Thanks so much to Matthew Murdock for the interview! Jupiter Sun was a very fine 90s band from the Bay Area who released on Slumberland and Parasol Records. I wrote about the band a couple of weeks ago and through Rob, their drummer, I got in touch with Matthew who was keen to answer all my questions! If you’ve never heard them before, this is a great time to do so!
++ Hi there! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Still in the Bay Area? Still making music?
I’m good. Thanks for asking me to do an interview. No one has asked for an interview in like 20 years. I still live in the Bay Area. I live in the South Bay, near San Jose where I grew up. I record some music on my own still, but I haven’t been in a band since 2005.
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?
I have a distinct memory of hearing “Let ‘Em In” by Paul McCartney and Wings on the radio as a child. I started playing guitar at about age 10. My older brother played guitar, so there was one around the house. I didn’t really take it seriously until I was about 14 though. My parents listened to The Beatles, Neil Young, Pink Floyd, and my mom was a big David Bowie fan. My older brother listened to the rock music of the time: AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, The Who, but he later got into what I guess would be lumped together as “New Wave”. I got into Devo and The Pretenders from hearing those records the house. When I was about 15, I got really into Echo and the Bunnymen (I’d say I was a fanatic), as well as The Smiths, Cocteau Twins, The Jesus and Mary Chain, Aztec Camera, Joy Division, and New Order.
++ Was Silver your first band or had you been in other bands before that? What about the rest of the members? If so, how did all of these bands sound like? Are there any recordings?
Silver wasn’t my first band. My first real band was called The Melt, and we played Freakbeat and 60’s inspired psych music. At first, we played covers of the various “post-punk” bands (like “I Melt With You” by Modern English) but then decided we wanted to change direction after Ted introduced us to bands like John’s Children, Wimple Winch, and The Yardbirds. That band included my good friend Ted Snydal, who played bass and sang, and Ollie Moore on drums and backing vocals, who was later in Silver and Jupiter Sun. I didn’t really sing at that time. I just wanted to be a guitarist at that point. The band broke up when Ted went to study abroad in Europe. We have recorded about 10 songs on cassette four-track, but a lot of them were covers.
I don’t think Ollie was any other bands before The Melt. Steve had a band (see below), but that band basically became Silver. I think we were the first band Paul Tyler was in. Nate Rockwood was in another band, but I don’t remember the name. They were influenced by the “Madchester” scene.
++ I know you started as Silver and then changed name to Snowball and then to Jupiter Sun. Was there any other differences between these three bands besides the name? Is that the right order? Why the name changes and what inspired these names
Snowball actually came first. It was a solo project of mine. The Melt had dissolved, and I was band-less at the time. I have a high school friend named Clint Barnes, and his friend was a guy named Chuck Wu. They had an indie-pop fanzine called Amish Ways. They wanted to do a flexi-disc for one of the issues, and they asked me to record a song for it. The song was called “Water Boatman”, and I decided to make up a band name instead of using my own name. I took the band name from The Field Mice 10” album, and it related well to the “Winter’s Mist” theme of the flexi-disc. I think it was the winter edition of fanzine.
Silver formed not long after the Snowball song came out. I was looking for a band, and my friend, Allen Masuda, said he knew a guy whose brother had a band that was into the “Manchester” scene. I liked The Stone Roses a lot, so I thought I’d contact him. I got Steve’s number and called him up, or maybe it was the other way around. He went to my high school, but was a year behind me, so I didn’t know him. When I talked to Steve, I learned that they were actually looking for a drummer, because they had two guitarists, Steve on bass, and a singer. I said I knew a drummer (Ollie), so I guess we agreed that I’d come over with Ollie to “jam”. I thought three guitarists was maybe too much, but Jun had just seen Chapterhouse, and said we could make it work.
Anyway, the singer only showed up a few times, and one of the guitarists left to form another band. So, we were left with me (guitar, vocals), Steve Chang (bass), Jun Ragudo (guitar), and Ollie Moore (drums). Jun and Steve found Anne Hotchkiss, and she became co-lead vocalist with me. This is the first version of Silver. I chose the name Silver because both Ride and Echo & The Bunnymen had songs called “Silver”. We decided to go in a more “shoegaze” direction, as all the bands like Ride, Slowdive, My Bloody Valentine, and Lush were touring and putting out great records. We recorded a demo with this 5 piece lineup (which I still have), and played two shows. After that, Anne decided she didn’t like singing on stage and left the group. We continued as a four piece as Silver for a while, with me singing lead.
About six months later, Jun decided he wanted to leave the group as well. This was around the same time we got an offer to do a 7” single on Slumberland Record. Mike Schulman from Slumberland Records moved to Berkeley, and worked at Mod Lang Records in Berkeley. I met him there, and he had heard the Snowball song somehow and liked it. I gave him a demo of Silver and he liked it enough to offer to put out a 7” single, though I think he actually liked the Snowball song more that Silver. Mike asked us to change the band name, because there was some Grateful Dead offshoot band called Silver. We had to come up with something quick, and I came up with the name after watching 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is still my favorite movie. I wish we hadn’t changed the name, or found a different name, because we kind of got lumped into some sort of space-rock category, but we really had a lot of influences. It’s my fault, I guess.
So, at the time we started the recording for the Slumberland 7” (which was never released), we were a three-piece of me, Steve, and Ollie.
Later, we had other members at different times in Jupiter Sun: Paul Tyler was on second guitar for a while when Ollie was playing drums, then Rob Uytingco replaced Ollie on drums, and later we had Nate Rockwood on lead vocals. Steve and I were the only members that were in every version of the band.
++ Where were you from originally, San Francisco?
No, most of us were from San Jose, CA. Jun, Steve, Rob, and I all went to the same high school, though I am a year older than those guys, and didn’t know them in high school. Ollie was from San Jose also, and I think Paul was living in Berkeley when he joined the band. Nate was from Campbell, which is adjacent to San Jose.
++ How was your city at the time? What were the good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
San Jose had an OK music scene at the time. There were some other local bands that were influenced by British indie, “Madchester” and “shoegaze”. To us, it was all kind of the same thing. We didn’t know the difference between Manchester and London! A batch of local bands sort of sprouted up from the excitement over The Stone Roses, and the stuff that was coming out on Creation Records. Bands like Valeria, The Damsels (Rob’s first band), Blue Eskimos, Ozean, Your Precious You, and Galileo Space Tribute. We became friendly and played a lot of shows together. We had a little scene for a few years in San Jose around 1992-1995, though it was against the grain of the grunge scene that was big at the time. Most of the local clubs just wanted to promote bands that sounded like Pearl Jam. There was one larger club called FX that booked us, and we opened for The Boo Radleys once there. The absolute best record store at that time was Mod Lang in Berkeley, and it still exists, but it’s now in El Cerrito, CA.
++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?
I answered a lot this earlier, but I can elaborate a bit. I met Ollie through a guy named Jon, who was the original lead singer of The Melt. I used to put flyers looking for musicians at the local record stores and guitar stores, as well as ads in the local music paper, BAM Magazine. I met a Paul Tyler through an ad – he played guitar in Jupiter Sun for a while. I met Mike Prosenko around 1992. Mike later had a band called Ozean that recently had its demo tape re-released. I met a few other musicians that went on to form bands, but mostly, there were a lot of people we tried out that just didn’t fit the band, or didn’t have any musical talent. Some people would show up to try out saying, “Oh yeah, I like Ride”, but maybe had only heard “Vapour Trail” once on the radio, and really had no idea where we were coming from.
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
In the beginning, we practiced in the garage of my house or Steve’s house. We were all living at home at the beginning of the band. Later, we rented a rehearsal space. We’d normally work out the arrangements as a band in the rehearsal room. Sometimes the songs came together from just playing around in the rehearsal space. But a lot of the time I wrote the songs on my own, and then presented them to the band, or Steve would write something and present it. Occasionally, Steve and I would sit down and write with just the two of us.
++ How was the scene in the Bay Area at the time? Where there many good bands? Which were your favourites?
I think I answered earlier, but my favorite local bands were The Damsels, Blue Eskimos, and Galileo Space Tribute. San Francisco had some bands as well, but I’d have to say there was a higher concentration of bands similar to us in San Jose than in San Francisco. 1992-1995 was really great time in San Jose. I could go out multiple times a week and see bands I knew, or just run into people I knew and have a drink. Of course, there was other kinds of music going on too, outside of our little scene.
After 1995, there were fewer places to play live in San Jose, and a lot of the musicians I knew relocated to San Francisco. Britpop came along strong during this time, and while I liked a lot that music, it was a bit different from a lot of our initial influences. Also, a club night called Popscene started in 1996 in San Francisco, and fans of British music in the Bay Area sort of coalesced around that club. I knew a few of the guys that started that club, and it’s still around today. Before Popscene, you’d sort of just meet people randomly at different shows and “alternative” dance nights, if you were friendly, but you’d see the same people every week at Popscene.
++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
I’d say the main influences were Ride and The Stone Roses. Seeing Ride live (with Lush) was really the catalyst for me to try to put a serious band together. Some other influences were The Charlatans, Blur, Slowdive, My Bloody Valentine. and Adorable. But we all had different influences. Steve and Ollie were into funk and soul. We all liked James Brown and Curtis Mayfield. The Beatles were a huge influence as well. Personally, I was really into The Byrds, Neil Young, Big Star, and The Zombies at the time. I also was into some of the Sarah Records bands like The Field Mice and The Sea Urchins.
++ Was your first ever release the one with Snowball, the 7″ on Silver Girl Records? How did you end up on this Californian label? And why didn’t you continue working with them?
The Snowball song “Water Boatman” came out on the Winter’s Mist flexi disc first for the Amish Ways fanzine, and then was re-released on the Silver Girl vinyl 7”. It was just something that Silver Girl Records and Amish Ways worked out. I didn’t have any contact with Silver Girl, but I did receive some copies of the 7”. Pretty soon after it came out, Mike from Slumberland asked us to do a 7” single, so I guess we just went for that.
++ Your first record as Jupiter Sun was a single sided “Blow Up” 12″ that came out on I Wish I Was a Slumberland Records. I’ve always been curious about this sub-label, and I was wondering two things, why was it a single sided 12″, why not use both sides? And why wasn’t it released on Slumberland proper?
At first, we were supposed to do a 7” single, but for some reason, Mike decided he didn’t want to do a 7” anymore. We just kept recording more songs, with the idea that it would become an e.p. instead. I’m not sure why, but the Mike decided he didn’t want to put it out on Slumberland proper. I think it was cheaper to master only one side for vinyl. I designed the sleeve cover, and got the sleeves silk screened, as well as the insert. This was about two years after we were supposed to put out the 7”, so obviously we were impatient, as we wanted to have something to promote and sell at gigs. You’d need to ask Mike from Slumberland about the reasons for the sub-label. I was never quite sure, but I think it was business related. After the single sided vinyl e.p. came out, two of the songs ended up on the Slumberland compilation album and cd. “Why Popstars Can’t Dance”. If I remember correctly, a bunch of stuff that was supposed to come out as 7” singles on Slumberland ended up on the compilation instead.
++ These songs were recorded at Astral Sound and Mysterious Cave. How was that experience? Was it your first time working in a proper professional studio?
Astral Sound was a professional studio. Mysterious Cove was the home studio of our producer, Jeff Stuart Saltzman. Our manager, Alan Salmassian, introduced me to Jeff. Jeff was also a musician and songwriter, and had a record out under the name Cerebral Corps. Jeff worked at Astral Sounds as an engineer, so we could get cheap studio time there. Jeff was a great help in teaching us how to record, and he also introduced me to a lot of great music. This was before the digital, home recording boom. It was difficult to make a record at home. Overall, I was happy with the results from the professional studio, though if I could go back in time. I probably would have gone for a more raw sound.
++ Afterwards you would sign with Parasol to release an album. I was wondering how you end up first on Slumberland and then on Parasol? Did you meet the people behind the labels? How was your relationship with them?
I knew Mike Schulman from Slumberland Records. I’d usually talk to him when I went into Mod Lang Records. We never actually signed any contract with Slumberland; it was a handshake deal. After we finished the seven songs that were on Atmosphere that weren’t on the I Wish I Was a Slumberland Record e.p., Mike didn’t like the mixes and wanted us to remix it. We recorded those songs on a borrowed Tascam 16 track tape machine, and I didn’t want remix it, and I couldn’t really afford to do it. I didn’t think the mixes would get any better. We would have had to re-record it. I will say that we never were advanced any money from Slumberland. The band paid for the recordings, with a lot of the recording costs coming directly out of my pocket.
At that point, my friend Chuck Wu persuaded me to shop the album to Parasol Records. Geoff from Parasol said he liked it, and would release it immediately. After the long delays with Slumberland, we just wanted to get it out. I never met Geoff from Parasol. I only spoke to him on the phone as Parasol was based in Illinois. I probably spoke to him like three times. I don’t remember if there was an actual contract, but basically it was a one-off distribution deal, since we owned the recordings.
That said, I had a text conversation with Mike Schulman a few years ago, and we had a nice chat. I hold no ill will toward him. Slumberland is a cool label, and I’m glad it’s still around.
++ The album “Atmosphere” was released in 1995 and included the songs from the Slumberland 12″. They were the same songs? Or different versions? And how different was recording an album, say like a single or an EP?
All the same songs and mixes that appeared on the I Wish I Was A Slumberland 12” e.p. appeared on the Atmosphere cd. Well, they should all be the same mixes. I’m pretty sure they are. Either the L.P. or the CD of the “Why Popstars Can’t Dance” compilation on Slumberland has an alternate mix of Headlight Beam Reaction. I can’t remember which one. I’d have to go check. We just kept recording. At first it was supposed to be a 7” single with Violet Intertwine and Accelerate. Then an e.p. Then we decided to basically do a home recording of the last seven songs on Atmosphere because we couldn’t afford to go to a real studio, as we had recouped very little money yet.
++ Your next release, “Looking Up” CDEP would be on your own label, Phase 45 Records. Why did you go on your own for this release? And how was the experience of doing “label stuff”? Did you like it?
Ha! We released it on our own because we were tired of looking for a label. We didn’t really do any “label stuff”. I still have boxes of the “Looking Up” cd in my garage. We weren’t good at any sort of “music business”. We mainly just sold it at gigs. This was when we were managing ourselves, which we weren’t particularly good at.
++ For this CDEP the band lineup had changed, Rob Uytingco had joined and replaced Ollie on drums. What happened?
That’s a long story, but basically Ollie left the band to transfer to an out-of-state college. There was some friction in the band between Ollie and I at the time, which I think was made worse the long delay of our recordings being released, and the lack of progress in becoming a “professional” band. Also, I wasn’t the most communicative person at that stage. We were all young and didn’t really know how to talk things out. (We didn’t have a sweater-clad guy to help us, like Metalllica.) I had decided to break up the band right after we finished recording the last tracks for “Atmosphere” because I was so frustrated, but Steve and I talked and decided to try the band again after we found out Rob had left his old band and was available. We knew he was a good drummer. He lived right near us. It clicked right away, musically and personally. But both Ollie and Rob were great drummers.
++ I noticed that you only appeared on one compilation, “Why Popstars Can’t Dance?”. Is that true? Or did you appear on more?
We were only on that one compilation.
++ On the web, on Soundcloud, I found many unreleased tracks. I was wondering then when were these songs recorded? And why weren’t they ever released?
“Pacific”, “Washed Away” and “Violet Intertwine (original demo)” were from a Silver demo tape with me singing. They were just home recordings done on a 4 track cassette recorder. “Pebbles In My Mind” is a recent rework of the very last Jupiter Sun song we worked on, but I re-recorded it with me singing instead of Nate with new lyrics. (I allowed myself this one bit of revisionist history.) “Circus” and “I’m Over You” were done after Rob joined, but before Nate joined the band, in a professional studio with Jeff Stuart Saltzman. “We Can Take This Boat” was just a jam we recorded on cassette 4 track. It was also known as “Acufunkture”. Rob played on that. I think that was a demo for an e.p. that never came out on American Standard (see below).
They weren’t released because no one wanted to release them. We couldn’t really find a label to work with. For some reason, we never really followed up with Parasol. Not that they treated us bad, but they were based in Illinois and we were in California. We were supposed to do an e.p. with my friend Mike Sanders’ small label, American Standard, but we couldn’t agree on the track listing, so it was scrapped.
++ And are there even more unreleased songs by Jupiter Sun?
There’s about six unreleased songs from 1999 with Nate Rockwood singing lead instead of me. But there are still a few more tracks with me singing on them from before Nate joined. We have a few recordings of live shows that sound pretty good.
++ It is hard to pick one, but I think my favorite Jupiter Sun track is “Zookeeper”, was wondering if you could tell me the story behind this song?
I think Steve came up with the main bass line and the groove for the song. I worked out my guitar parts, the vocal melody, and the chords for the chorus I think, but it was a collaborative effort. I had friend from Wales named Nerys Williams, who was an exchange student at U.C. Berkeley back then. She told me once that she had a dream I was a zookeeper. I had that in mind when I wrote the lyrics. I was also inspired by the Simon and Garfunkel song “At the Zoo”, and “I Am The Walrus”. Nerys is a poet, and the way she spoke and wrote was very elegant, and I think she started me on the path to take lyrics more seriously. I think she is a professor now, but I haven’t spoken to her since about 2001.
++ If you were to choose your favorite Jupiter Sun song, which one would that be and why?
I’d probably say “Out of the Blue”, although I wish I had opportunity to re-record it with me singing. I wrote the lyrics on the plane on the way back from a backpacking trip to Europe. It was a personal song for me, and I don’t think the sentiment really comes across on the recording. Nate did a good job, but it’s really a song I wrote for myself to sing. I think I have a demo version with me singing before Nate joined the band. I like the descending chords in the song. Musically, that was one of those songs that just came out of nowhere without any struggle.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many? All over California? Any other states?
We played approximately 64 shows. I have a list that I have compiled after going through our old flyers, magazine ads, and our old website. I may have missed a few, but I don’t think so. We pretty much just played in San Jose and San Francisco. We played the Beautiful Noise Festival on October 13, 1995 in Mesa, AZ. We got invited to play that, and drove there to play that one night, and drove back the next day! Other than that, our only other out of town gig was in San Diego at a Britpop/Indie night called His ‘n’ Hers on August 8, 1998. We drove down for that one show also. It was last gig ever, if you don’t count the reunion shows we did in 2001.
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
I think our best gigs as far as playing to a big, receptive crowd was when we opened for The Boo Radleys 1993, and for Matthew Sweet in 1995. Either Sice or Martin from The Boo Radleys told us we were the best opening band they had had on their entire U.S. tour. It was only our 10th show. In 1994, we opened for Missing Persons, but really it was just a Dale Bozzio solo gig. She was a total diva, and we had no sound check and weren’t allowed backstage.
But my favorite show ever was in the basement of my girlfriend’s (now wife) house she rented while attending San Francisco State University. We called the event “My Little Underground.” We just had a bunch of our friends’ bands play. It was just a really great night with friends, and then it got broken up by the cops because we played too loud!
++ And were there any bad ones?
Oh yes. We played in a gig in San Francisco in 1998 and like three people showed up. The momentum for the band had just disappeared at that point.
++ When and why did Jupiter Sun stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?
The band broke up after Rob left the band to join Julie Plug. We considered having Ollie back in the band to play drums, and we even had a rehearsal or two with Ollie. But I was just burnt out, and I told Nate and Steve I wanted to stop. We weren’t really going anywhere at the time, and we didn’t really agree on the direction of the band at that point. I felt the band had run its course. In retrospect, I think we had boxed ourselves in creatively with the sound we had at the time, which was sort of Second Coming-era Stone Roses with some Oasis and Charlatans mixed in. I joined Paul’s new band Mover around 2000 as a guitarist, but that was only for about nine months. Paul and I also had a short-lived band called The Dunes around 2005. I also recorded a bunch of solo tracks. Rob played on at least one song.
++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?
Steve and Ollie formed a band called Sonic Orange. Rob was in Julie Plug, and a number of other bands after that. I don’t know if Nate was in another band. Paul Tyler formed a band called Mover, and later had a band called The Family Arsenal.
++ Has there ever been a reunion? Or talks of playing again together?
We played two reunion shows in 2001, with Steve, Ollie, and me. But that was only like 3 years after the band broke up. We have never seriously talked about playing again after that, though I would like to play those songs again someday, even if it was just in a rehearsal space.
++ Did you get much attention from the radio?
Our manager, Alan Salmassian, had a radio show at San Jose State University, and later at Santa Clara University. We did get support from local college radio. I think “Out of The Blue” got played once on Live 105, which was the alternative radio station in San Francisco, on some sort of local band spotlight.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
We got a lot of good press from local music papers, and a few national ones when “Atmosphere” came out. Parasol did promote the record. I still have all the clippings.
++ What about from fanzines?
We got interviewed for a number of fanzines. I think I have still have copies of most of the fanzines we were in. We got some letters from Japan and Europe as well. I was extremely poor at returning letters, mainly because I was really focused on writing songs back then. I apologize to everyone who sent us a letter and didn’t get a response.
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
I’m not sure. Probably opening for The Boo Radleys or Matthew Sweet. It was always great to play for a large audience. We usually played well at bigger shows. The adrenaline would sort of kick in. We were a pretty good live band.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
Ha! Playing Dungeons and Dragons was really the only other hobby I had that wasn’t music related. I used to watch a lot of artsy films. I like to travel, but is that really a hobby?
++ I was once in San Francisco, but it was such a long time ago. I always like to ask this question for those indiekids traveling to places, asking a local for some recommendations! What are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?
Sights? I’m not sure. I have never been to Alcatraz, even though I grew up here. San Francisco is way different now from the 90’s when we played gigs there. The tech industry has really affected the city, although there are still great parts of San Francisco. Indie kids should go to Mod Lang Records, but that’s in El Cerrito now. (I wonder if they still have the early Primal Scream singles on the wall.) There is a lot of great Asian food in San Jose, but not as good as Orange County and L.A.
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
I’d like to thank all the people mentioned earlier in the interview for their support of the band, or for just being a friend. In addition, I’d like to thank the following people who recorded, wrote about, took photos, did artwork, recorded videos, helped book gigs for us, or just were generally helpful: Mike Masuda, Tyler Kogura, Chris Bucholtz, Todd Inoue, Kuniko Vroman, John Bowman, Mike Abbott, Richard Winchell, Allen Campos, and Claudia Vo. And I’d like to thank all our friends and fans that supported us. (I’m sure I have forgotten someone, it was a long time ago.)
I’d like to especially thank Alan Salmassian, who managed the band, and is a great friend.
I’d also like to commemorate Paul Tyler and Jun Ragudo, who both are now deceased. Paul Tyler was one of my closest friends. I could always call him up and have a great conversation about guitars, Tolkien, and Big Star. Jun Ragudo was one of Steve’s best friends, and one of the most hilarious guys I’ve ever met. We wouldn’t have gotten the band off the ground if it wasn’t for Jun’s enthusiasm and outgoing personality.
I’m still in contact with Ollie, Steve, and Rob. I’m glad all these years later we are on friendly terms. Age has given us some perspective that we didn’t have at the time. I have very fond memories of that time, especially of just us in the rehearsal room playing for ourselves.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Listen
Jupiter Sun – Zookeeper
