Christina: Christina now lives in Edinburgh, Scotland, where she has made her home. She has a career but enjoys writing creatively. This is a link to an article she had publised about some time she spent living in New York. http://www.bettyconfidential.com/ar/h/a/a01731.html

++ How did your fanbase look like? Please send me a picture if you have so I can copy the look!

Gavin: I will find you a picture

Stephen: It is hard to know what the fanbase looked like as the internet hadn’t really got going and the band didn’t play live. I would say the fans are quite an intelligent bunch.

++ Did you design the artwork for your releases?

Gavin: No unfortunately.

++ Who played the flute on ‘The Other Side of the River’? I dont know if it was with purpose but I always have a king’s fool dancing around on a field with his flute & a nun swaying back & forth singing the vocals in my head. Or yeah OK, I’m pretty sure that’s just me

Gavin: That would make a great video…Pete Williams played the harmonica, and we all imagined a tramp coming out from a canal bridge playing this harmonica bit! Thats 3 great characters for the video. I would have to be the fool as I played the flute (well penny whistle). Christina would be the nun, but who would be the rent boy!

++ All of your songs are quite different. It’s genius how you still managed to make every track flawless. Were you always interested in trying out new sounds and styles and not just sticking to a formula?

Gavin: I suppose we like different types of music. Yes we like experimenting!

++ Which Balti house is your favourite in town? Which football team do you support?!

Gavin: Cafe Le Spice and Wolverhampton Wanderers

Stephen: There are a couple of good balti houses in Walsall and Aldridge. I support Walsall FC.

++ I loved Farewell Farewell, and that is the last song, in order, that was released by The Proctors. After that, it was farewell indeed. Was that on purpose? Why did you call it a day? What did The Proctors do after?

Gavin: That was on purpose…subconsciously. I was in another band. The Proctors had run its course I suppose. We are all alive and well, and totally cosmic! Myself and Adrian may be embarking upon some new Proctors material soon.

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Listen
The Proctors – Black Tattoos

Thanks to Ian Kirton for the interview!

++ What does The Daisychain Connection means? Was The Daisychain Connection your first musical experience, if not what earlier band were you in? What was the main motivation for starting the band?

The name came from a series of short stories written for radio by Stephen about a spoof detective named Jack Daisychain.

We had all played in bands prior to forming The Daisychain Connection. Vocalist Stephen and drummer Neil were in “Chimes at Midnight”.

Guitarist Ian and keyboards/bass player David were in “Beyond the Wall” and original bass player Pete was in “The Kittiwakes”. They all played original material and were similar in style to the DC although “The Kittiwakes” were more intense and serious!

We all vaguely knew each other through seeing each others bands play and our bands were due to split at roughly the same time for one reason or another so we formed the Daisychain because we all wanted to carry on playing and writing music.

++ What is the full discography, including demos, of the band? I can’t find any info online!

The first demo we did was done in 1986 in Crimson Studios, Manchester and contained 4 tracks. “Julie Come Home”, “You’ll Always Be There”

“There’s nothing Like Perfection” and “Sirens Call”. We sent this round numerous record companies which created quite a lot of interest. One night soon after we had 5 major companies come up from London to see us play in a tiny club in a small town called Penrith just south of Carlisle.

MCA were interested in signing us but wanted us to do another demo first which they paid for. They booked us in to Drone studios in Manchester where the Smiths had done some early recordings.

We recorded “You’ll always Be There” and “Nothing Like Perfection” again and a new song called “Janette” but the majority of the time was spent getting the “perfect drum sound” by an obsessed producer which pleased Neil no end but didn’t leave much time for anything else like vocals! After we’d finished and although we were in a far superior studio we all knew that the first demo of the songs we’d done was much better.

The A n R guy at MCA that dealt with us wanted to sign us but he couldn’t convince his superiors and, alas it never happened.

We didn’t have a manager at the time and we thought it was the main reason that MCA was put off us. 1, because they thought we weren’t taking it all totally seriously and 2, didn’t have anyone to negotiate the business side with as we didn’t have a clue at the time.

We decided to get a manager but we chose very badly and although he convinced us he knew what he was doing, he didn’t, in fact, a manager made of chocolate would’ve been more use!

Very sadly, bass player Pete then died in a house fire which knocked us all for 6.

We decided to carry on with another bass player and recorded another demo in Carlisle containing “S.W.A.L.K”, “The Day Before Yesterday” and a cover of the Simon and Garfunkel track “Feeling Groovy”.

The next recording was “Bingo and Bossa Nova” done in Newcastle which we released ourselves on 7” Vinyl with “Coal Necklace” on the B side.

The last demo was recorded ourselves in our practice room in 1990 and contained “King of Finland, “Casey Rides Again” “Mood Swings and “My My”. We have recently re-recorded these 4 along with “Wash Day”, “My Lip Hit the Floor”, “You’ll Always Be There”, “Julie Come Home”, “Kiss Of Life” and “Real Life Soap” all of which will be on an a CD album soon to be released ourselves.

++ You have recorded, twenty years later, new songs for a yet unreleased album. Something that strikes me, is that the sound of your songs haven’t lost that fantastic 80s jangle pop sound! How do you do it? Why did you decide to reunite after such a long time? How was this reunion? Was it like the good old days?

The songs recently recorded are not new. They were all written in the late 80s and early 90s. However, we have all recorded new material for various different projects over the years and we all remain slaves to the jangle! We have worshipped and studied the ways of the great god of jangle Johnny Marr! As long as Johnny is alive to guide us the jangle will always flow freely from us!

We decided to re-record 10 songs mainly because we didn’t have decent recordings of a lot of them. Recordings mainly existed on dodgy cassettes so we thought it would be good to use the better recording equipment available to us now to re-record them and get them onto CD. It was also fun to go into the studio again as a band. We have all remained good friends since the DC split up in 1991 but hadn’t played together much so it was just like old times.

++ You supported The Beautiful South, which other bands did you play with? Did The Daisychain Connection gig a lot? Which are the gigs you remember the most?

As the DC we didn’t have that many big support gigs. We supported a band called Martin Stephenson and the Daintees quite a lot at a local venue called the Front Page. We also supported “Runrig”, who were massive in Scotland at the time, at the same venue where the Beautiful South gig was.

We did a lot of support gigs in our previous bands with the likes of “Del Amitri”, “The Housemartins”, “The Woodentops”, “The Men They Couldn’t Hang”, “It Bites” and “Jamie Wednesday”.

We did gig a lot which we usually set up and organised ourselves. We used to arrange buses for fans from Carlisle to come and see us when we played in other cities.

The most memorable was definitely the Beautiful South Support gig as this was the most people we ever played to. Another one that sticks out is when we played with 5 major record company execs in the audience at a small venue in Penrith.

Another great one was Coventry University where we played really well and were well received.

We very nearly got on a tour with The Housemartins. In the end it was between us and a band called The Farm. The Farm got it because they were already signed, we were totally gutted!

++ My friend Emma asks: Who’s Julie – the queen of Finland? & speaking of Finland – how come you wrote a song about Finland’s king when they haven’t had one for nearly a century? will you write about the king of Sweden next time? he’s quite charming you know.

Julie was just a fictitious character created for the song which was about disillusioned youth.

There’s a long story associated with “The King of Finland”. At the time it was written we were very keen on rolling our own mind altering cigarettes. As they increased in size they became known as “great white cigars” this was then shortened to “great white” and then to “shark”. A DC member finding himself in Finland (shark fin land) was more to do with the state he found himself in after smoking several “sharks” than a visit to the country!

The king of Finland became one of the many fictitious characters that Stephen would draw on cassette covers. He even designed his own wrapping paper where the king would regularly appear!

The song, being about complete fantasy, was named this for the very reason that Finland didn’t have a king!

We hope this is not in any way offensive to Finnish people and was never intended to be so.

++ And she had another question: At the same time you emerged to the music scene in 1986 from Carlisle, Belinda Carlisle married Morgan Mason! Was there any connection? Maybe a tribute? Is heaven a place on earth? Maybe ‘Real Life Soap’ was inspired by Morgan Mason & his involvement in TV?

We’re really sorry Emma but the fact that we hail form Carlisle has nothing to do with Belinda. Although we were fans of Belinda’s first band, fellow jangle merchants The Go Gos, so she could have been an influence on us! And she did once play in Carlisle!

++ When in Eastenders (the BBC soap opera), the Angie character tried to commit suicide by taking pills, many viewers tried to do the same. That’s one of the cases of Real-Life Soap. If listeners were to follow the steps of The Daisychain Connection, what would be the example you’d like to give them?

Although our lyrics can be melodramatic and a bit serious we like to think that the care free feel of the jangle portrays a tongue in cheek view of life. The DC message would be enjoy the gift of life, don’t take things for granted and don’t spend too much time worrying about the future or the past, live in the moment.

On the subject of Eastenders and soap operas in general, the DC is concerned that too many people get wrapped and tangled up in fictitious lives and situations which gets in the way of enjoying their own lives.

++ What was the biggest highlight for The Daisychain Connection? What do you miss the most from those days?

One of the best feelings ever was when a gig sold out but there would still be a queue of people outside the venue trying to get in. We were sad for those left outside but at the same time, excited that there was so much interest.

The biggest highlight was probably getting interest from so many major record labels with our first demo.

++ The band seem pretty obscure, I’ve never seen it mentioned in fanzines from that era… were you involved at all with fanzines at the time?

We were featured in a Manchester fanzine and also did an interview with Melody Maker.

++ Watching the video for Sirens Call what catches my attention is Stephen’s dancing! I can’t recall many bands from that time that had their singer dancing around! Where did he learn those moves? Does he still dance like this?

Stephen first learned to dance while on holiday at the classic British holiday camp “Pontins” in the 1970s doing “the Slosh”. Unfortunately, some of these moves stayed with him even after extensive dance therapy! Careful analysis of his moves will reveal him skiing without the skis or snow.

++ Have any of you fallen into the Curse of Carlisle?

Thankfully, no! Well not that we know of!

++ Why and when did you call it a day? What did you do after the breakup?

In the late 80s the UK music scene was starting to be dominated by dance and rave music and it became increasingly difficult for guitar based live bands to get regular gigs and many record companies weren’t looking to sign bands like us, preferring to go down the dance route. This became frustrating for us and we decided to call it a day in 1991.

We then went off in many directions some of which will be on a new web site we are developing. Including a collaboration between Stephen and Ian called Dunn & Kirton producing another jangle led 10 track album.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

www.daisychaintunes.com will be launched late April 2009 where amongst many other tracks, the DC songs will be available to download for free.

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Listen
The Daisychain Connection – Julie Come Home

Thanks so much to Nick Clay for the interview!

++ What happened (to you my dearest friend) in between The Pink Toilets and Pink Noise? Why did you decide to change the name? Did you release anything under The Pink Toilets?

The move from Pink Toilets to Pink Noise was seamless, really. We had got together in late 1984 at University. Our first gig was a showcase of the various bands that had grown out of the Musicians Soc and we needed a name. I can’t recall why we thought The Pink Toilets was a good idea for a name. We played the gig and went down fairly well and were offered the opportunity to play again at the university. I think it was after that second gig that we realised that the name was something of an albatross. Nothing was ever even recorded as The Pink Toilets. Thank god.

++ Where did the the obvious obsession with pink came from? Was this a way to attract girls, getting the proper ‘hard on the outside, soft on the inside’ image?

It’s all a bit vague now, but I think we thought that retaining the pink theme might ensure some continuity, and we came up with Pink Noise by a process of simply adding random words to ‘pink’ until we came up with something that none of us violently objected to. Your thought-processes as to how to get a band name are much cleverer than those we used I’m afraid.

++ Where did you all meet? Did you all attend Hull University? What were you studying?

Although we are all the same age Dave and Sam (just about everyone calls him Sam, even though he is really Steve) had been at Hull a year before I arrived as I’d taken a year out prior to university. They’d been in a band in their first year that had died in the summer of 1984. Sam had approached me at the first Musicians Soc meeting and said he was looking to form a band, and told me he knew a drummer from the previous year. We had a chat and sorted out a jam. At one stage (perhaps only the first practice) there was another bloke who played saxophone. I can’t even remember his name now.

Sam did a degree in geography. Dave and I did Social and Economic History.

Later on Chris Elliott from the Gargoyles joined and played some gigs with us, but that was as we were knock, knock, knocking on the door of oblivion.

++ Was Steve’s hair naturally uberblonde?

In the sense that hydrogen peroxide is natural, yes. Now his head’s naturally uberbald.

++ The idea of being in an university band with friends called “Pink Noise” sounds like a fantastic way of spending your youth! How did common Saturdays look like for the band? What did Hull as an university city had to offer?

It was great, but we weren’t in each other’s pockets the whole time. Some bands are like cliques of friends who only hang around together, but we didn’t, for instance, only go out together on a Saturday as a group. Hull is a small enough place to make it reasonably likely that you’ll meet up anyway. Hull isn’t as big a university city as Leeds or Manchester, so the options were probably fairly limited. Early on the routine would be; get pissed in the student bar, go to Spiders nightclub, walk home. Later I started going to gigs that Hull’s ranting poet Swift Nick was putting on at the Trades and Labour Club (The Nightingales, Skeletal Family and so on) and the Welly Club. Later still I ended up spending my time at the famous Adelphi Club.

++ Apart from playing in the band & studying what activity/hobby did you have? As friends, how close were you? Ever had a fight? Did a Yoko exist, maybe?

It would be great to say I had an ‘activity/hobby’. But I didn’t.

I think we were pretty close friends – we all invested time in the band, got together to practice regularly, crammed ourselves into hire-vans to drive to gigs, and generally had a laugh. I don’t remember any fights in the sense of anyone punching anyone else. Bit of mardiness maybe. No Yoko’s. We all had girlfriends, but they never tried to join in the band. Or make films of our bottoms.

++ What was your first ambition with the band? Was it being on Top of the Pops really what you were after?

I think we wanted to be famous-I remember earnestly explaining my pop-star plans to one of my house-mates. He seemed pretty interested. Then it dawned on me that he was gently taking the piss. I don’t think we were aiming for real fame, fortune and TOTP, but when The Housemartins hit the big-time I think all the local bands thought a little of the crumbs from their table might fall our way

++ What & Who were your biggest influences? During the early stages of the band what other musicians & records did you discuss in a ‘this is how we want to sound’ way? Have you had any earlier music experience?

No earlier or later bands for me. One problem that we had as a band was we didn’t have an obviously coherent look or sound. Sam was a big Jam and Blondie fan, I liked The Cure and Dave liked all sorts of odd stuff. But we had an over-lapping taste as well. When I think about it now I don’t think we ever sat down and discussed what we should sound like, and I certainly wasn’t a good enough guitarist to play authentically in any other style apart from the one I had (and still have). So we were stuck with what we had got.

++ How important was the Adelphi for you? Was it a place where Hull bands could feel there was some kind of community?

The Adelphi was central. We played there, hung out and watched other bands there…Sam got a job there as manager when he graduated so we stored our gear there and used the stage for rehearsals. It was the focal point for all the local musicians in Hull. An amazing, grotty dive in the middle of a Victorian terraced street. Some of the worst and best bands I ever saw played there. Paul Jackson was prepared to give everyone a chance to play. There were 2-4 bands a night for 7 days a week. Sometimes the sweat was dripping off the ceiling, sometimes there were more people on stage than in the audience. We were lucky when we first started playing there that we had a ready-made student following so that we could usually pull a reasonable crowd. But the important thing there for me was always how it played to the other local musicians. Local bands were always watched by other musicians. Everyone was checking the competition out all of the time. It was a mutually supportive community. With some back-stabbing thrown in.

++ What was the gig you remember the most and why? Who would you have wanted to share the headline?

I dunno really. I sort of remember the Housemartins signing gig at the Adelphi. It was the first time we’d played there and possibly the first time I’d ever been there. We got equal shares with them and the other acts-about fifty quid- the place was packed and we went down well. Although I’d seen the Housemartins play several times before, and had shared the bill with them, this was the point at which I realized that what everyone was saying about them was true. The exact moment came as they rehearsed ‘Joy, joy, joy’ in the soundcheck. No-one else was doing four-part harmony acapella and it was a revelation.

++ What was the full discography of Pink Noise, do you remember?

Leaving aside some largely well dodgy cassette demos that we did, our limited vinyl career went as follows;

1987 Thin End of the Wedge

1988 Everything/Move for You/Ghosts

1989 On My Mind- a track on compilation album ‘Knee Deep in Shit, volume 8’

All in all not a difficult list to remember.

++ Your first single “Thin Edge of the Wedge” got great reviews but your second, “Everything / Move for You”, got almost no attention! Why do you think that happened?

I don’t know about ‘great’ reviews but it was generally well received. I think that TEotW was a chugging 4-minute indie anthem and fitted in easily with the prevailing scene. The problem with the next release was it didn’t fall into any obvious camp. Everything was trying too hard to be a radio-friendly pop song, whilst Move for You was also supposed to be the A-side. That’s ok if you’re the Beatles putting out Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane but a bit dumb if you’re nobody. With hindsight I think it may have been better to put Move for You out first as there was a continuity of sound following on from TEotW and then put out Everything. Who knows? Or cares?

++ Pink Noise recorded a song called “I Won’t Miss You (When You’re Gone)” and it was directed to Margaret Thatcher. How politically involved were you during those tough years in Great Britain?

We were committed, I think. We did lots of benefit gigs at the time as did all of the local bands. There was a real feeling of active opposition to what was going on.

Times were tough. The miner’s strike was on when we started and, although Hull isn’t a mining area, it was only a short drive to the South Yorkshire coalfields. The city was on it’s uppers at the time, really. The fishing industry had collapsed, there was significant local unemployment. There were people collecting money in buckets for striking miners outside the shops, benefit gigs for miners and South African trades unionists at the Adelphi and so on. Thatcher and her government had determined to crush mining communities, called Mandela a terrorist, supported apartheid, and encouraged greed. It was an intensely frustrating time. I was glad when she got booted out. She won’t be forgiven. Mind you Tony Blair was as bad.

I’ve always liked songs that are ostensibly about one thing when in fact they’re about another; The Ruts’ Love in Vain being one of the best examples.

++ You released on Reasonable Records which was Ted Key’s, of Housemartin’s fame. label. He also produced your singles, right? How was working with him? Any anecdotes you’d like to share?

Ted played bass for the Housemartins. Then got dismissed. Or left. Or something. He also played guitar for The Gargoyles a great band who were largely met with stunned surprise by audiences outside of Hull. Reasonable Records was a label that Ted set up with, I think John Rowley of Red Guitars. I think it only put out Pink Noise and Gargoyles records. It wasn’t a very big venture. It was fine working with Ted. He was very enthusiastic and we wanted someone who we knew to be in charge because we didn’t know what to do in the studio. And no-one else was interested.

I’m not sure about anecdotes. He might get me killed. I know that when we recorded Everything he told us to go away and stop bothering him whilst he and the engineer worked on the mix. When we came back it sounded miles better than when we’d been there. Also he played the guitar solo on Ghosts and some thwacka-thwacka noises on Move for You. Perhaps he redid all the other parts on Everything whilst we were gone as well?

++ How come things got downhill AFTER John Peel played your song “Thin End of the Wedge”? Did you feel like you achieved enough & that it was time to leave with the flag waving on the top?

I think TEotW marked the start of us writing good songs, but it was also the time that our student support began to slip away as people that we knew at University were leaving Hull. John Peel playing our record was great. It was more or less all that I’d ever realistically hoped for as far as being in a band was concerned so I was very satisfied. But of course you think it’s a road to musical world domination.

We carried on plugging away and, in general, I think we became a better band from 1987 onwards. Just less…wanted.

++ What is that that you miss the most of playing with your mates?

Just that really. Playing. I used to like it best when we rehearsed and a new song would suddenly come together out of a riff or chord change or drum pattern. That was thrilling.

++ Why & when did the band call it a day? How was the goodbye party if you ever had one, or did things just run though your fingers like sand through the hourglass (so are the days of our lives) what did you do all after? You ever got together again & thought ‘hey why not regroup’ while talking good old memories but then before parting decided that maybe it wouldnt be such a good idea?

I’m not even sure when it finished. Some time in 1990, I think. Sam left Hull under a cloud after he and Paul Jackson fell out and that was it. No last Candlestick Park/Winterland Ballroom gig for us. I’m sure it was time to call it a day anyway- we were all broke and it was time to put away childish things. I got married in June 1990 and my daughter was born in October of that year.

We’ve not all been in the same room-or within hundreds of miles of each other for nearly 20 years now.

If we could get it together I would like us to have a jam together again some time. We were always a tight band and it’d be fun to see if we could still hold a song together.

++ What do you all do nowadays?

I have my own law firm representing the criminals and alleged criminals of Hull and East Yorkshire

Dave joined Secret of Life and they put a fantastic ep that got NME single of the week. Any of the tracks would have been a highlight of the This Mortal Coil album had they been on it. Then he fell out with them and sold his drums and bough an expensive hifi. He lives near to where I live and works for the local council as a planning officer. We go out for a night’s drinking together every few months, get pissed and talk about stuff.

Sam lives and works in Madrid. I met up with him for the day when I was in Spain last summer. It was the first time we’d seen each other for about 18 years. We cried, hugged….no we didn’t. But it was good to see him.

Chris Elliott got married last year and his raving days as a Beautiful South hanger on/temporary bass player behind him. My family and his family went out for Sunday lunch recently.

I play Scrabble online with Sam and Dave every day on Facebook.

Not very rock n’ roll

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Read more my efforts to pin Pink Noise and the other Hull bands onto the wall of history at http://www.nickclay.karoo.net/

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Listen
Pink Noise – Beverly Westwood