Thanks so much to Craig Beck for the interview! I had written some time ago about this fantastic Newcastle, Australia, band on the blog and happily a week or so ago Craig got in touch! Now based in London, Craig was keen to tell me many details about the band, answering all the questions thoroughly! This is great, I love interviews like this! Also it seems he plans to release many of the demos and unreleased tracks by the band in the future, so keep an eye on Burning Winter for sure!

++ Hi Craig! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Yes, I am and quite a lot and have for most of my life.

I currently own and run a publishing company called Audio Wallpaper LTD based in the UK where I’ve resided for the last 8 years. I came to the UK for a career sidestep from running Universal Production Music for Australia & New Zealand. I’ve been in Production music since being employed with BMG since 2004. My goal was always to start my own business and now successfully produce 4 libraries as well as manage another.

https://www.audiowallpaper.com/#/home

https://www.cratediggermusic.com/

I no longer play live and haven’t since moving to the UK, but I’ve been writing, recording and producing my own music since I was 16 but in the last 14 years have released music under my artist name of “SKYBABY SIREN” in which I do mostly everything with the help from some amazing singer songwriters. These days it’s mainly a hobby.

https://open.spotify.com/artist/1SM8CK5F7RR0Bm4IhZGS9W?si=_2KzmV-oRVmejwxaDgKnOw

Before this I was in the Anatomy Class, Etherland (Simon “Starling”), Luxury, Promenade.

To note LUXURY was a mix of some well-known artists who were in bands such as Glide, Scarlet, Jesus and Mary Chain and still write and perform. We had a modicum of success with this band that included a record and publishing deal but imploded around 2002.

https://open.spotify.com/album/11XHbyykgfQRwXOqgCfW6D?si=ABcemkaYTuuWpuESiBvrkA

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories?

For me music was always in my early life despite not having musical parents. They didn’t have a decent music collection and I was mainly subjected to artists such as ABBA, Meatloaf & Dire Straits but in saying that we always listened on Sunday nights to the radio show with Casey Kasem that was an American top 40 so I suppose that’s most likely one of the reasons as to why I have an eclectic taste in music and has helped greatly in my career. My Nanna once told me she noticed I’d be ear wormed quite regularly with tunes and my first was Glen Campbells “Rhinestone Cowboy”.

++ Do you remember what your first instrument was?

Apparently, I destroyed a toy drum set when I was quite young – 50 years later I can finally play the drums a little.

But my first official instrument was probably the bass – I made a mock instrument from some cardboard, a ruler and 4 rubber bands – no it didn’t make a sound but it was a start.

++ How did you learn to play it?

I moved onto the acoustic guitar when I hit high school. I had some lessons but hated it and then taught myself. I later moved onto Bass and now flip between the two but I think I’m a better rock Bassist and probably wouldn’t call myself a guitarist, but I manage to get sound out of it. I’m more into riffs and simple chords with loads of fx.

++ What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

Hmmm, pre-teen my taste was probably just mostly commercial and listened more to compilation tapes. My first artist obsession was Aha – I only found out recently that I live just down the road from where “Hunting High & Low” was recorded along with loads of other artists and albums that I grew up with. More on that later.

In my teenage years luckily, I had some friends with good taste guide me along but bands that stood out for me were The Cure, The Cult, The Church, The Smiths, Echo & The Bunnymen, Pink Floyd and then loads of Aussie Indie stuff like the Hoodoo Gurus, Oils, INXS and loads more – I was a music fanatic.

++ Had you been in other bands before Burning Winter? 

Yes, my first garage band and first gig was with a band called “The Lost Spirits” which then morphed into “The Violet Wake” to “The Wake”. My close friend and band member was Craig McGuiness who went onto to form “The Hanged Man” who was also later to be on “The My Beautiful Pigeonhole” compilation in which I had a part of recording it as well at 48Volts studio.

++ What about the other band members?

Blake Doyle – Drums – later played for “The Crying Suns”

++ Are there any songs recorded by these bands? 

There are no recordings of The Lost Spirits and there is a VHS live tape of The Wake performing at Newcastle University which from memory was a band comp and won by Rob Taylors “Sitting Ducks” who went on to be my mentor, sound engineer teacher and then later producer for Burning Winter and some of Luxury.

Rob Taylor credits – The Whitlams, Def Fx (Both of which I assisted recording on – more on this later) and many many more Aussie bands – to note he was also responsible for the association with Phantom Records which lead to The Corridor and My Beautiful Pigeonhole release.

** Not sure I’ll ever release that Wake stuff – the quality isn’t great, and I’d have to track down a VHS machine to transfer but I’m not sure it’s worth it.

++ Where were you from originally?

I was born in Eastwood Sydney and moved to Newcastle around 1975 – I still call myself a Novocastrian as it’s where I have lived the longest so far, but I’ve been told I can say I’m from England now 😉

++ How was Newcastle at the time of Burning Winter?

Newcastle had an amazing and flourishing indie music scene in the early 90s.

I went to many gigs, but Newcastle was also in this transition stage of once being a steel manufacturing city with the BHP along with it being a major port.

The earthquake in ‘89 I suppose you could say was partly responsible for the area getting a makeover given the magnitude of damage.

Personally, I loved growing up in Newcastle but knew that if I was to grow and get anywhere musically and career wise I’d have to leave.

++ Were there any bands that you liked?

There were loads of bands I liked from Newcastle around this era such as MeMeMe, Bugbears, The Long Knives, Golden Section and Einsteins Wireless.

But I also had a fascination with cover bands. Newcastle was the cover capital of Australia I reckon, and I went because I admired the way those musicians played their instruments so well. Yes, they couldn’t write music but it really helped me focus on making a band tight as well as other production values. I used to frequent a club where a band called “Young Guns” resided – from memory they played every week on a Tuesday or something and there weren’t that many people who went BUT they always played well no matter how many people were in front of them and that taught me a very valuable lesson.

++ Were there any good record stores?

OMG! Record stores were my life and very much miss them. I now occasionally get to Rough Trade in Notting Hill London (Home to The Smiths and The Sundays) and you can guarantee of walking out of there with something decent new.

There were 4 record stores I frequent nearly every day in the late 80s & 90s. Oscars was the main one for new vinyl along with another one on Hunter Street and then there was 2 second hand shops, one on Hunter street next to Muso’s Corner and the other was Cooks Hill books and records. Before leaving Oz, I reckon I had close to 1000 records which I sold the majority of because of my move abroad.

++ What about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

So many and I went to them all as well as played them.

Tatts, Cambridge, Lucky Country, The Workers, Newcastle Uni bar on the hill to name a few but as I said, so many and I loved them all – live music was also my life.

++ Were there any other good bands in your area?

Some bands were better than others, but they all had a certain style or quality about them – some wrote great songs but were poor performers, others were great players but the originals not as good.

One standout for me were “The Plants” – they had great originals, and the front man Chris was truly charismatic and a true rock star, they also played awesome covers from the likes of The Pixies, Bunnymen and a plethora or other great global indie artists. It’s truly a major shame their songs were not properly recorded as I still feel they could have been huge as they had the X factor much like Silverchair but way more credible.

++ How was the band put together?

Two of the members Darren Rowe and Phillapa Rees were originally from a band called “Moonscope” (Darren – Ex Hipslingers) and I think we were just at a pub watching them one night with Mark “Joel” Hetherington the drummer. I think Darren at the time was at a loose end with Moonscope and we all kinda bonded on various musical influences. Darren was actually playing bass at the time, and I believe he wanted to play guitar which turned out to be a blessing because I still feel to this day he is one of the best guitarists I’ve ever played with and an amazing songwriter.

++ How was the recruiting process?

So, no recruiting as such – I think I’d also finished up with a band at the time and was looking for like-minded folks and I’d switched from guitar to bass.

++ Was there any lineup changes? I believe the keyboardist Rachel Rose was replaced by Phillippa Rees?

So Phillipa came first – she played keys, flute and backing vocals – she just didn’t turn up to a gig one night and I think she’d just had enough of us boys.

Then came Rachel and jeebers that was so for the best – she more or less took over front person duties singing and playing guitar. Rach was a massive Pink Floyd fan and particularly Gilmour which was great cause so was Darren and eventually me. My son is even called Floyd.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

So, we mainly rehearsed on the top floor of a building on Hunter st in the city centre – I think it was an old bank. We shared this space with bands The Galore, maybe The Goddards and someone else (Soz, can’t remember). It was a great space for jamming and rehearsing and we’d even have underground parties/gigs there which were so much fun and super cool.

We’d usually jam out ideas and improvise but mostly someone would have an idea they’d written or recorded, and we transformed those into band tracks.

Because we had our own space, we also each had our own storage area along with the main performance area so we setup a make shift 4 track recording studio in it in which I we all took full advantage of. I was there almost 3-4 nights a week sometimes by myself honing my craft. I still have all the tapes from those sessions and released an anthology a couple of years back under the SKYBABY SIREN monicker called “Never seen the light of day” – Weirdly some of those tracks get a lot of streams and I’m not sure who it is but it kinda freaks me out someone actually digs those tunes.

If it wasn’t for that studio space I wouldn’t have become better at song writing and production which had then pushed me into being a sound engineer but I really liked the idea of doing everything myself and I’m still pretty much the same these days – it’s not that I’m a control freak it’s just that I really do enjoy every facet of the recording & mixing process as well as making cover art and doing promo videos.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

Sigh  – I can vaguely recollect us being at Darren’s place coming up with names and I’m not gonna claim this although I sort of remember coming up with either Winter or Burning. I pushed for “Silk Overdrive” but that was quickly rejected.

Surprisingly there is no a Burning Winter on Spotify – Part of the reason of that name was the fact we thought there was no way in the world someone would think of that name or put those 2 words together but oh how wrong we were.

I remember a little rivalry between The Galore and the BW’s and they used to refer to us as Burning Sphincter.

++ Are there more songs recorded by the band? Unreleased ones?

As I mentioned there are loads of tracks, all ranging from average to great. Some we’d recorded live on a 4 track just to get them down so we could see whether they were worth properly recording. I suppose you could have called it pre-production. Then there are 11 great tracks I recorded and mixed in a couple of studios in Sydney I was working at at the time. These will make up the official unreleased Burning Winter album yet to be titled.

There were about 6 tracks in demo stage we’d done under the band name Doradus which we had recorded but I’ve seemed to have misplaced the DAT masters which is a shame as I remember these being really good ☹

++ My favourite song of yours is “Lap of the Land”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

This track was written by Darren so I don’t know what it’s about, but I loved Darren’s lyrics, but Rachels were also amazing if not better.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Burning Winter song, which one would that be and why?

“Splinter” – for some reason it really makes me sad when I hear it but yet elated. It’s quite an epic piece and I think at the time we were quite into a UK band called All About Eve and particularly the “Touched By Jesus” album in which Marty Willson-Piper from the Church co-wrote and played guitar on. It’s still one of my favourite records.

Splinter:

Splinter in your finger, throbbing with the pain

Swelling with the poison, venom in your vains

Splinter in your heart just, underneath the skin

A sliver of a secret that makes the cracks begin

You pick me up and you throw me down

You smashed me into atoms scatter me around

You chop me up like firewood for winter

When you look for me, all you found were splinters

In your memory, run for me in fright

Chase the demons back out into, the dark and godless night

Splinter in your spirit and Splinter in your soul

A careless little splinter leaves a careless little hole

You pick me up and you throw me down

You smashed me into atoms scatter me around

You chop me up like firewood for winter

When you look for me, all you found were splinters

Splinter in your spirit and Splinter in your soul

A careless little splinter leaves a careless little hole

You pick me up and you throw me down

You smashed me into atoms scatter me around

You chop me up like firewood for winter

When you look for me, all you found were splinters

You cut me up like firewood in winter

When you look for me, all that’s left were splinters

I’ve also cut a promo video and it’s now a pre-release album single.

https://youtu.be/Xjqx5aFEN7Q?si=GtLnMruL-Sn5QsjB

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

We played so many shows and at one stage had a monthly residency for almost a year a club in the city which will filled every time. We played little small room intimate shows to rooms with thousands. Rob and Dave did our sound live and we had our own PA so the mix and lightshow was consistently good, something we worked hard on and particularly being tight.

++ And what were the best gigs that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

We did a Newcastle Uni orientation day that was quite a good show along with a few big ones supporting some popular artists. I remember one show almost commanding the audience as I started jumping up and down and so did the crowd. We did enjoy the more smaller intimate shows particularly at the Cooks Hill Hotel – it was tiny and so was the stage.

++ And were there any bad ones?

I think the only bad one I remember is when Phillipa left and didn’t show up but if it hadn’t been for that Rachel would never been part of our lives.

++ When and why did Burning Winter stop making music?

I think we imploded around 1996 – we all moved to Sydney from Newcastle to really try and make it. Darren, Rach and I lived together for a while and then they moved back to Newcastle. I stayed and tried to make in work between 2 cities. I remember the day they phoned me and more or less fired me, I was heartbroken after everything we’d been through and the lame reason they gave was because I was too loud.

++ Were any of you involved in any other projects afterwards? I read about Skybaby Siren?

I had a break for a bit after the BW’s as they really hurt me. I then went onto forming Promenade which broke after our lead singer committed suicide. That band then morphed into Luxury then that broke up in 2003. I then moved to Melbourne joined a band called Etherland with whom the singer songwriter I collaborated with for my first solo project under the banner of Skybaby Siren which has been my music hobby now for quite some time. It did start off as a band, but it didn’t work out, so I kept the name and continued writing and releasing music under that pseudonym.

I get mainly people streaming from Apple music and Youtube, Spotify seems to be a bit more lower in traffic but I have quite a decent sized catalogue out now.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

We got a little radio airplay mainly because a friend of mine was a DJ at a local radio station.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

We always made sure to promote our gigs and other things in local and Sydney papers – we did some interviews, did some photo shoots but nothing that really help expose us to a larger fan base.

++ What about fanzines?

Not that I can remember no.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

For me I suppose doing all the studio recordings – we always had so much fun recording, and we were like a family and super close but like with a lot of bands we sadly grew apart.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

These days the only thing that gives me comfort is cooking – I’ve been a cook since childhood and grew up in pubs and worked in many restaurants, it’s the only thing that isn’t stressful and is more meditative and comes easily. Doing music I’ve always found I have to work hard at.

++ I’ve never been to Newcastle nor Australia so I’d love to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

You’d need a month or more if you were going to see Australia properly and if you’re venturing all that way from the other side of the globe, I’d suggest also seeing New Zealand and also Tasmania, one of Australia’s best kept secrets.

Do Sydney and Melbourne and perhaps go to the Blue Mountains – I lived there for a while and is still one of my favourite places in the world that also includes Austria and Southern Germany, mainly Bavaria and Swabia.

Being now based in the UK I miss a good meat pie along with all the yummy fresh produce and restaurants and food Australia has to offer.

I haven’t been back since I left 8 years ago but I’m sure it hasn’t changed that much – if you’re a wine drinker then there are many areas that produce great vino – Hunter Valley, Bendigo and Heathcote VIC, Coonawarra and Margeret River along with Mornington Peninsula plus Tassie does great Rieslings.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

I’d just like to say thanks for your interest and support for my band and including it in your blog and I hope you enjoy the forthcoming albums. I had fun sitting down and compiling this over a couple of days, it can be nice reminiscing about the old days.

Cheers

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Listen
Burning Winter – Lap of the Land

Thanks so much to Patrick William Woodward for the interview! Billycart was a terrific but short-lived Australian band from the late 90s. Their recorded output is small, just a few songs, some of them that appeared on the “Clippings” compilation on Candle Records. One of its members, Kellie Sutherland, would later be in Architecture of Helsinki, which probably all of you know.
I wrote about them some weeks ago, and it was great to hear from Patrick and even better that he was up to fill in the blanks, answer all the questions I had!

++ Hi Patrick! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? You were telling me you are not involved with music anymore? Why is that?

Hey thank you for having me!! I am very well, living my fullest life through a cold winter here in the Southern part of NSW in Australia. Music has taken a back seat to life as a father… for now!!

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

My first instrument was a guitar, well my sisters! I was playing it upside down but hey! She taught me the correct way in time. I listened to a lot of Australian rock/pop… Midnight Oil, INXS, Kids in the Kitchen etc

++ Had you been in other bands before Byllycart? What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded by these bands?

Billycart was my first venture into music with my mate Kellie Sutherland. Kellie is a great friend and a very talented musician who went onto create some amazing music.

++ Where were you from originally?

I grew up in the western suburbs of Sydney about 1 hour from the city, which felt like a lifetime away as a kid!

++ How was Sydney at the time of Billycart? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Sydney in the 90’s had a vibrant music scene, on any given night you could see an amazing band! The Annandale hotel and the Sandringham hotel were my favs.. never still exist unfortunately. Billycart were lucky at the time to play these venues with some of our personally favourite bands such as The Simpletons and The Lucksmiths! The city was the place to see music.. my town of Penrith provided quality cover bands!! Not to my liking

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

Kellie and I meet at a music festival in Byron Bay northern NSW.. We hung out then lived together and started creating music together. Was mainly just Kel and I. We had a few friends such as Ryan James and Darren Hanlon play at times!

++ Was there any lineup changes?

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

We wrote most songs together, sharing lyric duties… i often came up with tunes then we would write lyrics to suit!

++ What about influences? I read that Kellie was a big fan of the Portland band Kissing Book for example. What about you?

I loved the Go-Betweens big fan!! Crowded House, Midnight Oil.. then were and still are today favourites!

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

Billycart the name… well at first we were called Cul de sac as in dead end street… no future there we thought! Then we settled on Billycart.

++ So I know the band through the songs that appeared on the “Clippings” compilation on Candle Records. How did your songs end up on this compilation? Were you familiar with this label? Had a good relationship?

So we arrived on the clippings compilation via Chris Crouch who Kellie and I lived with! We were such great house mates he felt it was only fair that we appear!

++ The obvious question is, why didn’t you get to release any records with them afterwards? Was there any interest from them or yourselves to do so?

I guess i feel out of love with music for a while.. Kellie moved to Melbourne and greener musical pastures and i stopped playing for a bit.. i found playing gigs pretty stressful and not really my cup of tea. Till a few years down the track and started another band called Aer Cadets.

++ And what about other labels? Did anyone knock your door to release your songs?

I never really took it seriously so i guess i never pursued labels or anyone releasing song.. never too late i guess!!

++ I ask these questions as the two songs on the compilation are great and it surprises me the band didn’t get to release a proper record. Strange to say the least! But do tell me a little more about these songs. Were they perhaps part of a demo with even more songs?

The two songs we recorded were just for the compilation, prior we recorded 8 songs i think which was released on cassette by us!! Darren Hanlon also played with us on that!

++ I read they were recorded by Angus Kinston. He was a regular in Candle compilations, recordings. How was that experience?

Angus Kinston was a great engineer and fun to work with as he was a friend! He recorded the cassette we realised as well!

++ The song “Cherish” had the help from Darren Hanlon and Ryan James from The Simpletones. What was your relationship with them? And what did they add to this great tune?

Cherish ( not the Madonna one ) was fun as Kellie and I only really played live as a two piece.. Ryan played drums and Darren guitar which made us sound and feel like pro’s!!

++ Going back to that compilation,”Clippings”, there are many bands I am unfamiliar with. Were you familiar with many of them? Knew them? Played with them?

Most of the bands on the clippings compilation were friends with each other which was amazing.. all would play together, some toured together.. Kellie was also in a band which appeared on the album, Falcon 500!

++ Are there more songs recorded by the band? Unreleased ones?

No further songs were ever recorded other than the tape and the clippings compilation.

++ My favourite song of yours is “Cherish”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

I guess cherish was a bit of a love song.. not necessarily about me but just others i observed in my 20’s.. such a time when one is learning so much… to do with love

++ If you were to choose your favorite Billycart song, which one would that be and why?

We had a song called “Bingo”.. it was about playing bingo!! It was a favourite of mine!

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Billycart played a fair bit in Sydney and Melbourne.. loved playing at the punters club in Melbourne.

++ When and why did Billycart stop making music?I had read that Kellie ended up moving to Melbourne to be part of Architecture in Helsinki, was this the reason the band stopped, or had it already stopped by then?

Kellie moved to Melbourne and we still played occasionally down there.. we played with AIH in Melbourne at this old warehouse, think it was the first gig they played. Bunch of other bands played too. It was a memorable gig. I just didn’t appreciate how good to play shows like this was at the time. Kellie remained in Melbourne playing with AIH and I returned back to Sydney. We now ironically live pretty close to each other in Regional Australia. She has two kids and I do as well. Similar ages. We all hang out still!! I formed a band back in Sydney called the Aer cadets, again never to it to serious but enjoyed played with different people and new songs!

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

I believe Cherish got played on radio in Taiwan of all places! We received a royalty check from a radio station one year which was crazy.. should have cashed in and toured in Taiwan

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

We had a few street press reviews of our tape which were all positive! Nothing major but nice words were written.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

I think to say we played with such a great band such as AIH in the early days for them was a tremendous privilege and hi light for Kellie and I.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have? Newcastle United fans?

Having a young family is my hobby these days, well takes up most of my time.. which is fun.. i do still tinker with the guitar and hope to play again someday.. I love aeroplanes and all things aviation which one of my sons now does too! We have a radio scanner so we can hear planes coming into our local airport, if it’s something of interest you can assured we will be first out there to see it…

++ I’ve never been to Sydney so I’d love to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

Sydney was a great city to live in.. we got out around 15 years ago and now live 6 hours away!! Nice to visit and take our kids to but we don’t miss it!! Its such a picturesque city.. the harbour is beautiful.. you can just catch a ferry and cruise around all day taking it all in.. never appreciated that when i lived there.. worth a visit one day for you!!

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Listen
Billycart – Cherish