Thanks to Martin Cotter Cotter for the interview!!

++ Hi Martin! How did the Wee Cherubs come together?

I had been in a band called Radio Ghosts, we had been playing & gigging for years and it was becoming stale, so I left. The RG’s were a kind of Gang of Four, noisy, angular agit-pop type of bunch, highly original and very guitar-y, but with a fair bit of attitude and much misery – most of it coming from me!

So by the time I left I was ready for something quieter and more subtle, where you could hear actual music, the guitar tones and so on, and where not every second was filled with spiky noise. I also wanted to write melodic but probably less commercial songs; songs that I had in my head but knew were wrong for the RG’s. They weren’t even all songs – just fragments; but I wanted to let them out and experiment with them.

Christine was my true love at that time, she was playing guitar in a band called Rapid Dance. I can’t remember if she quit or if they split, but she started learning to play bass in the new post-RG band. We really were just doing it for fun. I was writing material that would never have been performed by the RG’s, and so far as I knew at that time, would never actually go further than just personal enjoyment.

Then we started realising that a few of the songs had – something. We were very friendly with other Glasgow indie bands, notably Apes in Control. Their drummer Graham was one of me & Christine’s closest friends, so he was absolutely perfect for us and was happy to split his time between the Apes and ourselves.

So we started rehearsing as a 3-piece, and soon started thinking about playing and recording, as the songs began to develop & mature. The music we were making at that time, I can’t stress this enough, was being created entirely in isolation, independent of our contemporaries, and any other “twee” influences.

If you’d known us at that time, you’d know that this was just the way we were. It was never deliberately anything – it was what actually came out. I always felt that bands such as the Pastels, who we never listened to at all, had a deliberate strategy and actively tried to promote their identity. They acted the way they wanted to be perceived; we however were way too stoned, and simple-minded, to even consider that. Certainly I was!

++ Dreaming is indeed one of the greatest pop tunes ever recorded. What was your inspiration to write this tune?

Ocht away you go. No specific event that I can recall. Tunes come from nowhere, and if you’re lucky, the words come easily and at the same time. Something you have to force out won’t sound as natural. Dreaming was just a nice chord sequence for the chorus, and the lyrics cover an imagined situation where a fellow has been so enraptured by his true love that he doesn’t realise she’s moving away from him all the time (“I lived for a while in a film, in a dream….”), until when he finally snaps out of it, by which time it’s too late (“when I woke up at last….”) – she’s nicked off with someone else. He’s then reminiscing and feeling generally sorry for himself (“a photograph of two happy kids…”) and starting to be get pathetic (“I could change but…”). I think at that time in my life, losing love and fear of losing love had more impact on me that being in love.

A song that had a peculiar inspiration was “Painless” (from the Rainforest demo). I had a dream I was watching the Smiths on TV, and when I woke up, I could still remember the tune! so while I still had it in my mind, I grabbed my guitar and worked out the chords, and used the same vocal line that Morrissey had been singing – about being Painless. It turned out to be one of our best songs. I even sent a recording of it to the great man himself, explaining how the song came into being; that we had “stolen” a song I dreamed they had played….and he wrote back on a nice postcard saying “I like it, now what?” And I have to admit, that stumped me.

++ You recorded the Dreaming single on 1983 but it didn’t get released till 1984. Why was that?

I honestly can’t remember. Probably too dissolute to get things organised any quicker. There was a hell of a lot of blow around then.

++ How many copies of the record were pressed? I have read that only 400. Are you aware of how collectible this single has become? for many it is the holy grail of indiepop!

Well, we pressed 1000. I do hear that it’s quite collectable and this makes me quite sad and bereft…

The Cherubs were never ‘big’, even locally. So a few years after Christine had left and the band split up, I still had boxes of the single left. It never sold much then, because we were much too disorganised and unprofessional to have done anything like arranging any distribution for it – we just recorded it because that seemed like a good idea at the time.

So one day, maybe 5 years after the Cherubs split, I was moving house; and rather than keep lugging around the 10 or so boxes that I still had (each with 25 copies of the Dreaming single), and have to find space for them in my new flat, I took them out and dumped them in a skip.

No wonder I’m sad.

++ What about the Bog A Ten label? Who were they? This was their second release right?

This was Apes in Control’s label. They released a single called Funtimes/Joined in the Dance, Dreaming was the second single.

As I said we were very friendly with them and we had captured their drummer, so they kindly invited us to release Dreaming on their label. They were / are very good folks, extremely creative and kind – but not business people really. Or at all, come to that.

Bogaten – if I recall the name came from a Bob Hope/Bing Crobsy road movie, and was also a monster in a later trashy sci-fi film.

Why they thought it was a good name for a record label, God knows. Remember what I said about the blow.

++ I read you also recorded a demo tape called “Rainforest”, when was this recorded and which songs does it include?

It was recorded before the session where we did Dreaming, I think, and had 4 songs – Poor Little Lost Soul, Pastures New, Waiting, and (seriously), Theme from an Imaginary Channel Four Documentary (an instrumental).

The name from the last one – as well as being a reference to Sergio Leone’s Theme from an Imaginary Western – came about because C4 was just opening and they were actually holding a competition to get some background music for their various logos.

So we put this ‘song’ together (it was really just a spacey improvisation), but as I recall, and quite typically of us, never quite got it together enough to actually ever enter the competition.

++ Why didn’t you release more records? Have you ever thought about compiling all your recordings on one CD?

Money, and the band didn’t stay together long enough. We had great fun though and although I would behave differently if I had the chance to do it all again, I wouldn’t have missed it for the world.

I’ve never thought there would be much interest in what we did, so I’ve never considered doing a compilation. I don’t think the master tapes exist any more anyway!

++ Fashion during those early eighties was quite different from the one we came to know post-c86 tape as I can see on the photo on the 7″! What was the usual indie guitar pop kid outfit back then?

Oh for me tartan / antique shirts were de rigeur, I used to get mine from charity shops or from Flip in Queen Street (Glasgow) which at that time was an absolute goldmine for loads of second hand American/foreign stuff. Tartan shirt, maybe a bootlace tie, old suit trousers – all second hand. I do remember I used to have a great pair of leather boots – they were old 1950’s skating boots and the skates had been taken off. They took 10 minutes to lace up – they were great!

Christine had her own unique gamine style which again was not driven by any of the poserish, deliberate trends at that time; she, above any of the three of us and above anyone else I knew, was the complete embodiment of vulnerable, slightly hopeless but irresistibly lovable chic that eventually became the “twee” badge of preference. But she’d been like that all her life – it wasn’t something she ever ‘became’.

++ Being from Scotland I guess you were influenced by the Postcard Records releases, am I right? Did you go to gigs of any of their bands?

We were as I said pretty independent, to the extent of being slightly isolated. I was listening to a huge range of music and I did of course know about Postcard Records, and it was part of the soundtrack to that time for me; I’d have to acknowledge it would have been an influence, stylistically, that would be unavoidable.

But there was no blatant attempt to sound like Aztec Camera or Orange Juice or whoever, much as we liked them. We’d be subliminally absorbing them and it would have shaped some of the nuances of our sound; but then again, our sound was so varied that I don’t know that you’d categorise it as being Postcard-like.

If you’d been to any gigs, and if you listen to the two demos and Dreaming, you can pick up a major range of styles and influences, from the Blue Orchids to the Zombies. I don’t even think there was such a thing as a Cherubs sound: I have an old video of us playing a gig in Kelvingrove Park in Glasgow, and every single song is musically quite different. The only commonality is that the same three people are making the music.

++ What were the bands that you were listening at the time and influenced the Wee Cherubs?

Everybody!

++ Did the Wee Cherubs gig a lot? Any particular gig that you remember the most?

We gigged a bit, not really a lot. I remember we played a series of Sunday evening gigs at a sort of socialist’s social club for a time, these were great, that was where we developed a lot of the songs, and was where I met Tommy Cherry, who eventually I formed the Bachelor Pad with a while after the Cherubs spilt.

We also played a gig (the one mentioned in Kelvingrove Park) where we shared a bill with the Oysters but we played alternate songs; we’d play a song, then the Oysters would play a song (while we stood around and watched!), then we’d play a song and so forth – that puzzled a few people, naturally.

This wasn’t actually a gig but when we were starting out, we tried to get extra dates in a pub in Glasgow that loads of influential bands used (the Doune Castle). We already had gigs lined up so we used a different name, and I went to see the manager in disguise. Discussions went OK until I told him that the name of the band was “The Whustlin’ Poofs”. He didn’t like that.

One gig we played in Glasgow where the P.A. company we were friendly with brought their entire range of equipment. Normally we’d hire say the £50 offering, which was more than enough for our needs; but they wanted to see what it would sound like if they hooked up every speaker and amp they had. The loudest gig for the quietest band! It sounded great from on stage, and it looked like Pink Floyd’s sound system instead of ours; sadly I’m reliably informed that for the audience it sucked – loud, but bad!

++ Why did the Wee Cherubs call it a day?

Christine moved down to England to answer a long-held belief that she should make shoes for a living. That was the end of our relationship and with it, the end of the band. We did meet up again a couple of years later when she played bass in the Bachelor Pad!

++ Thanks so much Martin, anything else you’d like to add?

Think I’ve bored you enough!

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Listen
Wee Cherubs – Pastures New

Thanks to Jo Bartlett for the interview!

++ Hello! Though Danny wrote some great liner notes for the Some Greater Love CD, I still want to know more about the mighty Bluetrain! The band started when Kevin Moorey replaced Mike Auton on drums and Go!Service changed it’s name to Bluetrain, right? Why didn’t you keep the name? And why did you choose calling it Bluetrain?

We started writing a batch of new songs when Kevin joined the band. His influences were different to Mike’s which mean the music took on a slighty new sound. Kevin was listening to A Certain Ratio, The Pale Fountains etc which we all got into. We were also listening to a lot of jazz / blue note at this time. Blue Train by John Coltrane was a particular favourite, so we re named the band in his honour. It made sense to have a new band name to go with this fresh new music we were making.

++ Something that I find curious and really lovely is that all of you went to the same primary school. Were you friends back then? Would you have expected that all of you were going to make music and more over, together?

Myself and Rudy are both the youngest of six children – all his siblings were in the same classes as all my siblings! His older brother Tom was in the same class as my brother (also called Tom!) Danny and Kevin were also in this class. So the two Toms, Danny and Kevin were friends at school. Rudy was actually in the year below me. We all knew each other and would all be at the same parties etc. It was only a while later we actually started playing music together. I guess I would have been pretty suprised to know we’d still be making music together so many years later! Rudy plays in The Yellow Moon Band with myself and Danny now and our debut album is released next week, so yeah, it’s all quite strange really!

++ You had already released the Go!Service 12″ on Dreamworld before releasing, on the same label, the “Land of Gold” 12″. How did Dan Treacy react to the name change? Was it easy to work with him? Any particular anecdote about such an influencing figure?

Dan was fine about the name change, he understood. We were very young so had no experience of working with anyone before Dan. Looking back he was pretty eccentric. This was before e mails or mobile ‘phones so the only way we would get in touch was really when Dan would ‘phone on my parent’s land line. He would disappear for weeks at a time and then my Mum would call up the stairs ‘ Dan’s on the ‘phone’ and I would run down, really happy to hear from him. It took about a year from recording the Go! Service single before it actually came out. He was great to work with and helped organise us loads of gigs at his Room At The Top club in Camden. We supported bands like The June Brides, That Petrol Emotion, The Mekons (it was a room above a pub and it was so full for that gig that we all nearly crashed through the floor – the landlord kept coming up the stairs looking terrified as the ceiling below was shaking!), 1,000 Violins, The Housemartins and of corse The TV Personalities. We also went on tour round Europe with the TV Ps – that was an incredible experience. Rudy had his 16th birthday on tour!

++ The single nowadays is such a sought after item for collectors. It can go for over 150 GBP! How do you feel about this? Do you know how limited is this single? 1000 copies?

I think it was 1,000 copies. I’m chuffed to bits to think that it has become a collector’s item. We were all so proud when both singles came out. I worked in a record shop when the Bluetrain one came out and I would get a real thrill when someone I didn’t know would come in and buy it. Someone once actually said ‘I’m friends with the band, I know Jo’ when they bought it, that made me giggle as she obvioulsy didn’t know me at all!

++ Just a curious question, why the opening track on the Land of Gold 12″ is ‘Wheels Go Round’ and not ‘Land of Gold’?

A mistake at the pressing plant!

++ You made a lovely video for Land of Gold too. Was this your idea or the label’s? Where was it recorded and how much fun was doing it?

Dan was friends with a film student who made the video as part of his course. We were really lucky. It was great fun making it – that area is the docklands in London and is now full of very exclusive apartments.

++ You ran a club in Surrey called The Buzz Club. You had quite a lot of initiative! What was the best of running this club? I bet you booked all of your favourite bands, right? Who were some of those bands that brought their talent to your town?

Well, we were inspired by Dan and his club in London. Again we were really young and didn’t know what we were doing, but we learned by picking up a phone and as you say, booking all our favourite bands. We ran the club once a month and the list of bands is pretty impressive, again this is something we’re really proud of: The June Brides, That Petrol Emotion, The Mighty Lemon Drops, Primal Scream, The Stone Roses, The Charlatans, The Manic Street Preachers, Suede, Elastica…..that’s just off the top of my head, many more played there.

++ On Parade, one of my favourite songs, there’s a guest appearance by Jon from The June Brides playing his trumpet. How did it happen? Did you find that it was easy to cooperate between bands? Most people I’ve interviewed from the time say that there wasn’t really a scene, that everyone was doing their own thing.

We had played with The June Brides a few times and thought Jon’s trumpet would sound great on that track – he kindly agreed and I think it worked a treat. There was a scene, we were based just outside of London and so were on the fringes of that scene. I think each city had it’s own thing going on, usually with a cool label to go with it. So maybe lots of small scenes? If there had been a festival everyone could have played back in those days, you could have brought all those cities together and it would have been an awesome line up!

++ Rudy leaves the band and Frank arrives from America, right? How did you find him? Do you remember what that Melody Maker advert said?

I remember him ‘phoning up for the first time after he saw the advert, but no, I’m afraid I can’t remeber exactly what the ad said. I asked him what guitar he played and when he said a Rickenbacker – he was pretty much in straight away!

++ With this new lineup you recorded three new tracks “Some Greater Love”, “Decline” and “You Bring Me Back to Life”. Only Some Greater Love was released on two tape compilations: Abigail’s Birthday Party and the Uncle Arthur’s Pop Parlour. Do you remember who made this compilations? I believe they even came with fanzines, right? I only know the tracklists…

Abigail’s Birthday Party was made by Dave Driscoll. He was a Buzz Club regular. I forgot about Uncle Arthur’s Pop Parlour, now you mention it, was it Scottish? I wonder if it was something to do with The Soup Dragons – we were friendly with Sushil from the band and he had a fanzine. Umm, I’m not sure about that one.

++ After that you recorded two more songs, with a new line-up change, “Twenty Years” and “Reason to Be”. Why weren’t these, or the previous three, part of a proper release, a second single? It would have been so great

I don’t know. Frank went back to America and Danny and I knew we wanted to go there too, so I think those last two recordings never got played to anyone really. I can’t remeber why the three with Frank on guitar didn’t come out. We never fell out with Dan / Dreamworld, maybe we just driffted apart or something. That was actually a fairly busy time, when Frank was in the band. We toured Scotland and played with The Pastels and The Mighty Lemon Drops (who had got pretty big by then) and were getting offered gigs in Paris and other European cities.

++ Going back to fanzines, was Bluetrain involved in the fanzine culture of the time?

Danny and myself had a go at doing one. I can’t remember what it was going to be called. We got a far as interviewing Peter Hooton from Liverpool band, The Farm but I don’t think we ever actually finished the first issue. There was alway at least one skinny kid selling fanzines at the gigs we played, especially London. The Legend AKA Everette True used to always be at the gigs at The Room at the Top with a plasitc bag full of fanzines for sale. We were interviewed by a fair few too. I used to love those fanzines.

++Something that is quite interesting is that Bluetrain sounds totally different from most of the bands in UK during those late 80s. You were still a guitar pop band, but your sound was closer to the early 80s, that of Lotus Eaters or Pale Fountains, to the neo-acoustic sound, than that of the jangly C86 sound. What were the bands that you’d say influenced your sound?

We all had slightly different tastes. Danny and I were probably the most classic indie kids in the band – we loved The Loft, The June Brides, Lloyd Cole (me especially when it comes to Lloyd), Orange Juice, all the Postcard stuff, Kevin introduced us to The Pale Fountains and funk music, Rudy was listening to jazz. We all enjoyed the music we played to each other and knew it was great to stretch our horizons.

++ Why did you decide to call it a day?

Danny and I went to America for six months – we hooked up with Frank and played with a friend of his on drums. We played a few gigs as Bluetrain. When Danny and I returned to the UK we moved from our parent’s houses in Surrey to London and got caught up in that whole world. We always had a band on the go though. Jump Rope, J.D. and Bob until finally we recorded as It’s Jo and Danny and had our most success with our self released album ‘Lank Haired Girl To Bearded Boy’

++ Thanks so much. Anything you’d like to add?

Thanks very much Roque, I’ve really enjoyed the memories your questions have inspired.

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Listen
Bluetrain – Some Greater Love

Thanks to David Hassall for the interview.

++ The only article I’ve ever found about The Train Set was on the Foxdude Records page and the information there is still not much. The only bit of information that strikes me is that the band was only around 1988 to 1990 according to it. Why did The Train Set last that little?

The Train Set were formed around 1985-86 as far as I’m aware, maybe earlier. I joined in 1986 when their singer Camel saw me playing at the college we both attended. I was on a music course and he was on a film course.

Basically the band lasted as long as they could release records, and then everyone just drifted off to other things. By then the original bass player had left to teach English in Brazil. I don’t think anyone heard from him ever again.

++ How and where did the band start? Who were the members? When and how you join the band? What was that thing in common amongst you that made the band work?

I think they started when they were at school together. The three main members were Camel, the singer (named after a character on a chocolate bar – his real name was Clive); Booty, an amazing and talented guitarist and Chiggy the bass player. They were all from Crewe, which is very relevant to the band name. They were joined by Adam Halford, left-handed drummer from a town called Winsford and myself, from Chester. So all in all, we were all from small provincial towns. They were about 23-24 when I met them, and I was 17. There wasn’t too much in common between the band with that particular line-up, and there was always friction between various members of the band, with the exception of Adam, who was by far the most organized of all of us.

++ All of your output was released on Playhard Records. I only know that the label also released a The Bodines 12″. Can you tell me a bit more about the label? How did you end up releasing with them?

Playhard was set-up by a renowned DJ from Manchester called Dave Haslam and Nathan McGough, the son of the Liverpool poet Roger McGough. There were a few bands on the label: The Bodines, King of the Slums, The Exuberants, Kit and The Train Set. Basically they were the only label that would have us! The original deal was made in the Cornerhouse cinema on Whitworth St in Manchester. From that we recorded a total of seven songs, all of which are available to listen to on Last.fm

++ 1988 sees the release of “She’s Gone”, which, I have read, got really good reviews. I also read that at the time 12″ singles weren’t that much appreciated. The Madchester fever was starting as well. What do you remember of those recording sessions and how the single was received?

We recorded “She’s Gone” in studio in central Manchester. I don’t remember much about it except it was in an old warehouse that could only be reached by a rickety old elevator. The main thing about that was just as we were leaving to go to the studio we couldn’t find Booty for hours, it turned out he had been arrested for suspected theft, a crime he was completely innocent of.

The rest of the tracks were recorded over in a studio called Slaughterhouse in Driffield, East Yorkshire. It was a bizarre place, one part of it was an old street that had been covered over and was used an ambient recording area. We arrived the week after the Happy Mondays had been recording there. They’d made quite an impression on the local night-clubs. The locals were still friendly with us in spite of this.

She’s Gone was released twice in the space of a few months, both times on 12″ which will have been to ensure the highest sound quality available at the time. The second time it was released it was named Single of the Week in the NME, which was quite an achievement at the time. It was marvelous to hear out on the radio and when people started singing along with all the tracks it all felt worthwhile.

It was then that the band made the move from their respective home-towns into Manchester. Camel lived in the building next door to Tim from James. He used to pop round occasionally. We actually ended up as second support on tour with them and the Happy Mondays.

++ One year later you release “Hold On”, another 12″. Do you feel the band was going in the same direction as in the first single? Were you all happy with the final result of your singles?

I think all the tracks on the second EP were really good, the only thing was the track order. Because of the subject nature of “Hold On” it was felt that that should be the ‘a’ side, when really ‘Harped on ‘ should have been. It was a much more positive track which really worked live as well. It’s just one of those things that you wished you’d done differently in hindsight.

++ Where there more recordings from the band? Maybe some demos that have been totally forgotten? A retrospective release would be amazing, you know

I’m afraid there are no other recordings I’m aware of. We did have a set of around an hour and a half, so there was more material, we just never got the opportunity to record it. The thing I remember most is our encore versions of “Miss you” by the Rolling Stones, and the theme from the Love Boat, which really used to throw a standard indie crowd.

++ How would you describe The Train Set sound? What were the bands that influenced you?

The key influences for the band were the same as everybody at the time – The Smiths and The Bunnymen. Personally I can’t stand The Smiths, but I worship The Bunnymen. The rest of the band really liked The Smiths, but I just didn’t get them. Beyond that the main musical input was from Booty, who was an amazing guitarist, with a completely natural musicality. We used to spend hours working out the minutest detail. We probably overworked the material, but the tightness of the band was a key element to the whole sound. There was nothing we’d recorded we couldn’t produce live from the same line-up.

++ Did The Train Set play many gigs? any particularly special gigs that you remember?

We gigged extensively on the college circuit, and did two UK tours firstly supporting James, with the Happy Mondays, and then subsequently supported the Mondays on the Bummed tour. That was an experience. Although not as chaotic as you might think. We knew the Mondays quite well as our Manchester rehearsal space was next door to theirs, under a local venue called “The Boardwalk” on Little Peter Street.

One particularly memorable gig for me was at the Astoria on Charing Cross Road in London. Everything just went perfectly, it was the best we’d ever sounded and the audience really enjoyed us. Of course playing at the Hacienda was especially good, it was such an important place, although the sound was always awful there. It was just the wrong shape. The best audience ever was in Norwich, after the gig we were taken around a variety of parties, ending up on an isolated farm in the middle of nowhere wondering where the hell we were and how we’d go there.

We did play some shocking venues as well, I never liked playing Dingwalls in Camden, especially after an altercation with the bouncers during a gig with My Bloody Valentine. Again in Camden I remember playing a venue called the Greyhound. We were headlining and being supported by the Milltown Brothers. There was a really good audience for them, but as soon as we came on the place emptied. Completely. That was a long and miserable 250 mile drive home through the night.

++ Were you involved with any bands before or after The Train Set?

Whilst working with the Train Set I was also starting to get involved with session work and engineering. As the band drifted apart I worked with My Jealous God playing keyboards for their UK tour. After that I worked on more and more dance material, releasing white labels under a range of names, with a variety of singers – the one I’m most proud of is “Quiet Child” by The Sound Foundation. I also worked on remixes for bands like The Christians (The Bottle & DMC remixes of Forgotten Town), and some did some session work with K-Klass, rewriting and playing the main keyboard lines for their remix of Bobby Brown’s “Two Can Play That Game”.

++ Why do you think that during those late eighties there was an explosion of pop kids playing guitar pop? What do you think was the main catalyst for this to happen?

Thinking back to the time, The Smiths and The Bunnymen were a complete breath of fresh air for many people. I think there was a backlash against dance-orientated music at the time. It was all rather lame, just waiting for Acid House to emerge. That what was so interesting about Manchester at that moment, as it was really a crossover between the two genres.

++ What was the best of being part of The Train Set?

Being on the road could be fun, but waiting around for them after the gigs had finished was not. They had a great enthusiasm for enjoying themselves wherever they could, but somebody had to make sure the equipment was safe. It was great to see the songs you’d written being enjoyed by the crowd. That was just what it was all about.

++ Are you still in touch with your fellow The Train Set members? Do you know why the band was called like that?

I haven’t seen any of them for at least 10 years, although I did bump into one of the roadies at Crewe Railway Station a couple of years back. I don’t think he was pleased to see me – we’d never got on. I don’t really know what they’re up to now. I just hope they’re happy.

The name of the band is a cheesy pun based on the fact that the home town of the band, Crewe, is essentially one giant railway junction serving the whole of the north of the UK. That was it, nothing more meaningful at all.

++ Thanks so much! Anything else you’d like to tell the independent pop world out there?

It’s been a pleasure. The only thing left is to quote the great Viv Savage “Have a good time, ALL the time”.

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Listen
The Train Set – Stop Stalling

Thanks so much to Guy De Cruz for the interview!

++ When and where did the band start? What was that main reason that make you come together and start it?

In about 1983 I was in a school band with my mate Doug Cheeseman.  We were rubbish but we enjoyed the hopes of stardom. After school we drafted in Mark Parsons on drums and Pete on vocals and became The Bakers Sons.  We were inspired by guitar indie pop and challenged The Housemartins to a game of four-a-side football.  They replied but declined.  I reckon they were scared.  After a year of gigging, Doug decided to go to university and the band split up.  I joined My Life Story as bass player but I was restless and so left to form my own band.  I started on guitar at this point and in 1988, The Men of Westenesse were born.  We began as Me on guitar and songwriting duties, Mark (ex Bakers Sons) on Bass and Rick on drums.
After about a year, Mark got bored on bass and Rick got mored of Mark.  So bored that he went to America!  Mark switched to drums and in came Sean on Bass.  We became great friends and the band worked very well.  We had loads of songs and demo’d very few of them.  Mark was one of the most miserable people you’ll ever meet and went off to sulk somewhere.  In came Andy Hayes to replace him.  Shortly after Doug joined this new band on lead guitar and the final line up was with Jon Grove on drums.  To answer the where part of your question, it began in Cnavey Island and Benfleet and moved on to Southen on Sea – all of which are in Essex (South East of England).

++ Why the name Men of Westenesse?

I always had wanted to call a band I was in Billy Liar but no one thought that was any good.  I had spent ages getting through Lord of the Rings and so plumped for the name from that as I though Strider was quite cool.  I laboured under the misapprehension that some of that cool would rub off. Oh well.

++ Men of Westenesse only released one single, the splendid “Coldest Water”. It included also English Tragedy, This is Your Life, Everybody’s Fan Club. What do you remember of these recording session? Did the single get good reviews?

Thanks for the positive feedback about the Coldest Water.  I remember that the session was our first ever time in a recording studio. I remember that Sean and I paid half each ofr recording and pressing.  I had received some money from my dad’s unfortunate death and Sean had some savings – and a job!
I remember the studio was on a farm and that it was summer.  While we were recording, the smell of pig shit kept drifting through the air conditioning – not nice.

I remember putting an electronic piano sound on the chorus to fill out the sound and it being difficult to get to run in time with Mark’s drumming.  I also remember that Mark’s drumming was so dodgy with regard to timing that we put a click track on the headphones.  It came out in all of ours.  We had to have it so loud that if you turn up this is your life very loud, at the end you can hear the click track picking up on the drum microphones! I enjoyed playing the reverse guitar bit at the beginning of English Tragedy and was always a little disappointed that no one seemed to notice that song as a good track.  When Men of Westenesse got Doug and Jon in, we changed our name to Bootless.  We recorded a single with that band as well – Boating which was on the Firestation Records album and 1981 Hero of the Bikesheds. I remember one newspaper reviewing the single and saying that I had a voice like Leonard Cohen on a downer.  I took it as a compliment. We got an interview with Go! Discs at the tiem and they told me my songs needed to grow up.  A little harsh I thought.  Not a nice thing to say to a twenty year old.

++ What about Cassie Records, who were they?

Cassie records?  Completely made up.  One of my friends at the time had a little girl called Cassie so that was it really.

++ Is Coldest Water your full discography or did you take part of compilations?

A new band that I formed with others was The Hypocrites and we were on a charity cd called Southend Rock.  Corny and not very good but it was for a good cause.  There is also a song on there called Laurel.  Our old drummer Andy thought I was making moves on his girlfriend (I wasn’t I hasten to add) so he wrote a nasty song about me and put it on this cd.  Ah the price of fame!

++ You just released “Are You Brothers?”, a 15 song retrospective CD with Firestation Records. How did this happen?

I was so chuffed with the Firestation album.  Sean got a letter from Uwe at his parent’s address and passed it on to me.  I emailed Uwe and he asked if he could use one of our tracks for the Sounds of Leamington Spa compilations.  I said of course and sent him all our old demos.  After a couple of chats it was agreed to put them together on an album.  I am pleased as punch – if not a little mystified by the interest.

++ I’ve heard there are even more songs that didn’t end up on the CD. How many songs did Men of Westenesse record? Why weren’t these released during those late 80s?

As far as other songs go, there were more recorded but they were always released on tapes and sold at gigs – you know, self funding band etc.  They werent included on the final album because I think Uwe had a good idea of exactly what he was after and for me, they are all too personal to choose from.  Also, they always sound like not proper songs to me so I let Uwe decide.  They were never released because at the time (sound like an old man now) indie really did mean indie, not a trendy name for a major label front but a real label like the original Creation label.  We couldnt afford to release any other ones.  The Coldest Water cost us nearly £1000 at the time.  I’m not sure about the real amount of how many more were recorded but there were definitely more.

++ Listening to your songs it’s hard to believe why weren’t you more popular. These songs are GREAT! Was it lack of promotion? Why do you think gems like these had to wait 20 years to be unearthed?

I think they never got heard because after the Go! Discs interview and then one with Bad Girl records (Family Cat) I gave up trying.  Maybe that’s why people seem to like them – because they weren’t written for a purpose, they were just written.  They were honest – if a little pretentious.  I think a fear of failure plus laziness on the part of the whole band stopped us getting any further.  But then, everything has a shelf life I suppose and we reached ours and stopped.

++ How did Men of Westenesse songs came to life? Who wrote the songs? What was the process behind them?

The songwriting duties were mine.  Before Doug joined, I would write all the songs, record a demo of them on my 4 track and then arrogantly proceed to tell everybody what I wanted to hear.  I would write the bass line and teach it to Sean.  When Doug joined, he generally wrote his own guitar parts but the songs were always mine.  They were always about something, never random or made up.  Doug and I got to a point where at times he could be very negative about parts of songs so I invented a rule that if you didnt like a part, you couldnt slag it off unless you had written a better part.  I think we disagreed on a lot of things creatively and this was fundamental in the band splitting up.

++ You were in Bakers Sons and My Life Story. Honestly, never heard about these bands before. Can you tell me a bit about them? Did you release anything with these bands? What about Seamus ex band, Jump Boys?

The Bakers Sons did one demo tape and it had three songs on it.  I used to love that band and our attitude but it was a bright short flame. My Life Story are apparently still touring in Europe etc. Quite big apparently.
The Jump Boys were like the Bakers Sons but more influenced by the Undertones.

++ I read that the main influences for you were The Weather Prophets, Lloyd Cole, Felt and especially The Jam. Did you like any bands from those late 80s? the c86 guitar pop bands?

The C86 bands?  I loved them.  I loved anything with clean and really jangly guitars.  I loved and still love any one who can use a D chord and make it really ring.  You cant beat a Rickenbacker or Telecaster for that sound.

I still buy original indie records when I can find them.  The Shop Assistants, Jesse Gaaron and the Desperadoes, The Loft, Orange Juice (a little earlier than 86), later on I loved the first Trashcan Sinatras album.  The Feelies were a great band.  The Lemonheads – again, later but still great.  World Party for the political bit.  Never got too much into the Waterboys – bit too diddlee dee for me.

++ Did you feel part of a scene at all? Were you involved in the fanzine culture?

I dont think we ever felt part of a scene.  We were very insulated and into what we were doing never really lifting our heads to get involved in cliques.  They are, from experience, a very dangerous animal and one that I wanted to steer well clear of.  Having said that, there were some fantastic bands in Southend at the time.  The Windmills were probably the best of them.  Tortoise Shout were a great band and there was, originally an all girl band, Wednesday’s Child who at one point had interest from Steve Lamacq but I think it was too overblown.

++ Were you more of a recording band or did you gig often?

We were much more of a gigging band.  I used to love playing live but we went through a phase where I was writing quiet songs – some of my favourites actually – and you could hear people in the audience talking.  It used to really piss me off.

++ Looking back in time, what is that that you miss the most of being part of Men of Westenesse?

What do I miss most?  Being a part of something that I made, that I trusted and that I had full belief in. That’s prbably another reason why we didnt get anywhere, because it didnt matter if no one else like it, I did and that was all that mattered.  I had the conviction of Morrissey/Marr without the talent.  I blame them personally – bad role models.I

++ Why and when did the band call it a day?

I think the band called it a day because I got tired of the attitude of the others and they got tired of me.  It’s a shame but then it was all quite amicable.  Sean said, I’m fed up with this, I’m leaving the band and I said, ‘Yeah, me too’ and that was it.  Must have been around 1993-4 I think.

++ Anything you’d like to tell to the guitar pop fans of the world?

Guitar pop fans of the world?  Yes I’d like to tell them something.
It’s not worth it unless there’s been some cost to the person writing the song.  A well played D chord is as close as you’ll get to heaven on earth and anyone who says they’re in an indie band now is mistaken.  Keep enjoying real music made by real people.  What’s the line?  ‘All I’ve got is this red guitar, three chords and the truth.’

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Listen
Men of Westenesse – The Coldest Water

Thanks to Stewart Tudor-Jackman for the interview!

++ Who were The Kensingtons? How did it start? Why did you choose that name?

It started with me at university in the late 80s, just sat in the bedroom writing and recording stuff onto a 4 track in the corner of the room. I was in another band at the time, which I loved, but which wasn’t really suited to some of the songs I was writing. The name came from a great pop song called ‘the kid from Kensington’ by Dogs D’Amour. When I left university and went back home to Somerset I got together with Andy Howlett, who I’d recently met, and then we were off. For a while we also had Adam Discombe (who I went to school with) on guitar. All 3 of us are on the hope Corner lane ep, and pretty much everything else was recorded with just me at home.

++ What inspired The Kensingtons to make music? Were you a Sarah fan? What about trains? Did you travel a lot on them?

The main inspiration for me was simply the fact that I enjoyed my life so much – that’s what made me write songs. Despite the fact that I had no money whatsoever, I was having an absolute ball with my chums. My memory is that the sun was out all the time, I had time to play music, I sold music for a living, and I had a fabulous haircut. Perfect.

I was a Sarah fan until number 60 something, when I thought they got a bit bland to be honest. My favourites were the Sea Urchins, the Hit Parade, and Action Painting.

Trains were just a functional part of my life, getting me from home to either Bristol (for gigs) or back to Leicester (for uni) or to London (to see my now wife). Londoners tend to get more emotional about trains than the rest of us in England. Must be an Underground thing.

++ Were you in any bands before or after The Kensingtons?

Prior to the Kensingtons I was in a few bands that did nothing much. During and after the Kensingtons I was also in Satchel and Cellophane. Satchel (which was me and Andrew Anorak) appeared on a fair few compilation tapes in the early 90s, despite the fact that we only ever recorded 4 songs in one afternoon. And Cellophane appeared on a pillar Box Red single along with southville and a few others. It was called ‘Tales from the pillarbox’.

++ How did the PillarBox Red flexi ‘Searching for the blake hall’ happen?

I’d already been on the Cellophane joint single, and Andrew at Pillar Box had also heard some of my own Kensingtons material. I remember that he phoned me and said ‘’We need a song about trains, and we need it in a couple of weeks…’’. So that original version of ‘intercity Baby’  then got written and recorded in my bedroom within 2 hours. Amazing what you can do under pressure, and with a bottle of cider.

++ Why did it take 3 years for the next record? What were you doing during this time?

The songs for ‘hope corner lane’ were actually recorded in 1993, but the record didn’t come out till early 1995. So the delay was more to do with the record company rather than us. By the time it came out, Andy and I had already parted ways. Basically between 1991 and early 1994 we were writing and playing pretty much most of the time.

++ Hope Corner Lane was released on a German label in 1995. How did Jorg from Meller Welle come to you? How come you ended up on a non British label?

I think Jorg heard us on a compilation tape, and then he ended up putting some of our songs on one of his compilations. I think they went down fairly well, which resulted in the record. I’d have loved to have released more stuff on British labels, but most of our fans seemed to be overseas for some reason.

++ What do you remember of these recording sessions? How did you decide which 4 to put on the vinyl?

We actually recorded them in 1993 at a friend’s studio in Somerset. Because we pre-programmed most of it on a sequencer, we were able to record 7 songs in one day, which is unheard of. To be honest, the 4 that got chosen were the only 4 that came out ok as we did it so quickly. We had a manager by that time too, who was already trying to rip us off, and we weren’t in a great mood on the day because of him being an arse. So at the end of the recording session we fired him.

++ The songs are upbeat, but the lyrics are quite sad, mostly about missing a girl. Were Surbiton girl and Intercity Baby real?

Surbiton girl was real. She used to write to me twice a week once she’d bought one of our tapes, which was of course extremely flattering, but a bit weird. And me being an idiot, I wrote ‘Surbiton Girl’ and sent it to her. That just made her even more of a nutter, rather predictably, so I stopped keeping in touch. I love the song, but I really didn’t handle the attention very well.

Intercity Baby is about the trip from Taunton, where I grew up, to Leicester, where I went to uni. It’s the train journey I knew best.  Although a lot of the songs are quite sad, I really don’t think of myself a sad person. Quite the opposite in fact. I just think sad lyrics are a bit easier to write than happy ones.

++ Why didn’t the Pillar Box split LP with Southville happen?

I don’t know. I remember getting really excited when it was talked about, but I think money was the issue with the label.

++ Why didn’t you release more records? What about demo tapes? Did you record some?

We were happy just doing our thing locally, and really got quite surprised by the attention we had for a while. We never chased anything, the opportunities just ended up at our feet every now and again. We had a number of labels tell us ‘’you’ll be on the next record’’ but they all seemed to run out of money at the wrong time…

I ended recording around 50 songs (mostly at home), and still do so now.

++ Did the Kensingtons gig a lot? Any particular ones you remember? What was your favourite venue?

We probably played once a month or so in the early 90s. My favourite place was a pub in Taunton where we played regularly – we were well known in the pub, it got packed, and we got looked after from the fancy restaurant upstairs. Like all gigs we did, it was very small, but I always used to really enjoy it there. Once I’d decided to move away from Somerset, we held our ‘farewell’ gig there, and that was the one I have the fondest memories of.  A great night.

I also remember our first home-town gig, which was in a very dodgy boozer with a couple of other bands. By that stage Andy and I only had 5 songs, and we hadn’t had time to pre-program any of the drums. So we got a friend of ours who knew nothing about music, and who knew none of our songs, to stand at the back of the stage  next to the drum machine. It only had one drum pattern on it, which therefore became the backing to all 5 songs…and it was started and stopped by me nodding to our mate at the back, who then pressed ‘start’ and ‘stop’. I bet Coldplay don’t do that.

++ How was the relationship between the Kensingtons and fanzine culture? Do you remember being written about in any of them at the time?

We were in them a fair bit. I’ve still got the Waaah! one we were in, plus another few like Cherry Fizz Pop and Scholarship is the enemy of Romance. I loved them, because they are the perfect DIY music tool. I love the fact that noone cared if you sounded shit – as long as you had some great songs.

I used to love the excitement of sending off for a fanzine, and then it arriving with 20 flyers in the envelope for other fanzines and tapes. A great way of getting to hear new stuff and meet lots of fabulous people.

++ Indiepop being underground at the time – did that affect the band?

I liked the fact that indiiepop was a counter culture, and had that perfect bedroom pop ethic. I don’t think if affected us directly though, as we were into a lot of other stuff at the time too like the Wedding Present, Weather Prophets, Mary Chain, MBV and so on.

++ Do you still listen to indiepop?

I still listen to the stuff from the 80s and 90s a lot, but not so much the newer stuff. I found that a lot of the spark had gone from a lot of it, and it became style over substance. Sarah went horribly downhill, the Fat Tulips split up – it was the end of an era.

++ When and why did you call it a day?

I never have called it a day really. I’ve just been a little slow for 13 years. I moved away from Taunton in 1994, thinking that I should probably go and earn a proper living, which I’m still trying to do.  These days I’m in Australia, and still looking for someone else to make music with. The reason it worked with Andy was that we were chums first, and then started playing music together. Over the last few years I’ve started getting stuff together with people, but I’ve just not really clicked with anyone else. I’ve still being recording stuff over the years, but when I do it on my own I’m really slow, and probably need someone like Andy to kick me up the arse.

One thing I have been doing over the last couple of years is trying to record some decent versions of the old Kensington’s material that was only ever recorded onto 4-track tape. Eventually I’ll end up with all the old songs recorded, plus a number of newer ones from the last 10 years.

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Listen

The Kensingtons – Intercity Baby ‘94

Thanks to Andrew Everett for the interview!

++ ” Described by those in the know as a ‘vanity project that got out of control” what do you mean by that?

Basically I had the money to make some records but not the fan base to justify making them.

++ How did the band start? How did you all meet? What was the music direction you wanted to follow with The Blue Smarties? Why did you decided to make pop music?

The band started in early 1990 in Leicester when Gary and I started jamming on our guitars, I knew Andy who was on the same course as me and played bass and we did our first 3 song gig in Feb, Karen joined some months later after we had done about 10 gigs, she knew Gary, initially she was on flute until it turned out she could sing when she started singing along to ‘Nothing Compares 2U’ at her first practice. We never had a drummer, cause we didn’t know any, so we used a drum machine that was available on the course Andy and I were doing and we used to mix the drums onto a cassette tape with some samples between the drum tracks and plug that into the PA using Gary’s cassette deck and play along to it. We didn’t worry about the type of music etc, just played whatever people wrote.

++ What were the influences of the band?

I guess Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine were an influence as they used a taped backing and I saw them live and saw how it could work but otherwise we all liked different things.

++ Why having always people helping with keyboards, kazoos and other instruments, you always had a drum machine and not a drummer? Was that on purpose?

As things developed and we all ended up living in different places, it was easier not to have a drummer as it was one less thing to worry about. If you wrote the song, you sorted out the drums!

++ Your relationship with Cordelia Records main man Alan Jenkins comes a long way. He had produced and recorded both albums. How did this relationship start and how big was his influence? Why didn’t you end up releasing on his label?

We met Alan and Ruth when Ruth’s Refrigerator came to watch one of our gigs. Gary already knew Alan and so we all got chatting. Alan was a big influence in terms of the fact he released his own records and was willing to help us with recording stuff and also that he was positive about our music. We didn’t release anything on his label because we had no fans so no one was going to buy our CD so I paid for it to happen, hence the ‘vanity project’ tag.

++ The other important label and person in Leicester was Rutland Records and it’s Ruth Miller. What did having this people around you mean? This is a scene that has been overlooked by many popkids, but bands like Po!, Ruth’s Refrigerator, The Originals and The Ammonites are all GREAT! Did you feel part of a scene?

Not at all.

++ I don’t have any clue about the “File Under Spoon” tape. Can you tell me a bit about it? Was it the first release?

It was our first release and was on Rutland on cassette. It was a collection of demos we recorded in 1990 and 91, basically it’s the ‘Teeth Like Sheep’ tracks.

++ Were you involved in other bands prior or after The Blue Smarties?

Sort of before but nothing much was ever recorded and after the BS I started The Shandy Express. Gary has played in PO! The Freed Unit and Thurston Lava Tube.

++ The Blue Smarties came to life in 1990 but it wasn’t till 1994 that you had your first proper release, the album Teeth Like Sheep. Why did it take you too long? What were you doing during those years?

From August 1990 I was working in London in retail, Gary was working in Leicester, Karen was working in Scotland and later Andy was working in Bristol. We weren’t really functioning as a band by the time we recorded the album but I had the money to do the album and was keen and the others were up for it too. We had the demos as templates so it wasn’t too tricky to do.

++ This first album was released on Grape Star Records. This is the only release I know on this label. Did they do anything else? Who were they?

It was a label I created named after a type of lipstick. ‘Teeth Like Sheep’ never had any distribution although I did sell a few copies by putting an ad in Select magazine and selling it for £2.00

++ Teeth Like Sheep is such a fun record, I bet that same enthusiasm happened at gigs! What was the usual Blue Smarties fare for a gig? How long would your sets last? Any particular gigs you remember?

We were pretty good live and played over 20 gigs altogether including Leicester, Hereford and three times in Edinburgh once supporting Swervedriver. We used to throw smarties at the crowd till they started throwing them back! My personal favourite gig was when we played a pub called the Royal Mail in Leicester not long before I went to work in London, a good crowd showed up and I met Alan Jenkins that night as well.

++ The band started being a four piece, with Andy, Gary, Karen and you. For the second album Fruit Tree Feeling it was only Karen and you. There was a seven year gap between both albums as well. What happened in between?

Basically the band split up in about 1994, though I continued to do some recording with Alan and then in 1999 I decided it would be fun to record a vinyl single and the others were up for it. Karen was keen to do her Ian Beale song which we had demoed in 1994, see Myspace page to hear it, so that was included, Steve Lamacq like it, so we did another vinyl ep but by this time Andy went off to work in Australia for a while, so missed that. With the actual album it was basically down to Karen and I and some people who helped us out and many thanks to them.

++ Fruit Tree Feeling is a true gem! The song “I Feel Like Ian Beale” was praised by Steve Lamacq. Was that the biggest highlight of The Blue Smarties?

Not for me as I didn’t write it or even play on it and was jealous at its success although it was very exciting hearing it on the radio. The highlight for me was completing the end section of a song called ‘Rewire’ and hearing it for the first time and also some very nice fan letters I got from someone called Clare – thanks again.

++ There were two singles, plus the Fruit Tree Feeling album, on Sorted Records. Also there was a compilation appearance. Is that the full discography? Why did you change labels? Who were Sorted Records?

Sorted records still exist and are a Leicester label. They had a distribution deal and I was keen our music had distribution so we ended up funding the releases but they came out on Sorted so they got distributed. I was very grateful to them and liked this arrangement as I still own the copyright to my songs and recordings.

As far as I remember the BS are on:

• Rutland Records – A compilation tape (a couple of tunes from ‘File Under spoon’
• Rutland Records – ‘File Under Spoon’ A collection of demo
• Grape Star Records ‘Teeth Like Sheep’ 16 track CD album released in 199
• Sorted Record ‘A chimp can dream’ 4 track EP 199
• Sorted Records ‘Nodding Dogs’ 4 track EP 200
• Sorted records ‘’Left hand side of Egypt’ 3 track vinyl compliation EP (BS has one track on it
• Sorted records ‘Fruit Tree Feeling’ 13 track CD album 200
• Sorted Records ‘Havock Junction’ Compilation CD (BS has one track on it) 2001

++ Why did you stop making music as The Blue Smarties? Btw, why did you call the band like that? I just read that the blue smarties have just being reintroduced again last February. Did you miss them?

Communication between Karen and I was never great and eventually dwindled away. I haven’t spoken to her for at least four years and I have no idea what she is up to but with the BS you can never say its over……………….!! We were originally called The Blue Smartie Syndrome in reference to the strange additives they used to put in the blue ones.

++ “Only Smarties have the answer”, so, what’s the answer Andrew?

Spoon-Spurt-Dump.

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Listen
The Blue Smarties – I Feel Like Ian Beale

Thanks to Perry Groove for the interview!

++ I’ve googled The Grooveyard and there are almost no results! So I think I should ask the basics, where and when did the band formed? who were The Grooveyard and how did you meet? And why start a band?

First of all i should say that i wasn’t in the band at the beginning or at the end but was in it during the middle section of 2 years and play on all the recordings.

The Grooveyard supported a band i was in at the Clarendon in Hammersmith. in 1986. We had some mutual friends. A few weeks later they asked me to join as drummer which i did as i liked them personally and their music. The gigs could be chaotic but there was loads of energy and improvising. Steve Bennett was on vocals; Justin Spear on bass, guitar and vocals; Mark on guitar and bass; Simon on flute and guitar, Perry Groove on drums. Justin, Mark and Simon would all swap instruments all the time. They were very good musically and all had great characters. We were based in Kinston, we would rehearse in Justin’s attic (Justin’s dad was in the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah band) There was also a big Brighton connection as Steve and Justin went to college there.

++ Where does the name The Grooveyard comes from?

Grooveyard was just a pun on graveyard.

++ You released a collector item, At Home with the Grooveyard. I guess at the time it wasn’t. How do you feel that the record is sought after and people paying lots of money for it on ebay? How many copies of that 12″ were made?

I had no idea that there was any interest in the band and any people wanted the record ‘At Home’. I have no idea how many copies of “At Home” were pressed. I guess about 1000

++ You released a flexi on the same label where you included the song Summer which is the only one I have ever heard. And I think it’s great! Which bands influenced you at the time? Any favourite ones that you played with at gigs at the time?

All the band were big music fans with a massive range of interests and styles between us all the band though loved Love, The Byrds, West Coast Pop Experimental Band, REM and The Smiths. Other faves at the time were The Chills and McCarthy.

I loved playing live with the band, very entertaining and musical. I was a few years older than them so a sort of father. Gigs that stand out in 1987 are supporting The Wedding Present at Brighton Pavilion (recorded for BBC Sussex). Playing at a sort of happening at the Kew Steam Museum (we just hired it and organised it), hundreds of people, loads of bands and light shows, etc. And supporting The Chills in Brighton.

Oddest gig was supporting Mud in Farnham.

++ Why didn’t you release more records? Do you have any unreleased songs?

We only went into the studio twice in Brixton. We did 3 songs: Summer (ended up on flexi), Peter and Whiskey Whirlpool. Then in Brighton we did the “At Home”. Very odd atmosphere as on way down to record it, Steve and Justin had a horriffic car crash, I think someone was killed, they were really shaken up. We recorded it basically live except for vocals) and everybody kept making mistakes on the first one we did (he said) we all got fed up and it got quicker and quicker! By the time we came to Whiskey whirlpool, we just played it once and that was it.

I have tapes of rehearsals and live gigs but buried away.

++ What happened to the band members after The Grooveyard was over? Were you at all involved in other guitar pop bands before or after?

I have no idea of what the others are doing now. Mark mainly wanted to split the band and it happened in 1988. They reformed with a friend Greavsie on drums a few months later. Then shortly later Mark left and they stayed as fourpiece after that. Rat Scabies managed them for a while and they did record a few demoes including “Speedball”. While they were in Grooveyard, Justin and Greavies were also in a Brighton band ‘Blow up’, they recorded an LP for Creation. I have only been in touch with Justin in the last few years. He does some djing and recently was on Radio London filling in for Danny Baker with Martin Freeman.

I played in loads of bands before and after Grooveyard, most lost in time. Before The Grooveyard I was on The Oddhits and Nantuck Five. And after on Perry Combo, Maybellenes (singer was Wendy may from Boothill Foot-Tappers).

++ What does indiepop mean to you? Do you follow the scene today?

I still love indie-pop but the problem with being my age,most of it sounds generic. It’s hard to have an original sound. That’s why I like Hard-Fi and The Killers.

++ Thanks so much! would you like to add anything else?

You should get in touch with Justin Spear (I most surely will!), he was Mr Grooveyard. Really, he was the bus driver, I was just a passenger and back seat driver for some of the journey.

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Listen
The Grooveyard -Summer

Thanks to Steve King for the interview!

++ You only released the “That’s Where Caroline Lives” single. With such a strong debut, why didn’t The Candy Darlings release any more songs?

– Well basically, Little Stu, who ran Teatime Records (and was the singer in Mousefolk) offered to release a single, which he did and then didn’t offer to do another one – and we weren’t exactly inundated with other offers. Essentially, being in a band was fun for us and I don’t think we ever viewed it as having any particluar longevity but we really wanted to make a record – mainly just to have something tangible to prove we had actually existed. I remember just staring at the sleeve (we were adamant with Stu that we wanted a proper sleeve rather than a plastic bag) – amazed that we’d actually made this thing. And when it got reviewed in the NME (they thought it was rubbish – particlulary my singing) that was all we were really after. After that, we didn’t really have the impetus to chase after a follow-up, though if anyone had offered, I’m sure we’d have taken them up on it.

++ It also strikes me that the band formed in 1985 and the debut didn’t come out till 1990. Why was that? What happened in between those years?

To be honest, it took us five years to achieve the required basic level of competence on our chosen instruments. In between, we played the odd gig, recorded 4 track demo tapes (largely for our own amusement) and made each other laugh.

++ How did the band start? I read that there were 4 Candy Darlings in the beginning.

We were friends at the same school (a posh one in Bristol) who all liked the same sort of music. If I may be permitted a digression here, I still remember my first interaction with Dom. In my first year at school, I loved Adam and the Ants and, in the custom of the day, had drawn a Warrior Ant logo on my school folder. This attracted Dom’s attention and (much to his evident delight) afforded him the opportunity to belittle the fact that I was unaware that the Ants had actually released another album before Kings of the Wild Frontier. This competitive musical one-upmanship did, however, set the tone for our entire 25 (and counting) year realtionship.

Anyway, the 4 of us (including another friend, Jerry) just decided we’d form a band and sort of fell into roles by default. Dom actually had a guitar on which he has mastered at least 4 chords – so he was the guitarist. Chris also had a guitar, on which he hadn’t mastered any chords – so he played the fattest string as a bass. I’m not sure how Jerry ended up being the drummer as I think we clubbed together for a second-hand snare but he could make a reasonable fist of keeping time. I had nothing and I couldn’t really sing but I was their mate so I was in. In the beginning, Dom and I both “sang” but I was a bit of a spare part really. In fact, in the middle of the first recording we made of ourselves, we captured Dom’s mum asking the tricky question, “so what do you do Steve?”. Anyway, we were a ‘band’ and that’s all we cared about. We lost Jerry when we all left school. Dom, Chris and I all kept in contact but, for some reason, Jerry didn’t. So we pooled our grant cheques and bought a drum machine.

++ Where does the name Candy Darlings come from?

We loved the Velvet Underground and extensive background reading lead us to Candy Darling. It also had the word ‘Candy’ in it, which fitted nicely with the JAMC orthodoxy of the mid-eighties.

++ During those years Bristol had become home of Sarah. How important was the influence of the label on the city scene? Was it inspiring at all for you?

We all bought the early records on Sarah but a greater influence on what actually went on in Bristol was probably Subway. Martin Whitehead and Rocker were much more active in terms of organising things and putting bands on. In the end, records are great but actually having somewhere to go, drink and watch bands play was much more fun than sitting at home and playing 7″s. The first Brighter single was the end of religiously buying Sarah records for me. I remember playing it and just thinking that they were a parody of a generic Sarah band – so that was it, apart from Orchids records (because the Orchids were great).

++ Did you have any favourite venue in town?

The Tropic Club. It was a fantastic place, legendary on the Bristol indie scene. we had many great nights drinking, dancing and (in Dom’s case at least) puking in there. Also the place where we played our first real gig – supporting the Fizzbombs.

++ Did you play many gigs? Which bands were your favourites that you played with?

Given that we weren’t exactly proficient musicians (and that we had to re-load the drum machine by cassette after every 4 songs) playing live was something of a fraught affair and we rarely ventured beyond the Bristol borders (and our sets never lasted more than 8 songs). Our one ‘tour’ consisted of two consecutive nights supporting Mousefolk in Nottingham and Goole. Nottingham was kinda OK, but Chris wanted to get back to Reading University the next day to study for an exam so wasn’t drinking, whilst Dom and I were, which made our performance somewhat disjointed (and probably explains why Chris got a good degree and is now Head of Money at a major high street bank and Dom and I didn’t and aren’t). Whilst Chris headed back down the motorway to further his academic career, Dom, myself and all of Mousefolk stayed at the drummer (I think) out of the Fat Tulips’ parents’ house – where I rather let myself down by making some lewd remarks about sex involving the wearing of a Mousefolk t-shirt to the drummer’s girlfriend who may, or may not, also have been in the Fat Tulips but, in any event, was wearing a Mousefolk t-shirt. The next day we headed up to Goole, Dom and I showing Mousefolk’s bass player Phil the basslines to a handful of our songs in the back of the Transit van we were all travelling in. I believe that our performances that night constituted the first (and probably the last) indie-pop gig staged at the Violent Bikers Arms in Goole. Sparsely furnished and brightly lit, it didn’t give off the warmest of vibes nor did our first interaction with the propriator – “how long do you play for?” he demanded. “What’s normal?” we queried. “Most bands hold down about 2 hours” he informed us. “Oh dear”, we thought. In front of the small, yet menacing collection of bikers and psychotic locals that constitued our audience that night, calling ourselves the Candy Darlings suddenly felt ineffably twee, and asking for a punch in the face, so we announced ourselves as “Axe of Fury”, played the 4 songs we’d taught Phil and an endurance testing 10 minute version of Pablo Picasso and ran for the door.

++ You were rejected by Sarah for being too challenging and avant-garde. That’s unbelievable!! I think your music would have perfectly fitted in their catalog. How did this happen? Maybe you didn’t send Caroline to them?

Unfortunately, we did send Caroline to them. In fact we sent them pretty much everything we recorded and our rejection by Sarah was the most painful chapter in the Candy Darlings story. Matt and Clare had always been gently encouraging, always writing back in response to our tapes (thinking about it now, this must have been such a pain for them as every pointless little indie band in the country – and I include ourselves in this – must’ve been raining tapes in on them) saying mildly positive things but without actually saying “and we’d like you to release a record on our prestigious label, please”. We held a band meeting wherein it was decided that we would (I will swear to this day that I was against it but was out-voted) write and ask them straight if they would, please, put out a Candy Darlings single. No, it turned out, they wouldn’t. In the end, they didn’t actually think we were that good.

++ Your only single came out on a Bristol label, Teatime Records, home of great acts like Mousefolk and The Driscolls. How did your songs end up being released by them? How many records were pressed? Where was it recorded? The quality is much better than the other songs I’ve heard from you (especially the two other ones that were released on tape compilations).

Fortunately little Stu wanted to branch out from just releasing Mousefolk records and offered to release one of ours. We recorded it at a proper studio in 2 days – the first time we’d ever been in one and we didn’t really know what we were doing or how to ask for the sounds we wanted. We all thought the songs sounded OK but Chris’ bass got completely lost in the mix. 1000 were pressed and I think most of them sold (though at least a few were made into handy ash-trays). Everything else we recorded was for our own amusement on a variety of cheap 4-track cassette machines.

Interesting fact: my brother James was briefly a member of the Driscolls as second guitarist. See him in action on You Tube (search “Driscolls Brittle Beautiful”) – he’s the one with the floppy fringe.

++ Who is the girl doing backing vocals on Caroline? Who wrote the songs usually in the Candy Darlings? I really enjoy the lyrics, and the guitars on the single are precious!

The girl doing the backing vocals on Caroline is, actually, Caroline – who was Chris’ girlfriend at the time. The initial basis of a song was usually written by either Dom or I and then we worked it up into something passable between the 3 of us. I think I may have mean-spiritedly wanted “Caroline” credited to just me on the record but conceded to a more democratic “King, Hall, Strange”. I don’t think Coldplay are planning a cover version so we won’t have to worry about arguing over royalties. Actually, I wanted ‘Bright New Morning’ to be the a-side but, again, I got out-voted (looking back, I seemed to get out-voted a lot).

++ What were you doing back then? were you pop fans back then? Did you follow any bands? maybe wrote a zine? going to university?

We were doing school and university. We liked a lot of bands but I recall that, for some reason, we all had a particular fondness for the Three Johns.

++ The last years of the Candy Darlings see the band changing their musical direction towards indie-dance. Why was the main reason for that? Did you all feel comfortable making that music?

This was all Dom’s idea (I was probaly out-voted again somewhere along the line). It was decided that we needed a new singer (don’t think I was even permitted a vote on that one) and that we needed to get hip to that funky drummer back beat. We quite enjoyed doing it but when Dom left to move to London, Chris and I formed a new line-up and dropped the ‘dance element’ like a sack of sh!t.

++ On Last.fm there are many unreleased songs, many of them great jangle tracks. Will you ever release them? A retrospective album is due!

I don’t think the world is clamouring for a Candy Darlings retrospective. No-one’s ever shown any interest in doing one and, as you point out, most of the recordings (other than the single) are really low-fi as they were recorded on cassette.

++ How do you see the indiepop scene today? Any big differences to the one of the late 80s? Any similarities?

To be honest, I don’t think any of us are really aware of that scene these days. I go to the very occasional gig when I’m up in London but we’ve all got families these days and that’s where all the time goes. So I can’t really comment on any differences but I do know that the scene in the late eighties was loads of fun and that the 3 of us had such a laugh being in the Candy Darlings. That’s really my over-riding memory of being in the band – p!ssing myself laughing with my two best mates.

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Listen
Candy Darlings – That’s Where Caroline Lives

Thanks to Torquil MacLeod for the interview!

++ On Twee.net it lists that you released a 7″ called Arse Parsley Correcto. It even says Stephen Pastel appears on the B side! I’ve never heard of it or even come across with it. In any other Reserve discography it doesn’t appear. Does this really exist?

Mmm, yes, Arse Parsley Correcto.   What can I say?  It may exist, in much the same way as Bigfoot may exist.  Alternatively, it may have its roots in a late-night visit to an internet cafe after one cocktail too many in a small mountain town in Panama in 2000.  I’m afraid that I couldn’t possibly say.

++ How did the band meet up? As far as I know Reserve was mainly a solo project when it started, right?

Well I started writing songs in that sort of style, with the idea of putting a band together, in 1985.  I’d been playing in other bands dating back to 1979, but this was my first stab at being principal songwriter and singer.  Johnny Johnson was looking for musicians at the same time to form what would end up being the Siddeleys – I was hanging out with her and helping get her songs down on tape – so I used the same methods to get people for my band: ads in the Rough Trade shop in Notting Hill and approaching people who looked right at gigs.  So Reserve was never meant to be a solo project, although obviously a lot of it involved me sitting at home writing and recording songs.  The first couple of line-ups I assembled were pretty hopeless, but then I bumped into Ian Gregg at a Microdisney gig and Simon Armstrong at a 1000 Violins gig and recruited them on guitar and bass respectively.  I also stumbled across Phil Powell somewhere and persuaded him to hit a couple of drums.  So that was the first line-up to perform in public.

++ The first show was supporting The Wishing Stones in 1986. What memories bring that gig to you?

That was in a room above a pub in King’s Cross in London.  I think it was in September.  I remember it as being a bit of a shambles, but a lot of the bands around then were a bit of a shambles – more to do with a lack of talent than a deliberate aesthetic.  I was just singing at this stage, not playing guitar as well, and I remember feeling rather naked without a guitar to hide behind.  The audience seemed quite enthusiastic, but then most of them were our friends.  A tape did exist but its whereabouts now is anybody’s guess.

++ After that gig two of the members left Reserve to form The James Dean Driving Experience. Why did this happen? Was it a hard decision to keep playing under the name Reserve?

Well, that’s not quite how it happened.  I think that line-up played another couple of gigs before Ian announced that he was leaving to form the James Dean Driving Experience.  This was about two days before we were due to go into the studio to record a demo.  I was a bit pissed off to be honest, but mainly because Ian had come up with a better name for his band than I had for mine.  So Simon, Phil and I went off to the studio and I played guitar instead of Ian.  Phil left to join Ian in the JDDE after I asked him if he could learn to play drums properly.  So Simon brought his multi-talented Bob bandmate Richard Blackborow in to play drums (properly) and that line-up lasted for nearly a year.  As for keeping the name Reserve, it was still me singing my songs, so as far as I was concerned it was still Reserve.  Simon and Richard had their own band which was, naturally, their first priority, but it was great having them along for the ride.

++ Oh yeah, why did you call the band “Reserve”?

Thinking up band names can be such a pain.  I knew I didn’t want a name that began with ‘The’.  At one point Captain Lust & The Pirate Women was a possibility – I saw that outside a porno cinema at Piccadilly Circus.  But it didn’t seem quite right for the indie ’scene’.  I’m not sure where Reserve came from – I think I quite liked the ambiguity of ‘reserve’ as in holding something back and ‘reserve’ as in a place where something precious or rare is kept.  To be honest I think it’s a bit of a naff name.  Oh well.

++ Back to 1987, the band now counts with Richard from Bob and the flexi “The Sun Slid Down Behind the Tower” is released! That’s a fantastic song Torquil! And I have to say that this is my favourite version of it. Even more than the polished version on the 12″. How did you come up with such a good tune, full of ramshackling guitars and and that solo (it’s glorious! isn’t it?)!!!? Is it the Big Ben tower by the way?

Wow!  Thanks for your enthusiasm – it’s much appreciated.  The version on the flexi is from a session recorded at the Bob studio out in the Somerset countryside in April 1987, which is probably my favourite of the five Reserve sessions that exist.  We recorded seven songs – Simon on bass and vocals, Richard on drums and vocals and me on guitar and vocals.  The arrangement of ‘The Sun Slid Down Behind The Tower’ is pretty much identical to the home demo which I’d recorded either late ‘86 or early ‘87, including the guitar solo which I wanted to have that West Coast, Byrds sort of feel.  As regards how I came up with it, it’s just that thing of messing around with a guitar at home, coming up with some chords that sound good, humming a tune over the top and suddenly there’s the song.  You record it, listen to it and you’re not quite sure where it all came from.  I’m singing about the tower of All Saints Church in Notting Hill – I spent several afternoons sitting on a nearby roof in the summer of 1984 in a ‘cheap wine and lipstick haze’.

++ Where you a fan of the Sha La La label before releasing the flexi? How did this release happen? What did Matt told to you?

To be honest I’d never heard of Sha La La before the flexi came out.  I was never much of a fan of flexis – they seemed so disposable and always sounded crap.  Having said that, it was obviously great to have something released and we even got a very enthusiastic review in a magazine called Record Mirror  with a picture and everything, just below a piece about the first single by a band called The Stone Roses.  I wonder what happened to them.  I never had any contact with Matt, all the business was conducted by the mighty David Payne of Troutfishing In Leytonstone fame.  From what I gather, Matt didn’t like The Siddeleys or Reserve and was very reluctant to release the flexi in the first place which is why there were only 1000 pressed compared to 2000 for all the other Sha La La releases.  Which is great because it means it’s rarer and worth more than any of the others.  Thanks Matt.

++ This flexi was released along the “Troutfishing in Leytonstone” fanzine. How involved were you in the fanzine culture?

I loved fanzines.  Troutfishing In Leytonstone was a particularly fine one, but I also have fond memories of Rumbledethump which was written by Sharon from the Hobgoblins and The Legend’s fanzine (can’t remember what it was called).  There was something genuinely exciting about these little bits of paper which were soaked with love and enthusiasm.  I have to confess that I myself produced a fanzine with Johnny Johnson.  It was called Blah de Blah and was absolute rubbish.  There wasn’t a single interview in it, just blasts of ill-informed opinion, a few pictures stolen from kids’ magazines and a very poor short story (mine).  In its favour, it was printed in three colours – white, red and green – which was probably the best thing about it.  It was the result of a Faustian pact with the government – we got paid for a year to produce the shoddiest fanzine I’ve ever seen.  I blame Thatcher.

++ Did it ever go through your mind that 20 years from then, all this music will be almost legendary? Did you feel there was a scene happening at the time?

Yes, there was a real sense of scene.  Certainly in London anyway.  I was going to about three gigs a week and seeing the same people there – it was great.  Much fun was had.  Having said that, I think some people were getting a bit too overexcited about the importance of what was happening and have subsequently mythologised it to a faintly ridiculous degree.  At the time there was this whole ‘once every decade’ notion – in 1957 rock and roll had exploded, 1967 was the summer of love, 1977 saw punk’s bleak winter…  So there was this bunch of badly dressed kids who couldn’t dance and thought that Morrissey was some kind of Messiah who decided that a handful of bands who couldn’t play very well and no one had heard of were the equivalent in 1987.  Yes, it was a breakthrough year, but in house music, not British indiepop.

++ Two Hearts Beat in a Hole. Your 12″ on Sombrero, that sells for very high prices on eBay! Was this single the biggest highlight of Reserve? Any anecdotes while recording this record?

It’s crazy isn’t it?  People are paying $100+ for this little piece of vinyl.  There are 2000 of them out there so if you want one you can probably get one.  I lost mine so I had to steal back the one I’d given to my mum.  Obviously it was absolutely thrilling to finally have a proper record released.  I would wander down to the Virgin Megastore in London’s Oxford Street and gaze with wonder at the Reserve section, nestling between REO Speedwagon and Revolting Cocks.  What more could a boy want?  As for the record itself – hmmmmmm.  As I said earlier, the best stuff we ever recorded was in the beautiful surroundings of Richard Blackborow’s 8 track studio in the picturesque village of Banwell in the weird and wonderful county of Somerset.  Going into a 16 track studio situated in an industrial estate in west London was a bit of a different matter.  By this time the line-up of the band had changed completely – me: guitar and vocals, Jason Ellis: bass and vocals, Michael Harris: guitar and vocals, Jonathan Sim: drums.  Simon and Richard had made it clear that, much as they enjoyed playing music with me, they really had to concentrate all their energies on Bob.  To their great credit they carried on playing in Reserve until I’d found replacements.  Jonathan came in first towards the end of 1987.  At this stage David Payne had temporarily joined the band, playing a rather handsome Hohner semi-acoustic.  It was thanks to Alan Kingdom from the Siddeleys that Jason and Michael came on board.  He was sharing a house with them and suggested that they could be what I was looking for.  They certainly were.  I think that playing with Jonathan, Jason and Michael was the most fun I’ve ever had playing with other musicians.  Anyway, back to June 1988 and Triple X Studios.  We were recording an EP to be released on David Payne’s Sombrero Records label.  Initially ‘Cut You Down’ was going to be the A side, but after recording some demos in October 1987 I decided that ‘Two Hearts Beat In A Hole’ sounded stronger.  The record was produced by Steve Parker who I’d known for several years and worked with before.  He’d worked with The Fall, Wire and Microdisney among many others.  He was mixing some songs for the Rolling Stones when we recorded the single and was generous enough to take three days off and lend us his services for free.   So what could possibly go wrong?  Pretty much everything.  I didn’t know what I wanted the record to sound like.  Or, at least, not in a way that I could communicate to Steve.  He did the best that he could, but I think that the result sounds puny and antiseptic.  ‘Two Hearts Beat In A Hole’ wasn’t a good choice for the A side – it doesn’t have a proper chorus or anything resembling a hook.  The vocals are feeble and underpowered throughout the record.  Guitars sound awful – the guitar solo on the A side is a Telecaster going through a Marshall stack but it sounds like a wasp farting in a jar.  Again, I have to say that none of this is Steve’s fault – this is the man who produced ‘How I Wrote Elastic Man’ – I simply didn’t have a sufficiently articulate idea of how I wanted the record to sound, or sufficient studio experience to impose any character on the result.  But, hey, it got played by John Peel, so who cares?

++ How did a guitar pop band managed to live in London during those years? Did gigs pay good or did you had to have different jobs?

Without going into a lengthy exposition of British economic policy in the 1980s,  suffice to say that the Thatcher government decided that the best way to spend the once-in-a-lifetime revenue from British oil was to pay a record amount of people not to work.  While this brought real hardship to countless families who had depended on coal, steel and shipbuilding for their livelihoods, for feckless young twats like myself who just wanted to stay in bed till lunchtime and strum a guitar, it meant that  British taxpayers were co-opted into subsidising some very average indie bands for a decade.  Once again, I blame Thatcher.  Gigs paid very badly – the low point of what I laughingly refer to as my musical career occurred downstairs at the Clarendon Ballroom in Hammersmith when I was paid 20 pence (about 30 cents) to split between the four of us.  It would have been marginally less insulting not to have been paid at all.  Needless to say, I pocketed the money and said nothing to the others.

++ What was your favorite spot in London during those years? Were would you see the Reserve gang hanging out a Saturday night?

As I didn’t have a job, life was one long weekend and every night was Saturday night.  Bay 63 in Notting Hill had loads of great bands on.  The Enterprise in Camden Town.  The White Horse in Brixton. Some other places which I can’t remember the names of.  Essentially I went to loads of gigs.  And when I wasn’t at gigs I was up to all sorts of capers with Simon and Richard in Finsbury Park (the area of north London, not the actual park).  I blame the cheap sherry.  And Thatcher.

++ You recorded demos for a second single. Will they ever pop up in some kind of form? Why wasn’t that single released? I can’t believe that no label was interested back then! Was Butcher’s Daughter part of that demo?

Yes, ‘Butcher’s Daughter’ was supposed to be the A side of our second single. If you want to know what it sounds like you can find it on The Sound of Leamington Spa Vol 2.   We recorded the three songs we had lined up for the next record at Grant Lyons’s studio in Brighton.  He’d already released a version of ‘Last Train Home’ on his Hoopla  compilation.  The other two songs were ‘What People Say’ and ‘Postcard From Paradise’.  Sombrero had kind of folded by this stage, so I sent the demo round to some other labels but there wasn’t any interest.  In retrospect, I think the band might have been more successful if we’d had a manager because I really hated that side of it – phoning round to get gigs and that sort of thing.  But, y’know, I don’t think the destiny of Western cultural history has been too badly derailed by the failure of Reserve to become an over-arching, global force.

++ Then the band split up. What happened? What did Torquil MacLeod do during those years before forming The Atom Miksa Reservation?

OK, so it’s 1990.  No one’s interested in releasing ‘Butcher’s Daughter’ and I’ve moved from London down to Brighton so that I can carry on being a drain on the state’s  resources while watching the tide go in and out.  I did manage to drag myself back up to London for the occasional rehearsal and gig up until the summer, but then it kind of fizzled out.  It was exactly how I didn’t want the band to end, but that’s the way things go, I guess.   That same year I started working in radio down in Brighton and by 1993 I was a radio producer at the BBC in London.  And that, dear reader, is what I’ve been doing ever since.  I won the Sony Gold award for Best Speech Radio Programme of the year in May 2008 – hoorah for me!  Of course, music being like some kind of congenital disease, I carried on making sounds in the back room, like some weird, etiolated plant, in the intervening years.  And then, in the summer of 2007, I treated myself to a 16 track digital workstation and discovered this curious thing on the internet called MySpace and that’s how The Atom Miksa Reservation came into being.  Through the wonders of technology it transpires that there are a handful of people around the world who quite like what  I’m doing, which, frankly, makes it all worthwhile.

++ Anything else you’d like to say to the popkids out there?

Ummm…music is a truly wonderful thing.  It’s been there for me ever since Bowie,T.Rex, Slade and the Sweet burst upon my consciousness in the early 70s.  It still has the power to move me, to astonish me and to comfort me…and make me dance round the kitchen like someone demented.  The notion that at some point in my life I may have made a piece of music which has made just one person out there feel a little bit better for 3 minutes in their life is a very humbling thought.   Oh, and Roque, I think what you’re doing with Cloudberry is fantastic and I’m enormously touched and grateful for your support.  Thanks.

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Listen

Reserve – The Sun Slid Down Behind the Tower (flexi version)

Thanks to Alan Fairnie for the interview!

* Alan: Just a short disclaimer – these are my thoughts on the whole thing – Paul and Ian would probably have a different take on it.

++ The band started in 1985 and lasted till 1993, right? How did it start? How did you meet Ian? Why was the main reason for you to have a band with a who gives a fuck attitude? I guess Scunthorpe wasn’t much of a help?

We’d always been into independent music, following bands who weren’t the mainstream and I guess that inspired us to pick up guitars, make a noise, generally try something. You have to remember that the mid to late 1980s was about the difference between independent music and mainstream stuff, there certainly wasn’t the crossover at that time. So labels like Rough Trade, Beggars Banquet and Creation seemed to be offering an alternative. I was into the usual fayre, The Smiths, James, The Fall [actually we both liked them] and my brother was coming at it from a more punk side, he was into the Birthday Party, The Cure, JAMC and stuff. We just decided that one year we wanted a bass guitar and a six string one – luckily our parents managed to get them – real basic ones out of a catalogue – but that was the catalyst for it. I also remember being really adamant that I wouldn’t learn to play any cover versions – that sounds a bit lame now – but I was an opinionated youth.

++ Was it your first band? Which bands influenced The Williams you’d say?

To be honest it wasn’t, we had a band called ‘The Upstairs Room’ for a little bit – it was all new order/ Bunnymen/ Cure influenced – it was terrible really – but out of that merged The Williams. I ‘d got friendly with a mate from school [Ian Cummings] who was into the same stuff as me and he had a bass guitar, so Paul [my brother] got hold of a cheap drum kit and we started putting sounds together. I guess by this time we had decided that we wanted to try and play some gigs and stuff. We were also part of a wider indie scene that congregated around the Scunthorpe Baths Hall and Bentleys, a local public house. So what was influencing us at that time, the usual stuff The Smiths, JAMC, The Fall, sixties stuff like the Bryds and the Stones. There was the indie scene itself as well, flexis from Sha La La and the other fanzines at the time, Lazy records artists like the valentines and the primitives. It was all very tribal, you know you can’t like the flatmates etc and our loyalties ran very deep at the time. I put it down to the innocence of youth, Paul puts it down to me just being a prick.

++ I love the idea of stand up drums. If I ever had a band I would have the same, it seems more energetic, more fun, with much more attitude, also it always reminds me The Shop Assistants. Why did you go that way? Any special reason?

Stand up drums was Paul’s thing, obviously all indie kids were required to watch early Psychocandy JAMC performances with Gillespie giving it large on the two piece and again we all had the velvets first album, Mo Tucker being an idol an all that. However, I actually think it was because before we had a kit we borrowed a snare drum, so Paul just improvised with that and some cardboard boxes. We had heard that Buddy Holly used to record like that somewhere. We tried working with a full kit but it was a right hassle to get to rehearsal spaces with it all – so it was kept to minimum. He did add a cymbal at some point. I do remember when the scream first saw us at the Hull Adelphi that Bobby thought Paul was one of the coolest drummers he’d ever seen with two drums. He could get some rhythm going – used to end up blistered after every gig. And yes I guess it did have that anti-muso thing going on. Again at that time in our local music shop you could pick up a free paper about the music scene and it was all interviews with fucking metal heads, gutarists in bands called ‘It Bites’ and drummers with twenty five piece kits, we were both anti all that and basic chancers – it was the attitude that kept us going. We weren’t liked. Or at least we wanted to be disliked – I think our music helped in that respect. It was basic at the beginning.

++ What was it like to have a band back then? Did you feel there was a guitar pop, c86, community happening, or was it more of a myth we have today?

C86 – I’m not sure we even remember it coming out with the NME to be honest. I was a fanzine writer – inspired by the great and the good – so I knew of these emerging indie bands and there were some excellent ones. But whether they should be seen as a scene is an odd one – we wanted authentic music – they had things in common. We didn’t want to be pop stars [that sadly came later] There was just a network of places to play and people with a common philosophy. I mean to me, and I can’t speak for the rest of these bands or even the members of my band, but it was about an anti-capitalism thing. I was political – I hated the way music had become homogenised and generic – it’s naïve but at that time I thought I was doing something to challenge that. I remember seeing McCarthy and thinking that it was possible to do both. Didn’t impact on our music – or lyrics – but it was there in spirit. Having a band back then is the same as having a band right now – it feels like you can take any fucker on – we were an army- you know what I mean. We’d get into scrapes just because we felt were right about stuff. It was possibilities – it always is when you’re growing up in a small town.

++ Your first gig happened in 1987, 2 years after formed. What are your memories from that August 1987? Who did you play with?

Our first gig was a three song set at the local Battle of the Bands – first heat – first on – it went remarkably well – I was using this thin Kay guitar that I was able to get feedback from for the final number. I remember the review in the local free newspaper – it compared us to the JAMC and the Wedding Present. We went around seething because we hated David Gedge – you see what I mean – it was all about having opinions – taking sides. Very silly really. However, I remember thinking that I quite enjoyed it up on the stage – so we played a gig at Bentleys [the local pub] pretty soon after – utter amateur chaos. We were being heckled from beginning to end – a red rag to a bull really. I do remember one of the The Hoverchairs [another moderately successful Scunthorpe group – who we thought was made up of old men] shouting out when my string broke to ‘take them all off’ at the time it spurred me on in a psychotic rage to be that little bit louder that little bit more aggressive – now I think it’s a funny heckle.

++ In your little bio you say you grew up on Sha La La flexis. So you were total popkids! What was your favourite Sha La La flexi? Were you a fan of Are You Scared to Be Happy as well?

I have to be careful here – because I reckon I’m the indie kid – Paul and Ian couldn’t stand half the twee stuff I was into. I remember getting all the AYSTGH fanzines – it was like having the manual to creating the best indie band/label ever. I was also getting Trout Fishing in Leystone, Simply Thrilled, Sowing Seeds, Woosh all sorts of stuff – you’d buy them at gigs – 50p and a free flexi – how could that be wrong? But pop to us was the beach boys, The Rolling Stones, Joy Division, the velvets, dinosaur, the valentines, the ronettes etc. It wasn’t just these bands on Sha La La – I think that gives it context but it wasn’t the only thing we were grooving to. You know we had the first Beasties album and Public Enemy and stuff – we still made indie music though. If I had to name my favourite sha la la – I was well into the baby Lemonade one  and the clouds [a seriously underrated band if there ever was one] – you see now you’ve got me thinking about them – Remember Fun, Emily, the sea urchins all were brilliant. They just summed up stuff at the time.

++ Get That Anorak Off was a zine you put out. I’ve never seen it, how many issued did you do? What was the best of being involved with the fanzine culture? Do you think blogs can act as a digital fanzine or it would never achieve the charm of a typewritten pamphlet?

I started GTAO when I was 15 – we’d been following The Primitives around the north and I wanted to show off that we kind of knew them – so I just wrote up the experience, I remember Paul did a review of the fall’s new album and there was stuff about other bands in there – I got it photocopied in the steelworks office where my dad worked – he did it when the foreman wasn’t there and then tried selling it round Scunthorpe and gigs. It sold – so I did another one – this was more indie based – I started interviewing more bands, I think issue 2 had the brilliant corners, the chesterfields, razorcuts etc in it. It came with a crayoned cover sold out fairly quickly and basically I kept producing them until I started university. The final one [I think there were five in all] was finished at university [it had dinosaur/ spacemen 3/ the telescopes/ primal scream in it] and by then I was drifting into the whole acid house culture and the indie scene felt a little backward looking – I know now it wasn’t but I was getting my energy from other sources – so fanzine culture wasn’t a big part of it.

However, I think the whole thing about fanzines and the culture that goes with it was/ is the sense that you can put your thoughts down – you don’t mediate the same way as a newspaper – you have values and ideologies but they really are your own. And it’s mad that you end up getting letters from Singapore or Australia from like minded people who are into the same scene – it was about having a voice and during that period I feel I could express it – on the most part in a clumsy, inarticulate manner – but it was my voice nonetheless.

In that way I think blogging is the way forward, I’m not always sure that it reaches the audience in the same way – but young kids are fairly hip and tell each other about what’s going on all the time. You know I’m the paper generation but the blogging community is keeping that independent spirit alive  – more power to it.

++ You released a split flexi with Esmerelda’s Kite that came with the Shoot The Tulips zine. I read this was the best selling of them, 800 copies. It even got airplay by John Peel! Was that the biggest highlight of The Williams? How did you end up on this flexi?

The flexi was a good thing – recorded on the strangest 4-track recorder in our bedroom – I remember that I’d met Jo in Leeds- she sold me her fanzine and introduced me to pale saints – we hit it off and discussed the possibility of doing a joint flexi together. Suffice to say my band was going on it – so in some ways it was a vanity press sort of thing. She knew a band from Leeds called Esmerelda’s Kite – of whom the singer would go on to become The Gentle Despite who released some stuff on Sarah records. I think it cost a bit – but we made it back from the sales – she sold out and so did I – it was bizarre – I’ve still got a couple left but generally that flexi is out there.

Jo hated the fact that I called the label Sunshine [in retrospect she was right] and when we got it back from the manufacturers it had three tracks as opposed to the two listed – so it was even better value for money. The John Peel thing was a highlight – Jo rang and said he was going to play the flexi – and we thought he’d play Esmerelda’s Kite – it sounded more garage etc. but we had forgotten that he had a son named William. I remember him introducing it and Paul and I just trying to tape it – it was weird to hear it on the radio. After that it got picked up by some other European stations and even ended up in some charts. Having John Peel play your record means he had to listen to it – make a decision and programme it – it was John Peel do you know what I mean – I listened to him every night. Still he never gave us a session – despite the hundred of tapes we gave him.

++ Did you had any other releases? I can’t find a full discography? Maybe some tape appearances?

To be honest I’m not sure – we gave out our demo tapes to so many people and I think we came out on various tape compilations – who knows. We actually tried to get Firestation to put out ‘Still Keep Coming’ or ‘Lose myself in you’ but they just wanted the flexi and we only had a shit tape of it. It sounds bloody awful on the Leamington Spa CD.

++ You went into a six day tour with Primal Scream, when they were still good, what do you think happened to them? Why did they went into the dark side of music?!

The Scream dates were the most enlightening nights of my life when it comes to music – we had managed to convince the Adelphi to put us on as support. You know, that to us was an achievement – but after we’d finished the whole fucking Scream had been watching so they invited us to come down to Sheffield the next night and just put us on the bill. We used their instruments and I broke the pick up on Throb’s Les Paul – he just thought it was rock n roll – I was shitting myself. Good bloke – very good bloke. And it kind of spiralled from there – the thing is what people might not know is that the Scream are the most open, honest and genuine rock n roll band you’ll ever meet. You know I was just 18 and Andrew Innes and Bobby Gillespie would be giving you this insight into music that you couldn’t find in Scunthorpe – Innes was like get some Sly Stone in your collection. They just didn’t judge and had this raw political edge. It was an MC5 thing going on – we were all learning.  And then it was just hanging out for a long time with them, you know the whole Screamadelica thing, Weatherall , Alex Patterson, Nightingale, Douglas from the JAMC videoing all kinds of hedonism. Absolute mayhem. So to me The Scream were never this ‘indie – jangly’ thing – and to be honest I didn’t think we were either.

++ The Williams also played with The Pale Saints, The Telescopes, The Sainsburys, St. Christopher, Sea Urchins and many more. Which was your favourite gig and why? What was the best of being part of The Williams?

This could go on forever, all the gigs were good, we were generally mates with the bands so it felt good just playing a set and then watching theirs. I wish we had stuck to playing the same set – we wrote far too much and played it infrequently – it’s a wonder that we had any fans – we used to have a new set every week. I remember the Sea Urchins in Deptford – I emailed James the other month and he replied saying that they had wanted to put out one of our tunes – I couldn’t even remember that. So I guess it tells you about the state we used to play in – once with Emily I just kept falling off the stage and then I lost it blamed everyone but myself for the thing falling apart. Meanwhile Paul and the rest of Emily are robbing the bar – indie kids had attitude back then. So it’s hard to pinpoint a favourite – it was different every time. And the best part of being in The Williams was just making music – Paul and Ian were a fucking revelation – when we were on it we came up with the goods. Not bad for a bunch of amateurs.

++ Would you go to pop gigs as fans at all? I guess you didn’t get many at Scunthorpe?

We went to gigs all the time – I guess you do when you’ve no responsibilities and money to burn [well we never had money to burn – but we got around] I was also putting gigs on in Scunthorpe – so I brought Pale Saints there just after they’d been signed to 4AD – the crowd didn’t have a clue – they played a continuous set – genius. The Applicants played, I think that’s how Rob got involved.

++ Rob Dillam from Adorable joined the band for a while. How did that work out? Was him an influence into the latter change of sound of The Williams? That of a more noisy, more shoegazy, guitar sound

Rob wrote me a letter – drove all the way from Coventry to Hull and leant me a Fender Jaguar for the night – he was a star I’m telling you. And it just came to be that he joined the group. We had been going in the noise direction pretty much straight after the flexi came out – he just made it even more brutal. He had money you see – shit loads of pedals and amps and stuff. He just made a racket in the back. I think he should have pushed himself more into it – but then he had to deal with us control freaks – no wonder he joined Adorable. And then he goes and gets signed to Creation.

++ Why did you call it a day in 1993?

I think calling it a day doesn’t really explain how the band mutated from this ‘indie’ thing into the sprawling beast that was Superelectric. We’d kind of gravitated to the dance arena [hadn’t everyone gone baggy?] but we were listening to a whole heap of different sounds, The Beach Boys, the Beasties, Warp Records stuff, The World of Twist, obscure 1960s stuff and the notion of C86/ Twee guitars was restrictive in a way – you know, you couldn’t change – at least we thought it was restrictive. Looking back it wasn’t but we tended to alienate ourselves from just about everything. Paul moved over to programming and using analogue keyboards and stuff and Ian started developing a more fluid bass approach. So the electrics were born – I guess The Williams seemed like a generic indie name – I don’t know if that was the right move but that’s what we did. Through the Scream we would send tapes to Tim Abbott and it was all promises and favours and maybes and will try to get this and that – basically everyone was waiting to see what would sell. We kept sending the demos to him – they liked them – I tried to get the band to move to London – that didn’t happen – so we were stagnating. Oasis came along and Creation’s focus shifted – we were pretty much left high and dry. After that Ian moved on – we played in a number of formations but it all fell apart. We’re all back in touch now – we’re all making music- just not together. I think the spirit of superelectric lives on somewhere in all of us [ the band – not the world]

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

It was good while it lasted – there’s music out there if anyone wants to listen to more – you can find both the The Williams and Superelectric on Myspace and on Lastfm. Alternatively you can email myself – and I’ll send you stuff – the address being alanfairnie@aol.com

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Listen

The Williams – Lose Myself in You