Thanks so much to Raoulie de la Cruz for the interview! The Casino Ashtrays was a great band he had with Laura Watling/Mazzucco (The Autocollants, Tears Run Rings, Laura Watling) back in the 90s. A proper DIY indiepop band who released a few tapes, one CD and appeared on some compilations back then. 9 years ago the great Jigsaw Records released a retrospective compilation that is a must-have for all indiepop lovers. You can still find copies here. I’ve always been a fan so I had to do this interview sooner or later… and yeah, it took a while but finally all my questions are answered!
++ Hi Raoulie! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? I have been curious about this for years now, are you still making music? Or involved with music at all?
Hi Roque! I am doing fine…all things considered! Right before you sent in these interview questions I was actually recording some trumpet parts on my old 4-track for this band I was in called Folklore. Folklore is basically Jimmy Hughes who ran Bumblebear Records. He also played guitar in Elf Power for a few years when he still lived in Athens, Georgia. Anyways, Folklore was his band and I played trumpet in it. And then he moved to Philly, where he continued with new members. Here’s a funny story – and you can cut it out if it goes too long: When I first moved to Athens in 2005, I just kinda hung out for a couple of months before getting a job. One day, I went to go browse in the Star Wars aisle at the local Toys-R-Us (I used to avidly collect Star Wars action figures). When I got there, this dude was already going through all the action figures. I thought, “Dammit! This guy is gonna buy up all the good stuff!” He could sense that someone was behind him, waiting, so he turned around. When he saw me he said, “Raoul???? It’s me…Jimmy!” It took me a minute to register and then I was like, “Oh yeah! Hey, Jimmy!” Then he asked me, “Did you just move here???” “YES!” “You wanna be in my band?” “Sure! Yeah!” And just like that, I was in Folklore! And then while I was in Folklore, I started a super twee band called The French Toasts with my girlfriend, Missy Kulik. We mostly played covers on toy instruments. And then I started playing trumpet in another local Athens band called Werewolves. And in-between all that, I had another short-lived band called The Slow Rowboat. Up until just a couple days ago, I hadn’t worked on music since Missy and I moved to Atlanta a couple of years ago.
++ I reckon that it has been 9 years since Jigsaw Records compiled all Casino Ashtrays songs on the compilation “(Are Your Boring Ideas of Fun the Same as Mine?)”. I thought when that came out that I had to interview you. Not sure why I didn’t ask you then. But now, years after this compilation, how do you feel these songs, most recorded during the 90s have aged?
I still like most of the songs on there, so I guess they aged pretty good? That is to say, I’m still proud of the songs and recordings. Not sure how Laura (Watling/Mazzucco) feels, though! I still like the lo-fi quality of the recordings. To me, it’s indicative of a DIY “Just do it!” kinda approach to writing and recording. We didn’t let limitations in skill, equipment, etc. stop us from recording and sharing our music. It was like, let’s just get these ideas and sounds down on tape and have fun making something. PUNK ROCK, Y’ALL!
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?
I remember that my parents had 8-track tapes that they would play in the van. I remember there was a best of Elvis tape that got played a lot. And I think a Sha Na Na tape. My mother had this 8-track of piano instrumentals that she liked to listen to. They were all old Latin-American standards like “Tico Tico”. And then when we weren’t listening to 8-track tapes, the radio would always be tuned into some sort of oldies station. Definitely listened to a lot of oldies from the 50’s and 60’s growing up.
My first instrument was probably a toy piano! I remember having one as a child. Funny, because when Missy and I started up French Toasts many years later, we decided to use this toy piano that she had rescued from a trash heap as our main instrument. It came around full circle! In elementary school, I had a chance to learn an instrument and I guess I sort of decided to play trumpet. So, from about 5th grade all the way up until the end of high school, I was involved in school bands, learning how to play trumpet and read music.
++ Had you been in other bands before Casino Ashtrays? What about the rest of the members? If so, how did all of these bands sound like? Are there any recordings?
Long before the Casino Ashtrays was my first real band, Honeychurch – named after Helena Bonham Carter’s character, Lucy Honeychurch, from the movie “A Room With A View”. We were heavily influenced by the whole “MADCHESTER” scene that was al the rage at the time. Xavier, our keyboardist, was very good. Classically trained pianist. Because of him and the organ parts he would come up with, we were able to channel the spirit of The Charlatans. There are a couple of recordings of Honeychurch. The music sounds good, but the lyrics are crap, so they’ll probably never see the light of day. HA! I was still learning how to craft good lyrics with that first band.
After Honeychurch came Cha Cha Cha. That’s the band that I started with my friend Rachel Thorson, who was a later member of Honeychurch, and our friend, Mike Perez. Cha Cha Cha originally started out as a zine that came with a tape of music that Mike and I made, with different singers for each song. The tape was more popular than the actual zine, so the project morphed into a full-time band, with Rachel as the lead singer. We were often described as a “lo-fi version of Luscious Jackson”, which was a fair assessment. We released a bunch of tapes through my cassette label, Popgun Recordings, before being picked up by Japanese label, Motorway Records.
When Casino Ashtrays started up, Laura was already in Autocollants with Ed Mazzucco. They sounded like dreamy, shoe-gazey pop. Brian Medford joined the band towards the end, playing saxophone and drums. Brian and I were in high school marching band together, so that would be the only other band he was in before joining up with us.
++ Of course you were also involved with Popgun Recordings, and that’s something I hope we can talk about in another interview, as well as your other bands. But I wonder, what did you enjoy the most playing in a band or running a label?
Playing in bands was definitely more fun than running a label! I mean, I kinda got burned out on both eventually, but I got tired of running the label long before my interest in playing in bands had waned.
++ How was your town (was it Riverside, California?) at the time of Casino Ashtrays? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
Riverside was okay. It’s mostly a punk rock kinda town. Aside from the bands that me and my friends were in, there weren’t many local bands that we liked, HA! There were a few venues like Spanky’s and The Barn at UCR (University of California, Riverside), but again, it was mostly punk. To be honest, unless you went to one of the house shows that Laura or I put on, there probably wasn’t much chance of seeing indiepop bands at that time. This was all long before The Summer Twins became such a big indiepop hit in Riverside. As far as record stores went, there was none better than Mad Platter Records at that time – and everyone from the core group of Popgun bands all worked there at one time or another, including Laura!
++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?
Both Mike and Rachel of Cha Cha Cha had radio shows at the University of California Riverside (UCR), 88.3 FM KUCR. We all used to hang out at the radio station while they did their shows. Mike played a lot of funk, instrumental hip-hop, electronic music, etc. while Rachel played mostly shoegaze, indie rock, and indie pop. Laura used to listen to Rachel’s show and would sometimes call the station to put in a request. And then one time we invited Laura to come hang out at the radio station. It was around that time that I asked her if she sang and she said that she was actually the singer in band (The Autocollants). I asked her if she would be interested in singing on a couple of songs I wanted to record and, to my surprise, she was like, “Sure. OK!” I think that was sometime during 1996. Cha Cha Cha and Popgun Recordings started in 1995, so it would have been 1996 when we all first met Laura.
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
I think I wrote most of our original songs. I would write the songs and maybe record a rough demo for Laura to listen to. She’d learn the singing parts, and then we would quickly record them. And then she would come up with vocal harmonies or additional instrumental parts. And then we’d quickly record those, too. My little Porta 03 4-track was quite mobile and I could set up anywhere. We probably mostly practiced and recorded at my parents’ house, but I think we also recorded and practiced at Laura’s from time to time. I just remember the process being really organic and quick. Feels like most of the recordings came about very quickly. We weren’t super perfectionists about the recording process, and I liked the recordings to be more raw and lo-fi, so I think that helped in that regard.
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
The name “Casino Ashtrays” came from a lyric on “Bus to Vegas”. I had written the song long before the band existed: “The rain fell / from the sky today / and my heart felt like / a casino ashtray”
++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
I know for a fact that I was listening to a lot of Lois, The Softies, Astrud Gilberto, The Beautiful South, and The Sundays at that time. They were all definite touchstones.
++ Most of your releases came out on your own label, Popgun. I was wondering if that was always the intention, or did you shop for labels at all?
It was always the intention to put recordings out on Popgun first, just so we could get these songs out into the world as quickly as possible. Parasol Mail Order had started distributing Cha Cha Cha cassettes through their mailorder catalog already, along with a few other Popgun releases and compilations. So, it was natural to just release things through Popgun Recordings. The cassette releases acted kind of like demos, anyways, and they sometimes led to certain acts getting picked up and released on other labels.
++ The art of the releases of Casino Ashtrays is quite peculiar, at least there are two cat photos and one snowy ball sort of souvenir with a jackpot machine in it. Were these your own photos? Who designed them?
I designed the covers on all the Popgun cassette releases. The first one, “Bus to Vegas”, features a photo I took of a snow globe I bought in Las Vegas. I used to collect snow globes from all the places I visited. The back cover is a photo of a slot machine that was in my friend Amber’s living room. On the “Just Like Me” e.p. I used an image of a Siamese cat I found in an old book. I would sometimes buy books from the thrift store that had interesting images, and I would sometimes use those to make the the sleeves for Popgun Recordings or show flyers. “Live from 88.7 FM KSPC” was mostly done with silly stickers and images cut out from an art history book. “Long After The Commercials Have Ended” uses commercial clip art from the 60s and 70s. Those also came from an old book. And lastly, our CD release of “Bus to Vegas” on Twee Kitten Records features a photo of my then-girlfriend’s cat with a roulette wheel that her family had. We just wanted to tie in the whole kitten thing with the casino thing.
++ Your first tape was “Bus to Vegas” from 1996. Were the two songs on it the first ever recordings by the band? Or had you had previous songs made? Also, did you two ever take a bus to Las Vegas?
Yes, those were the very first two Casino Ashtrays recordings. I had just finished recording all the instrumental parts when I met Laura. It was very good timing. I have been to Las Vegas many times. And I have travelled by Greyhound Bus many times. But I’ve never actually taken a bus to Vegas! I just kinda combined those two experiences in the song.
++ The second tape was “Just Like Me EP”. Now we find 7 songs! A proper mini-album. This is your longest release, but at the same time it makes me wonder, why didn’t you ever release an album? Were there plans to do one at any point?
Well, in general, I just prefer singles and short releases over full albums. As far as Popgun was concerned, it was just a way to put out more releases in a short period of time. I always thought of Popgun as a sort of a “singles-only” type lable. Also, dubbing tapes was less of a chore with shorter releases!
++ “Bus to Vegas” was reissued in 1998 with an extra song by a different label, Twee Kitten Records. How did you end up working with them? And whose idea was to re-release this tape? Was this third song “Invincible” from the same period of the two other songs?
It was Scott Z from Twee Kitten who approached us, I believe. I don’t remember exactly how, since it was so long ago. I think he had gotten a copy of the “Bus to Vegas” tape through Parasol Mail Order and then wanted to re-release it as a cd on his label, but with an extra song to make it different than the original release. I had already been working on “Invincible” for a release on Popgun, but then ended up recording it for the Twee Kitten instead.
++ And that release was the only one on CD as well. Did you have a preference between cassette as most of your releases or CD?
I think if someone had offered to put out an entire Casino Ashtrays album on CD or vinyl we certainly would have done it. Popgun Recordings was set up as a “cassette-only” label mostly as an issue of cost. It was simply cheaper and faster to release music on cassette. And so most of the Casino Ashtrays catalog was released on tape.
++ In 2000 you released “Soundwaves & Radiowaves” which were 6 songs recorded live at 88.7 FM KSPC. How was that experience? Was it your first time recording a live session in the radio? How did this opportunity come to be?
That was fun, if a little nerve-wracking! By that time, both Laura and I were seasoned performers, mostly with our other bands. It was certainly my first time performing live on radio, not sure about Laura. I don’t remember how the live session came about. I think that was something that was set up with Laura. Anyways, the show was nerve-wracking for me because the DJ who was on beforehand was Franklin Bruno!
++ Your last release came out in 2004, “Long After the Commercials Have Ended”, it was 4 years after your previous release. Why did it take so long?
“Long After the Commercials Have Ended” was basically a small collection of loose ends. The cover of “Sleepyhead” by The Cat’s Miaow was supposed to come out on a tribute compilation that some other label was putting together. We waited several years for this release to come out and, by that time, I think we had waited long enough and was convinced that the tribute CD would never see the light of day. So, I thought I should, at the very least, put it out on Popgun just so people could finally hear it. We were very proud of our version! “Must See T.V.” was from a CD compilation that Japanese music magazine Beikoku-Ongaku put out. I added it to the tape to help flesh it out. And then “Books on Tape and 45s” was basically a demo that we recorded before Laura moved up to Santa Rosa, California. A finished version would’ve had more instrumentation – like drums, keyboards, and sleigh bells. I didn’t want the song to languish without a release.
++ When it comes to compilations you did appear on a few and one was in a Beikoku-Ongaku compilation, with the song “Must See T.V.”. How did the Japanese find out about your music? Did you get to sell many tapes there?
Initially, Japanese music fans found out about Popgun because of the releases we were selling through the Parasol Records mail order catalog. That’s how Cha Cha Cha ended up getting signed to Japanese label, Motorway Records, which ended up bringing more attention to Popgun Recordings. Eventually, a few indie record shops in Japan, such as Propeller in Nagano and King Kong in Osaka, started stocking select releases.
++ Then there was your first time on vinyl with the song “Gilded” on “The Crayola Catastrophy” compilation 7″ released by another California label, Kittridge Records. I wonder were you close to them? Was there a close-knit scene in California back then?
The indie pop scene in Southern California was a pretty close-knit, I would say. We came to know Doug Jones who ran Kittridge because he used to come to the Popluck house shows that either Laura or I would curate and host. A lot of folks from the local scene would come to those shows, definitely. Everyone was collaborating and vibing off each other. It was a great time!
++ And were there more songs recorded by the band that didn’t end up on the compilation?
Aside from the “Live at KSPC” recordings, Not many. Maybe only one song, I think. One that was written by Laura that she chose to leave off the compilation.
++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Dress Code”, with its cool trumpets, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?
Awww, thanks! The song is about that joyful feeling when you meet someone who’s into the same weird or obscure stuff as you are. All music tribes/scenes usually have an unspoken “dress code” or style that comes with fandom. That’s really fascinating to me.
++ If you were to choose your favorite Casino Ashtrays song, which one would that be and why?
That’s a tough one. I really like “Gilded” because of the beat that Laura plays on it. To me, it kinda has a “funky drummer” groove to it. And I really like our vocals – I like how we trade on and off, I like the counter melodies, Laura’s harmonies…there’s just a lot of nice layering in the song. The lyrics aren’t too shabby, either. HA! There’s a lyric that Laura sings on it that goes “Are your boring ideas of fun the same as mine?”…we ended up using that as the title of the anthology that Jigsaw Records put out. I also use that lyric as the tagline on my personal Instagram account.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
Not too many, I don’t think. We probably played almost all the house shows we put on, though.
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Playing at the inaugural San Francisco Popfest in 1999 was, hands down, the best gig we played. No doubt. We were the first band to go on, on a Friday night, opening for an amazing roster of bands which included The Fairways, Monterey, The Crabs, and Marine Research. I remember that the Bottom Of The Hill club was sold out and packed from the front of the stage all the way back. And you could just feel and see the excitement and anticipation in the crowd. It was probably the most nerve-wracking show ever, but also one of the most fun times performing.
I have a couple of great anecdotes about this particular show, but this is the best one. Okay, so, the previous year, back in 1998, I was living and studying abroad in Oxford, England. Literally, one of the first things I did when I arrived in Oxford was to get my hands on a local weekly that listed all the gigs and concerts in town. I was ready to see some live music and have some fun! To my surprise, I saw that fellow Twee Kitten labelmates, The Relationships, were playing a show in Oxford at this club called >>The Point<< at the end of the week – my very first week in town! What were the odds? So, I ended up going to the show, of course.
After The Relationships played, I introduced myself to the lead singer, Richard Ramage. I complimented their show and said, “By the way, we’re labelmates on Twee Kitten. I’m in this band called Casino Ashtrays!” and Richard, with a surprised look on his face exclaimed, “What the bloody hell are you doing HERE???” We all had a good laugh and many pints were shared that night. Well, I soon learned that Richard used to be roommates with Amelia and Pete from Heavenly…and he suggested that we all get pints one day! And of course, I didn’t turn down that opportunity! I barely remember that day with them at the pub because I think I was so star struck. But I do remember vividly Amelia saying, “Well, maybe someday we’ll get to play with your band!” I thought to myself how great that would be…and that it would probably never happen. But then the next year at SF Popfest it DID happen!
++ And were there any bad ones?
There was this one show that we did with The Boyish Charms, Poundsign, and the Aislers Set. The line-up itself was awesome. And the music and performances were awesome. But the venue was at this all-ages punk club somewhere in Long Beach, California. I think it was called the PCH Club. Anyways, it was basically a rundown warehouse space by the train tracks that was literally crawling with rats. Hardly anyone showed up, so it was basically bands playing to the bands. That was probably the worst show we ever played.
++ When and why did Casino Ashtrays stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?
Casino Ashtrays ended pretty much after Laura moved upstate to Santa Rosa, CA. It was just too hard to do the long-distance thing at that time. The internet wasn’t a thing like it is now. Plus, Laura was busy with The Autocollants, Monterey, her own solo stuff and other musical projects. And I was busy being in a bunch of other bands, too. Besides doing Test Pilot, I was in Winnebago, Red Pony Clock, The Easy Outs, a band called The Summer Flings…and I did a bunch of one-off things with different bands. And then when I moved to Athens, Georgia, I started a band with my girlfriend, Missy Kulik, called The French Toasts. And soon afterwards I joined the aforementioned Folklore. Then, both Missy and I were briefly in a band called Gemini Cricket. Somewhere in there, I started a band called The Slow Rowboat that lasted a hot minute…long enough for the band to play one show! And then the last band I was active in was this local Athens band called Werewolves.
++ Has there been any The Casino Ashtrays reunion?
No, there hasn’t been a reunion. It would be fun, though, if we could pull one off!
++ Did you get much attention from the radio? TV?
Well, we did play that one live show at KSPC!
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
No. None from any traditional newspapers or magazines.
++ What about from fanzines?
From fanzines, definitely. Mostly in Japan and Sweden, I think!
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
The biggest highlight would definitely be Casino Ashtrays performing at the 1999 San Francisco Popfest. Such a fun and crazy time! We were so grateful for that opportunity.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
IS there anything else besides music? I like to travel, go to museums, work on craft projects, root around in antique shops, garden, hang out with Missy and our pets. Mild-mannered stuff.
++ I know you are based now in Atlanta, and I have never visited so would love to hear your recommendations as a local, what sights one shouldn’t miss? Food and drinks one should try?
Well, it’s not Atlanta, but if you’re a hardcore music fan, you should definitely spend a day wandering around Athens, GA. Do that, first. If possible, sign up to take one of the music history tours of the town, if available from the Welcome Center. Maybe catch a show at the world famous 40 Watt Club or at the Flicker Theater & Bar a couple of doors down from there. And of course, spend some time and money at Wuxtry Records and at Bizarro Wuxtry, the comic book shop above the record store. Hiking around the State Botanical Gardens in Athens is a lovely way to spend the day, too. Vintage and antique finds can be had at Starlite Showroom.
We’re still fairly new to Atlanta, so our recommendations are going to be pretty basic and touristy! You should visit the King Center, for sure. It is the final resting place of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and there are exhibits honoring his life and work, along with exhibits for Coretta Scott King and Gandhi. We really like The High Museum of Art. Highly, recommended! The Georgia Aquarium is cool too – it’s crowded, but totally worth it if you’ve never been. I know you’re a soccer fan, so maybe try to catch an Atlanta United game while in town! Or catch a show at The Earl or Terminal West. Record shopping at Criminal Records is a must.
Food-wise, we’re vegetarian. So, in Athens, we highly recommend eating at The Grit. It is a vegetarian Mecca of sorts, especially for road-weary bands. Even if you’re not vegetarian, you have to eat there if you are in town. We also like Heirloom Café and Condor Chocolates. Drinking-wise, we like Rook & Pawn because it’s where all the nerds hang out. But also check out Flicker, Little Kings, and World Famous if you like your drinks with a side of live music.
In Atlanta you should basically just go up on Buford Hwy to eat. It is a long stretch of road bursting with Asian and Latin American restaurants serving up authentic cuisine. There’s also Krog Street Market and Ponce City Market – both are basically fancy food courts, but in the best possible way. Our favorite place to eat is just up the street from us – Arepa Mia. Yummy arepas served up Venuzuelan-style. Drinking-wise close to us in downtown Decatur we have the Brickstore Pub with a wide selection of craft beers and S.O.S., which is this really great tiki bar. And we have My Parent’s Basement which is a bar-arcade-comic book shop combo. It’s where the freaks and geeks hang out. Our kind of people!
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
Thanks for the interview, Roque! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you!
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Listen
Casino Ashtrays – Dress Code
