Thanks so much to Chris Stevens, Paul McCormick, Iain Bickle and Steve Ashton for the interview! I wrote about The DaVincis some time ago and Chris got in touch. He was also keen to answer my questions and even better, get the rest of The DaVincis to answer them as well. So that’s been really great.
++ Hi Chris! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Still making music?
Chris: Not really, my focus is more on promoting these days. I run a night in Liverpool called Heaven’s Gate that fCSocusses on bringing Americana/Roots/Alt-Country artists to play in the city. My daughter released her second album, Letters Under Floorboards, last year and I did co-write three of the songs on that with her.
Paul: Yes, but mainly confined to the house. I’ve played a couple of solo (electric) gigs in the last year. My wife plays bass, but the prospect of auditioning a drummer terrifies me.
Steve: Yes, still making music, Mugstar has been my commitment for over twenty years now. New releases out this year, but obviously the Covid pandemic has halted gigs for the time being.
Iain: Still making music but infrequently, especially right now. 32 years in Canada and still haven’t done anything as much fun as The DaVincis was.
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?
Paul: That toy ukulele on the cover of the record. There was also a tin banjo, but true to Liverpool form my first “real” guitar was bought as a gift from Hessy’s in Liverpool (where The Beatles bought gear), possibly when I was around 14. It was a frighteningly bad acoustic that had action so high it would have taken Godzilla a bit of effort to hold down a chord. That was accompanied by a Bert Weedon “Play in a Day” book, and the combination of the two put me off playing for years. There was no record player in my house growing up, and I had no older siblings, so my earliest musical memories are of listening to “Sing Something Simple” on the radio on day outings coming back from Blackpool, and crooners on Sunday Night at The London Palladium. The first rock thing I can remember on the tv was seeing The Stones on a Musical Express poll winners concert, dutifully recorded using the family Grundig reel to reel. Don’t know what happened to that, but sadly it disappeared and I never inherited it. I would give pretend gigs in the back garden with my toy guitars and a kiddie golf club as a microphone. The imaginary crowds would go wild, and it was downhill all the way after that.
Chris: My first instrument was a Kay electric guitar with an Audition amp bought from Woolworths (where The Beatles bought pick ‘n’ mix – probably). I learnt a few chords from books and began trying to put them together as something that resembled a tune, usually unsuccessfully, until Punk happened and I realised what you could do with three barre chords. First musical memories are of listening, with my mum, to her mainly Beatles singles at about 5 or 6. While growing up Glam Rock was the first music that I really felt was aimed at me.
Steve: My first instrument was drums – and that’s all I’ve ever played! My dad was a drummer as was his dad before him. I’m self-taught, so, maybe it’s in the blood. Hearing Ian Paice in Deep Purple was what convinced me that I had to do it though. I listened to a lot of stuff that has power and energy. Still do!
Iain: First thing that caught my eye/ears was probably The Beatles. However, it was The Stones and The Who that intrigued me because they didn’t smile all the time like every other fucker in those days. It was definitely Moon that inspired me to take up drums, but it wasn’t until I was 16 in 1973 when I got my first drum set. Piece of crap for £25 but it got me started. A year later I was playing with one of the best local hard rock cover bands. I am self-taught, never took lessons. Just watched and listened to figure stuff out. I listened to a lot of bluesy stuff, John Mayall, Fleetwood Mac (Peter Green days, RIP), Rory Gallagher, Free, Zeppelin. My elder brother turned me onto Beefheart, Edgar Broughton Band, Family and on and on. There was so much in the late sixties/early 70’s. I was never much of a prog rocker really but I like the early Floyd and some of the King Crimson albums.
++ Had you been in other bands before The DaVincis? I read about The Dream Play, were you all in that band? How did it sound like? Were any of you involved in any other bands? Are there any recordings?
Chris: No, other than with friends that never got further than the bedroom. Paul and I started the band as The Dream Play but changed the name to The DaVincis on the day of Live Aid. The band then still had Faith Moore on drums and Martin Smith on guitar. Martin left to be replaced by Martin Ward and then Faith was replaced by Iain Bickle. From then on, The DaVincis WERE The DaVincis.
Paul: My first band was The Jetsons where I played bass, rather badly at first, to the extent that I screwed up one song at my first gig so badly that the singer attempted to apologise by exposing my inexperience and causing me to experience mortifying embarrassment. They were a sort of dark, poppy mod band fronted by a spotty Elvis Costello lookalike, and he actually wrote some good songs – I could hum a few right now. Went on to play bass in a power-pop band fronted by Faith Moore (later to become our first drummer) who were originally called The Allumettes. Some of her songs were amazingly catchy, but we consigned ourselves to obscurity by seemingly changing the band’s name every fortnight.
Steve: I played for a few heavy rock / metal bands early on and later I was in Liverpool band Waving at Trains. That band had gelled for a while, but the old “musical differences” were starting to set in, then I saw an ad up on the wall in Vulcan Studios: “The DaVincis require Drummer”.
Iain: Several bar bands, all part of learning to play. Rock, blues, folk rock, punk, anything to get experience. Bit of a drum slut I guess! First bands in Liverpool were The Fire and Big Momma Hill blues band. The latter played regularly at Ye Cracke on Sunday’s. That was a blast, room full of students who couldn’t handle their ale. 1982 was when I moved to Liverpool from Cumbria. I met Dave Wibberley (The Fire) who was trying to put a band together. I got a demo from him then I went for a holiday in Amsterdam. When I got back he’d been trying to get hold of me because we had a gig. I thought it was nuts seeing as how we’d never actually played together. I asked where the gig was and he said, “The Royal Court, two nights opening for The Jam”. Bit bonkers but that was my introduction and what an opportunity. I was a big fan and it also turned out to be their final tour.
As The Fire we did a Peel Session and one for Cheggers’ sister, whatever her name is? (Janice Long – Chris).
I did some other work with The Third Man. More of a pop, soul-ish kinda thing.
++ Where were you from originally?
Paul: Liverpool. Born in Old Swan, grew up in Childwall, moved to Aigburth
Steve: I’m Liverpool born, I work in Liverpool and my current band is based in Liverpool. Although I’ve lived in Chester for a good while now.
Iain: I’m from County Durham but moved to Ulverston near the Lake District when I was seven.
Chris: Born in Walton, Liverpool and grew up, and still live in, Kirkby on the outskirts of the city.
++ How was Liverpool at the time of The DaVincis? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
Chris: Liverpool was a pretty grim place through the 70s and into the 80’s. Music and Football were seen to be the only hope of escaping the drudgery. But, in some ways, it had more character than it does now if you knew where to look. Bars, clubs, venues, record and clothes shops all associated with the musical ‘underground’ that helped make you feel you were outside of the everyday life of the city. The regeneration of Liverpool that started towards the end of the 80s was focussed around closing a lot of those places down and developing mainstream retail and leisure opportunities. Liverpool is a far brighter and vibrant city these days, but I do kind of miss the grottiness of those times.
Paul: The eternal Probe Records was still going, Pink Moon obviously. Penny Lane records had a shop in town in addition to its original location. They were nice people, I worked there for a while too, but they were never seen to be a “cool” shop. Virgin was still around then as well. I think we had more fun watching heavy metal cover bands in The Cumberland after practices than in some of the dives that put gigs on. We’d always go and see our friends in Jactars, Barbel, and Crikey It’s The Cromptons when we could.
Steve: Liverpool had been through some tough times. At the time I joined The Davincis the city was about to begin its regeneration, with the renovation of the Albert Dock and opening the Tate Gallery for example. We played alongside some great Liverpool bands like Barbel and Jactars. Drive were one of my favourites. The legendary Probe Records was going then – and still is now.
++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?
Paul: I wanted to play guitar and had started singing and writing. Chris was a friend of my old bandmates in The Allumettes (etc) and they set up a meeting of like minds I suppose… the rest is history. Original drummer Iain was a friend of a friend who he played with in blues and cover bands, and he was an incredible drummer right off the bat, so we didn’t have to do auditions, thank god. Martin Smith answered an ad… Martin Ward was a friend of Andy Jones’ from Birkenhead. Steve I think answered an ad.
Chris: Like Paul says, we were introduced by mutual friends who I guess saw some common ground in both our desire to be in a band and our extremely limited musical ability! A perfect match. And I think it was as it happened because we worked well together from the off, didn’t feel intimidated by each other’s ability and we started to develop pretty quickly. There was a connection right off that made me believe something good would come out of it.
I do remember auditioning other drummers after Iain left and being gobsmacked by how bad/weird some were. Steve was clearly a great drummer but also on the same wavelength as us as a person. That was an important factor in his recruitment.
Iain: I first met Paul after seeing an ad. We had a couple of pints in The Grapes on Matthew Street and I got a rough live demo from him. I could tell it was more what I was looking for which was more guitar focused. The first practice sealed it, I could tell on a personal and musical level it was going to work.
++ How was the creative process for you?
Paul: 1: Drink (coffee or beer in copious amounts), 2: smoke a pack of fags, 3: attack typewriter. 4: record ideas on boombox before they go away. Take ideas to band. Ignore suggestions for changing them. Notably, sometimes Chris would have a ready to go riff that I’d put words to and change the structure to fit. Don’t think we ever “jammed” out ideas, probably because I’m not really that accomplished musically.
Chris: I loved how the songs would come together, from a basic structure of Paul’s we would play them over until they clicked, everyone contributing their own ideas. And when they did click it was such a rush. I don’t recall there ever being any real arguments about how things should go or what anyone should or shouldn’t be playing.
Steve: Mostly Paul would arrive with songs in an embryonic form as far as I remember. Long – but enjoyable – Saturday afternoon practices would be where we thrashed them through, working out the pace, feel, dynamics and final structures.
++ I read you usually practiced at Vulcan Studios? Is that right? How was this Vulcan Studios scene, who were part of it? You even appeared on a compilation called “Ways to Wear Coats – A Compilation from Vulcan Studios”, did they give you free recording time for recording the song “The Book”?
Paul: Wasn’t that kind of studio, purely rehearsals, although at one point someone tried to set up a recording studio there. We did some earlier demos there, but before it disappeared its claim to fame was that the first Half Man Half Biscuit album was recorded in it. The Book was part of a 4 song demo we did at SOS studios in Liverpool.
Chris: Vulcan studios is still going to this day and over the years has been a crucial part of the Liverpool music scene. It is and has always been cheap, cheerful and welcoming to one and all (unlike some of the more trendy/expensive rehearsal rooms).
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
Paul: Just one of many ideas from my little black book – my memory of the name brainstorming session was that it was after a practice session at The Vulcan, and we all repaired to The Villiers pub in the city centre (a fine old pub now sadly demolished as part of an anonymous shopping mall). It was the day of Live Aid, and we stopped our deliberations as Bowie came on. The name that nobody absolutely detested at that point was The DaVincis, and thus history was made. I suppose it was my idea, but I was never 100% happy with it, too open to misspellings!
Chris: My memory is very much as Paul’s but, I seem to remember we all had a different first choice and The DaVincis was everybody’s second choice. I did come to really like it but hated it when people called us Da Vincis aaargh!
++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
Paul: That would be telling. I think we all had a sound in our heads that we wanted it to sound like, but it came out sounding unlike anything else. Beatles, Stones, Velvet Underground, Byrds, early UK punk… I suppose we were listening to a lot of American guitar bands/college rock/indie bands at the time. When anyone would ask what we sounded like, for a reference point I usually said somewhere between REM and The Replacements. This usually didn’t help.
Chris: Martin and I loved English bands such as Mott The Hoople, The Only Ones, T.Rex, The Clash as well as the American guitar bands of the time so, I always thought our sound was quite a unique mixture of the two. Far more American sounding than any of our Liverpool contemporaries but with English sensibilities that weren’t derived from the old 60s Merseybeat sound.
++ Your first release, the mini-album “Eating Gifted Children”, came out in 1988 on Pink Moon Records. Of course I would love to know how did you end up on this label? How was your relationship with them and with the great bands on the label like The Jactars or Barbel?
Iain: So far as I recall Andy came out to see us play and he became a fan. He offered to assist financing the recording but maybe Paul and Chris remember more about that?
Paul: Our friend Andy Jones ran a record shop of that name in town. He wanted to put out something by us, so the eponymous label was born. Jactars and Barbel also practiced at The Vulcan, and we’d often play gigs together and go drinking, all good friends.
Chris: At the time nearly every band in Liverpool was either jingly-jangly 60s influenced or were trying to be the next A-Ha. It seemed natural that us and bands like Barbel, Jactars would fall in together. Musically we were different, but we all hated plastic pop, poseurs and bullshit. We got on so well that it became a social thing too. Andy, unlike most of the Liverpool ‘scene’, shared our way of thinking and saw us as good friends and great bands. He helped with the releases and gave us all the opportunity to release our music on a ‘label’, but there was never any contracts involved.
++ This release, and also the second one, wasn’t recorded at Vulcan Studios but at Amazon Studios. Wondering why the change?
Paul: Just a real professional studio. Many big names recorded there. Also, it was closer to Chris’ house so he didn’t have such a long bus ride.
Chris: We’d done numerous demos in smaller, cheaper studios with the results never being wholly satisfactory. We knew that for our first release we needed it to sound as good as possible. Amazon had a great reputation.
++ Another thing that caught my attention were the runout etchings, they say “1234 Sun Ray Lamp!!” and “Strings for Breakfast”. Care telling me the story behind that?
Paul: I have absolutely no recollection of this. I always loved the cryptic etchings on Stiff records so it may have been inspired by that… if so, it was too bloody cryptic for me to remember now. I have never owned a sun ray lamp.
Chris: No idea. Not sure I’ve ever even noticed that before you mentioned it. Possibly something to do with the guys that mastered or manufactured it?
++ And do tell, who is the kid on the front cover photo?
Iain: It’s a very young Jimi Hendrix obviously!
Paul: That’s me in the stable yard of my great grandparents’ house in Old Swan. Years ahead of my time, I anticipated both the ukulele trend of the 2000s and, also Elvis Costello’s first album cover stance.
++ On the 12″ single “Pull” that came out the same year, I notice on the credits that now Steve Ashton is the drummer. When did the change happen? And what did Steve bring to the band?
Paul: Don’t ask me about dates, but Iain moved to Canada for love, and the airfare was prohibitive for practicing. Steve was a little more straight ahead, great timekeeper as was Iain, but not so likely to play the drum part from the middle of “Whole Lotta Love” in practice, or to hit a crash cymbal just as you were walking 6 inches away from it. Also, a certain level of sobriety.
Iain: I left Liverpool due to marrying a Canadian girlfriend. It was a very tough decision and could have gone either way. It would have been nice for her to move to England but starting married life with a skint musician isn’t the best move. I’m happy they found Steve although we’ve never met.
Chris: Iain left at the end of May 1988 and we auditioned throughout June and into July. Steve joined mid-July. I always think of Iain’s time in the band as our Replacements phase. Particularly early on, gigs were often chaotic, alcohol fuelled and spattered with irreverent covers. By the time he left we had already started to get a bit more serious about what we were doing, just wanting to be as good a band as possible. Steve joining helped consolidate that. Musically it was pretty seamless, one great drummer for another. I always feel like I was a bit spoiled to play with two such drummers so early on. I have on occasion had difficulties playing with other drummers who were not so instinctively good.
++ This wasn’t the only time there were changes in the band right? I read that in 1989 there were even more changes. What was happening at the time? Was life getting in the way of the band members?
Paul: Guitarists? Well, Martin was seemingly more interested in playing straight punk music and began moonlighting with a local hardcore band, which led to his exit. We never really settled on a replacement and at the time I wasn’t really strong enough to carry things on my own if I’m being honest, though we did a few gigs as a three-piece.
Chris: I kind of wish Martin was here to give his take on this. He did seem to lose his focus and not be as committed as he had previously been. This caused issues that ultimately led to us parting ways in July 1989. I’ve always felt an element of regret regarding this and wish we’d have at least made a real effort to resolve things. At the time it felt like we were setting ourselves up for the next phase, hopeful for a new, better era. In hindsight it was, for me, the beginning of the end of the band.
Steve: After Martin had left, we got Mike James in. Mike was based in North Wales, he was the first guitarist I ever played with and we also got together again a little later on. We were getting a lot of really promising material together – just guitar and drums – but unfortunately never found the right people to complete the line-up. I knew just how good a player he was. So, contacted him and he was in the line-up for the German tour.
Chris: We did audition a few guitarists after Martin left but most just didn’t get what we were about or, the better ones, were too committed to their own projects. Mike James was the closest to what we needed, a little too metal at first but he did adapt quite well. We took him to Germany with us, it was great fun so when we got back we offered and he accepted the job. The next thing in the diary was our end of year piss-up so we invited him along. He didn’t show up and as far as I’m aware, except for Steve, none of us ever saw him again.
++ Was there any interest from other labels? Perhaps big labels?
Paul: If for interest you can insert “the run around” then yes. London Records seemed keen for a while.
Chris: Lots of gigs where record company reps were supposed to attend but, more often than not didn’t even turn up. EMI did request a demo and we sent the first Peel Session – I still have the rejection letter they sent back.
++ You appeared on a compilation tape called “Merseyside Musicians Bureau”. Who put this together? And how did you end up on it?
Paul: This has come up in other online articles, and I’ve never heard of this tape or seen an actual copy.
Chris: Similarly, I’ve read of this in other articles but never seen a copy. MMB were a short-lived promotion company with their own magazine. We did a gig with them at Planet X towards the end of 1987 and they were awful. We played a great gig with lots of people there to see us but the guys from MMB seemed to take a dislike to us. The atmosphere was bad and their attitude was really childish. Martin ended up in a fight with one of the guys. Can only assume the tape was a giveaway with their mag but we were never asked by MMB if they could include the track.
++ Also there was another tape called “D.O.A. – Brochure Two” which I learned that it was put together by Definite Option Agency, a music press based in Liverpool. Did they represent you? Or what was the deal between the band and them?
Paul: DOA was an agency started by Andy Harding of another local band, The Vernons (also Vulcan alumni). They were putting together tours of Germany and this tape was just their showreel, not a commercial venture. We ended up going there, Andy was the driver/tour manager, and a good time was had by all.
++ Lastly in 2018 there was a new interest in the band thanks to two compilations on Cherry Red, two boxsets. Was wondering if have you ever thought of releasing your back catalogue at some point?
Chris: The Cherry Red releases came about from Dave Morgan (Jactars) passing me the contact details for the guy putting the ‘Revolutionary Spirit’ compilation together. He initially wanted to use Thomas Wolfe but as that was the only song of ours already available on YouTube I sent him a copy of Eating Gifted Children asking if he’d choose something else. He loved the album and went for When You’re In instead.
Soon after, the head of Cherry Red contacted me asking to include Thomas Wolfe on the C89 compilation he was putting together. I sent him the Pull 12” hoping he’d choose something off that but he was adamant that he wanted TW.
Paul: I’d love to, but the tapes are all over the place, and we didn’t have the money back then to buy the BBC sessions to use for our own release… I suppose they’re still somewhere in Maida Vale, possibly in the bargain bin, so who knows? I think the masters of the records may have been stolen from a friend’s house when he was looking after my stuff when I moved to America.
Chris: It would be great to see the mini album and single available on one record along with the Peel Sessions and a couple of unreleased tracks. I do have some of the master reels in my loft but then, you have to wonder, would anyone be interested?
++ And are there more songs recorded by the band that remain unreleased?
Paul: A few that I like… “This is what we look like” which was recorded at NIRA in Manchester, and “Never Turn Away” from a session in New Brighton’s Station House studio both spring to mind. “Ava Gardner” should have been on the record. I keep asking myself why we didn’t just do a full album.
Chris: The Station House demo has a pretty good Happens Every Time on it (once described by Radio Merseyside as, “The Undertones over America”!). Quite a few songs that didn’t even make it to demo stage though were played a lot live. I guess it was finances that held us back from a full album. I seem to remember us feeling like we had to have something out right then and we just couldn’t afford the studio time to record an albums worth.
++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Thomas Wolfe”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?
Paul: I could claim literary pretensions here, but I’ll be honest, even though I had read a couple of his novels and enjoyed them, they were hard going (over 700 pages!). The line which mentions his name is really an admission of defeat in that it’s much easier to read a James Bond novel in bed when you’re tired. I suppose the same would apply if I’d called it Tom Wolfe, if a little less so.
Chris: Based on one of my riffs though, to be honest, I was thinking more of The Fall when I came up with it and it ended up, to great effect, almost a country song!
++ If you were to choose your favorite The DaVincis song, which one would that be and why?
Paul: Probably “Thoughtless” for the good memories of how we’d play it live and, shall we say, go on a bit in the middle. “Ava Gardner” is the tearjerker though.
Chris: Thoughtless was a great song to play live, you never knew quite where it would end up. Something Missing was the first song Paul and I worked on together so that will always be special for me. It stayed in the set pretty much for the whole time we played. I love When You’re In.
Steve: Hard to pick just one really, I do like “Thomas Wolfe”, I enjoyed the energy rush of tracks like “This is what we look like” and “Safe locked alone”. “On and on” was really good too and some of the new things we were working on as the band finished were shaping up interestingly as well. Playing live, “Thoughtless” was always an adventure. Absolutely great to play, it has a push and release of tension, with an extended section that changed from night to night.
Iain: Hmm, Thoughtless I think., love the guitars. However, I think Chris Said bounces along nicely, a little funkier rhythmically.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
Paul: Probably too many. We loved playing, but looking back may have done too many crappy ones that didn’t really get us anywhere and destroyed the mystique…
Chris: Early days was all about Liverpool and we did way too many that were not right for us but, it was those gigs that probably helped us to develop into the band we became. We always did them in our own inimitable fashion and had great fun doing so.
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Paul: The Moon Club in Bristol was a good one, a full house which was mainly there for the Acid House disco after, but we won them over. Lots of drunken covers, and the owner thought we were ace too, actually asked us if we were Replacements fans, which we took as a huge compliment at the time. We never got to play there again, the disco took over. There was a good one at the World Downstairs which was a short-lived venue at the big bar underneath the Royal Court Theatre in Liverpool, another good crowd who I think were actually there to see us. And the bizarre gig at a bullring in the South of France.
Chris: Loved travelling abroad to play, you seemed to be treated way better than at home. Supporting the Stone Roses in Warrington was a good one. There was a real buzz just starting about them at the time and the place was crammed. We’d walked in on their soundcheck and thought they were shite. We played really well that night and had the crowd with us all the way. The DJ played some of our stuff afterwards and there was lots of dancing. Then, the Roses played and it was crazy, we witnessed the beginning of the phenomenon they became. For us with our American influences, their rise was probably a nail in our coffin.
Loved playing the Fresher’s Ball at Bristol Poly with The James Brown Allstar Band (The man himself was in prison for drug and assault charges). Del Amitri were also on the bill and, a young comedian who looked so woeful and downtrodden that we felt sorry for him. During Del Amitri’s set we raided their rider to give to the young comedian in an attempt to cheer him up. So, who was this comedian? None other than the now famous Jack Dee who has made a career out of looking woeful and downtrodden.
Steve: The most memorable for me were our excursions into Europe. Playing in an ancient amphitheatre in Beziers in the south of France, a crazy bus and train journey as a three piece to play a festival near Elsloo in the south of Holland. Of course, the tour of Germany was great. It was December, so absolutely freezing, but we had four nights in Darmstadt, then toured until the final show in Berlin. This was about two weeks after The Wall had come down (actually, at that time, just small sections broken through). So, the morning following the show, we were up early, walking through misty, foggy streets until we got to see The Wall and the people crossing from East to West at the Brandenburg Gate. We then had to leave for the long drive back to the UK.
++ And were there any bad ones?
Paul: Too many where we travelled hundreds of miles only to perform for a man and his dog… a Vulcan package gig at a big pub in London was particularly disappointing. We went there being led to believe there would be a big crowd, but it was the old story of all the bands basically playing for each other, and there were arguments over the running order. At the end of that one I stomped off after petulantly flinging my (extremely heavy) telecaster into the air over my shoulder and narrowly missing decapitating the drummer by inches.
Chris: Oh yes, and for many different reasons. Poor crowds, (our) dodgy equipment, bad PAs and/or sound engineers (or complete lack of either), double bookings etc etc etc.
Steve: I’m sure they weren’t all amazing, but at this distance I think the memory has blanked any bad ones out!
++ When and why did The DaVincis stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?
Paul: Probably it was a combination of not being able to find a suitable guitarist, and just a feeling of banging my head against a wall with booking worthwhile gigs. The constant rejections and just being messed around started to get depressing. I handed my gig calling log to Chris after I left the country, and I think he was surprised at the amount of calls I’d been making, to very little effect. Our timing wasn’t good – it was the time when venues were giving up on live bands and going for the safe/cheaper/more lucrative option of Acid House discos.
Chris: Our last gig was as a three piece at the Cosmos Club in Liverpool in March 1990. It wasn’t played as a last gig, it just happened to be it. I don’t think we ever officially announced the end of the band but, soon after that Paul moved to New York and the band just ceased to be.
++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?
Paul: I formed Sumac with my wife Vikki on bass and a workmate of hers, Dave Milsom, on drums. My playing had improved to the point where operating as a three piece sounded good. We played a few gigs in and around New York, recorded a three song demo, but fate struck when the drummer moved to the West Coast. I didn’t have the energy to find a replacement again.
Steve: At the time Paul moved to the U.S., both Chris and I did university courses (separate courses and universities), but we continued meeting up frequently and worked on new material. Chris had switched to playing guitar and when our courses were done, we formed Cicada Falls with Paul Cunningham and Will Rees. We recorded a few sessions and played across the UK, mainly the north west. As that band folded I started Mugstar with Adrian R. Shaw. The intention from the off was to attempt something different musically. Both Martin and Chris played a part in the early line-ups of the band – although not at the same time – and appear on some of the very early recording sessions. Mugstar continues to this day.
Chris: Steve and I stuck together and formed Cicada Falls with me eventually swopping to guitar. I then played bass for a couple of years with Mugstar, again with Steve. After that I reunited with Martin and played bass with Rattlebus. I left Rattlebus and they continued without me until Martin left. The rest of the band then continued as Mudcat Landing and I joined them some time after as guitarist.
After The DaVincis Martin had a spell playing bass with punk band MDM. He then formed a band called Cellophane in which he took lead vocals for the first time. He played guitar with garage rockers Burning Eyes for a while and then formed Rattlebus. It was Martin that invited me to play bass with them. Rattlebus continued for a good few years after I left. He was making and releasing music until not long before his recent death. He had recently released a solo acoustic album under the name Steriledog and also a CD of a project called The Delion Pool that had been picking up excellent reviews and had been featured on a number of programs on BBC Radio 6 Music.
++ Has there been any The DaVincis reunion?
Paul: Just the one at The Slaughterhouse pub in Liverpool in… date, Chris? A success apart from the fact that the stage appeared to be covered in cooking oil, and we weren’t really that kind of band.
Chris: No idea of the date other than it was summer 2002. It was a great evening with all our at the time bands playing as well so, Steve played with Mugstar, Me and Martin played with Rattlebus, Paul played with Sumac (his wife on bass and Steve playing drums) and then Paul, Steve, Martin and myself took to the stage as The DaVincis.
Iain: There was one but unfortunately, I wasn’t part of it being stuck in the Colonies. I would have loved to do one but with the recent unfortunate passing of Martin that boat has sailed.
++ Did you get much attention from the radio? You did record two Peel Sessions, how was that experience? Did you meet John Peel? Any anecdotes you could share?
Paul: Doing the sessions was a great experience, but the highpoint of all that was just hearing him on the radio say “we must get them in for a session soon” after he’d played “The Book” on his show one night. No, never met him, possibly spoke to him on the phone once. Our name is up there in the top left corner of the covers of those 12” Peel Sessions records that came out, next to Sham 69 if I recall. The biggest regret is that we never really capitalized on being able to use them as a push for selling records. We just didn’t have the organization to have them in the shops when we’d been broadcast. And it was a huge wakeup call that doing a Peel session didn’t automatically mean more success in booking gigs. Promoters still hadn’t heard of us.
Steve: As Martin has very sadly passed away recently, we’ve been looking back and discussing our times together with him. I posted the second Peel Session up on YouTube and listening to that again brought a few moments back. Recording a Peel session was very much a live affair, with very little in the way of overdubs – still a great way to capture what a band truly is. During the third verse of “Eating gifted children”, the guitars drop back leaving the bass and drums to carry the rhythm. Martin was free to cut loose for those few bars and improvise alongside Paul’s vocal. This was to be an overdub. Martin had two passes, Chris, Paul and I were in the control room with engineer – Mike Robinson – and Mike was content he’d got it, but Martin was set to go again for a third attempt. The tape was rolling and – as the point hit – the live room of studio MV4 was filled with a howl of feedback. Martin swerved and steered the sound before chiming into the strings lifting the tension to run into the final chorus. Mike turned to us with a look of uncertainty and puzzlement, but we were all like “Yes! that’s brilliant, that’s the one, that’s the one!”
Iain: Peel sessions were great. I did The Fire and The DaVincis in the same studio at Maida Vale. Both produced by Dale Griffin which was very cool. Nice thing is you get paid, get airplay and some quality demos out of it. Also eating in the BBC canteen celebrity spotting and kicking Dalek’s arses (do they have arses?) because they take too long deciding.
Chris: Great experience recording the Peel Sessions though we never got to meet the great man. Was exciting that the first was produced by Dale Griffin aka Buffin, drummer with Mott The Hoople. In the BBC canteen with actors Patrick Troughton (Dr Who) and Patricia Hayes (Edna The Inebriate Woman). My usual Peel Session anecdote involves recording the whole first session sat on the floor due to a horrific hangover from the night before. But I much prefer Steve’s. Peel also played our records a lot in the weeks after they were released. Liz Kershaw also played us.
++ What about TV? You did put together a promo video for “Pull”, did that get much air time?
Paul: I never saw it but apparently it was on a Welsh local station late one night! We sent copies to the few national music shows that were around at the time, but with no takers. We really liked “Snub TV” and that was a real downer that they weren’t interested.
Chris: It was shown on Transmission which was a cool latenight ITV show and on a latenight music/culture program produced by BBC Wales that I can’t remember the name of.
++ Who made the video by the way? And where was it recorded?
Paul: Martin Smith, who was our Martin before the other Martin. He’d been doing an audio-visual course and shot it in the cellar at the Vulcan.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
Iain: Fashion magazines were all over us.
Paul: A few reviews, but no articles were forthcoming. We were disappointed that some local writers who did work for the national music press didn’t take the opportunity to big us up a little and promote a local band. The fanzines did right by us.
Chris: Tim Peacock at Sounds was a fan and supportive with reviews.
++ What about from fanzines?
Paul: See above. I think fanzines were on the way out as we were on the way in though.
Chris: There was a local fanzine called Faith In Pleasure that really supported us, The Lozenge, Blast Off. We were in an Aussie Fanzine called Party Fears. I seem to remember receiving a postcard from a guy who did a fanzine in Japan. By the mid 80s a lot of people with fanzines had taken up roles writing for the national music papers.
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
Paul: Making a record. As a music fan, just finally seeing an actual record with your name on it.
Steve: Recording a Peel Session… The European shows…
Chris: Making and having our own record for me. At the time though it did reach a point were things felt they were constantly moving upwards, albeit slowly, and we were achieving a lot of new things together. Musically it was the best time of my life and I’m ultra-proud of everything we did.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
Paul: Wheel of Fortune and Jeopardy are my two guilty pleasures on TV. I acquire a lot of books, but Moby Dick is still way down in the pile under the Ian Flemings.
Iain: I take in rescue dogs. Very satisfying. Not really a hobby but very good for the soul.
Chris: I know that’s still music related but, I see my role as a promoter as my hobby, there certainly isn’t any money to be made in it! But I get to put on music I like and meet lots of musicians, most of whom are sound and, I’ve made lots of friends through it. It is also very time consuming.
++ Never been to Liverpool so would love to hear your recommendations as a local, what sights one shouldn’t miss? Food and drinks one should try?
Paul: Am I still a local? I’d recommend a few of the old man’s pubs I used to drink in…places with minimal noise and TVs. The Tate gallery is wonderful, and I always go on the ferries when I’m back. Chris’ chip shop in Aigburth has a place in my heart and arteries.
Steve: The Tate Gallery, Probe Records – which is now located at the Bluecoat arts centre, and 81 Renshaw is a great place: bar / record shop / venue.
Chris: Traditional Liverpool food is a kind of stew called Scouse which you can get in a couple of grand pubs, The Ship And Mitre and, The Baltic Fleet. 81 Renshaw is a cool bar, venue, vinyl record shop and is where I do my Heaven’s Gate nights.
Lots of Beatles stuff if that’s your thing though I would recommend swerving Mathew Street, there’s nothing original left there and is usually full of extremely drunken people. Ferry over the Mersey to Seacombe and then see the Liverpool waterfront at night – beautiful. The two Cathedrals either end of Hope Street, both stunning yet completely different. Anfield to witness the greatest football team in the world! The Tate, The Walker Art Gallery and the Liverpool Life Museum.
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
Paul: Is this building up to a comeback tour of Japan?
Steve: Looking back it was a great time. I enjoyed the energy of playing those shows, discovering bands like Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Jr., Husker Du etc., and playing a gig with My Bloody Valentine! The emerging The DaVincis tracks were really getting somewhere too. Shame it couldn’t have continued.
Christopher: Thank you for asking us.
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Listen
The DaVincis – Thomas Wolfe
