Thanks so much to Pete, Rocker, Yoland and Glenn for the interview! Big hugs!

++ You have quite an up to date page, and a great interview by Kieron were almost everything is covered! So this is quite a tough job for me. So I’m going to go for some obscure facts if that’s okay? First thing I wonder is if you were involved in any pop bands after or before The Rosehips? I only know Rocker was on Flatmates and Ant and Mark 2 had the Venus Beads.

Glenn: Keyboards in Trouserdog – a Fall tribute band who don’t play Fall songs.

Yoland: In 26 years, when I’ve retired and if I live that long, I will be forming the perfect prog-folk-surf-punk band in tribute to my favourite purveyors of those genres. Any takers?

Rocker: I was a part-time member of Bristol-based band Flying Saucer Attack (sequencing drums, playing keyboards, production & co-wrote a couple of songs). I also played keyboards for a few other Bristol bands e.g. McDowell, The Family, Spectrasonic.

Pete: Around the same time as the Rosehips, I was in the Speedpuppies. Mark 1 played drums with us after we’d done a couple of gigs with a drum machine. We tried to sound like the Shop Assistants – surprise, surprise! Liz, our original singer, wore shades and stripey tops during our rehearsals but left when we got a gig because the thought of playing in public terrified her. The Speedpuppies recorded one demo (we sent a copy to Sarah Records) and did about six gigs before things fizzled out. After the Rosehips had split up, I was in Jack in the Green with Corinne and Caroline, with Mark 1 again playing drums. We played around ten gigs and recorded two demos. After that, I was in Trilemma – a two piece recording band, who didn’t play live. Trilemma ran the Blue Minnow cdr label, recorded the Crowded Wilderness 7” ep for Kitchen Records, gave away our lp, “Push What Is Collapsing” with Robots And Electronic Brains fanzine as a subscribers freebee, recorded a mini album called Caveat Emptor, released by Fence Records as part of their Picket Fence series and recorded various songs which were issued with paper fanzines. And now I’m in Horowitz.

++ You recorded a cover version of The Chesterfields’ “Ask Johnny Dee” for the Sweet William flexi. Why did you choose this particular song? And how did you end up on this rare flexi that came with the Two Pint Take Home fanzine?

Glenn: We liked the original and were friendly with the Chesterfields even though we thought their music was a bit drippy! So we thought it would be funny to ‘punk it up’ a bit. I doubt they were very impressed.

Yoland: As a general rule, everything should go faster, but once speeded-up this transmogrified into Echo Beach (Martha & the Muffins 1970-something), which amused us greatly, because it was a mild irritant to the beautiful Chesterfields, or so I recall.

Rocker: Before my time!

Pete: Mine too, though I think I popped down to the studio during the recording.

++ You shared that flexi with The Fat Tulips. Years later, when the band had already split up, the Bloodstained Fur 7″ appears on the Tulip’s label, Heaven Records. I guess you had a close relationship with them?

Yoland: So close I remember nothing, they must have used Rohypnol.

Glenn: I’m not sure I even met the Fat Tulips except for Mark of course.

Pete: I’ve got to know Mark more since the Rosehips split up. I used to be over in Nottingham watching gigs in the early 90s, bumped into him a few times and went to his wedding. It’s only since meeting the Cut Outs that I’ve spoken with Paul, who was one of the Fat Tulips Nottingham contingent, who used to arrive at our gigs armed with cut up newspaper confetti!

++ But why did it take that long for these tracks to be released? How did Heaven decide to release it?

Glenn: I have no idea about how it came about I’m afraid. As usual I wasn’t paying attention.

Rocker: I was going to release it on my own (planned) record label, Bhaji Records (It’s catalogue number was Onion1) – but when the band split up shortly after the recording sessions, I decided not to proceed with it, as we used to sell most of our records at our gigs (before t’internet) so it would probably have never broken even. When Heaven Records heard about the tracks we’d recorded they offered to release it – it was one of our finest moments, in my opinion! And I still have a box of them in my spare bedroom.

++ How involved were The Rosehips with fanzines?

Yoland: Other than answering questions and fooling about, we weren’t, were we?

Glenn: We got sent loads of interview questions and always tried to reply but they were all very samey.

++ Did any of you ever make one?

Rocker: I never did – but I’m sure Pete and Glenn each did.

Pete: I didn’t make one at the time, no. Glenn wrote one though – Vandalized Idol.

Glenn: Yes, Vandalized Idol which was shit.

Pete: It’s a great little zine – it’s about time you did a second issue!

Yoland: Iconoclastic Cardies?

Pete: Oh yes, Iconoclastic Cardies – I was a bit slow off the mark! Twenty years too slow! I put the first issue together to mark the 20 year anniversary. Lots of people contributed to it. The colour version was referred to as “like a holiday brochure” – thanks Jamie!

++ Chaotic Brilliance was your own label, right? Your only release was The Sympathy for the Rosehips? Or was there something else? In any case, did you ever think releasing some other bands when you set it up? If so, which bands would you have dreamed to release?

Rocker: Chaotic Brilliance was Ant’s label – in those days the right-wing Tory UK government ran a scheme called the Enterprise Allowance Scheme – basically it was a way of fixing the unemployment figures. If you were on the dole you could set up your own business, and still get an allowance from the state, instead of the dole. So your name was removed from the unemployment figures – making the government look better. The advantage for the individual was that you no longer had to pretend to be “looking for work” ie go to job interviews and on courses, in order to receive your dole. I expect a similar scheme to be announced any day now. So Ant was able to devote his time and effort to setting up the record label. As far as I know, no other releases were planned – unless Ant can tell you different!

Glenn: Our favourite group was The Membranes, and the label name was taken from one of their record sleeves, so I guess they would have been the ‘dream band.’

Yoland: Ant should’ve got in there before the big Tom Jones revival, put out the back catalogue and retired.

++ Why on the Secret compilation you didn’t include all of your recorded output? Maybe it was too much? After all it included 22 songs already. Will we ever see those tracks that missed the cut on CD someday?

Glenn: I thought it was everything but as I say I don’t often pay enough attention. Rocker dealt with all that really.

Yoland: Output as in “put out” yes, output as in every learning curve and exercise along the way, no and neither should it.  If J K Rowling released the napkin version of Harry Potter, it would have failed to fulfil its potential (which we did anyway) and never made it to book two, for example.

Rocker: I think we included almost everything! Omissions I can think of:
“Ask Johnny Dee” – the master tape was never returned after the original flexi was cut – we could have taken it from the flexi – but the quality was considered too poor;
“A Slow Painful Death To Vivisectionists Everywhere” – there are two versions – one with Yoland’s spoken vocal, one without – can’t remember which was on the compilation but it was such a long track that we wouldn’t have put both on the same CD
“Bloodstained Fur” there was a short version on the 7″, and I think we put the longer version on the CD.
Oh, and there are a few dodgy cover versions we played live, such as “Too Much Too Young” by The Specials, which I could never play drums fast enough for.

Pete: The cover version of the Stones’ The Last Time just about makes it to the first line at the end of the compilation – there’s a full version of that somewhere. It was only recorded live though. We had a bash at Sonic Youth’s Star Power in rehearsals but never recorded it. There’s a live tape from the Punk Rock EEC Mountain from 1986 and a live tape from Stoke in 87 or 88.

Rocker: No plans to release anything else but that live version of “The Last Time” is on the “1989Live” CD which I put out on my own LocalUnderground label at the time of “The Fucking Rosehips” (aka The Parallelograms) gigs in late 2007. It was recorded at our penultimate gig – supporting The Wedding Present at a Greenpeace benefit in Plymouth – there’s also a fantastic sleeve pic of us all looking very young, stood in front of a sign saying “Bristol Centre For The Deaf”, which happened to be just opposite our Bristol rehearsal room. I still have a few copies if anyone wants one!

Rocker: On the subject of the compilation – we have no copies left. The last thing I heard from Leonard Roberge of Secret Records was that he had some copies left under his bed, which we would like to buy! However we have lost contact so if anyone knows how to contact Leonard, please pass on my email: rockerq@aol.com

++ Did you ever think about releasing an album?

Glenn: Nobody ever asked us. I can’t imagine it would have been any good.

Yoland: I think we were developing and changing too much to have had an album’s worth of comparable tracks at the time.  There was one in us, about 12 months after we ended!  It’s a bit like the output issue: some stuff is what you do when you’re learning and most bands learn before they release.  And don’t get all Sex Pistols about it – gigs are different, but committing to vinyl is another thing.  The Pistols didn’t make a record as shambolic as their first gigs. We on the other hand, never did a gig as shambolic as our first recordings….

Rocker: Neither line-up of the band ever had enough material to fill an LP – pretty much our entire recorded works fitted onto one CD!

Pete: Making a whole album never crossed my mind. I always thought we were more suited to 7” singles or 12”s eps.

++ How many demo tapes did The Rosehips record? Are there any songs on those that never made it to proper releases?

Glenn: No idea, sorry.

Yoland: Our very first “lets see what we sound like on tape” experience took place in a studio, which would have been just fine, if (a) the studio had no bloody cat and an owner who had heard of housework or (b) I was not horribly, anaphylactic-ly allergic to cats. You can play a guitar with a cat allergy, briefly, but singing requires the ability to breathe!  Dave was very accommodating about the toilet facilities and the phobia though, so it could have been worse.

Pete: There are a couple of demos from 1986. Of the nine songs “Cracked It”, “Trucker’s” and “A Much Bigger World” were never released in any form. The other tracks were all re-recorded and ended up on the Subway releases. On the two Bristol 1988 demos, Caffeine Fuel Injection” was never released, neither was the vocal version of A Slow Painful Death. When I Want Your Opinion was remixed by Rocker for the b side of the Heaven Records 7”, but the unreleased demo version has an audible vocal! The other tracks on the Bristol demos were re-recorded and ended up on the Sympathy 12” and/or the Secret compilation.

++ What about the Airspace! compilation where you contributed “Crazy Kind of Normal”? How did you end up here?

Glenn: I think it was a charity in Bristol, therefore a Rocker connection.

Yoland: Is the answer: Rocker had a hot air balloon?

Rocker: I think they approached us, so we gave them a track from one of our Bristol demos – I think Rupert from the Groove Farm, and Sara Tacchi their driver, had something to do with the charity – there’s quite a hotch-potch of bands on there! (We used to play a lot of gigs with the Groove Farm)

++ Tell me… what’s the deal with Judy’s Boyfriend? Is it a real story?

Yoland: Somebody Glenn knew? Was Glenn the boyfriend in the tale?  I wasn’t Judy.

Glenn: No it’s just a combination of Judy is a Punk and I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend by the Ramones.

Rocker: It was the fastest song we ever played!

++ What happened at the Manchester Boardwalk gig that you got banned!?

Yoland: Our lovely friends got slightly carried away with the shredded paper (before shredding machines, so that was dedication!) The paper covered the venue, probably gave the cleaners a fit and it soaked all the brandy out of my glass.  In addition, the new manager was a twat and tried to give us a drugs lecture, which I didn’t take kindly too, being a loyal and regular paying-customer of said venue, not to mention a stroppy young thing from a village where drugs were just the reminiscences of hippy parents.  Years later I did find myself in Moss Side with a mate needing gear, it was easier and quicker than buying bread, but hey – the man was still wrong about us. We were from Barlaston – still a drug free-zone and best kept village – ish.

Glenn: Nothing happened really except the janitor had to spend an extra 5 minutes sweeping up confetti.

Rocker: I really don’t remember being banned – although we did have a bunch of people who travelled to our gigs in a van, spent the journeys tearing up old telephone directories, and threw it as confetti when we played – that would probably have been enough to do it (although I went to see Grace Jones last week, and would you believe it, she’s copped our idea!)

++ What other gigs spring up to mind?

Yoland: Other gigs, TJ’s, Plymouth, Norwich Arts Centre, Glastonbury, any gig in Bristol…

Pete: TJ’s Newport with Darling Buds – the wooden stage, a distortion pedal with a dodgy connection and using Harley’s great Fender amp; Ashton Court festival – second amp channel set way too loud and waking a few sleeping hippies when I stepped on the pedal – lovely! Travelling alone midweek after work (possibly to Salisbury?) and arriving with a minute or two to spare before we were due on stage – the soundcheck had been done earlier. I walked straight into the venue, met up with the others, went straight to the stage, plugged in and we played our set. How professional! Playing with the Valentines in Bristol and hardly being able to hear the kids speak to me at work the next day is another memory.

++ Glenn says that you were essentially a Shop Assistants tribute band. Would you agree with that?

Rocker: I think that’s Glenn being self-deprecating! When I first saw The Rosehips you could certainly see similarities, but the Rosehips sound was already distinctive.

++ How many times did you see the Shoppies live?

Glenn: I only saw the Shop Assistants once as I recall – in Stoke. Could be wrong.

Yoland: Once, but they were great!

Rocker: I saw the Shoppies around 20 times – their early gigs as a five piece were just sublime – perfect mix of noise and melody.

Pete: 7 or 8 times. Wherever I could get to, really – Manchester International, Birmingham Burberries (some photos on the inner sleeve of the Shoppies album are from that gig), Wolverhampton with The Legend, Stoke Shelleys….I sent them a small gift at one time, chatted with them backstage  and exchanged a couple of letters with Alex. Oh – the fan-worship!;)

++ Funny enough years later there was a Rosehips tribute band! Now they are the great Parallelograms! How did you feel about having a band playing your tunes?

Glenn: The Fucking Rosehips struck me as a very funny joke, especially the name. It was good to see them when they played in Stoke and I was quite proud. They were a fucking sight better than the Rosehips.

Yoland: Thought it was a wind-up, then humbled, embarrassed, shocked and to be entirely honest, I never understood why they didn’t do any of the best (i.e. later) stuff. Lovely bunch of folk.

Rocker: I love The Parallelograms – shame Markie has run away to the other side of the world – Pete and I actually guested live a couple of times with “The Fucking Rosehips” as their tribute band was known – and Yo joined us once for a couple of verses of “Designer Greed” – and I do think that’s the closest thing to a reunion you’ll ever see!

Pete: The Parallelograms are great! As the covers band, they played our songs with a similar spirit to us and many bands of that era, that’s what struck me. Markie told me the story of their how they named themselves: Chris Mabbs and Markie were talking about lost indie bands from the late 80s and apparently Chris said something along the lines of “the fucking Rosehips were amazing”, so that was the name they adopted for the covers band. Like Yo, I feel humble, proud and a little embarrassed.

++ “A slow painful death to vivisectionists everywhere” was recorded for the Animal Liberation Front, as far as I know. But was this for a special release? Or just something you thought it was right to do?

Yoland: Yes, it was a benefit.  Or just something you thought it was right to do? –Yes it needed to happen & personally I find it abhorrent that the cause has fallen off the agenda, that the public have been tricked into believing its necessary to torture Beagles, monkeys and mice to advance medical science and that animals face more cruelty and less respect now than then, as the likes of Cook it, Kill it, Eat it & the bush tucker trials demonstrate.  Last week a dog was thrown from a car on the main one-way system in Stoke and don’t even get me started on the Kennel Club & breeding e.g. Rhodesian Ridgebacks born with spina-bifida (hence the ridge) and the healthy ones (no spina-bifida: no ridge) destroyed…

++ Did you ever hear from them?

Yoland: Hear from the ALF? No, they’re probably all in prison for suggesting A Slow Painful Death for Huntington Life Sciences (these views are my own & the ex-Rosehips cannot be held accountable etc etc.)

Rocker: We were asked to contribute a track to a compilation LP – but being the Rosehips it took us a year to record it – and by then either it had already come out, or had been abandoned, or we’d lost contact with whoever it was putting it out, so no, as far as I know we never heard any more from them.

Pete: The vocal version was the one earmarked for release.

Glenn: I never heard from them.

++ The most difficult question of it all, will Stoke City stay in the Premiership?

Glenn: We will know more at 5pm on Saturday. Personally I think they’ve made it too difficult for themselves by fucking up away from home.

Yoland: But potentially the easiest answer! Not looking good (sorry Glenn, any detectable smugness from Charlotte?)

Pete: Charlotte is Glenn’s girlfriend and she supports Port Vale, Stoke City’s local rivals!

Rocker: totally uninterested in sport – I occasionally partake of a little chairobics, though.

Pete: It’s not looking good!

++ Still no Rosehips babies?

Glenn: Both Marks have one or two I think

Rocker: Only The Parallelograms – we think of them as our babies

Yoland: – Some people have let the side down on that front… I have two babies, both with dubious parentage, absent fathers (but a devoted mummy), waggy tails and a total of seven paws between them (again, because some human bastard saw fit to keep 30+ dogs all inter-breeding and fighting and didn’t even get vetenary attention when my little one got her paw bitten off – he just dumped her, pregnant – nice) A theme seems to have emerged.  Doggies are asking for dinner, the fire needs more coal, but the snow has stopped.  Take care, Yo x

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Listen
The Rosehips – I Shouldn’t Have To Say

Thanks so much to Pete Geoghegan for the interview!

++ You’ve made it to Wikipedia, meaning you are an important band in popular music. See, smaller bands’ pages get deleted. Are you surprised by it? How do you feel about it? What is that that Mighty Mighty left to POP!?

Important is not a word any of us would use. The internet is still a bit of a mystery to us all. We’re 20th Century boys. What is great is that people have access to our music. As for our legacy? Mick is such a great songwriter. If it wasn’t for him, I’m not sure the rest of us would have attempted to write. So on a very personal level I’m glad of that.

++ You said you started the band over a shared love of soul music, Postcard Records, The Velvet Underground and Socialist Worker Party politic. What was your favourite Postcard release? What do you think was Postcard’s legacy?

Mick and Hugh were the postcard fans. My favourite is Blue Boy by Orange Juice – raw power and emotion. Again – legacy? A label responsible for Orange Juice, Joseph K, Aztec Camera, The Go-Betweens….it speaks for itself.

++ How involved were you all with the Socialist Worker Party? How important was for the British to be involved in these parties during the Thatcher years?

There were no jobs, the miners were on stike, Nelson Mandella was still in jail, nuclear attack still iminent…the divide between left and right, rich and poor was a lot clearer in those days I think. It was dificult not to be politically active. There was a benefit gig to play every week! People seem more apathetic these days but that’s a generalisation. I wasn’t old enough to vote when I joined the band! It was a long time ago.

++ Who were Mighty Mighty? When and where did you got together? Why the name?

Mick (my brother) and Hugh met in the early 80’s and palyed in a band called Domestos. They formed Mighty Mighty (Curtis Mayfield song), Russell joined on bass, H on drums and I was last to join. I said to Mick one day, “If I buy a keyboard, can I join the band?”. He said, “Yes”. Simple as that.

++ How much luck was there to appear on the NME C86 tape? How did you end up there and how did it help the band after? What is the song “Law” about?

Luck? Yeah. It’s all based on luck. Ask any band. There are plenty of talented acts out there who we’ll never get to hear. It helped tremendously. We got a lot of exposure for a band with no manager or agent even, at that time. Law? I think it’s about a dangerous girl. You’ll have to ask Mick but he’ll probably insist on having a lawyer present!

++ Your first release was “Everybody Loves the Monkey”… what do you mean by “the monkey”? I was wondering about the Girlie label, who ran it? and why the catalog was organized by the word GAY?

Again, you’d have to ask my brother. The only monkeys I’ve ever seen live in zoos. We ran the label ourselves. It was very primitive and great fun. Russell and I got through quite a few Pritsticks putting the artwork together. Gaye is H’s partner. We used their house as head office. It was just a little “thankyou” to her.

++ How involved were you in the Birmingham scene? I’ve noticed you were really close to The Sea Urchins, with members of them appearing in your record sleeves. Which other bands were good friends with you? Was it a friendly scene? Or did you have any problems with any bands?

Don’t think we were ever really aware of a scene. There were bands we shared the bill with who we admired. Pigbros were great. Bridget, Robert and James (Sea Urchins) were friends. I played with them very briefly in my mum’s front room. My sister has a family with James’s baby brother so there’s still a close connection. I’m off to London to see Bridget at the weekend.

++ You did gig a lot! What were your favourite gigs, those that you still remember vividly?

Aberdeen. Everybody’s fave. The power/lights failed but we played on. It was just great fun. Fantastic crowd.

++ You were also part of the first flexi released by the legendary Sha La La! How did Throwaway ended on Matt Haynes label? Were you followers of his labels? Would you have liked to be in Sarah?

Pete: I haven’t a clue how we got on the flexi. I guess he asked us. I think we may have been more at home on Sarah but then if Chapter 22 hadn’t come along, we probably wouldn’t be talking to each other today.

++ How did you end up on Peel’s show?! Was that the biggest highlight of Mighty Mighty?

He played Monkey. That was the highlight as far as I was concerned. I remember Russell and I jumping up and down. Recording the sessions was fantastic. He insisted on introducing us on stage once. We still miss him. He can’t be replaced.

++When and how did you signed to Chapter 22 Records? Who were they?

Erm…1986? Craig Jennings…don’t think I spoke a word to him. I was very young and shy. I use that as an excuse quite a bit.

++ Early this decade you end up releasing all your back catalog on Vinyl Japan. Was there always interest from Japan? How rare are these CDs now? I’m still looking for copies of the BBC CD and “A Band from Birmingham”! How did you end up releasing in Vinyl Japan, an historic indie pop label!?

We had no idea we’d been picked up by them but were thrilled to be available on CD now as well as vinyl. Craig was behind it. Think it helped to claw back some of the studio costs for him. I don’t think we had much of a fanbase in Japan in the 80’s. It really was great to find out that people were still interested and listening. We’re trying to track down any remaining stock. We’ll let you know if we find anything!

++ Were any of you in other bands before, during or after Mighty Mighty?

We had a few funny side projects – Russell Burton’s 15 Minutes, The Velvet Underwear (feat. Bridget Sea Urchin), The Kitchen Cinq (feat. Derek Hammond of Yeah Yeah Noh – our friends and fave band – how could I forget them!). Hugh left and formed The Belfast Cowboys, releasing a mini-album on Swordfish. The rest of us played as The Raree Show, quite a different sound, all guitar and three lead singers! Pre-MM? The usual garage and college band sort of outfits. Nothing of note although Domestos were really quite good.

++ How important was the fanzine culture of the eighties? How involved were you?

The fanzines were crucial. Before the major weeklies picked up on you it was the enthusiasm of the fanzine editors that started to spread the word. No internet remember. Again, it was all part of the homemade/handmade aspect of music. It goes on now but the tools available are so sophisticated these days, it’s barely comparable.

++ What is that that you miss from the pop scene back then? How different do you think it’s from today? Do you still listen to indiepop?

It was a much smaller world and by that I mean there were fewer of us. It seems saturated these days and there are good and bad points to that. People were not really interested in forming or listening to guitar bands so you really did feel outside of the mainstream. It wasn’t conscious, it was just what we loved. We were extremely naive, as were most of the bands back then. Kids are a lot more savy these days and perhaps they need to be. I still listen to music. I still make music. Indiepop? Sure. If I like it, I like it.

++ Why did the band decided to split up? Will there be a reunion gig?

Hugh wanted to leave. We let him go. With hindsight, I think it was a mistake. We should have soldiered on. We had no deal, but we started without a deal. It’s quite easy to loose sight of why you do what you do. Hindsight though. Easy for me to say it now but I was very young and shy at the time….A reunion? We hope to play Indietracks this Summer. We’re scattered here, there and everywhere so it will take some organising. We’ll see.

++ Thanks so much! Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks for talking to us. Looking forward to getting The Leaking Machine out on Cloudberry. Maybe we can find some lost MM tracks for you!!

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Listen
Mighty Mighty – Gemini Smiles

Thanks a thousand to Tommy Cherry for the interview!

++ How did The Bachelor Pad start? What were the members doing at that time?

I was a huge fan of Martin Cotter’s guitar. He was in the Wee Cherubs at the time. Then about 1985 a lot of things happened at once. The Cherubs broke up, I first heard The Jesus & Mary Chain and I went to a new club in Glasgow run by Bobby G called Splash One Happening…I instantly left the band I was in (The Oysters) and recorded some demos with Martin and also Graham. The songs were Jack and Julian, Girl of Your Dreams and Norwegian Wood. Splash One was amazing…the first time I walked through their doors I heard Treason by The Teardrop Explodes. I felt I had come home at last…every record they played was fantastic. It was a scene. Within a year every major town in the UK had a copy of Splash. Then came the fanzines…it was like punk but with groovy Warhol kids instead of all those lumpy Clash fans and Sid idiots. I have a lot of fond memories of that period. We sent the demo to various fanzines and got a good response. Offers to play live meant we had to expand the line up. Fortunately, I was sharing a house with a keyboard wizard David Harris (who is a genius!) and Willie Bain from my old band The Oysters stepped in to play bass. Our first gig, thanks to Jim Honey of Simply Thrilled was with Baby Lemonade and Jessie Garon and The Desperadoes. It was a gas. We signed up for a record deal with Mike Stout the same day Andy Warhol died so he called the label WarholaSound.

++ Who or what were the band’s main influences? Was it a dream at all to have your own bachelor pad?

Oh gosh! I think David Harris got it right when he said it was a head-on collision between The Buzzcocks and Syd Barrett. But we used to just chuck everything in there. Martin and Graham were big Smiths fans, I worshiped at the alter of psychedelia and David was just plain encyclopedic! The house we shared in Queen Square, Strathbungo was the closest I’ve been to a pig in shit…happy, that is!

++ What was the songwriting process like? I ask as most songs were credited Cherry-Cotter. Was it an easy task?

We did co-write a couple of songs, but mostly that was a Beatlesque conceit. Competition was much more rewarding than co-operation…a lesson I was to learn at a cost in real life too.

++ Was the band too self indulgent or was that one of their strengths?

Everything we did was to please ourselves. The Self was all.

++ The production on “Tales of Hoffman” was pretty extreme on some songs, was that deliberate and would you do it the same way again?

Our second single Do It For Fun was the most fucked up production ever, so after that the album sounded as smooth as a baby’s bum to me. But then, I was incredibly stoned at the time. I wouldn’t do any of it the same way again…once was enough!

++ The Coroners Wife seems very different from the other songs, how did it come about? Any chance the video for this song will appear on Youtube?

As far as I can remember The Coroners Wife was the first track recorded for the album sessions and it was mostly just Martin and me. We used a drum machine and later David did some overdubs. It was also a brand new made-up-as-we-went-along-in the studio type song, whereas most of them had been played before by the band in a live situation. I loved The Coroner’s Wife and petitioned to have it released as a single. Don’t know what happened there. I had no idea that anyone was interested in this stuff anymore, I’d see if I can dig it out and will post it.

++ You also recorded another video, for Country Pancake! When and where was this recorded? What do you remember of the recording session for this one? Was it true that it was included in an NME tape?

Country Pancake was recorded in 1989 and was meant to be our third single for Mike Stout’s WarholaSound. This never happened due to the collapse of the independent Cartel distribution (Red Rhino etc). But that is why a video was shot and that’s why we gave it to the NME for inclusion in their CND benefit video which also included Sonic Youth and I think Primal Scream. It was the first proper promo film we had ever done and it was filmed at the same studio where we did all our recording, Toad Hall Studios in Glasgow by Ali and Beanie. Beanie (Ian Carmichael) went on to form the classy indie-dance unit One Dove and is one great engineer and producer. We shared a great love of Sparks, T-Rex and David Bowie with him and he was always great fun to work with. It was a snowy day in January and we pretty much just made it up as we went along. When we had finished we noticed a box of dressing up clothes in the corner and spontaneously tried everything on. Ali kept filming it and speeded it up in the edit and that’s how it ended with the notorious “frocking-up” sequence. The ”Zaba daba daba” chant at the end was a reference to The Sensational Alex Harvey Band’s The Man In The Jar. S.A.H.B. were the first and greatest band I ever saw live…still!

++ Was it planned that the debut single had one song with a chorus going “Hey Hey Hey” (Jack & Julian) and another with a chorus going “Yeah Yeah Yeah” (Albums of Jack)?

Yeah. I think they are both powerful and holy rock and roll mantras. Yeah Yeah Yeah is also one of my favorite Alice Cooper songs from the mighty Killer album and The Yeah Yeah Yeahs are also one of my favorite bands. Karen O is the female Ziggy.

++ How important was Jim Kavanagh for the band?

Jim was the first person to ever show us any interest. Although he only really dug one aspect of the band…the pop. He didn’t really get our rock side. But that was ok. I don’t think we should have signed up for his Egg Records though, and it did all end in tears. I was at my wits end by then and was a bit heavy on him at the time which I truly regret, so if you’re out there reading this Jim I’d like to offer my sincere appy-polly-logies. I should have broke up the band when Martin left and we limped on past our sell-by date for a while. It all made me…um, less than happy, shall we say? But I am glad his thing has had a new life on-line. He deserves it for all his sheer enthusiasm.

++ “Tales of Hoffman” was released on a pretty well known label, Imaginary Records, home of bigger bands such as The Chameleons or Cud. How did you end up in this label and how different was the relationship between you and them compared to the one with Egg Records?

Imaginary Records was a weird thing. We’d had a really close relationship with Mike Stout for a couple of years. Then he arranged for Imaginary to put out the album and we duly toured with Cud (who were awful! Nice guys but music-wise, just awful!) and we never saw or heard from Mike again! He just vanished off the face of the earth. I heard a rumour that he was seen working as a croupier in a Singapore casino! I don’t think there was any truth in it but that’s how odd it was. Wherever you are Mike, all the best. You were a diamond geezer. Imaginary were just that…imaginary! They didn’t seem to exist. They never made any contact with us at all. We used to joke about using a ouija board to get in touch. The lack of support caused us to drift which led to Martin leaving and the whole endgame of The Pad. It was all very odd but somehow all very typical too.

++ You had “Girl of Your Dreams” on a Sha La La flexi which are quite legendary especially as this label will later become Sarah Records. Were you a follower of these labels? What do you think of these C86 sounds being mythified?

That flexi made it as Single Of The Week in Sounds (a popular UK music weekly) so that was really funny. It also got us a lot of gigs up and down the country. I loved Matt Haynes fanzine Are You Scared To Get Happy. He was a real passionate ranter and not at all twee. He was also really funny. My one big regret is not getting to know him better. I think The Bachelor Pad should really have been on Sarah. It was our natural and spiritual home. I also loved Bob Stanley’s Caff fanzine. It was filthy and hilarious. Real punk rock Joe Orton sort of vibe. These were my sort of people. Good home folks.

++ Maybe you can help me on this one, do you remember anything from the Milky Way flexi? I can’t find any information about it aside that you had Sunshower Sun included on this one!

I have no memory of that whole episode at all…I have a feeling that Jim and Martin might be the ones to ask.

++ I always wondered about many of your songs as they include people’s names like “Meet the Lovely Jenny Brown”, “The Albums of Jack”, “Jack and Julian”, “Jack McLean in disguise” and “Abu Nidal’s Bus”. Are these songs based in real people too? Are these true stories? Is it always about the same Jack?

There was a bit of a trend for name-songs then. I think it probably came from the whole Lou Reed/Velvet Underground thing, y’know…Sweet Jane, Caroline Says and all that. We all wanted to be in the Velvets in those days. All the clubs aspired to be like the pary scene from Midnight Cowboy too! Lemme see, Jenny Brown, she was real. She had a show on Scottish Television at the time called Scottish Books which I used
to watch after rehearsals. I think I developed a crush on her. Jack McLean was a drink sodden, misogynist journalist with The Glasgow Herald that Martin had a strange love/hate relationship with. Jack and Julian was more archetypal. I had been reading about the origins of old English nursery rhymes like Jack and Jill and Jack just keeps cropping up all over the place. Jack is everyman…Jack o’ Lantern, Spring-heel Jack, Jack in The Box. Remember that bit in Performance when Harry Flowers says “I know you. You’re Jack The Lad”! The Albums of Jack was a Martin title and the line doesn’t actually appear in the song. It actually went by the working title “My Love of Giraffe”! which was the name of a cheap toy rip-off of My Little Pony! The night before we recorded it Martin and I were watching the worst movie ever made, You Can’t Stop The Music starring The Village People and one of the characters said “wait till you hear the albums of Jack” and Martin said that we should call the song that. That is actually my favorit Pad song. It still makes all the hairs on my plotty stand endwise.

++ What do you consider was the highlight of The Bachelor Pad?

For me, it has to be the gig we did in Lincon with The Telescopes. That and Grant Morrison writing us into the plot of a John Constantine Hellblazer comic book. A tape of our second single Do It For Fun is so noisy that we jam the nuclear bomb and save the world. What a gas to be in a DC comic. Thanks Grant. We used to do some gigs with Grant’s band in the early days and on Grant’s first television interview I dressed up as a nurse and administered him pills throughout…it was duly banned!

++ Will we ever see all the Bachelor Pad’s tracks on a retrospective CD?

I dunno…do you want to put it out?

++ Why did the band call it a day? Did any of you get involved with any other bands after?

We should have called it a day the day Martin left as the whole thing was based on our dualist energy…we were Jack and Julian I suppose. Be careful what songs you write, they may come true! In 2000 I recorded an albums worth of songs with Stewart Christmas under the name The Whores (of Perception) and we played a couple of gigs at the 13th Note in Glasgow. But that is a whole other story, in fact I could write a book about it! Julian Cope was heavily involved. We imploded as fast as we created, yet despite this it was probably the best band I was ever in and the music was superior to anything else I ever did. If you are interested I will send you some MP3s. I think we may have been truly before our time!

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Listen
The Bachelor Pad – Jack and Julian

Thanks so much Roger Källs for the interview!

++ Hi Roger! Tell me how did some Norrköping kids got together and made amazing guitar pop? What was that reason that made you make such music?

In that time most kids either played heavy metal or progressive rock(post punk with swedish lyrics)but I was really into the 60’s stuff and powerpop such as the Jam, Blondie and Paul Collins Beat. It was quite a hard time to convince my friends to go that way.

++ How did you know all the band members? Were you high school friends or maybe neighbors? Why, during the whole Saturday Kids lifespan, was there so many lineup changes?

The first setup were the only ones that really dared to play good f*****ng popsongs with a simplicity and stand for it.Those were the people that also a few years later started indiepop fanzines and brought us live acts from England such as the Wedding Present. The music scene in Norrköping turned in to be a kind of a collective (music and arts) and we all knew each other well. Some people played in one band 1 or 2 years and then they’d went on to another band. It wasn’t such a big deal. I wanted to go on with my ideas and some wanted to go Madchester And probably I was a real angry and stubborn young man as well.

++ Where does the name Saturday Kids come from?

The Jam. Saturday’s kids. The song was about working class kids who only lived for the weekends. It was about us.

++ It was 1987, were the sounds from England’s C86/indiepop popular in Sweden? What was the way for Swedish kids to know new music? Did you have some kind of John Peel there? Maybe you had great record stores?

We had a fanzine called Sound Affects, a local radio channel with the same name, a record store, Pet Sounds, a record label, Ceilidh and lots of kids that arranged concerts. Our John Peels were Terry Ericsson and John L Byström from Sound Affects (RIP) and OIa Hermansson (the founder of Ceilidh who discovered Cardigans)

++ What other bands from the late eigthies in Sweden would you recommend?

Wannadies, Popsicle, This Perfect Day

++ Your first release was “Four Beautiful Songs in D’d”(1990) on the SND label. Which songs were included in this 7″? Who were the SND label? I haven’t found much info from them!

Our first release was actually on a Ceilidh compilation but after that it was “Four beautiful ..” Happiness, Me and my brother, Affected Faces and Down. The SND label was the other record label in Norrköping by the time. A bit more into the progressive rock scene. Less indiepop. SND stands for “skit ner dig”…..shit in your pants…..as I said..more rock

++ After that you end up releasing the 5″ “Things Do Happen” on Ceilidh. How did you end up signing to local label Ceilidh? Were they friends?

Yes and fans. Ola Hermansson always preferred us as the best live act at that time.

++ What about the Pet Sounds tapes? These are quite rare items, sought after by collectors. Do you remember how did you have some songs on those compilations? What other Swedish fanzines were there at the time? Was there a big fanzine culture in Sweden?

The Pet sounds tapes are so rare that I’ve almost never heard of them. True! There were fanzines but I seldom read them. Just Sound Affects really. Can’t remember the names.

++ How difficult was to gig or release records for a pop band back then? I have this idea, which could be wrong, that those days Sweden was infested by metal bands and it was hard to get your stuff out to wider audiences.

It was hard but it created a “do it yourself” attitude. No band from Norrköping were big in a wider meaning.

++ How many bands have you been involved with? I know that now you dedicate your time to Northern UpBeat and Absolute Beginners. Any others?

The Way (my first), The Gwen Stacys (directly after the split from Saturday Kids).

++ How do you feel about the incredible explosion of Swedish pop bands during this decade? It’s impressive, really! How would you try to explain this phenomenon?

A mixture of municipalities that were willing to help us with cheap rehearsal rooms and studios (we could get some fundings through the studies circle organizations). A Swedish phenomenon and our interest in all Anglo-Saxon culture??? Cold weather??

++ Having recorded for different formats, what do you prefer, vinyl or CD? and why?

CD……. I’m lazy and it seems to have a longer life.

++ It was just the time of the first big Swedish indiepop wave with bands such as Cloudberry Jam, Club 8 or even The Cardigans when Saturday Kids split. Why was that?

I was a bit bored. We all had developed different taste in music. I wanted to create a more narrow concept. A pure mod band (the Gwen Stacys). So I did!

++ I want to visit Sweden badly, but never really thought about going to your town, if I was visiting Norrköping and I could only visit one place, where should I go?

My place!

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Keep on keeping on

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Friday night, I’m working the late shift. The newspaper’s in-house activity is usually very quiet during weekends. All graphics have been done beforehand and unless there’s an emergency, a last minute catastrophe, some serious shooting or god descending among the mortals, on Saturday and Sunday you’ll get old news. When I was in school, I used to play soothsayer with some girls telling them what would show on the front cover on the weekend. That always impressed. The future was always built over the past and the past was the future. And the present? Well, 1, 2, 3, it’s already the past.

The past is always haunting me. I have a little obsession with it. When I was a kid I always thought I was going to be an archaeologist. My house was built over an ancient cemetery and a block away there was a huge mud city (Huaca Pucllana) many centuries old. My dad told me that when he was a teenager that place wasn’t closed for tourism. It was open, and he would go biking there and often find some ancient remains, vases, combs, textiles and even mummies! That was inspiring for me, that under my feet I could always find lost treasures. And that’s how I feel about The Holsteins today.

Right in front of my nose lies a treasure chest containing two songs of this Belfast band. That’s what the “25 Silver Jubilee” compilation on Germany’s Meller Welle Produkte is. “A Year and a Day” and “Count the Stars” are on repeat right now. I have my huge headphones on and, while they warm my ears a bit on this cold day, I’m enjoying these lovely tracks. Why have they been forgotten? I don’t get it. They had proper releases plus many compilation appearances. They were played by Peel but not even a mention on Twee.net. The past has had no mercy and buried them six feet under. Time for some digging. Prepare the shovels.

After some time researching, the only source of information I could find was this complete website with a large bio and a short interview, which I’ve read eagerly. Here are some important bits and pieces:

* The first album “Angel Train”, was released in 1994 by the German label Bullet! Records. It is a vinyl only 10 song album that seems got many favorable reviews. The track Drugstorm was played on Peel that same year. The record sold out.

* As the album was such a success, the label offered a second release, this time on CD. In 1995 the band releases “Pop-Gun Riot”, a 5 track EP. And again the reviews were positive.

*By 1997 The Holsteins were Niamh Rooney on vocals, Davy Burton on lead guitar, Pete Major on rhythm guitar, Brian McNamara on drums and Chris Birt on bass. Under this lineup they released their last record, the 8 track album “Sub Rosa”, on Shiny Records, which seems their most popular release as it’s the only one listed in RateYourMusic.

*Thanks to this album they caught the German popkids’ attention again and were asked to contribute, these two songs I keep listening, to the Meller Welle compilation. And on top of that, they did a split 7″ with die Blumen des Bosen on the Kactus label.

But what happened after that? Can it be that after many releases they fall into oblivion? And what about the questions I have? like, why did they name themselves after the black and white patterned cows, the world’s highest production dairy animal? Do they find it funny that there is a Holstein region in Germany, the country where they were most popular? Would I ever come around those two early demo cassettes they recorded? Would some crazy person take advantage and offer me their albums for 50 dollars each? All I really know is that I want to listen more from Niamh’s swooning voice. But if you know where the past has left our Northern Irish pop comrades please inform about it! Don’t be silent! You don’t want to be the undertaker’s accomplice, do you?

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Listen
Holsteins – A Year and A Day

Thanks to Rich Lindsay for the interview!

++ You were quite young when The Ammonites started, right? how old were you? where you all friends from school?

Yes, we were all school friends. We must have been 14 years old. The idea of forming a band originated from being bored in History lessons.

++ How come being so young you made jangly pop? how did you get influenced by this music? I ask because it’s not that common, most kids in their teens know mostly what’s on the charts, they don’t dwelve on the music that’s been cooked in the underground!

I think the jangly pop thing really started when we discovered Sarah Records, the Sea Urchins etc. and later The Byrds. It was initially bands like The Smiths and The Housemartins – who had broken out of the underground scene and had some chart success – that made us aware of an independent/alternative music scene. But, the real twee indie pop stuff was heavily influenced by the Sarah stuff.

++ You released many, many, tapes with Rutland Records, as well as your 7″. How did they came to know your music? Did you feel part of a scene in Leicester?

Rutland got to know us because we sent them a demo tape we’d recorded on 4-track which featured the first recording of “Day in the Sun”. They liked it and kindly offered us a chance to share their practice room and release a few things on their label. Looking back there was definitely a sense of a Leicester music scene. I guess a lot of that is thanks to the existence of pub venues such as The Princess Charlotte, O’Jays and the Magazine where young, unknown bands had a chance to play regularly in front of an audience. The guy that was running the Charlotte gave us some really good support slots at the time. Supporting Cud was one particular highlight.

++ You totally considered yourselves popkids, right? If not you wouldn’t have written Teenage Pop-Kid Dreaming. But what does being a popkid during the late eighties / early nineties meant? How could you tell someone was a popkid?

At the time we recorded the record we were desperately trying to be a bit punk and garage. By then I was basically writing most of my stuff by ripping off tunes from Pebbles records or late 70s British punk. I don’t think anyone can deny there’s a large portion of Pete Shelley in the vocal on “Teenage Pop Kid Dreamin” and “Coming Down” is based on pretty standard 60s pop-garage riffs. So the pop kid reference was slightly ironic, mocking our pop kid image and the twee pop kid scene. Maybe we were trying to distance ourselves from the indie pop thing but at the same time we were pretty much confirming we’d never ever be anything else but pop kids. Even now, 18 years later, I’m still a teenage pop kid. Still dreaming too!

++ Do you remember how many tapes you put out on Rutland? Was there any particular difference between the recording of these than the 7″?

I looked at the list of tapes we had done the other day and I can’t remember for the life of me what was on all of them. As far as I recall, all the tapes were 4-track recording which we did ourselves. The single was recorded on 8-track by Alan Jenkins of The Deep Freeze Mice and Ruth’s Refrigerator.

++ What was the biggest highlight of The Ammonites?

There were a lot. Some of the support slots, as mentioned. Playing the big municipal music festival in Leicester and gigging in London … and people actually turning up to watch!

++ Were The Ammonites a gigging band? Which particular gigs do you remember the most?

I refer the Right Honourable Gentleman to the answer I gave above!

++ How involved were you with the fanzine culture at the time? Did you ever wrote one?

We never wrote one, no. I remember being amazed how many fanzines took an interest in us. Doing interviews with Spanish fanzines and having flexi disks released in Japan … It was all a bit mental really.

++ I know you were part of many tape compilations, but there are some I don’t have a clue about them, maybe you can give me a hand with any details you might remember? I’m wondering about “And they Call it Pop” on Fragrant Records and “Just Another… Compilation” on Flippin Ace Records

And then there’s stuff like that which we never knew anything about. Or maybe I just can’t remember. I have no idea about either I’m afraid.

++ About the 7″, I’ve always wondered about the cover, it has some sort of Bridget Riley imagery on it, who designed it?

The cover was just a load of black and white pop art which was meant to look terribly 60s to go along with the garage/psych image we were desperate to cultivate. It featured a copy of a portrait which John (the original drummer)  painted of his brother Steve (who had played guitar in the band before leaving to go to university). Incidentally, their other two brothers now play in Ambrose Tompkins with Robyn.

++ How did the the split Flexi on the Boshi label happened? Did you ever meet Akiko?

That was another one of those things that just seemed to happen and completely amazed us. I don’t think we did ever meet Akiko.

++ Was The Ammonites the first band for all of you? Were any of you involved with pop bands during or after The Ammonites existence?

The Ammonites was the first or second band for us all. Robyn has always been involved in various bands, basically because he’s a brilliant musician. He’d switched from guitar to drums for the Ammonites and wanted to keep playing guitar so he was playing with the Calender Dream at the same time, for instance.

I know John got very close to a proper break-through playing drums with ex members of Blab Happy. On John Peel and all that. But in the end I think the album just didn’t sell.

The Ammonites was always “my baby” so I only ever had the one band. I had a long break from active involvement in bands until a few years ago, I got a band started over here in Germany. We called ourselves the zero five, had a lot of fun with it. But for some reason I went back into retirement a year ago.

I’ve already mentioned Ambrose Tompkins. Check them out if you don’t know them. They’re very cool.

++ Why did you choose the name The Ammonites?

To quote one particular fanzine: “because they are as boring as old sea fossils”. I guess that’s the kind of mini backlash you face when your guitarist has an affair with the girl running the fanzine, only for her to get back with her ex boyfriend (the guy running it with her). Ha ha ha

++ Have you ever thought about putting all your songs together on a retrospective CD? I heard there were rumours of Rutland doing this and even a working title “Rain and Ruin”, was this true?

I never heard about that. Robyn put something similar together with all the old demos but that was just a private thing, not for release.

++ Why did the band call it a day? What are you doing now?

Rob had left to go to university. Rob had played bass for use since 1988 and had been the final piece in the jigsaw to becoming a “proper band”. I think when he left, the momentum was gone and the balance was all wrong. We replaced him for a few weeks or months but never gigged again. Shane (guitarist 1989 – 1991) and I were getting listening to totally different music and seeing less and less of Robyn socially. In the end, Robyn said he was calling it a day and it was clear that there could be no Ammonites without him. So that was it.

What are we all doing? Well, this is what I know. I’m not in regular contact with everyone.

Robyn (guitar/vocals 1987 – 1989, drums 1989 – 1991)  – Still living in Leicester, is married and has two (I think) sons. Plays with Ambrose Tompkins. And I should drop him a line!

Rob (bass 1988 – 1991) – Was living in London a long time and is now back in the East Midlands too. Sadly I haven’t spoken to Rob for a long time.

Steve (guitar 1989) – I had a recent update from his brother John and he’s now teaching in Italy apparently.

John (drums 1987 – 1989) – Living in a cave house in southern Spain and judging by the amount of YouTube links he sends me, he’s still a teenage pop kid and doing a lot of dreaming!

Shane (guitar 1989 – 1991) – I think he’s back living in Leicester. The last time I saw him he was playing in a band but finding it hard because they wanted him “to play the guitar properly!”. Don’t know what he’s up to now but I’m pretty sure whatever it is he’s being a total star at it.

Jim (bass 1991 very briefly) – I’m afraid I have no idea. I lost touch with him very quickly after the band split and I went to university. Years later though, having finished at university my then girlfriend and I got invited to dinner one night. I think my ex was studying with the girl who invited us round. Anyway, we turn up and this girl’s boyfriend is none other than Jim. That was pretty amusing.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Just many, many thanks for giving an old fart the chance to pretend he’s a pop star after all this time.

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Listen
The Ammonites -You, Me and the Sun

Thanks to Martin Cotter Cotter for the interview!!

++ Hi Martin! How did the Wee Cherubs come together?

I had been in a band called Radio Ghosts, we had been playing & gigging for years and it was becoming stale, so I left. The RG’s were a kind of Gang of Four, noisy, angular agit-pop type of bunch, highly original and very guitar-y, but with a fair bit of attitude and much misery – most of it coming from me!

So by the time I left I was ready for something quieter and more subtle, where you could hear actual music, the guitar tones and so on, and where not every second was filled with spiky noise. I also wanted to write melodic but probably less commercial songs; songs that I had in my head but knew were wrong for the RG’s. They weren’t even all songs – just fragments; but I wanted to let them out and experiment with them.

Christine was my true love at that time, she was playing guitar in a band called Rapid Dance. I can’t remember if she quit or if they split, but she started learning to play bass in the new post-RG band. We really were just doing it for fun. I was writing material that would never have been performed by the RG’s, and so far as I knew at that time, would never actually go further than just personal enjoyment.

Then we started realising that a few of the songs had – something. We were very friendly with other Glasgow indie bands, notably Apes in Control. Their drummer Graham was one of me & Christine’s closest friends, so he was absolutely perfect for us and was happy to split his time between the Apes and ourselves.

So we started rehearsing as a 3-piece, and soon started thinking about playing and recording, as the songs began to develop & mature. The music we were making at that time, I can’t stress this enough, was being created entirely in isolation, independent of our contemporaries, and any other “twee” influences.

If you’d known us at that time, you’d know that this was just the way we were. It was never deliberately anything – it was what actually came out. I always felt that bands such as the Pastels, who we never listened to at all, had a deliberate strategy and actively tried to promote their identity. They acted the way they wanted to be perceived; we however were way too stoned, and simple-minded, to even consider that. Certainly I was!

++ Dreaming is indeed one of the greatest pop tunes ever recorded. What was your inspiration to write this tune?

Ocht away you go. No specific event that I can recall. Tunes come from nowhere, and if you’re lucky, the words come easily and at the same time. Something you have to force out won’t sound as natural. Dreaming was just a nice chord sequence for the chorus, and the lyrics cover an imagined situation where a fellow has been so enraptured by his true love that he doesn’t realise she’s moving away from him all the time (“I lived for a while in a film, in a dream….”), until when he finally snaps out of it, by which time it’s too late (“when I woke up at last….”) – she’s nicked off with someone else. He’s then reminiscing and feeling generally sorry for himself (“a photograph of two happy kids…”) and starting to be get pathetic (“I could change but…”). I think at that time in my life, losing love and fear of losing love had more impact on me that being in love.

A song that had a peculiar inspiration was “Painless” (from the Rainforest demo). I had a dream I was watching the Smiths on TV, and when I woke up, I could still remember the tune! so while I still had it in my mind, I grabbed my guitar and worked out the chords, and used the same vocal line that Morrissey had been singing – about being Painless. It turned out to be one of our best songs. I even sent a recording of it to the great man himself, explaining how the song came into being; that we had “stolen” a song I dreamed they had played….and he wrote back on a nice postcard saying “I like it, now what?” And I have to admit, that stumped me.

++ You recorded the Dreaming single on 1983 but it didn’t get released till 1984. Why was that?

I honestly can’t remember. Probably too dissolute to get things organised any quicker. There was a hell of a lot of blow around then.

++ How many copies of the record were pressed? I have read that only 400. Are you aware of how collectible this single has become? for many it is the holy grail of indiepop!

Well, we pressed 1000. I do hear that it’s quite collectable and this makes me quite sad and bereft…

The Cherubs were never ‘big’, even locally. So a few years after Christine had left and the band split up, I still had boxes of the single left. It never sold much then, because we were much too disorganised and unprofessional to have done anything like arranging any distribution for it – we just recorded it because that seemed like a good idea at the time.

So one day, maybe 5 years after the Cherubs split, I was moving house; and rather than keep lugging around the 10 or so boxes that I still had (each with 25 copies of the Dreaming single), and have to find space for them in my new flat, I took them out and dumped them in a skip.

No wonder I’m sad.

++ What about the Bog A Ten label? Who were they? This was their second release right?

This was Apes in Control’s label. They released a single called Funtimes/Joined in the Dance, Dreaming was the second single.

As I said we were very friendly with them and we had captured their drummer, so they kindly invited us to release Dreaming on their label. They were / are very good folks, extremely creative and kind – but not business people really. Or at all, come to that.

Bogaten – if I recall the name came from a Bob Hope/Bing Crobsy road movie, and was also a monster in a later trashy sci-fi film.

Why they thought it was a good name for a record label, God knows. Remember what I said about the blow.

++ I read you also recorded a demo tape called “Rainforest”, when was this recorded and which songs does it include?

It was recorded before the session where we did Dreaming, I think, and had 4 songs – Poor Little Lost Soul, Pastures New, Waiting, and (seriously), Theme from an Imaginary Channel Four Documentary (an instrumental).

The name from the last one – as well as being a reference to Sergio Leone’s Theme from an Imaginary Western – came about because C4 was just opening and they were actually holding a competition to get some background music for their various logos.

So we put this ‘song’ together (it was really just a spacey improvisation), but as I recall, and quite typically of us, never quite got it together enough to actually ever enter the competition.

++ Why didn’t you release more records? Have you ever thought about compiling all your recordings on one CD?

Money, and the band didn’t stay together long enough. We had great fun though and although I would behave differently if I had the chance to do it all again, I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.

I’ve never thought there would be much interest in what we did, so I’ve never considered doing a compilation. I don’t think the master tapes exist any more anyway!

++ Fashion during those early eighties was quite different from the one we came to know post-c86 tape as I can see on the photo on the 7″! What was the usual indie guitar pop kid outfit back then?

Oh for me tartan / antique shirts were de rigeur, I used to get mine from charity shops or from Flip in Queen Street (Glasgow) which at that time was an absolute goldmine for loads of second hand American/foreign stuff. Tartan shirt, maybe a bootlace tie, old suit trousers – all second hand. I do remember I used to have a great pair of leather boots – they were old 1950’s skating boots and the skates had been taken off. They took 10 minutes to lace up – they were great!

Christine had her own unique gamine style which again was not driven by any of the poserish, deliberate trends at that time; she, above any of the three of us and above anyone else I knew, was the complete embodiment of vulnerable, slightly hopeless but irresistibly lovable chic that eventually became the “twee” badge of preference. But she’d been like that all her life – it wasn’t something she ever ‘became’.

++ Being from Scotland I guess you were influenced by the Postcard Records releases, am I right? Did you go to gigs of any of their bands?

We were as I said pretty independent, to the extent of being slightly isolated. I was listening to a huge range of music and I did of course know about Postcard Records, and it was part of the soundtrack to that time for me; I’d have to acknowledge it would have been an influence, stylistically, that would be unavoidable.

But there was no blatant attempt to sound like Aztec Camera or Orange Juice or whoever, much as we liked them. We’d be subliminally absorbing them and it would have shaped some of the nuances of our sound; but then again, our sound was so varied that I don’t know that you’d categorise it as being Postcard-like.

If you’d been to any gigs, and if you listen to the two demos and Dreaming, you can pick up a major range of styles and influences, from the Blue Orchids to the Zombies. I don’t even think there was such a thing as a Cherubs sound: I have an old video of us playing a gig in Kelvingrove Park in Glasgow, and every single song is musically quite different. The only commonality is that the same three people are making the music.

++ What were the bands that you were listening at the time and influenced the Wee Cherubs?

Everybody!

++ Did the Wee Cherubs gig a lot? Any particular gig that you remember the most?

We gigged a bit, not really a lot. I remember we played a series of Sunday evening gigs at a sort of socialist’s social club for a time, these were great, that was where we developed a lot of the songs, and was where I met Tommy Cherry, who eventually I formed the Bachelor Pad with a while after the Cherubs spilt.

We also played a gig (the one mentioned in Kelvingrove Park) where we shared a bill with the Oysters but we played alternate songs; we’d play a song, then the Oysters would play a song (while we stood around and watched!), then we’d play a song and so forth – that puzzled a few people, naturally.

This wasn’t actually a gig but when we were starting out, we tried to get extra dates in a pub in Glasgow that loads of influential bands used (the Doune Castle). We already had gigs lined up so we used a different name, and I went to see the manager in disguise. Discussions went OK until I told him that the name of the band was “The Whustlin’ Poofs”. He didn’t like that.

One gig we played in Glasgow where the P.A. company we were friendly with brought their entire range of equipment. Normally we’d hire say the £50 offering, which was more than enough for our needs; but they wanted to see what it would sound like if they hooked up every speaker and amp they had. The loudest gig for the quietest band! It sounded great from on stage, and it looked like Pink Floyd’s sound system instead of ours; sadly I’m reliably informed that for the audience it sucked – loud, but bad!

++ Why did the Wee Cherubs call it a day?

Christine moved down to England to answer a long-held belief that she should make shoes for a living. That was the end of our relationship and with it, the end of the band. We did meet up again a couple of years later when she played bass in the Bachelor Pad!

++ Thanks so much Martin, anything else you’d like to add?

Think I’ve bored you enough!

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Listen
Wee Cherubs – Pastures New

Thanks to Jo Bartlett for the interview!

++ Hello! Though Danny wrote some great liner notes for the Some Greater Love CD, I still want to know more about the mighty Bluetrain! The band started when Kevin Moorey replaced Mike Auton on drums and Go!Service changed it’s name to Bluetrain, right? Why didn’t you keep the name? And why did you choose calling it Bluetrain?

We started writing a batch of new songs when Kevin joined the band. His influences were different to Mike’s which mean the music took on a slighty new sound. Kevin was listening to A Certain Ratio, The Pale Fountains etc which we all got into. We were also listening to a lot of jazz / blue note at this time. Blue Train by John Coltrane was a particular favourite, so we re named the band in his honour. It made sense to have a new band name to go with this fresh new music we were making.

++ Something that I find curious and really lovely is that all of you went to the same primary school. Were you friends back then? Would you have expected that all of you were going to make music and more over, together?

Myself and Rudy are both the youngest of six children – all his siblings were in the same classes as all my siblings! His older brother Tom was in the same class as my brother (also called Tom!) Danny and Kevin were also in this class. So the two Toms, Danny and Kevin were friends at school. Rudy was actually in the year below me. We all knew each other and would all be at the same parties etc. It was only a while later we actually started playing music together. I guess I would have been pretty suprised to know we’d still be making music together so many years later! Rudy plays in The Yellow Moon Band with myself and Danny now and our debut album is released next week, so yeah, it’s all quite strange really!

++ You had already released the Go!Service 12″ on Dreamworld before releasing, on the same label, the “Land of Gold” 12″. How did Dan Treacy react to the name change? Was it easy to work with him? Any particular anecdote about such an influencing figure?

Dan was fine about the name change, he understood. We were very young so had no experience of working with anyone before Dan. Looking back he was pretty eccentric. This was before e mails or mobile ‘phones so the only way we would get in touch was really when Dan would ‘phone on my parent’s land line. He would disappear for weeks at a time and then my Mum would call up the stairs ‘ Dan’s on the ‘phone’ and I would run down, really happy to hear from him. It took about a year from recording the Go! Service single before it actually came out. He was great to work with and helped organise us loads of gigs at his Room At The Top club in Camden. We supported bands like The June Brides, That Petrol Emotion, The Mekons (it was a room above a pub and it was so full for that gig that we all nearly crashed through the floor – the landlord kept coming up the stairs looking terrified as the ceiling below was shaking!), 1,000 Violins, The Housemartins and of corse The TV Personalities. We also went on tour round Europe with the TV Ps – that was an incredible experience. Rudy had his 16th birthday on tour!

++ The single nowadays is such a sought after item for collectors. It can go for over 150 GBP! How do you feel about this? Do you know how limited is this single? 1000 copies?

I think it was 1,000 copies. I’m chuffed to bits to think that it has become a collector’s item. We were all so proud when both singles came out. I worked in a record shop when the Bluetrain one came out and I would get a real thrill when someone I didn’t know would come in and buy it. Someone once actually said ‘I’m friends with the band, I know Jo’ when they bought it, that made me giggle as she obvioulsy didn’t know me at all!

++ Just a curious question, why the opening track on the Land of Gold 12″ is ‘Wheels Go Round’ and not ‘Land of Gold’?

A mistake at the pressing plant!

++ You made a lovely video for Land of Gold too. Was this your idea or the label’s? Where was it recorded and how much fun was doing it?

Dan was friends with a film student who made the video as part of his course. We were really lucky. It was great fun making it – that area is the docklands in London and is now full of very exclusive apartments.

++ You ran a club in Surrey called The Buzz Club. You had quite a lot of initiative! What was the best of running this club? I bet you booked all of your favourite bands, right? Who were some of those bands that brought their talent to your town?

Well, we were inspired by Dan and his club in London. Again we were really young and didn’t know what we were doing, but we learned by picking up a phone and as you say, booking all our favourite bands. We ran the club once a month and the list of bands is pretty impressive, again this is something we’re really proud of: The June Brides, That Petrol Emotion, The Mighty Lemon Drops, Primal Scream, The Stone Roses, The Charlatans, The Manic Street Preachers, Suede, Elastica…..that’s just off the top of my head, many more played there.

++ On Parade, one of my favourite songs, there’s a guest appearance by Jon from The June Brides playing his trumpet. How did it happen? Did you find that it was easy to cooperate between bands? Most people I’ve interviewed from the time say that there wasn’t really a scene, that everyone was doing their own thing.

We had played with The June Brides a few times and thought Jon’s trumpet would sound great on that track – he kindly agreed and I think it worked a treat. There was a scene, we were based just outside of London and so were on the fringes of that scene. I think each city had it’s own thing going on, usually with a cool label to go with it. So maybe lots of small scenes? If there had been a festival everyone could have played back in those days, you could have brought all those cities together and it would have been an awesome line up!

++ Rudy leaves the band and Frank arrives from America, right? How did you find him? Do you remember what that Melody Maker advert said?

I remember him ‘phoning up for the first time after he saw the advert, but no, I’m afraid I can’t remeber exactly what the ad said. I asked him what guitar he played and when he said a Rickenbacker – he was pretty much in straight away!

++ With this new lineup you recorded three new tracks “Some Greater Love”, “Decline” and “You Bring Me Back to Life”. Only Some Greater Love was released on two tape compilations: Abigail’s Birthday Party and the Uncle Arthur’s Pop Parlour. Do you remember who made this compilations? I believe they even came with fanzines, right? I only know the tracklists…

Abigail’s Birthday Party was made by Dave Driscoll. He was a Buzz Club regular. I forgot about Uncle Arthur’s Pop Parlour, now you mention it, was it Scottish? I wonder if it was something to do with The Soup Dragons – we were friendly with Sushil from the band and he had a fanzine. Umm, I’m not sure about that one.

++ After that you recorded two more songs, with a new line-up change, “Twenty Years” and “Reason to Be”. Why weren’t these, or the previous three, part of a proper release, a second single? It would have been so great

I don’t know. Frank went back to America and Danny and I knew we wanted to go there too, so I think those last two recordings never got played to anyone really. I can’t remeber why the three with Frank on guitar didn’t come out. We never fell out with Dan / Dreamworld, maybe we just driffted apart or something. That was actually a fairly busy time, when Frank was in the band. We toured Scotland and played with The Pastels and The Mighty Lemon Drops (who had got pretty big by then) and were getting offered gigs in Paris and other European cities.

++ Going back to fanzines, was Bluetrain involved in the fanzine culture of the time?

Danny and myself had a go at doing one. I can’t remember what it was going to be called. We got a far as interviewing Peter Hooton from Liverpool band, The Farm but I don’t think we ever actually finished the first issue. There was alway at least one skinny kid selling fanzines at the gigs we played, especially London. The Legend AKA Everette True used to always be at the gigs at The Room at the Top with a plasitc bag full of fanzines for sale. We were interviewed by a fair few too. I used to love those fanzines.

++Something that is quite interesting is that Bluetrain sounds totally different from most of the bands in UK during those late 80s. You were still a guitar pop band, but your sound was closer to the early 80s, that of Lotus Eaters or Pale Fountains, to the neo-acoustic sound, than that of the jangly C86 sound. What were the bands that you’d say influenced your sound?

We all had slightly different tastes. Danny and I were probably the most classic indie kids in the band – we loved The Loft, The June Brides, Lloyd Cole (me especially when it comes to Lloyd), Orange Juice, all the Postcard stuff, Kevin introduced us to The Pale Fountains and funk music, Rudy was listening to jazz. We all enjoyed the music we played to each other and knew it was great to stretch our horizons.

++ Why did you decide to call it a day?

Danny and I went to America for six months – we hooked up with Frank and played with a friend of his on drums. We played a few gigs as Bluetrain. When Danny and I returned to the UK we moved from our parent’s houses in Surrey to London and got caught up in that whole world. We always had a band on the go though. Jump Rope, J.D. and Bob until finally we recorded as It’s Jo and Danny and had our most success with our self released album ‘Lank Haired Girl To Bearded Boy’

++ Thanks so much. Anything you’d like to add?

Thanks very much Roque, I’ve really enjoyed the memories your questions have inspired.

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Listen
Bluetrain – Some Greater Love

Thanks to David Hassall for the interview.

++ The only article I’ve ever found about The Train Set was on the Foxdude Records page and the information there is still not much. The only bit of information that strikes me is that the band was only around 1988 to 1990 according to it. Why did The Train Set last that little?

The Train Set were formed around 1985-86 as far as I’m aware, maybe earlier. I joined in 1986 when their singer Camel saw me playing at the college we both attended. I was on a music course and he was on a film course.

Basically the band lasted as long as they could release records, and then everyone just drifted off to other things. By then the original bass player had left to teach English in Brazil. I don’t think anyone heard from him ever again.

++ How and where did the band start? Who were the members? When and how you join the band? What was that thing in common amongst you that made the band work?

I think they started when they were at school together. The three main members were Camel, the singer (named after a character on a chocolate bar – his real name was Clive); Booty, an amazing and talented guitarist and Chiggy the bass player. They were all from Crewe, which is very relevant to the band name. They were joined by Adam Halford, left-handed drummer from a town called Winsford and myself, from Chester. So all in all, we were all from small provincial towns. They were about 23-24 when I met them, and I was 17. There wasn’t too much in common between the band with that particular line-up, and there was always friction between various members of the band, with the exception of Adam, who was by far the most organized of all of us.

++ All of your output was released on Playhard Records. I only know that the label also released a The Bodines 12″. Can you tell me a bit more about the label? How did you end up releasing with them?

Playhard was set-up by a renowned DJ from Manchester called Dave Haslam and Nathan McGough, the son of the Liverpool poet Roger McGough. There were a few bands on the label: The Bodines, King of the Slums, The Exuberants, Kit and The Train Set. Basically they were the only label that would have us! The original deal was made in the Cornerhouse cinema on Whitworth St in Manchester. From that we recorded a total of seven songs, all of which are available to listen to on Last.fm

++ 1988 sees the release of “She’s Gone”, which, I have read, got really good reviews. I also read that at the time 12″ singles weren’t that much appreciated. The Madchester fever was starting as well. What do you remember of those recording sessions and how the single was received?

We recorded “She’s Gone” in studio in central Manchester. I don’t remember much about it except it was in an old warehouse that could only be reached by a rickety old elevator. The main thing about that was just as we were leaving to go to the studio we couldn’t find Booty for hours, it turned out he had been arrested for suspected theft, a crime he was completely innocent of.

The rest of the tracks were recorded over in a studio called Slaughterhouse in Driffield, East Yorkshire. It was a bizarre place, one part of it was an old street that had been covered over and was used an ambient recording area. We arrived the week after the Happy Mondays had been recording there. They’d made quite an impression on the local night-clubs. The locals were still friendly with us in spite of this.

She’s Gone was released twice in the space of a few months, both times on 12″ which will have been to ensure the highest sound quality available at the time. The second time it was released it was named Single of the Week in the NME, which was quite an achievement at the time. It was marvelous to hear out on the radio and when people started singing along with all the tracks it all felt worthwhile.

It was then that the band made the move from their respective home-towns into Manchester. Camel lived in the building next door to Tim from James. He used to pop round occasionally. We actually ended up as second support on tour with them and the Happy Mondays.

++ One year later you release “Hold On”, another 12″. Do you feel the band was going in the same direction as in the first single? Were you all happy with the final result of your singles?

I think all the tracks on the second EP were really good, the only thing was the track order. Because of the subject nature of “Hold On” it was felt that that should be the ‘a’ side, when really ‘Harped on ‘ should have been. It was a much more positive track which really worked live as well. It’s just one of those things that you wished you’d done differently in hindsight.

++ Where there more recordings from the band? Maybe some demos that have been totally forgotten? A retrospective release would be amazing, you know

I’m afraid there are no other recordings I’m aware of. We did have a set of around an hour and a half, so there was more material, we just never got the opportunity to record it. The thing I remember most is our encore versions of “Miss you” by the Rolling Stones, and the theme from the Love Boat, which really used to throw a standard indie crowd.

++ How would you describe The Train Set sound? What were the bands that influenced you?

The key influences for the band were the same as everybody at the time – The Smiths and The Bunnymen. Personally I can’t stand The Smiths, but I worship The Bunnymen. The rest of the band really liked The Smiths, but I just didn’t get them. Beyond that the main musical input was from Booty, who was an amazing guitarist, with a completely natural musicality. We used to spend hours working out the minutest detail. We probably overworked the material, but the tightness of the band was a key element to the whole sound. There was nothing we’d recorded we couldn’t produce live from the same line-up.

++ Did The Train Set play many gigs? any particularly special gigs that you remember?

We gigged extensively on the college circuit, and did two UK tours firstly supporting James, with the Happy Mondays, and then subsequently supported the Mondays on the Bummed tour. That was an experience. Although not as chaotic as you might think. We knew the Mondays quite well as our Manchester rehearsal space was next door to theirs, under a local venue called “The Boardwalk” on Little Peter Street.

One particularly memorable gig for me was at the Astoria on Charing Cross Road in London. Everything just went perfectly, it was the best we’d ever sounded and the audience really enjoyed us. Of course playing at the Hacienda was especially good, it was such an important place, although the sound was always awful there. It was just the wrong shape. The best audience ever was in Norwich, after the gig we were taken around a variety of parties, ending up on an isolated farm in the middle of nowhere wondering where the hell we were and how we’d go there.

We did play some shocking venues as well, I never liked playing Dingwalls in Camden, especially after an altercation with the bouncers during a gig with My Bloody Valentine. Again in Camden I remember playing a venue called the Greyhound. We were headlining and being supported by the Milltown Brothers. There was a really good audience for them, but as soon as we came on the place emptied. Completely. That was a long and miserable 250 mile drive home through the night.

++ Were you involved with any bands before or after The Train Set?

Whilst working with the Train Set I was also starting to get involved with session work and engineering. As the band drifted apart I worked with My Jealous God playing keyboards for their UK tour. After that I worked on more and more dance material, releasing white labels under a range of names, with a variety of singers – the one I’m most proud of is “Quiet Child” by The Sound Foundation. I also worked on remixes for bands like The Christians (The Bottle & DMC remixes of Forgotten Town), and some did some session work with K-Klass, rewriting and playing the main keyboard lines for their remix of Bobby Brown’s “Two Can Play That Game”.

++ Why do you think that during those late eighties there was an explosion of pop kids playing guitar pop? What do you think was the main catalyst for this to happen?

Thinking back to the time, The Smiths and The Bunnymen were a complete breath of fresh air for many people. I think there was a backlash against dance-orientated music at the time. It was all rather lame, just waiting for Acid House to emerge. That what was so interesting about Manchester at that moment, as it was really a crossover between the two genres.

++ What was the best of being part of The Train Set?

Being on the road could be fun, but waiting around for them after the gigs had finished was not. They had a great enthusiasm for enjoying themselves wherever they could, but somebody had to make sure the equipment was safe. It was great to see the songs you’d written being enjoyed by the crowd. That was just what it was all about.

++ Are you still in touch with your fellow The Train Set members? Do you know why the band was called like that?

I haven’t seen any of them for at least 10 years, although I did bump into one of the roadies at Crewe Railway Station a couple of years back. I don’t think he was pleased to see me – we’d never got on. I don’t really know what they’re up to now. I just hope they’re happy.

The name of the band is a cheesy pun based on the fact that the home town of the band, Crewe, is essentially one giant railway junction serving the whole of the north of the UK. That was it, nothing more meaningful at all.

++ Thanks so much! Anything else you’d like to tell the independent pop world out there?

It’s been a pleasure. The only thing left is to quote the great Viv Savage “Have a good time, ALL the time”.

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Listen
The Train Set – Stop Stalling

Thanks so much to Guy De Cruz for the interview!

++ When and where did the band start? What was that main reason that make you come together and start it?

In about 1983 I was in a school band with my mate Doug Cheeseman.  We were rubbish but we enjoyed the hopes of stardom. After school we drafted in Mark Parsons on drums and Pete on vocals and became The Bakers Sons.  We were inspired by guitar indie pop and challenged The Housemartins to a game of four-a-side football.  They replied but declined.  I reckon they were scared.  After a year of gigging, Doug decided to go to university and the band split up.  I joined My Life Story as bass player but I was restless and so left to form my own band.  I started on guitar at this point and in 1988, The Men of Westenesse were born.  We began as Me on guitar and songwriting duties, Mark (ex Bakers Sons) on Bass and Rick on drums.
After about a year, Mark got bored on bass and Rick got mored of Mark.  So bored that he went to America!  Mark switched to drums and in came Sean on Bass.  We became great friends and the band worked very well.  We had loads of songs and demo’d very few of them.  Mark was one of the most miserable people you’ll ever meet and went off to sulk somewhere.  In came Andy Hayes to replace him.  Shortly after Doug joined this new band on lead guitar and the final line up was with Jon Grove on drums.  To answer the where part of your question, it began in Cnavey Island and Benfleet and moved on to Southen on Sea – all of which are in Essex (South East of England).

++ Why the name Men of Westenesse?

I always had wanted to call a band I was in Billy Liar but no one thought that was any good.  I had spent ages getting through Lord of the Rings and so plumped for the name from that as I though Strider was quite cool.  I laboured under the misapprehension that some of that cool would rub off. Oh well.

++ Men of Westenesse only released one single, the splendid “Coldest Water”. It included also English Tragedy, This is Your Life, Everybody’s Fan Club. What do you remember of these recording session? Did the single get good reviews?

Thanks for the positive feedback about the Coldest Water.  I remember that the session was our first ever time in a recording studio. I remember that Sean and I paid half each ofr recording and pressing.  I had received some money from my dad’s unfortunate death and Sean had some savings – and a job!
I remember the studio was on a farm and that it was summer.  While we were recording, the smell of pig shit kept drifting through the air conditioning – not nice.

I remember putting an electronic piano sound on the chorus to fill out the sound and it being difficult to get to run in time with Mark’s drumming.  I also remember that Mark’s drumming was so dodgy with regard to timing that we put a click track on the headphones.  It came out in all of ours.  We had to have it so loud that if you turn up this is your life very loud, at the end you can hear the click track picking up on the drum microphones! I enjoyed playing the reverse guitar bit at the beginning of English Tragedy and was always a little disappointed that no one seemed to notice that song as a good track.  When Men of Westenesse got Doug and Jon in, we changed our name to Bootless.  We recorded a single with that band as well – Boating which was on the Firestation Records album and 1981 Hero of the Bikesheds. I remember one newspaper reviewing the single and saying that I had a voice like Leonard Cohen on a downer.  I took it as a compliment. We got an interview with Go! Discs at the tiem and they told me my songs needed to grow up.  A little harsh I thought.  Not a nice thing to say to a twenty year old.

++ What about Cassie Records, who were they?

Cassie records?  Completely made up.  One of my friends at the time had a little girl called Cassie so that was it really.

++ Is Coldest Water your full discography or did you take part of compilations?

A new band that I formed with others was The Hypocrites and we were on a charity cd called Southend Rock.  Corny and not very good but it was for a good cause.  There is also a song on there called Laurel.  Our old drummer Andy thought I was making moves on his girlfriend (I wasn’t I hasten to add) so he wrote a nasty song about me and put it on this cd.  Ah the price of fame!

++ You just released “Are You Brothers?”, a 15 song retrospective CD with Firestation Records. How did this happen?

I was so chuffed with the Firestation album.  Sean got a letter from Uwe at his parent’s address and passed it on to me.  I emailed Uwe and he asked if he could use one of our tracks for the Sounds of Leamington Spa compilations.  I said of course and sent him all our old demos.  After a couple of chats it was agreed to put them together on an album.  I am pleased as punch – if not a little mystified by the interest.

++ I’ve heard there are even more songs that didn’t end up on the CD. How many songs did Men of Westenesse record? Why weren’t these released during those late 80s?

As far as other songs go, there were more recorded but they were always released on tapes and sold at gigs – you know, self funding band etc.  They werent included on the final album because I think Uwe had a good idea of exactly what he was after and for me, they are all too personal to choose from.  Also, they always sound like not proper songs to me so I let Uwe decide.  They were never released because at the time (sound like an old man now) indie really did mean indie, not a trendy name for a major label front but a real label like the original Creation label.  We couldnt afford to release any other ones.  The Coldest Water cost us nearly £1000 at the time.  I’m not sure about the real amount of how many more were recorded but there were definitely more.

++ Listening to your songs it’s hard to believe why weren’t you more popular. These songs are GREAT! Was it lack of promotion? Why do you think gems like these had to wait 20 years to be unearthed?

I think they never got heard because after the Go! Discs interview and then one with Bad Girl records (Family Cat) I gave up trying.  Maybe that’s why people seem to like them – because they weren’t written for a purpose, they were just written.  They were honest – if a little pretentious.  I think a fear of failure plus laziness on the part of the whole band stopped us getting any further.  But then, everything has a shelf life I suppose and we reached ours and stopped.

++ How did Men of Westenesse songs came to life? Who wrote the songs? What was the process behind them?

The songwriting duties were mine.  Before Doug joined, I would write all the songs, record a demo of them on my 4 track and then arrogantly proceed to tell everybody what I wanted to hear.  I would write the bass line and teach it to Sean.  When Doug joined, he generally wrote his own guitar parts but the songs were always mine.  They were always about something, never random or made up.  Doug and I got to a point where at times he could be very negative about parts of songs so I invented a rule that if you didnt like a part, you couldnt slag it off unless you had written a better part.  I think we disagreed on a lot of things creatively and this was fundamental in the band splitting up.

++ You were in Bakers Sons and My Life Story. Honestly, never heard about these bands before. Can you tell me a bit about them? Did you release anything with these bands? What about Seamus ex band, Jump Boys?

The Bakers Sons did one demo tape and it had three songs on it.  I used to love that band and our attitude but it was a bright short flame. My Life Story are apparently still touring in Europe etc. Quite big apparently.
The Jump Boys were like the Bakers Sons but more influenced by the Undertones.

++ I read that the main influences for you were The Weather Prophets, Lloyd Cole, Felt and especially The Jam. Did you like any bands from those late 80s? the c86 guitar pop bands?

The C86 bands?  I loved them.  I loved anything with clean and really jangly guitars.  I loved and still love any one who can use a D chord and make it really ring.  You cant beat a Rickenbacker or Telecaster for that sound.

I still buy original indie records when I can find them.  The Shop Assistants, Jesse Gaaron and the Desperadoes, The Loft, Orange Juice (a little earlier than 86), later on I loved the first Trashcan Sinatras album.  The Feelies were a great band.  The Lemonheads – again, later but still great.  World Party for the political bit.  Never got too much into the Waterboys – bit too diddlee dee for me.

++ Did you feel part of a scene at all? Were you involved in the fanzine culture?

I dont think we ever felt part of a scene.  We were very insulated and into what we were doing never really lifting our heads to get involved in cliques.  They are, from experience, a very dangerous animal and one that I wanted to steer well clear of.  Having said that, there were some fantastic bands in Southend at the time.  The Windmills were probably the best of them.  Tortoise Shout were a great band and there was, originally an all girl band, Wednesday’s Child who at one point had interest from Steve Lamacq but I think it was too overblown.

++ Were you more of a recording band or did you gig often?

We were much more of a gigging band.  I used to love playing live but we went through a phase where I was writing quiet songs – some of my favourites actually – and you could hear people in the audience talking.  It used to really piss me off.

++ Looking back in time, what is that that you miss the most of being part of Men of Westenesse?

What do I miss most?  Being a part of something that I made, that I trusted and that I had full belief in. That’s prbably another reason why we didnt get anywhere, because it didnt matter if no one else like it, I did and that was all that mattered.  I had the conviction of Morrissey/Marr without the talent.  I blame them personally – bad role models.I

++ Why and when did the band call it a day?

I think the band called it a day because I got tired of the attitude of the others and they got tired of me.  It’s a shame but then it was all quite amicable.  Sean said, I’m fed up with this, I’m leaving the band and I said, ‘Yeah, me too’ and that was it.  Must have been around 1993-4 I think.

++ Anything you’d like to tell to the guitar pop fans of the world?

Guitar pop fans of the world?  Yes I’d like to tell them something.
It’s not worth it unless there’s been some cost to the person writing the song.  A well played D chord is as close as you’ll get to heaven on earth and anyone who says they’re in an indie band now is mistaken.  Keep enjoying real music made by real people.  What’s the line?  ‘All I’ve got is this red guitar, three chords and the truth.’

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Listen
Men of Westenesse – The Coldest Water