Thanks so much to Richard for the interview! I had written about the Adelaide, Australia, band Rhymes with Fish some time ago. I was surprised by their great sound and I was definitely very curious about finding more information about them. Happily Richard got in touch and was keen in answering all my questions. Without further ado, here are his answers!

++ Hi Richard! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Hi Roque! I’m good, thanks, and I hope you are too. Thanks for your interest in Rhymes with Fish! Getting close to 40 years since we started making music and we are still stoked to be able to play music together and even more stoked that we have an audience however small it is. We have plans to keep making music and are looking forward to whatever comes next.

++ I see there’s a new release called “Behavioural Enrichment”. Care telling me a bit about this new EP with new recordings of your songs from the 80s? This time with Quentin on vocals? Where can one listen to it, and what differences, if any, would you see in the sounds of these recordings compared on how you sounded back then? 

Behavioural Enrichment is 5 songs we wrote back in the 80’s. We used to record songs that were developed enough to start adding them to the set list. I had a Fostex 4 track cassette recorder. Just 2 mics in the rehearsal room, so the sound quality wasn’t good. This was so we wouldn’t forget the song. We had a 30 year hiatus as a band but rediscovered these old recordings and were surprised how much we still liked the songs and how creative and energetic we seemed to be back then. Some songs we had forgotten about completely, so it was like hearing them for the first time. Our vocalist Trevor died young, but the remaining three of us decided in about 2018 we wanted to keep making music. Since then, we have been re-learning these old songs and recording them. Three EP’s so far (Fitzroyalty, Arthouse and now Behavioural Enrichment). The first two had my daughter Lily doing the main vocals, while Behavioural Enrichment has me and Quentin on vocals. You can find them all on Spotify, BandCamp and SoundCloud.

We definitely have a different sound now as Trevor was a unique singer. Also, we can’t play as fast and are slower to learn things lol. We are probably sounding a bit more laid back compared to the excitement and energy we pounded out when we were in our twenties and playing live or jamming.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

I remember the teacher whacking me on the back of my head with a wooden ruler in music classes in Grade 5 and being told to “sing it properly”. I had no idea what I was doing wrong, but it set my singing career back a few decades lol. I also remember listening to AM radio with a reel-to-reel tape recorder plugged in with a finger hovering over “record” in case a song I liked came on. My father was a semi-professional musician when I was younger, and at one point in my early twenties I ended up with one of his old flutes and tooted melodies while my housemate Quentin played guitar. Self-taught. Then Quentin showed me how to play guitar. Then we needed a bass player, so I got one of those. It was harder to learn songs pre-internet. You had to learn them by ear, hoping your instrument was tuned close to concert pitch. Or get sheet music from a music store and half the time it was like what the fuck does this sheet music mean lol. I was a bit dyslexic at the time.

At my childhood home, we had jazz records from my father, a few crooners and pop stuff like Elton John (the whole discography I think) and Supertramp. My first record was the single “Lola” by the Kinks. I don’t think I understood it tbh. I also remember going to my friend’s house aged 14 or so, and his older brother playing a brand new “A Night at the Opera” by Queen real loud on big speakers. I was like well fuck me.

++ Had you been in other bands before Rhymes with Fish? What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded by these bands? 

Rhymes with Fish was the first band for myself, Quentin and Trevor. Ivan was previously drumming in a rock-a-billy cover band.

++ Where were you from originally?

Born and bred in Adelaide, South Australia, like the other guys in the band.

++ How was Adelaide at the time of Rhymes with Fish? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

There was a thriving live music scene in Adelaide when we were playing. In the inner city pubs there were two main types of bands. The metal / power punk bands like Exploding White Mice and Mark of Cain, then the eclectic arty bands that I guess included us and our gig mates “Garages of Desire” and others. We would check out the bands playing at the same venues we used to play in – The Exeter, The Austral, The Centralian, The Woodman’s Inn, The Royal Oak, Limbo Club, Club Foote. Flinders Uni Tavern and Adelaide Uni Bar.

The “go to” record shop for local and alternative bands B Sharp records, who sold our cassette when it came out.

++ Were there any other good bands in your area?

Yep, plenty. The ska band “Strange Tenants” were a popular way to blow off steam. “The Spikes” were a good Adelaide band, with some vinyl out. The bass line on “River of Love” was inspirational. Too many to remember to be honest. In more recent times, Adelaide still produces some great indie bands like the Hard Aches and West Thebarton. The Secondhand Squad is a gem of a band that few have ever heard of, with minimal presence on the internet.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

Trevor and I both studied Biology at Flinders University. Ivan was there too but studying Geography. The Finders Uni Tavern was the place for hanging out and seeing bands and we all knew each other. Trevor was writing poetry. At one point after we had graduated (but not Trevor, another story), Trevor was at my place and we decided to write a song, which became Talk Talk (more about this song below). I guess we wrote some more, and at some point, we recruited Quentin on guitar so we could play them live. Quentin lived in the same share house as me and probably taught me guitar if I think about it. The three of us were playing these songs at parties using a drum machine, me on bass, Quentin on guitar. At one of our more famous parties, we were playing in the lounge room and Ivan was there. He offered to play drums for us going forward, which we jumped on because he was/is a pretty cool guy and was already playing in bands and the drum machine was a pain in the arse.

++ Was there any lineup changes?

Towards the end, Ivan left for Melbourne, and we got Larry K on drums, but soon after Trevor left for Melbourne too and we ran out of momentum and energy. I was writing up a PhD at about that time, had bought a house with my partner and had a kid on the way.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

I remember a pressure, in a good way, to turn up to our weekly rehearsal with “something”. A bit of lyric, a chord progression, or a guitar or bass riff. We would jam out a few ideas and try to turn them into a song. Most often we would have the music forming as an idea, then Trevor would get out his book of poetry and find some words that he could sing along with. We would often get a song together over 1 or 2 rehearsals. That’s why the songs aren’t very sophisticated musically speaking lol. A few times the rest of us would try to write an instrumental, but Trevor would always get his book out and sing something to it and that was the end of that.

Rehearsal night would be a meeting for Asian street food at Hawkers corner, then jamming in the basement of an old warehouse in nearby Hindmarsh. Later, we rehearsed in a band room in an old shop complex in Magill. We all had to chip in $10 or something to pay for the room. The owner lived upstairs and must have been a very patient man.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

There was a gathering in the share house that Quentin and I lived in where a group of people were playing a word game of some sort. Charades perhaps. Alison S. was having a hard time getting a clue for a word, and at one point everyone jumped up and said in unison “Rhymes with Fish!” which seemed amusing at the time. So we took it as the band name. We liked the idea of the confusing interaction when someone asked what the band called, and they thought the name was a riddle. But anyway, it’s the sort of name you regret once it’s too late to change it lol.

++ I am aware of a tape called “Six Songs for Six Dollars” that came out in 1987. It was a cassette album? Or was it a demo tape? Was this your first release?

Yes, it was our one and only self-released recording. It was a cassette of 8 songs sold at gigs and through local independent record stores.

++ Why the name “Six Songs for Six Dollars”? Was that actually the price? Also there were more than six songs on it, right?

Yep, we sold it for $6. I’ve no recollection how we arrived at the name, but the fact that it had 8 songs on it amused us at the time.

++ The tape was recorded mainly live by Tony Elliot in Bartel St. Studios. Why did you take that approach? And how was the experience doing these recordings? Did you enjoy working with Tony? What about the recording studio, was it good?

Tony was a friend of the band via Trevor and ran a high-quality recording studio in the city. He also did live sound for bigger name bands and had a great reputation as a sound engineer. He did live sound for us at the Limbo Club, one of the classier venues in town. We probably couldn’t afford his commercial rates in the studio, but he helped us out by recording us one weekend. It was pre-digital, so it was recorded on 16 (?) track tape. Because of the limited time, we played live with Trevor in a vocal booth. Then there were overdubs for vocals and extra guitar parts and saxophone. I can remember Tony cutting and joining tape by hand to tweak the arrangement for one song! Listening to it again after a few decades when we had it digitized, we were genuinely amazed to hear how tight we played back then. The production quality Tony achieved was outstanding. Decades later it impressed my son Alex, who is an audio engineer himself.

++ And how many copies were made? It seems it is a rare release, right? Mostly sold at gigs and local record stores…

We got a few boxes of cassettes made up. Maybe a couple of hundred tapes? So I guess that makes it rare! A few friends told me they kept them until the tape wore out or their cassette player broke lol. Yep, sold at gigs and local independent record stores. I was able to get the songs digitised off the master tape which I had in my possession for years.

++ On one of the tracks of the tape, “There’s a Hitch”, there’s sax played by Craig Tidswell. Was he from another Adelaide band? Did other guest musicians record for the band?

The enigmatic Craig Tidswell played saxophone and sang in multiple Adelaide bands over the years. He was probably playing in Crabs Cocktail Hour when he dropped into Bartell St to play sax on There’s a Hitch. I think Trevor had arranged for him to swing by. It was late in the day and he strolled in, listened to the track once and did a couple of takes. We gave him a 6 pack of beer as a thank you and he strolled off into the night. His contribution really elevates the track.

We didn’t have any other guest musicians. All our shows were 1 guitar, 1 bass, 1 drum kit.

++ Speaking of recordings, I read that you wrote about 40 songs. How many of them were actually recorded? Were there any other releases during your time?

Prior to Fitzroyalty, there were only the 8 songs on Six Songs for Six Dollars that had been properly recorded.

++ Was there any interest from labels to release your music? Perhaps some big labels?

Not that I can recall. We were self-managed which didn’t do us any favours.

++ When it comes to releases, what would you have liked to release then, an album? an EP? some singles?

We would have settled for any of the above lol.

++ Also, there weren’t any compilation appearances by the band, were there?

Nope.

++ When and why did Rhymes with Fish stop making music? Were any of you involved in any other projects afterwards?

I guess around 1989, our non-music lives started taking precedence, and band momentum was slowing. Ivan left for Melbourne (our interstate “big brother” city) and later Trevor did too. Trevor and Ivan used to hang in Fitzroy, Melbourne which inspired the name of our Fitzroyalty EP.

++ Then there was the reunion in 2018/2019. What made you get back with some of your band members to record again? Did you play live too? 

Quentin and I had kept in touch in the years after Trevor died, but we hadn’t been in touch with Ivan for a while. One day, Quentin bumped into Ivan on the street in Adelaide, and we decided to plan a “long lunch” to catch up and talk about the old band days. We had a great time together and still had the bond that made the band work. I think I fished out of the cassettes from the rehearsals (being the unofficial band archivist) and digitized all I could. Just in time as the cassettes were losing their magnetic coating. We sat around and listened to them and were amazed at our nearly forgotten former life and still thought the songs stood up.

My son Alex owned a recording studio and rehearsal rooms so it seemed a natural progression for the three of us to book a rehearsal room and see what came out. For some of these songs the vocals on the old rehearsal recordings were so indistinct we had to rewrite or make up what we thought Trevor was singing. We didn’t have the lyrics written down anywhere. We were all pretty nervous and a bit rusty, but we pulled together a couple of songs and it felt good to be making music again. Eventually, we set our sights a bit higher and decided to ask Alex to record some songs for us which led to the 2018 Fitzroyalty session. Three songs recorded over a weekend.

In 2021 we did a 2 gig weekend with our old mates “Garages of Desire”. They were still playing together too. It was great. One at the Arthur Arthouse, one at the Grace Emily Hotel. We were humbled that people came out to see us. It was in the middle of COVID so it we were lucky to pull it off with lockdowns and travel bans here and there that year,

++ So you put out a digital EP in 2018 with re-interpreted songs from back in the day. It was called “Fitzroyalty” and had three songs, Verisimilitude”, “Kitchen Window” and “Can We Make Money Out of It”. Were these songs never recorded previously? And also why did you pick specifically these three?

Nope, never recorded before. We chose them by consensus, like a lot of decisions in the band. I guess they connected with each of us in some way and for the first two, they were songs we had forgotten that we had written and there was the pleasure in rediscovering them. “Can We Make Money Out of It” was a song that was always a jam playing live, and never came out the same way twice. Quentin and I swapped instruments for this song, usually at the end of our set. The other day I put together a Spotify Artist playlist of Friends and Influences for the band. It included “Money go Round” by the Style Council and in retrospect the obvious influence of this song on “Can We Make Money Out of It” is a bit embarrassing to be honest lol.

++ Then in 2019 came “Arthouse” another EP with three songs. Were the songs on this EP also old songs being re-interpreted? Or were these new songs?

Also old songs from our 1980’s rehearsal tapes re-interpreted. When we run out of songs to re-record, we better write some new ones 😊. We still have quite a few unrecorded songs to go and are looking forward to choosing another 5 or so to re-record.

++ My favourite song of yours is “Talk Talk”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Well, thanks. Talk Talk was the very first Rhymes with Fish song, so maybe it was all downhill from there lol. I remember it was Trevor and I sitting on a couch in a share house, I guess in 1985 or 86. He had a book of poetry that he had written, and I had the Fostex 4 track to record on. There was a drum rhythm from a Roland TR-101 drum machine. I noodled some chords on an electric guitar, Trevor sang one of his poems to it. Bass and lead guitar were added and we had a song in an hour or so. I guess, judging by the equipment I had, I was attempting to write songs by myself before then with limited success. But that day something clicked, and we just banged a song out to our collective surprise.

The story in the lyrics is probably a homage to a woman that Trevor was fascinated with at the time.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Rhymes with Fish song, which one would that be and why?

Practically every song we wrote as a band, we would be stoked about it on the spot and excited to add to the set list. Then we would jam up another song and be stoked about that and so the cycle repeated. But my favourite now? It might be “The Getaway” from “Six Songs for Six Dollars”. This song started as a bit of a joke that the chord progression should be the alphabet – the major chords from A to G in order. Knowing more music theory now, this idea is ridiculous. But the song worked and it would take someone like Rick Beato or Kirk Hamilton to explain why we could bust so many rules and get away with it. It also tells the story of a good friend of the band, Carl A. who did indeed dig himself an impressive pond. It’s classic jangle guitar pop Rhymes with Fish

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? 

We played a lot of gigs! Maybe 3 or 4 or 5 times a month for 3 years. Inner city pubs and clubs that Adelaide locals may remember, The Exeter, The Austral, The Centralian, The Royal Oak, Limbo Club, Club Foote. Flinders Uni Tavern and Adelaide Uni Bar.

++ And what were the best gigs that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

The most memorable gigs were a semi-residency we had for the graveyard shift at Club Foote. It was on a weeknight and started at 2am. The crowd was a mixed assortment, but given they were in the city at 2am most were drunk or high. But it paid well, $250 for the band in the 1980’s was very good money. Club Foote may have had revenue streams that were a bit questionable. I think I used to go to bed, then set a 1am alarm for the gig. Then go to work the next day. It was the sort of madness only musos in their mid-twenties would contemplate.

++ And were there any bad ones?

In the beginning, we stank to be honest. I have tapes to verify that lol. I recall one gig on Hindley St, the roughest part of town, where the only audience was my Mum and Dad lol. We turned the corner when a woman called Caroline offered to mix the sound for us during a gig at the Royal Oak Hotel. We had been attempting to mix ourselves up until then which is sub-optimal to say the least. She was studying sound mixing somewhere and needed the practice. We cut our takings 5 ways with her and she mixed for us for a couple of years. Wherever you are now Caroline, thank you. At the end, we were a pretty tight unit and pulling crowds. Our sound was probably helped by the arrival of affordable electronic guitar tuners about that time, because tuning by ear in a noisy pub was not easy.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? I read that MMM did give you some promotion? What about TV?

Yes, we had a DJ called Bill from one of the big commercial FM stations as a fan, and he played some songs from “Six Songs” on the FM radio. But our main support was the local community radio station MMM (now DDD). They had a chart based on listener requests, and I one point I remember looking at it and the top ten include a couple of Rhymes with Fish songs alongside names like Prince and Talking Heads. That was pretty mind-blowing. At one point MMM had a fundraising gig at the radio station and we played a 10 song set live to air. There is a recording and some video of that night that is probably good enough quality to put on Youtube at some point come to think of it.

No TV appearances for us, although we did make a video clip for a song called Lollyland. I don’t think it was widely circulated because TV was the only outlet before the internet. That video is “lost” inside a busted VHS tape.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

The main role of the main city newspaper (The Advertiser) back then was to publish a gig guide on Thursdays. You had to ring up and get your gigs for the week in there or you were cooked. There were hundreds of gigs for any given week (possibly an exaggeration). Not a lot of coverage of independent bands in this paper, but we did get covered a bit in the student campus newspapers.

++ What about fanzines?

I don’t recall them being a thing in Adelaide at the time. We might have wound up gigging just before the start of the Adelaide institution “Rip it Up” magazine.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

For me? Finding a group of people that allowed our collective creativity to flourish. It’s a very rare opportunity that not everyone gets.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

I am lucky enough to be at the fart around stage of my life lol. A good day might include one or more of the following: coffee in the sun, a bit of time on the sea riding wind or waves, doing a bit of work, a bit of exercise, a bit of community work, a bit of music and hanging out with family and friends.

++ I’ve never been to Adelaide s0 I’d love to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

Adelaide is a city of about 1 million people. For USA readers, it’s probably got the climate of LA, the wineries of Napa Valley in its surrounding hills and it is pretty left leaning politically like say Seattle. It’s a UNESCO City of Music. Visitors like to check out the beaches, restaurants and wineries. For local cuisine, I’m going to mention a favourite of punters after gigs back in the 80’s – a pie floater from one of the pie carts in the city centre. A bowl with an upside-down meat pie covered in pea soup and tomato sauce. Eaten standing up at the pie cart window. Went down well after midnight when the pubs and venues had closed. Not sure where you would get one today tbh.

I’ll also mention another Adelaide culinary quirk from the 80’s. There was a legal requirement that alcohol could only be served with a meal after a certain time. So many of the music venues would put out a table of paper plates, each with a single lettuce leaf, a tiny bit of tomato and maybe a piece of cheese. This was the “meal”, and it was free for the punters at the gig. Some of them even got eaten when the punters got hungry enough lol.

In modern times, there are plenty of really good restaurants and eateries that could tempt a visitor. We have had waves of immigration that have positively influenced our cuisine. Did I mention the wine? That is one of our things.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

The indie music scene has always been about real people making music for real fans telling stories from their shared lives. Punching up, not down. I’m grateful I was able to be a small part of it. I think the next generation of indie musos will find a way forward even though the music landscape is changing rapidly and it’s hard to make a buck as a band. Many of the social issues we used to sing about are still issues. Not good, but you got keep positive and be the best activist you can. Hopefully music continues to help people find their tribe.

Finally, given the volume I have written, I hope you’re not regretting giving an older musician a chance to talk about the good old days. It’s hard to make us stop lol.

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Listen
Rhymes with Fish – Talk Talk

Muito obrigado to Paulo Coimbra Martins for the interview! I was very surprised when I found a Portuguese band from the early 90s making proper indiepop. They were called Alliallatas and I thought they were really good. So I wrote about them. I didn’t expect to get in touch with band members, my article was in English (and yes I know the world is globalized, but it is still rare to hear from bands that are not English-speaking on the blog). Paulo got in touch. He was very kind though and was up for the interview which he answered with so many details. I find it fascinating what was happening there from his story. Maybe there were other great indiepop bands in Portugal waiting to be re-discovered? In any case, if you haven’t heard Alliallatas do yourself a favor, read this interview and listen to their music!

++ Hi Paulo! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Hey there, how are you? All’s fine here, thanks for asking. First of all, thank you kindly for your interest in my musical groups and my work in that area. Yes, I am still involved in music, from since when I was 16 (back in 1987) to this day, both in playing instruments, conceptualizing soundscapes, composing, writing lyrics, and writing both for fanzines, Indie labels, magazines, as well as books in my own name.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

There seem to be three parts to this question, but I’ll split the answer in two, joining the first and the last into just one, if you mind not…

As for the first part, my first memories are from childhood (late 70s-early 80s) and listening to a lot of radio or my parents’ records, the likes of Abba, Joe Dassin or Demis Roussos which, funnily enough, and as of late, I’ve been rediscovering… Then, I started deep into the New Romantics (which I still love), like Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, Classix Nouveaux, or even things like The Stranglers. At the same time there was – here- a strong movement in Portuguese Rock music that had a huge impact in me, with names such as Grupo Novo Rock, UHF, Jafu’Mega, Adelaide Ferreira + Preço Fixo, Lena D’Água & Banda Atlântida, Heróis do Mar, or Rui Veloso & Banda Sonora, António Variações, amongst others… Kept on listening to them to this day.

As for the second, the first instrument I played was Classical Guitar, by the time I was sixteen. I am self-taught, with a little help from friends that also lent me the instruments. Nevertheless, I must confess that after my first experiments I tried classes, just to quit after about six months as It felt completely pointless and I ended up knowing only as much as when I started. After that, all instruments that I am still able to play are always self-taught, except for Bag-Pipes to which I took some classes. My first instruments also included Bass-Guitar and assorted household objects, including gas bottles, cutlery, glasses, bottles, wood and card boxes…

++ Had you been in other bands before Alliallatas? What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded by these bands? 

Yes, indeed I have. I started with Anomeos, which were named Pop Trolha at the very first beginning. I was meant to be the bass player but as I had trouble finding the money to buy one, I had to postpone the idea. So I took the name Pop Trolha with me and started another project (a duet with a friend, Tiago Madureira) based on acoustic guitars, vocals, and assorted percussions (which we both played), and playing a sort of punkish-jazzish & rock’n’roll-ish sound. A home-made tape was recorded, containing three songs from a rehearsal, but alas it’s lost, to my utmost regret… Soon after, though, I rejoined my first creation (that kept on playing) which had already been christened as Anomeos, but this time as rhythm guitarist (and by the end of the band as drummer). This band included, amongst others, and besides me, António ‘Nezinho’ Macedo (guitar), António ‘Batuneira’ Abreu (vocals), with whom I’d be starting my next venture – Restos Mortais de Isabel, and also Hugo Faria (second guitar) and Pedro Ferreira (bass), which I’d be rejoining in Alliallatas. After this band, and with the aforementioned members (the other one being the bass-player, Aníbal Leite), I started the also mentioned Restos Mortais de Isabel, but this time as a drummer and bass player (at some rehearsals). A few months later we three started a side project with a different bass player (Ricardo ‘Formiga’ Ferreira) and a female singer (Kelly), named Ego Mysterium. Only a few months after the end of Restos Mortais de Isabel did I join Alliallatas as a drummer.

As for the other members, except for Hugo Faria (drums) and Pedro ‘Pastel’ Ferreira (bass), who were also in the Anomeos, none of them had been in a previous band, as far as I can remember… António (Tozé) Guedes (rhythm guitar and vocals), Luís ‘Yes’ Guedes (solo guitar) and Eduardo Silva (vocals) were the other members when I joined the band. Prior to that, there had been two other full-time members that I’ve never met: Paulo Monteiro (guitarra braguesa – a traditional northern Portuguese acoustic guitar) and Rui Guimarães (keyboards).

In what recordings are concerned, Pop Trolha did record a three-track home-made tape (as mentioned above), early 1987; Anomeos recorded a rehearsal soon after I joined (as a substitute for Hugo Faria) and an official four-track demo, both by the end of 1988, and two gigs, by early ’89 (which are lost); Restos Mortais de Isabel recorded two demos, one in 1989 (two tracks) and another in1990 (with six tracks), also existing a video live recording of a 1989 live concert; Ego Mysterium recorded two tracks at a rehearsal (that also seem to have been lost). Both Anomeos and Restos Mortais de Isabel have been the object of recent interest, with cd releases by independent labels and collecting most of the recordings, the first ones in 2022 («88-89», through Grey Clover), the second in 2023 («Para Além de Deus, de Deuses e do Destino», through Pós-80’s).

++ Where were you from originally?

The band was from Guimarães, though having changed rehearsing places. As for its members, when I was part of it they all lived within the town’s limits. But please bear in mind that I’ve only joined in when they had more than half a year of existence, though if my memory serves me well Paulo Monteiro was from nearby Braga (a city located about 20 kilometers from here).

++ How was Guimarães at the time of Alliallatas? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Well, it was a nice quiet small town, thank God… About 20.000 inhabitants. So, as you might imagine, there weren’t many venues. Concerts took place at associations, bars, cafes, discos, school gymnasiums, or – especially in the Summer time – in the open air. Nevertheless, from 1988 to 1991, there was an event that gathered local bands, and even encouraged or was the cause for the formation of many, as they knew they had a place (open doors) to play, with the minimum of conditions and exposure in the local press. Called Movimento Jovem (Youth Movement), it was the most exciting thing for local bands. Alliallatas actually played at The Movimento Jovem IV, a mere two months before I was given ‘membership’ though personally both Anomeos and Restos Mortais de Isabel had been part of the first three…

That being said, for such a small city, it had a lot of bands, the surrounding country included. I liked all that I got to see: Bilou Bilou, Os Bispos, Gothicum Repherae, Subúrbios, Defuntos, Moribundos, Ar’Roto, Alma Picada, UhoQueSomtem, Mata Qu’É Bicho, Merdicidas, Quid Novis, Quid Juris, Ritual Profano, Vício Oculto, The Darkness, and those just at the top of my head… Most of them were into Punk, Post Punk, or Gothic Rock, though some also dabbled in Indie Pop or had influences of bands like The Smiths…

As for record stores, for such a small town, we had at least half a dozen where we could purchase those bands that mattered to us… Also those stores used to lend records to the radio shows, which allowed for the promotion of those bands we liked.

++ Were there any other good bands in your area?

Nearby cities, like Braga or Porto, had more thriving scenes, as they were bigger and economically more developed. Bands like Mão Morta, Rongwrong, Baile de Baden-Baden and Orpheu Rebelde (from Braga) or Bramassaji, Ban, Entes Queridos and Alma Dorida were (and still are) instrumental to Portuguese music and had impact, most having played here.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

As I’ve said, when I became part of the outfit, they were already in existence. As far as I know it started with the drummer and one of the guitarists that invited the rest of the members. It was all on the basis of friendship. I, for instance, was invited by the bass player (that I knew from Anomeos). Once we met on a street, started talking and he invited me to go to a rehearsal, which I did. At first, I started as a substitute drummer, for when the other was absent or couldn’t make it. During those rehearsals we started composing new songs and in the meanwhile the original drummer quitted, So I remained there until the end and by 1993, the band came to a halt given birth to As Flores da Náusea…

++ Was there any lineup changes?

Well, Paulo Monteiro and Rui Guimarães left before or by the time of my entrance. Then Hugo Faria left. Finally, Luís Guedes and Pedro Ferreira also quitted being their leaving the main reason for the formation of As Flores da Náusea, which saw Eduardo Silva changing to guitar and welcoming the new membership of a new singer (also called Rui Guimarães, what are the odds!!??) and a new bass player (Pedro Martinho). Actually, As Flores da Náusea’s first song was an Alliallatas’ one, «A Névoa da Manhã Nova».

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

António Guedes (rhythm guitar and vocals) and Luís Guedes (solo guitar) were the main composers (as well as brothers, Luís being the eldest), as far as perceived when arriving at the ‘station’, but all gave their input, contributions, and ideas. One thing I remember, even before entering the show, Pedro was using a bass-line on «Experiências» that incidentally was my first composition for Anomeos, and at the time was called «Nox» but never got the chance to be used (Restos Mortais de Isabel also used that line but never recorded it – needless to say that the results were completely different from the Alliallatas’ one). So, in a kind of twisted way I was there without being… In the rehearsals I took part, someone would present an idea and then we’d work through there, suggesting things and creating our parts.

As to where the band practiced, they started at a local association named Círculo de Arte e Recreio (Circle of Arts and Leisure), but when I joined in, they were already in the place where we remained until the end, including As Flores da Náusea and the following act, Joana Dark. Called Sociedade Musical (Musical Society), it was also another old institution. The band got to rehearse in these places because some of the parents were associates.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

The name, actually, is very punkish. It comes from an Indonesian politician connected with the Timor-Leste situation. So, it made sense, and an ironic one, playing in the «Ao Vivo Por Timor» event. The band started with other names that are forgotten but during a brief period of about a month (late 1991, early 1992 – and before the aforementioned gig), we were named Totus Moriartis (a sort of latinization meaning ‘All Moriarty’), to get away from all that political connotations, but the name didn’t stuck. As a personal note, I prefer the punkish one, probably because I started that way… Totus Moriartis was also the name of an instrumental used to open the live gigs.

++ I don’t think you released any records during your time. Is that so? How come? 

No, no record released, unfortunately. Well, it seems nobody showed interest in us. There was talk of some kind of release through Underground Records, consisting of a track on a 7’’ compilation EP, which also included The Melancholic Youth Of Jesus (who’s mentor owned the label) and a band from Viseu that I can’t remember the name… We actually went to the studio, and paid for the full recording, but only one session went according to plan, so nothing came out of it. The track involved was «A Névoa da Manhã Nova», our latest composition, and it would include a keyboard arrangement for an extended 12’’ version that we rehearsed…

++ Was there no interest from any labels to put out your music? Perhaps there were big labels interested at some point?

Besides the example mentioned above, no other label showed interest, much less majors… But by this time, the band was dissolving and metamorphosing… I often wonder about what would happen if a label would have shown interest in us…

++ I know you had two songs, “Esqueleto” and “Pinture Original”, on a compilation tape called “Breeze 4” that came out in Germany thru the Alphyen Viwit label. Do you remember how did your song got into the tape? Did you send them a demo perhaps?

Well, it came by chance really, as I never contacted the label – never even had heard of it before. What happened was that either through a flyer from tape-swapping or from some friend with a band that put me in contact with Vasco Nogueira, I got to know this Portuguese living in Germany that had a distributor, Urban Records, that was looking for Portuguese material. So, I sent him Anomeos’, Restos Mortais de Isabel’s, and Alliallatas’ demos. As it happens, Michael Witlake from Alphyen Viwit was a friend of his and got hold of our demo through him. Next thing you know, Michael wrote to me and asked for our contribution. And there we were, together with The Melancholic Youth Of Jesus and Cosmic City Blues from here…

++ This tape has many great bands like The Fat Tulips, Les Autres or Sonic Flower Groove, among others. Bands from many European countries. How connected were you to the indiepop scene of the time? Did you have any favourite bands?

I loved all the bands as I always had a wide range of tastes, but actually, my favourite ones were The Laureates, The Balloon Farm, Glaring Surge, New Dawn Fades, and the Fat Tulips. As a curious side-note, I ‘stole’ the title of their contribution to christening one of my projects: The Death Of Me.

There was no connection at all with the European Indie scene, actually… I might sound presumptuous but I was the only one in the band that was really into Indiepop, things like Pastel Coloured Days and each and every single release by Sarah Records… Swapping tapes, reading fanzines…

++ The two songs on this compilation tape came from a 1991 demo tape that included two other songs, “Experiências” an “A Princesa de Neurónios”. Did this demo tape had a name? Were was it recorded? Did you work with a producer?

The demo tape was eponymous, no name besides that of the band. It was recorded here, in Guimarães, at the previously mentioned Círculo de Arte e Recreio. If not mistaken, the producer was Dino Freitas, a local popular musician/producer that had the equipment.

++ And what about other demo tapes? Did you record many? Do you remember which songs were on it? The names of the demo tapes?

Only that demo was released, but the concert for Timor was recorded and released as a free download mp3, during 2008, through Portugal Underground blog, also including the demo-tape. By the way, most of the demos I ever released are available there for free download if you ever get curious or interested…

https://portugalunderground.blogspot.com/2008/04/alliallatas-maquete-1991-ao-vivo-por.html

++ You mention that there was going to be another song of yours on a compilation by Underground Records. I haven’t been able to find any information about this label or any compilations related to this label. Care to tell me more about this? What song of yours was going to be included in it?

As mentioned above, nothing came out of it… The label was fronted by Carlos Santos of The Melancholic Youth Of Jesus but don’t think that it ever released anything… The song registered was «A Névoa da Manhã Nóvoa» (New Dawn’s Mist) in an extended 12’’ version that was supposed to include keyboard arrangements and a long intro… The studio (Reck’n’Roll Studios) might have a copy of the unfinished song but after all these years I pretty much doubt. I do remember that when the studio did publicity of its facilities our name was mentioned in a national newspaper («Blitz» being its name), the only time it ever did.

++ Many years later you would include a live song, “A Névoa Da Manhã Nova (live)”, on a tape called “33 Years of Carrying it On”. This tape is kind of a history of all the music you have been involved with. You’ve been in so many bands. This tape seems to be very rare now, only a few copies were released. Will there be a chance for at some point see a post-humous Alliallatas release?

That tape came out with an autobiographical book baptized as «Como Não Chegar Sequer A Lado Nenhum. Uma Auto-Biografia Que Não Irá A Lado Nenhum (A Primeira Auto-Biografia De Alguém Que, De Facto, Não Chegou A Lado Nenhum Na Música)» [How To Get Nowhere At All. An Autobiography That Will Go Nowhere (The First Autobiography of Someone Who Actually Got Nowhere in Music)]. Originally it was supposed to be a 22 copies edition but as I was celebrating 33 years of being involved in music, I decided to release 33 (hence the title of the tape)… It sold-out a few minutes after being released. As for Alliallatas, there is no more material available to be released as all songs composed were included in the live recording for Timor.

++ And going back to the idea that you didn’t get the chance to release any records. If you had had the chance to put something out. What would you have liked to release? A single? an EP? an album? And why?

All of them as I am a sort of vinyl junkie: a 7’’ for a couple of songs, an EP or 12’’ single for some others (including the extended version I mentioned previously), and the rest as a (M)LP… It could be a 10’’, which I think it’s a lovely format.

++ And aside from the demo songs, are there more recordings by the band waiting to be heard by indiepop fans? Maybe live recordings?

There’s a live concert for Timor, as I mentioned above.

++ My favourite song of yours is “Esqueleto”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

When I joined the band the song was already written and was the group’s hit. Nevertheless instead of answering you will publish the lyrics here so you can interpret, but can tell you that it was about a local character…

Sentado num bar
Estava um esqueleto
Com um manto preto
E os ossos a abanar

Desejava apenas
Um pouco de paz
Pois no fundo era
Um bom rapaz

Gostava de andar
Sempre à boleia
Sendo de borla
Não é má idéia

E tu vai por mim
E assim não há vícios
Vais a todo o lado
E não pagas ao fim

(solo)

Gostava de andar
Sempre à boleia
Sendo de borla
Não é má idéia

O que é preciso
É sabê-las fazer
O melhor da vida
É depois de morrer

E tu vai por mim
E assim não há vícios
Vais a todo o lado
E não pagas ao fim

Sentado num bar
Estava um esqueleto
Com um manto preto
E os ossos a abanar

++ If you were to choose your favorite Alliallatas song, which one would that be and why?

A tough choice but probably I would choose «A Névoa da Manhã Nova», basically because I was involved in its composition, but also because it shows a darker side of the band, mixed with a certain Madchester vibe. The song was used by my next band, As Flores da Náusea, which had a darker sound, verging on Gothic Rock and Post Punk.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Prior to me joining the band, I think that at least three concerts were played, one of them being at the mentioned Movimento Jovem festival, another at the Círculo de Arte e Recreio association… And there was another one – at least – before both of them… After that there were at least another three, the Timor one included.

++ And what were the best gigs that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Probably the Timor one was the best, with good vibes. As for anecdotes, I remember that the day after I had an exam at the university so I just came and went, not being able to enjoy the after-party… In another one I remember that my drumsticks kept flying from my hands due to sweat…

++ On Youtube there is live footage of you playing live in your hometown. It is on a festival called Ao Vivo por Timor that dates from February 1992. Do you remember that gig? Who organized it? What was it about? Any anecdotes you can share? 

Yes, that video is from that gig. However, the sound one can hear is actually the one from the demo tape, not from the soundboard… It was the work of Pedro Martinho, who would become the bass player for both As Flores da Náusea and Joana Dark.

The event was organized by the local town hall and was related with the events that took place in Timor-Leste, with the Massacre of Santa Cruz cemetery, perpetrated by the Indonesian army on local civilians.

Another anecdote is that the mayor was booed off the stage by the public. Some claim that that happened because people thought he might be singing…

++ And were there any bad ones?

Not as far as I can remember…

++ When and why did Alliallatas stop making music? Were any of you involved in any other projects afterwards?

Alliallatas ended during the first half of 1993, immediately giving birth to As Flores da Náusea. Basically, the band ended due to Pedro Ferreira and Luís Guedes leaving the band. António Guedes, Eduardo Silva and I continued playing, though Eduardo changed to guitar and two new members joined on bass (Pedro Martinho) and vocals (Rui Guimarães).

As for the other members – and as far as I know – they never played again in any band. The year following Eduardo and Rui also left so Joana Dark was born, welcoming on board a female singer (Joana) and another guitarist (Rui Dias).

So, after the end of Joana Dark, by 1996, with Pedro Martinho leaving and briefly being replaced by Ricardo Ferreira (that I mentioned that played on the second Restos Mortais de Isabel demo and Ego Mysterium) and António Guedes assuming the leading vocals, I started a series of projects and eventually joining the Pop band Uzi on bass duties and the Dark Folk project Sangre Cavallum (on vocals and assorted percussions) for about one year, while maintaining my solo outfit, Oktober Black. As for António, he started Blue Orange Juice together with Ricardo and a returning Eduardo. Of all these people, as far as I know, only Ricardo – besides me – keeps making music with the project Ant In The Farm. My latest ventures include Archetypo 120 (a Cold Wave band formed with Anomeos’ and Restos Mortais de Isabel’s guitarist, but this time I shifted to lead vocals and guitars) and Oktober Delusion (with Sandro Menino, a Dark Folk/Industrial/Experimental project with us both as multi-instrumentists).

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

At that time, local radios divulged the demo. As for TV, as we had only two national official channels we never stood a chance. Furthermore, the demo was distributed in Germany through Urban Records which led to Viwit contacting us, as I already mentioned.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

The local newspapers showed interest, publishing a few articles.

++ What about fanzines?

Urban Records published a catalogue-fanzine that included an article about Alliallatas, as well as Anomeos and Restos Mortais de Isabel. Alphyen Viwit also released a fanzine concerning their releases

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Well, I guess that it was when I realized that people from abroad showed interest in our art. That was the biggest highlight for the band as it allowed our music to get known in many different countries. Tape-swapping was a huge thing back then so we probably got to more people than we imagine…

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

Reading (more like devouring) books, writing, watching the occasional film or series…

++ I’ve never been to Guimarães so I’d love to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

Well, for starters the Historical Centre and the ‘Sacred Hill’ (the place where the Castle and Palace of the Dukes of Bragança, amongst other monuments, are located). Then there is the Penha Mount Touristic Resort where you can have a great view of the entire region… Then there are pre-Roman ruins in the surroundings… As for food, we have several typical dishes like Cozido à Portuguesa (cabbages, potatoes, carrots, assorted sausages and meats…), Rojões (pork, potatoes, tripe, liver…), several codfish specialties, different kinds of Feijoada (a beans’ dish with meats…), local traditional sweets… For drinks we have several different kinds of wines, one of them being typical from here and existing only in this part of the world, Vinho Verde, not to mention world famous Port Wine… Also several different kinds of typical breads and hams or cheeses…

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Thank you kindly once again for your interest in our work and music. After a time-span of over 30 years one never thinks that a legacy would be kept. Especially when one is as young as we were, no such thoughts occur to our minds.

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Listen
Alliallatas – Esqueleto