May
Thanks so much to Elizabeth and Mark for the interview! I was planning to write a piece about them but then I found that they were very active on Facebook. So I thought better contact them and see if they would be willing to tell me their story. And yes! They did! So here it is! It is important to note that the band is also active not just on Facebook. They have their own website (something rare these days!) and of course their songs are on Bandcamp.
++ Hi Elizabeth and Mark! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? I see you are still active on Facebook but are you still making music?
Mark: Yes, we continue to record on and off. We live on opposite sides of the USA, so usually we send material back and forth until we’ve got enough material that holds together as an album. Then Liz comes over to the West coast for a week or 10 days and we record all the vocals. Then I spend months making it all sound good! We’re currently finishing up a mainly acoustic album. Half the songs are complete and mixed and there’s 6 or 7 to finish off that have the vocals recorded, I just need to do overdubs.
Elizabeth: I was picking up the guitar a bit but these days I am more interested in the Keyboard. I can put headphones on and not disturb the neighbors!
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?
Mark: I remember as a toddler listening to the radio in my parents’ kitchen in the late 1960’s. Beatles, Beach Boys whatever was in the UK charts at the time. My parents were not big on music so we didn’t have a record player until I was 7 or 8. I started buying records when I was about 10. The first album I bought was the first Boston album because I was obsessed with sci-fi and I liked the cover, I had no idea what the music sounded like. But I’ve still got it.
As for learning: I had a gap year between finishing school and going to University (1983-84), and I set myself the task of learning guitar in those 12 months. I bought a cheapo Yamaha 12 string from a friend thinking, if I can play this, 6 strings will be easy! How wrong I was. I’ve never had lessons; I just picked things up as I went along. Nowadays I have a fairly idiosyncratic style which makes it difficult to play with other people. I don’t read music, or know scales. I just do what sounds good to my ears.
Elizabeth: My first musical instrument I guess was the piano. We had a really nice Mason Hamlin in our NY apartment and I was able to practice whenever I could. When I was a baby I apparently banged on the keys to such an extent the tips of the ivory chipped. Not very patient I suppose. I played recorder, had three months with the Violin and Clarinet. Still Piano I guess was the most obvious choice for me. Still I can’t read sheet music try as I might. I’m pretty good at playing by ear give or take a few hundred notes.
++ Had you been in other bands before Evergreen Dazed? If so, how did all of these bands sound? Are there any recordings?
Mark: I’ve been in bands since I started at university in 1984. The first one was with my housemates. None of us could play very well so we used to improvise in the basement and record it on a boom box. It’s terrible, but I still have the tapes. There was student band night in May 1986, so we learned 6 obscure indie covers and played them in front of 800 students. We weren’t very good, but that was my first gig! After university I was in a slew of bands with my friends back where I grew up in Leicester UK. I had an electric guitar and a Boss drum machine, another friend had drums, another had a bass and bought a 4 track recorder, and that’s where I learned my songwriting and recording chops. That would be 1987-91. I played gigs and there are loads of 4 track recordings, one or two are on youtube/soundcloud but none of them will ever be officially released. One of my oldest friends from this time is Neil Carlill who went on to be in Delicatessen and have brief UK chart success in indie supergroup Lodger. We grew up in the same village and I was in the same school year as his brother for a while until their parents sent them off to Catholic school. We were in bands together on and off for 5 years until we went our respective ways.
Elizabeth: Before I met Mark I was playing in three bands in London- Funk, Jazz and Cover Band. I was sure I wanted to sing but not exactly what kind of genre. When I saw Marks advert in Melody Maker I was immediately interested and I dropped my other projects as I was going up to Syston on weekends as well as “studying” at University College London.
When I got back to New York I focused on Jazz because it was very familiar from childhood. I started out singing with a piano player Gary Pace at the Village Gate in the East Village which used to be pretty famous for jazz. I am a big fan of the Jazz singers like Nina Simone and Julie London. Again this is probably due to my father’s influence.
I went to Tokyo for a brief stint to teach English basically- well that’s my cover story. I actually played some gigs with two separate friends. I remember we played at two places “Scruffy Murphy’s” and “Heaven’s Door”. I wasn’t really sure where that road was going so I was happy to hear that Mark was still open to writing more music in SF. Then I met the man who became my husband. On our first date he wore all black, took me to a music venue and says he loved New York. We moved back to New York together and still here now.
After coming back to New York I played with the guitarist Gustavo Lattore – we played gigs in the East Village – covers of Evergreen Dazed as well as other songs we both liked. I played some with Bill Steely as well for about ten years.
++ What about the other members?
Mark: None. Although for a gig in 1998 my friend Jeff Wachhorst played bass for us.
++ Where were you from originally?
Mark: I grew up in a village called East Goscote in Leicestershire UK. I lived there from 1968-1992. I bounced around for 3 years until I emigrated the USA in 1995. I’ve lived in the bay area ever since.
Elizabeth: Originally born and raised in NYC. Manhattan.
++ You’ve been based in many cities, but most of your records were released while based where? Why did this city made you more prolific? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
Elizabeth: Most of our music was made in SF as that is where Mark has been living since 1995. He has all the gear so I was happy to work there. SF is a nice respite from NYC. It’s pretty and reminds me of Italy with all the hills and peach colored roof tops.
I think we agree on some indie bands like Dead Can Dance, and The Cocteau Twins which I first heard when I met someone from SF living in NYC.
++ How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?
Mark: I put an advert for a female singer in Melody Maker (UK music magazine) in 1991. I had a few people audition, but as soon as I heard Liz, I knew she’d be perfect.
Elizabeth: When I went to London I definitely had a mission. Although I was attending University College London, I was also in a number of bands. One was Funk with Graeme Mac Mahon. I was also in a cover band and a jazz duo with a Phil Wheeler. But I was looking for someone to write music with and answered an Ad in Melody Maker. Mark mentioned that he was influenced by the Cocteau Twins so I was immediately interested in that sound. When he sent me his first cassette I was pretty blown away by his guitar tracks. He has an incredible sense of harmony and melody -both of which I love.
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
Mark: We don’t practice together; we come up with music and ideas separately, pool them, by sending tapes/files back and forth and see what works. I do 90% of the music, Liz does all the lyrics and a little bit of the music. For example on the new album Liz came up with a piano based song, I changed it to guitar, and it sounds great.
Elizabeth: Well originally he was in Leicester (Syston) and I was living in London- he would send me really cool tracks that I would write lyrics and melodies too.
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
Mark: My favorite all time band is Felt and the first song on their first album is called …
++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
Mark: It’s changed over the years. I was an indie post punk kid, so the Cocteaus/Chameleons are an obvious influence on the first album sound-wise, but then I heard American Music Club, The Sundays and Faith Over Reason, and realized that it was ok to use acoustic guitars. The latter blew me away when I saw them live and I just wanted to sound like them. That’s really the sound of the first album, trying to sound like early Faith Over Reason. Since then I’ve been influenced by everything from ABBA to Zappa, I buy hundreds of albums a year and go to lots of gigs, so I’m always learning. I think the fact that me and Liz have such different influences is why we come up with the music we do.
Elizabeth: As a singer I’d say my influences are Joni Mitchell, Tori Amos, Annie Lennox and U2.
++ Your first release was an album, “Cloudbeams in Your Eye” in 1992. This album, as well as your next two albums were released on Can’t Be Beat Records. I was wondering if this was your own label? Or who was behind it?
Mark: it’s our own label. It’s named after the fanzine I did in university of the same name, of which there are 2 issues. That’s why the first album has a 3 in the catalog number, it’s the third release. I like the Factory way of numbering everything! “Can’t Be Beat” is a song by the legendary Bogshed, who I had the privilege of seeing a few times. I believe in that punk rock DIY spirit, even if we don’t sound punk. Nobody tells us what can and can’t go on a record.
++ One thing that caught my attention is that you went straight to releasing an album. I feel it is more common to see bands release a single, an EP, and then an album. Maybe previous to the album you had made demo tapes. How come it worked this way for you?
Mark: We recorded a 4 track demo tape and sent it out to all and sundry and got no response. So we just decided to go all out and record an album. I figured it was going to be our calling card, a better demo if you will, and if nothing happened at least we would have that to show for our effort.
++ This album was recorded at home. Where was home then? And why did you decide to record at home instead of a recording studio?
Mark: I had read so many interviews where bands had regretted spending thousands on recording in a pro studio and were in hoc to their label and never saw any royalty money. I’d learned how to record on a 4 track recorder over the previous 6 years, and figured 8 tracks would be just as easy. I bought a Fostex 8 track reel to reel, a Seck 18 channel mixing desk, and a Yamaha Rex 50 multi-effects box, rather than spend money in a studio, and we recorded the album over about 12 months on weekends. I was living in a house with 2 other guys in Syston, Leicester, so I just recorded when they were out. I’m also not a confident musician, so working without a clock ticking on the wall as the cost rises really helps me relax and play well. To this day every one of the hundreds of recordings I’ve done were all at home, I’ve never recorded in a commercial studio.
Elizabeth: I have recorded in studios but the sound isn’t as authentic. But I love recording anyplace. Our studio was very creatively orchestrated by Mark.
++ After this album you were featured in a book called “Adrift in the Ether”. I am not familiar with this book, care telling me what was it about and how come you ended up in it? This book is what made Elefant Records aware of you, right?
Mark: To be honest, some guy wrote to me out of the blue and asked if we’d write a bio he could put in a book he was writing about underground bands. I thought it was a hoax as I never even saw a copy for 15 years, and then came across one in a shop in San Francisco, so I bought it. I can’t remember how Elefant found us. They knew of another Leicester band called Po!, and I was already friends with Ruth Miller from that band. She sold our album through her mail order catalog for her label called Rutland Records. We did get some press coverage mainly in fanzines, so somehow the Elefant guy heard of us.
++ On Elefant you released a 7″ in 1995 with 3 songs. The songs had previously appeared on the album though on the 7″ they were different mixes of them. I wonder though why didn’t you include new songs on this single?
Mark: The owner Luis, specifically asked for 3 songs from the album, but remixed so it would make them ‘special’ for the EP. “Breaking Sun” has extra piano on the intro, “Time” has extra backing vocals, and “See Your Eyes” is just a remix with more oomph. To be honest I’m really thankful he took a chance on releasing our stuff, BUT, the 7” EP was pressed at 45rpm instead of 33, and is sonically awful. The two songs on the b-side really needed the extra time 33rpm would’ve given. He offered us a 2 album contract (which is where the new songs would’ve gone) where he owned the rights in perpetuity instead 10/15/20 years. At the time we were cocky upstarts thinking, some bigger label was bound to come in and sign us based on the first album, and we didn’t want to end up like The Who and Shel Talmy, and have recordings we would never own, and so turned him down. But in retrospect, we had youthful delusions of grandeur and should’ve signed the deal. Sorry Luis. That being said, he’s never returned any master tapes to us for any releases we gave him and since there’s no contract, it was just a gentleman’s agreement, he should have. To this day I have no stereo master DAT for any of those songs, so I’ll have to make new mixes for any re-release.
++ I own this record, this is how I discovered you. I also like to know the story of the art of the records. Here I see a photo in black and white. Where is it?
Mark: it’s an apartment on Grattan Street in San Francisco, where my future first wife lived.
++ Elefant would also include you in the compilation CD “A Tribute to Felt”. That made a lot of sense. Of course I was waiting for you to cover “Evergreen Dazed” but you did “Mexican Bandits”. If you were to do your top 5 Felt songs what would they be? And did you ever cover any other songs by them?
Mark: Felt is a game of two halves for me. I worship the Cherry Red era when Maurice Deebank was in them, (he is a huge influence on my guitar playing) and apart from “Forever Breathes The Lonely word”, the Creation era leaves me cold. I think Lawrence has over-egged the myth of the latter era.
1 – A Preacher In New England
2 – Mexican Bandits
3 – Sunlight Bathed The Golden Glow
4 – All The People I like Are Those That Are Dead.
5 – Cathedral
++ Speaking of compilations, you also appeared on, the Leicester based, Rutland Records tape called “Shiver Me Timbers Two” with the song “Time”. On this tape they mention that a lot of bands used to send demos to this label. Were you hoping to get signed to them? Were there any other labels interested in releasing your music?
Mark: No, I’ve known Ruth Miller since the late 80’s, when I auditioned for her band Po! But I couldn’t play barre chords very well at the time so I didn’t get the job! A band i was in prior to Evergreen Dazed had a song on the first “Shiver Me Timbers” tape, so i just contacted her and asked if we could be on the second. We’ve kept in touch over the years, and I try to see her when I’m back in Leicester for a visit. She’s now running a blog/fanzine called ‘Punk Girl Diaries’ with a member of The Popinjays which is really good. Of course being the aforementioned ‘post punk kid’, I really wanted to be on 4AD. When the first album came out, we played a couple of shows in San Francisco. My friend Landra who painted the cover and is now my sons Godmother was going out with Mark Kozelek of the Red House Painters at the time. I met him at party at her house, he had heard her play the record and liked it and he asked if I wanted to play for the RHP at their debut gig in the UK in November 1992 a few weeks later, so it would free him up as a front man. It was a bit of a surprise as they hadn’t released anything yet, and I had no idea what they sounded like. I had to go to a secret gig at the Islington Powerhaus to record them so I could learn my part in 24 hours. As I was setting up my tape machine a bald gentleman asked if he could sit at the table “Hi, my name’s Ivo” (yes, that Ivo!) so we chatted., and during the conversation he said he had heard our album but it wasn’t right for 4AD (probably just a nice way of saying he didn’t like it which is fair enough). The next night was the ‘official’ gig at the Borderline which was a weird night for a number of reasons good and bad, but I played second guitar on “Grace Cathedral Park” and then watched the rest of the set from the sidelines. I met a few 4ad luminaries like the singer from Wolfgang Press. Sadly there’s no photographic proof, and joining the band was never an option for many reasons, the main one being, I wasn’t a US citizen at the time (i am now) so i couldn’t live there! I also really wanted to do my own stuff with Liz. I’ve seen him at a couple of gigs here in San Francisco over the years, the last one being at a David J solo gig just before CV19 shut everything down in Feb 2020, but I haven’t spoken to him since that London gig in 1992.
++ It took a while for your second album, 11 years! In 2003 you put out “Broken Road”. I have to ask why did it take so long?
Mark: Life! I moved from the UK to the US in 1995, I got married, got a work visa, then a green Card, and had a kid. I had to rebuild my studio from scratch because of the voltage differences between the two countries. We did record “The AM sounds …” in 1998 in my studio apartment, but I wasn’t happy with it. The 2005 version is basically a remix of the 1998 tapes, which I now like even less and wish I’d never put it out. I’m hoping to put out the ‘proper’ version that sounds like it should’ve done in 1998 at some point. Chronologically, the songs predate ‘Broken Road’. It’s the missing link between the Cloudbeams and ‘Broken Road’. So really our albums are 1992, 1998, 2003 which doesn’t sound so bad. ‘AM sounds’ is the ‘lost’ second album.
Elizabeth: Quite a lot happened in between. I was getting a Master’s Degree at Hunter College in Education, playing gigs in the Lower East Side like Hotel Galvez and Upper West at the Dark Star Lounge as well as others. Finally I went to Japan Tokyo to teach English for about two years and then back to SF.
++ Then, 2 years later, you released “The AM Sounds of Evergreen Dazed”. That was your last release. This time you worked much quicker. Comparing it to your first album, how do you think the band had evolved in those 13 years. What did you do better than before?
Mark: it was quick because we already had the songs from 1998. I gave myself a deadline of Jan 1st 2005 as I was about to have my second child, and Liz who was living in Berkeley had decided to move back to NYC, and I thought I’d have no time for music ever again. It was a rushed release and a mistake, i should’ve taken my time over it. I’m not a quick worker, i like to mull songs over for ages before i’m happy with a recording, and AM was just rushed.
++ The photo of the front cover shows a city, but I can’t tell which city… is it San Francisco?
Mark: Yes, it’s a blurry picture of Candlestick Park from Twin Peaks taken whilst on LSD in June 1990!
++ On this record you have a song called “Long Gone (For Vini Reilly)”. How influential was Vini Reilly for you?
Mark: He’s up there in the holy trinity of influences for me: Maurice Deebank, Vini Reilly, and Steve Hackett. I’ve got literally every Durutti Column release (some a few times over)
++ I read that you are working on a new album. When is it expected to come out? What other details can you share with me?
Mark: Well we’ve done about half the songs. It’s mainly acoustic, with very little percussion. I hate to use the term unplugged, but it’s a lot more singer-songwriter than the previous 3. Low-key late night music. Covid has delayed it. I’m hoping to get it out in early 2022. All the vocals are done, my trusted mastering engineer is still in business thankfully, and my uncle did a painting for the cover. I’m hoping it will be vinyl but we’ll have to look at cost and turnaround times (which are much longer for vinyl).
++ And are there still many unreleased songs from those earlier days?
Mark: yes, we deliberately held songs off the first album, so we wouldn’t use up all the good ones in one go in case we did get signed by a label. But then we changed, so the style didn’t fit for later releases. Each album has an equivalent album of 4 track demos for it, there are usually 3 or 4 ‘proper’ songs that didn’t make the cut for whatever reason, and live versions from gigs. I would love to put out definitive 2 disc versions of each album, filled to the brim with bonus cuts but we’ll have to look at the finances.
++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Time”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?
Mark: this is a question for Liz. Musically I don’t know where things come from; it’s just an amalgam of my influences. I write tons of songs and for each one I go “is that an Evergreen Dazed song, would Liz like this, or should it be filed away for my solo stuff”.
Elizabeth: it was really my first time living away from NYC and I was feeling a lot of pressure to go back home. I felt I had to justify living basically on my own in a foreign country but I really believed in the music. The song is about following your interests in the face of social pressure to conform to the norm.
++ If you were to choose your favorite Evergreen Dazed song, which one would that be and why?
Mark: “Wide Open To Love” from Broken Road is musically the most satisfying song I’ve written. I use some odd chords and it’s perfectly paced.
Elizabeth: Hmm. Maybe my favorite is “Simply Pretending” in that it’s got elements of both happy and sad elements.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
Mark: No probably 15 gigs tops. When I was younger I enjoyed rehearsing and playing live in a band with my mates. As I’ve gotten older particularly with our band where there’s only two of us, we can never recreate live what a song sounds like on record and I get very frustrated. The last gig we played was at The Bitter End in New York in 2010 which was actually quite good. I’d like to play a release party for the new album, but we’ll have to see.
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Mark: we played with Richard Buckner back in 1992 who I admire greatly, but for me the best gig was where we shared a bill with Lee Mallory from The Millennium and Sagittarius (Curt Boetscher bands). I was little bit in awe as I love all that 60’s sunshine pop stuff, but he was lovely and humble.
Elizabeth: The Bitter End, NYC, 2010. I had played there before but not with Mark. So that was a great gig for me.
++ And were there any bad ones?
Mark: the only one that stands out is Oct 2004 we played in a bar whilst the World Series was on and they had the baseball so loud it drowned us out. Miserable experience.
++ You haven’t stopped Evergreen Dazed, but you’ve been involved with other music projects, care telling me a bit about them?
Mark: since I have a studio with tape gear (as well as digital), I occasionally record other people if they want a certain ‘sound’ or help mixing old tapes. I helped record a song by Pat Thomas (former bay area music guru, Heyday Records founder, and now renowned author) for a Steve Wynne tribute ‘From a Man of Mysteries”. He did “Until Lately” and we put everything through Fender tube amps including Fender Rhodes, flute and vocals, it was real fun. I also mixed a bunch of tracks that appeared on Barbara Manning’s “Super-Scissors” box set which came out in 2007. Since I’ve been friends with Pat Thomas for 35 odd years I recorded a lot of his prog jazz band Mushroom’s live gigs, and played with them once, but improv is not my cup of tea. I do a lot of electronic/space rock stuff as NashSpaceRocket. I’ve put out 4 EP’s on bandcamp, and there’s more to come, it couldn’t be more different to Evergreen Dazed.
Elizabeth: I played a duo with Remy de a Laroque in 2008. We have known each other since the 1990’s and we harmonize together really well. We had a duo together “Liz and I”. Honestly he wrote all the guitar and music but I love harmonizing with him.
I also played with one band called Bill Steely and we got some interest and radio play on WFUV and some other national airplay. I basically sang back-ups but there are a few where I sang the lead. It was good practice for me as we played out quite a bit.
++ Was there any interest from radio? TV?
Mark: No, we made a video for “This Is Cindy Talking” and sent it to MTV’s ‘120 Minutes’ back in the day, but it never got shown. I put the original master up on youtube a few years ago after finding it in a box in my parents’ attic. We did get some bay area college radio play when ‘Broken Road’ came out, but I never heard it as the station was too far away to pick up from my house.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
Mark: we got a little local press in Leicester for the first album, but nothing from mainstream weeklies or monthlies, it was mainly fanzines
++ What about from fanzines?
Mark: after the first album we sent it out to lots of fanzines, we got a few good reviews and Adventure Magazine in Denmark did a feature with us, and Ptolemaic Terrascope in the UK did an interview with us. Since I did a fanzine, and knew how long it was between issues, if somebody was interested I didn’t hold my breath as it could be months or years before seeing it.
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
Mark: If it wasn’t for the band I would never have met Liz, she’s a wonderful human being, and my daughters godmother, and a gentle soul. I don’t do it to be famous; I do it because I have to. If I don’t play the guitar every day I get real cranky, and if I come up with a good idea, I have to preserve it for posterity. Living in the bay area and having friends in the music biz I’ve met a lot of musicians, almost all of them are great human beings, I couldn’t be a luckier man.
I also have to say that having a song covered is an honor. A Spanish band called Crano Rareo did an electronic cover of “Time” in the early 2000’s and it sounds awesome. There’s a vid of it on youtube. That’s a humbling experience.
Elizabeth: Absolutely. Although we started out as a band I consider him to be the older brother I never had. Non-judgmental and fair. No really he is my most trusted friend by far and I am so happy to be his daughter’s God-Mother. Seriously an honor. Keeps me in the family so to speak. Now he can’t get rid of me. I think.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
Mark: I’ve collected comics ever since I was a kid, and I’ve played football (soccer) since I could stand up. I’m now 56 and haven’t played since before Covid and I think it’s time to hang up the boots before the knees start giving out. Which leaves more time for comics!
Elizabeth: Hobbies? Just music. Singing. These days trying to brush up on my keyboard playing. I study language- Japanese and French. I’ve been doing yoga since 1996.
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
Mark: New album out in 2022. Hopefully reissues in the next couple of years, and I’m about to give Liz a new batch of songs for album number 5. 2022 will be the 30th anniversary of the first album; I’d love to put it out on CD as it’s only ever been released on vinyl. Then 2023/2025 will be the 20th anniversaries of the 2nd and 3rd albums. I never want to stop.
Elizabeth: I think it is quite cool that Mark and I met as we did and kept going. Hopefully someone will give it a listen. I think it’s pretty cool thanks to his guitar playing and genius musical engineering. I am so excited to hear new music from Mark. Seriously you can’t imagine how it thrills me. Just hope after all these years I can write lyrics that do the music justice. Hopefully I’m in a better place. Wait it’s a Pandemic. I’m trapped. Here we go…
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Listen
Evergreen Dazed – Time
