++ Hi all! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

John: Well thanks. Yes, I still do stuff from time to time. Since Southville there has been Metrotone, Landshipping, Ojn and Tonfedd Oren with Rhys. My work rate is very low though.

Rhys: I record covers and things for my own amusement, but I need a sparring partner to motivate me for anything serious.

++ So is Tonfedd Oren still going? What would you say are similarities and differences between Southville and Tonfedd Oren?

John: We wouldn’t rule out doing some more. Life gets in the way though! Similarities? Not sure.

Rhys: Southville is lo-fi jangly indie guitar pop, while Tonfedd Oren is playful synth-based electronica with cut-up vocals. Both have made good use of short-wave radio noises.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

John: For me, the house was always full of the Beatles and Bowie.

Rhys: I’d developed a slow-burning obsession with the electric guitar since an early age. Most of the stuff I listened to early on was Welsh-language rock and pop – the Welsh Rare Beat compilations on Finders Keepers will you give you a good idea of that kind of thing. When I was 14, my friend from across the road started playing his mum’s old nylon-string acoustic and he taught me a few chords. We plotted to get electric guitars and form a band, which we eventually did! We were into rock and metal at the time, but later on I discovered the Smiths, The Cure, Jesus and Mary Chain, and read the NME religiously when I went to university.

++ Had you been in other bands before Southville? If so, how did all of these bands sound? Are there any recordings?

John: For me, there were a couple of home-recording projects, notably a track under the name The Locations on a cassette compilation called “Something’s Burning in Paradise Again”. Rhys was a legit pop star though!

Rhys: I wouldn’t go that far! I’d been in a few bands since I was 14 or 15 – not particularly successful, but I’d played live on stage regularly, writing songs (well, just the music part) and made a couple of tv appearances.

++ Where were you from originally?

John: I’m from Staffordshire. Rhys is from Ynys Môn.

Rhys: It’s the little island off the top of Wales.

++ How did you two meet?

Rhys: We were both postgrad students in 1990 and after the department’s Christmas meal there was always an unofficial party in the lab of one of the research groups, everybody would turn up in the afternoon and have a drink or two. I overheard John talk with somebody about recording songs on cassette so I butted in and asked him what kind of stuff he wrote. We had similar tastes so we made big plans but I didn’t expect anything to come of them. John turned up at my flat the next day with a Casio keyboard under his arm! I played him a song I’d written the music for my band which had just fizzled out and that became Looking From A Hilltop.

++ How was Aberystwyth at the time of Southville? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

John: We saw loads of bands, both English and Welsh-Language. I remember seeing Y Cyrff and being very impressed…. We saw a lot of pub rock at a place called Rummers too. Andy’s Records was a really good record shop with a knowledgeable owner.

Rhys: John thought Cyrff sounded like Echo and the Bunnymen. Cyrff had been my favourite band for a few years and were a great live act. Mark and Paul from the band went on to form Catatonia. The Welsh language scene was very lively at the time. The Students Union used to get some good bands now and again – I saw The Stone Roses and The House of Love there. The Sea Urchins played there as well but I missed them. Rummers was more pub-jazz though! Andy’s Records is still going strong, and I pop in when I have a chance. There was also a good record fair at the Students Union once a term, and I picked up a lot of good albums there for not much money.

++ I am aware of only a few fantastic Welsh bands of the early 90s but not that many, so I wonder if you have any recommendations for obscure bands that didn’t get a chance to make it?

Rhys: I introduced John to Datblygu, who were hugely influential, and Ffa Coffi Pawb – one of Gruff Rhys’s early bands. There is some great stuff around now as well – Mellt, Los Blancos, Adwaith, Papur Wal, Melin Melyn, Gwenno… You don’t have to understand the words to enjoy a good band.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

John: We’d usually come up with a tune and share it on cassette, and the other would go away and think of a way of adding to it.

Rhys: What we did quite a lot was once we’d sorted out the music and lyrics, and what we wanted it to sound like, we’d record all the parts and produce the finished song quite quickly – then over several weeks or months we’d refine the ideas, decide we could do a different guitar part, better vocals, a nice keyboard sound or something. So we’d go back and record a much better version. Quite a few songs exist as a rough version and a better version.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

John: The cassette compilation “Somethings Burning in Paradise Again” was put out by woman called Christina Williams who lived in Southville, Bristol. We thought it was a cool name, like a kind of name of a band who might support Uncle Tupelo or one of the Northwest USA indies we listened to… I actually ended up living in Southville years later, which is kind of an odd thing.

++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

John: The Smiths, REM, a lot of the Sarah bands. I remember listening to the Rockingbirds and the Go-Betweens a fair bit at the time.

Rhys: The Smiths and early REM were the big influences on how I played guitar and wrote songs, and John introduced me to the Go-Betweens and the Sarah bands. I loved the NME’s C86 compilation a few years earlier but I hadn’t realised that Sarah (and a host of others I’d come to know) was releasing that kind of stuff still.

++ I was surprised to see a compilation of your songs being released this year by Harriet Records. I didn’t know there was a relation with Tim from Harriet. When did it start? Was it for this compilation or does it go further back?

John: We sent him a demo in … what?… 1994? And he said he couldn’t do a single then. Maybe a compilation. 27 Years later he bought a Tonfedd Oren download on Bandcamp. We wrote to him to say thank you and he said “By the way, are you Southville?” and asked us if we wanted to do a CD!

++ I’ll come back to this compilation in a bit. Let’s go in order. Your first release was the “Looking from a Hilltop” 7″ on Pillarbox Red. This is a fine label with great releases but I know little about them. Who were they and how did you end up working with them?

John: Andrew from Pillarbox had heard the Locations track on “Something is Burning in Paradise Again” and said he liked it and did we have anything else? By that time Southville had started so it was very serendipitous.

++ Speaking of the title song, “Looking from a Hilltop”, was the song inspired by any hill perhaps in Aberystwyth, or not really?

John: Kind of – I always think of Constitution Hill in Aberystwyth.

Rhys: The view from there is the background on the inside of the CD booklet.

++ Before this release, had you already released demo tapes? Or were the songs on the 7″ your first recordings?

John: They were our first songs.

++ On the sleeve there’s a map, is it Aberystwyth? Or another place?

John: Yes its Aberystwyth, with the town name Tippexed out!

Rhys: We were concerned that we’d get into trouble with the Ordnance Survey (who publish maps)! It was all done with photocopiers, razor blades, glue, and Letraset.

++ There’s a song called “16th of April” and I was wondering, is this day an important day for you? Or why this date?

John: I was thinking of the 16^th April 1989, just a very odd day when no-one was at their best, against a backdrop of awful national events. I also thought that “16^th April” was a cool title.

++ I also was wondering about the sleeve of your next record, the “Inside and Out” 7″. Where was that photo taken?

John: My colleague Richard Bambrey, who is an excellent photographer, took the picture of a wave hitting the shore at Aberystwyth.

++ The “Inside and Out” 7″ has the same song on both sides. Was this on purpose? Why?

John: It was cheaper, and allowed us to sell the song, including postage, for under a pound in the UK. I love the fact there is only one song on it. No need for a b-side.

++ And do tell me about the new version of this song that is on the compilation. It was recorded many years later, in 2013. What made you rediscover and rework your song?

John: We’ve both always been proud of Inside and Out. When digital recording came along it Rhys did a new version of it. I put a new vocal on one day when I came over to do some Tonfedd Oren vocals.

Rhys: The original version was recorded very quickly… I think we did it in a morning after the weekend we spent recording Hilltop and the other songs for the first EP. At the time I don’t think we knew it was going to be coming out on record so it was kind of rushed, just to get the idea down and I made at least one glaring mistake trying to play the bass line I’d just written. Years later I have much nicer guitars and a much better recording setup, and I thought the song had more potential than the one we’d hurriedly recorded on a 4-track with a cheap microphone.

++ So only these two 7″s were released even though you had many more songs. How come? Was there any interest from other labels at the time?

John: No! There was a plan for a split LP on Pillarbox, and a single on Meller Welle. It was so expensive to do vinyl then. We were very keen to get on Sarah Records, and still have some quite inventive rejection letters from them!

Rhys: We though the Meller Welle EP was our best opportunity yet so decided to spend a weekend at a real studio to get at least a couple of songs recorded well. Neil the engineer managed to get a great sound from us, so it was disappointing that it didn’t come out at the time. There was also a cover of a Field Mice song we did for a tribute LP that didn’t happen either.

++ You did appear on tons of cassette compilations in the 90s. One tape label that released you a lot in your compilations was Grapefruit. Again if there’s anything you could tell me about them, that’d be great.

John: It was always good to do cassette compilations. Grapefruit was done by a chap called Simon Minter. We are still in touch – we follow each other on Twitter. He’s an excellent graphic designer and you can see it even then in these photocopied cassette inlays.

++ Your songs appeared on compilations in the US, Italy, Germany… How did it work in those pre-internet days? Did you ever meet the people behind these tapes?

John: No – in fact we weren’t aware of some of them! We send tapes out to people. It took a long time to get responses, and was quite an expensive and time consuming process to buy a cassette, record onto it, write a letter, send it out. I bumped into Karen White, who ran Pillarbox Red with Andrew Austin a few years ago and she described the whole letters-tapes-fanzines scene as “incredibly slow social media”!

Rhys: It was a good way to get some exposure. We had a load of songs recorded by then, so we were happy to “donate” one to a cassette compilation so that more people could get to hear us.

++ I am looking at the new compilation called “Across the Airwaves” and something that caught my attention is that you recorded many songs in Edinburgh. Did you move to Scotland at some point? Or how come you were recording that far from Wales?

John: Rhys had a job at the University of Edinburgh and, by accident, a year or two later I got one too. So there was a year or so when we overlapped there, and of course we met up and recorded songs.

Rhys: Ironically, we became very productive in terms of writing songs when were living far away from each other. John lent me his 4-track for a while and I recorded the music, then we’d met up for a weekend now and again and finish a couple of songs.

++ On the compilation there are 18 tracks. Are these all of your recordings or are there still unreleased songs waiting to be released?

John: There are others but I think these are about the best.

Rhys: I’m a bit of an archivist, and I think we have about 40 recorded tracks, plus a handful of unfinished ones. A lot of songs were recorded twice or even three times though. We’d record it quickly to get the idea down, then we’d think of more ideas and record it again more carefully, with more effort to get the right sound. There are a couple of others which could easily have made it onto the album, but between us and Tim I think we agreed on the best selection.

++ Lastly the CD includes the original Harriet rejection letter! How did you take it at the time and how did you take it now that Harriet is finally releasing all your songs?!

John: We have many, many rejection letters, Harriet was only one. Hearing from Tim was amazing though. Its excellent that these songs are having a second life.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Inside and Out”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

John: It is about a very specific incident, but its many years ago, and… all’s good now and I will say no more.

Rhys: I had some nice sounding jangly chords which I’d been playing for weeks but couldn’t work into a complete song. John cajoled me by suggesting random chords and it quickly came together. We’d also discovered how to program a cool new beat into the drum machine, which worked perfectly with the guitar part.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Southville song, which one would that be and why?

John: “Inside and Out” – I love the fragility and the vague grooviness. I also like “She Says” and the four tracks on the first single. “Sometimes…” as well.

Rhys: I quite like “Underneath The Sky” at the moment because I think it marked a point where my songwriting had progressed, I was arranging more varied guitar parts and programming the drum machine in a more realistic way. The sound and the lyrics just takes me back to carefree summer Saturday afternoons in my flat in Aberystwyth in the early 90s.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

None

++ When and why did The Southville stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

John: We moved apart, we had other priorities. I did Metrotone, Landshipping, Ojn… Tonfedd Oren has been lots of fun.

Rhys: I only really played for my own amusement, so I was glad when John sent me some demos of his electronic stuff that became Tonfedd Oren. A totally different way of working for me, but yes, a lot of fun creating the tracks.

++ Has there been any Southville reunions?

John: We have been out for a pint together on occasion if that’s what you mean?

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

John: We got on the radio in France and Belgium. I think that kind of sound made much more sense there than it did in the UK.

Rhys: I remember a small college radio station somewhere in the USA playing us as well, but the radio play was quite sporadic I think. And of course at the time, we couldn’t hear it! The new CD has been picked up by a couple of blogs already so hopefully it will get some radio play.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

John: None whatsoever!

++ What about fanzines?

John: Yes, quite a few. We were very pleased to have a long piece in a beautiful zine called “Soft White Underbelly”. There were odd bits and pieces in French zines and “Swinging Ruislip”, the Pillarbox in-house fanzine.

Rhys: We made a demo tape to send to prospective labels and it ended up being reviewed by a publication called Sun Zoom Spark, which was much glossier and substantial than the usual photocopied fanzines.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

John: The first single arriving in the post!

Rhys: Andrew and Karen had sent them to John and he came round to my flat. I went to make coffee and he left them on the table, waiting for me to notice! It took me a couple of minutes because I was expecting the covers to be black and white, not red.

++ Never been to Aberystwyth so I’d like to ask a local about what you would suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

John: Just walk along the sea front on a sunny evening.

Rhys: I’ve had the opportunity to spend time in Aberystwyth regularly again. It’s kind of completely different to how it was, but still the same, if you see what I mean. There are are a few interesting restaurants there now, hidden away. And of course Andy’s Records is still going strong.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

The text from the CD booklet, in case you find it useful:

So: Rhys and John, grad students in Aberystwyth, on the coast of Wales, six hours from London, but in a different country. It’s Christmas 1990 and at a party we start talking about music. We agree on the Smiths, Jesus and Mary Chain, and bands who became Catatonia and the Super Furry Animals. Rhys had been in a couple of Welsh-language bands, had made an album, been on the television; John had some home recordings and a pile of rejection letters. Maybe we could try recording something ourselves?

One of John’s solo tracks on a cassette compilation (based in Southville, Bristol) attracted a DIY label in London called Pillarbox Red, run by Karen White and Andrew Austin, one of many small labels producing cheap, short run 7”s made in newly-open Eastern Europe and selling them at gigs and by mail order in the UK, Europe and the US — new, relaxed customs rules in Europe had recently made this cheaper and easier. Fanzines and home-duplicated compilation tapes spread news and music, loosely clustered around a group of bands, writers, fans and labels inspired by the DIY ethic of Sarah Records. John met Karen 20 years later. She succinctly encapsulated the scene as a “kind of extremely slow social media…”

A demo followed, recorded on a hired 4-track, which led to two Pillarbox Red singles, and more compilation cassettes. The songs reflected the time and our situation: set in the kitchens of shared houses; concerning letters that are written or not, received or not; (phone calls were expensive, email a rarity); the yearning to join in with a different, wider world, yet a preoccupation with the psychogeography of the quietly amazing place we lived in (“Before you go, think of me, looking from a hilltop to the sea”). The singles got on a small, syndicated Belgian radio show. We sent out demos to labels and fanzines. People began to write from abroad — French women, German men… we never did understand why things split like that.

New influences came: the beginnings of Britpop and shoegaze, dance beats. Tapes of US bands via Pillarbox Red. Political and environmental concerns. Together we watched Welsh music TV, Rhys filling the gaps in John’s understanding of the language. We moved out of Aber to respective jobs across the UK, swapped tapes in the post, recorded some demos over a few weekends, overlapped in 1996 by accident in Edinburgh and recorded three tracks for a German single that didn’t happen, in a real studio.

Our lives diverged. Music kept us in touch despite working on our own musical projects. In the early 2010s we worked together again on some tracks as Tonfedd Oren (tonfeddoren.bandcamp.com) which resulted in a single on orange vinyl which still gets regular radioplay, and we revisited “Sometimes…” and “Inside and Out”.

So this was Southville. Thanks Tim at Harriet Records, for this chance to listen again and put it in context. I think I finally know what I was singing about: “A feeling of joining a silent tradition without knowing quite what it meant.”

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Listen
Southville – Inside and Out

Thanks so much to Tony Gauslin for the interview! I wrote about the one-off project Boy Mouse, Girl Mouse years ago on the blog! The band formed by him and Beth (Aberdeen, Jetstream Pony and many more) released one song you can imagine that there was very little info about the band. Happily Tony was up to fill in the blanks and also tell us more about other music projects he has been involved with!

++ Hi Tony! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Hi Roque. Thanks for asking me to do this. I’m doing well – managing to survive in a world that lately seems to get a new wrench thrown into it every few months. A lot of that is thanks to having music to fall back on to distract me from life.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

First music memories? Probably hearing my dad listening to Zeppelin, Heart, Pink Floyd, and Fleetwood Mac in the late 70s. My first instrument was drums/percussion, which I started in 6th grade. I was a serious band nerd growing up and was in band through all of junior high and high school. The music program was a pretty serious thing where I lived. Marching band/drumline, symphonic band, after-school percussion ensemble, pit band for a couple musicals, etc. The private lessons that I took only focused on drum set for the first year or two, then I switched instructors and instead focused more on orchestral percussion (concert snare, tympani, marimba/xylophone/other mallet percussion).

I got a guitar for my 16th birthday and pretty much have been self-taught on that, bass, and piano/keyboards since then. As for what I listened to growing up, that’s kind of all over the place. The classic rock stuff that my dad listened to, obviously, but I was also exposed to Rush through some kid in the neighborhood when I was like 7. Around that time I also started listening to Top 40 radio and watching music video shows, so I got a healthy dose of early 80s pop and new wave. By high school my favorite bands were the Pixies, the Cure, and Dinosaur Jr, though I also was listening to Young Fresh Fellows, Poster Children, some Dischord stuff, generally whatever was angsty and loud but with some sense of melodicism in there. I fell down the indiepop rabbithole when I went off to college in 92 and started working at the radio station. From then on it was all about Slumberland, Simple Machines, K, TeenBeat, SpinArt, Pop Narcotic, Harriet, Merge, Sarah, etc etc. Mostly US-based stuff, though, since that’s what I had easier access to at the time.

++ Where are you from originally?

My family moved every few years when I was growing up, so we primarily bounced between the DC suburbs and Southern California (where my dad is from). But the formative years were spent in Fairfax, VA.

++ How was LA at the time of Boy Mouse, Girl Mouse? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

I was in LA for a few years leading up to 2000, and it was kind of a weird place. Definitely drastically different from the massive DIY thing that DC had going on, though there was certainly an undercurrent of it. I got to witness the final days of No Life Records, which was probably my favorite shop there. Rhino deserves a mention, but that’s mostly because it wasn’t too far from where I lived. Most of the good “bigger” indie bands played the Silverlake Lounge if they even came through town. The Smell was interesting. Saw a few good shows at some hole in the wall down in Long Beach whose name I forget (including the first time I was blown away by the Aislers Set when that first album came out). There were some other shops and venues around, but it’s been over 20 years and their names slip my mind at the moment.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

IIRC, a week or two before the Family Twee project came up Beth had given me a drawing that she made of a pair of mice with a little verse about them. When we decided to record the song she threw that out as a name and it stuck.

++ And how did this project start? Were you and Beth friends already? How did you two meet?

++ She was of course in Aberdeen, a band many of us are big fans of, did you have the chance to see them live?

I never did see them live. They had already broken up when Beth and I met. I did have a chance to see them once after they reformed, but I ended up not going.

++ Had you been in other bands before Boy Mouse, Girl Mouse? If so, how did all of these bands sound? Are there any recordings?

I was in a bad cover band for a short bit in high school, but that doesn’t count. Then there was the aforementioned project where I met Beth, which was led by a guy who worked at KCRW, the NPR station in Santa Monica. Recordings of that do exist, but I don’t think he ever released them.

A year or so after the BMGM song I got together and played bass with two guys who were in Bunny Summer, which was an early Rachel Blumberg band (they had a 7″ out on SpinArt). We practiced 4 or 5 times and got up to the point of talking about playing an open mic night somewhere, but then I started a new job and it all kind of fell apart. When I moved a few years later I still had the bass that I had borrowed from them. So Jeff and Adam, sorry about that…

++ After this project I know you were in a band called Color and Shapes with Laura Watling, right? Again, I have to ask as both Beth and Laura are two of the most well-known women in indiepop in the US, how did you two meet and what prompted both to start a project?

I met Laura at one of the poplucks (potluck dinner/living room concert) that she put on out in Riverside when I was in the LA area and got to know her there a bit. We both moved up to the San Francisco area around the same time and she asked about playing together. She brought her cassette 8-track over to my apartment and recorded me playing some acoustic guitar once or twice, then took that home and finished them up. I did go to her place in Santa Rosa and recorded some lightly brushed drums for one of the tracks, but I don’t believe those got used.

++  Speaking of Color and Shapes, you were telling me a tape was released? I had no clue. Who put it out? What songs were on it? Are there more unreleased tracks?

Raoul from Popgun put a tape out at some point. I found out about it maybe around 2005/6 or so when a friend messaged me and told me he had bought a copy. I don’t have a copy of it but I think it had two songs on it, which I’m pretty sure are the only two that we recorded (though again, there were drums for one, so there might be an alt mix out there).

++ You are now making music under the name The Quiet Corners, and the songs are great! Was wondering when did you start this project and if there are any news coming up for this project?

Sometime in 2015 I ordered a cheap bass online to mess around with. When it showed up I dug out my cassette 4-track to see if it still worked. Within a few minutes I ended up coming up with the chords that became Goodbye Wherever. I quickly threw a bass line on that and recorded a (poorly played) drum track on my frankensteined electronic drum kit. I had previously dubbed the little practice area in the corner of my living room as “the quiet corner” since I could bang away on the v-drums with headphones on pretty much whenever I wanted (it was a ground floor apartment with thick walls and a garage on the other side of the wall). The name stuck even though it took another 5 years for me to get some other stuff recorded and released.

As for the future, I’m constantly messing around and coming up with little musical phrases or chord progressions that I then flesh out a bit and promptly forget. All of the recordings I’ve made so far are the times when I’ve actually bothered plugging everything together and hitting the record button. I have a few ideas that have been bouncing around my head for too long that I need to record, so there will be more stuff posted someday. I also need to sit down and record some Erik Satie piano pieces that I learned while teaching myself piano over the past few years. I’d like to get both of those done by the end of the summer, but we’ll see.

++ It seems there were many small indiepop bands in California in those late 90s, many that had great music but didn’t make it. I wonder if you have any recommendations for obscure bands that didn’t get a chance to make it?

Unfortunately that’s about the time I began falling away from the indiepop world, so I can’t really help you there.

++ As far as I know Boy Mouse, Girl Mouse was a one-off project, right? Or were more songs recorded?

Correct, just the one song. Nothing else exists.

++ The song that I am aware of, “Make Like We’re Not Sad” was included in a compilation called “Family Twee” that was put together by Skippy of March Records. What made you want to be part of it?

At some point in 1997 someone on the indiepop-list threw out the idea of releasing a compilation of songs contributed by list members. Specifics were hashed out regarding track length, payment, etc (you’d have to check the list archives for specific details on it). IIRC, Skippy took the reins on it, which I’m sure is a decision he quickly regretted. I asked Beth if she wanted to do a song for it, we checked whether we could do a longer song if we pooled resources and that was that (that’s why our track was ~4:30 minutes while everyone else’s had a 2:30 cap).

++ This compilation mostly features people that were involved in the indiepop-list email group. Were you active in the mailing list? How did you like this email forum?

I joined the indiepop-list in 1995, back when the internet was a very different world. Back then there seemed to be only a handful of places to discuss that sort of music online and there was definitely a sense of community from the various popfests and meetups. Even a severe introvert like myself managed to meet a lot of great people over the years (keeping in touch, well that’s another story).

++ I really like the song “Make Like We’re Not Sad”. Care telling me the story behind it? Where was it recorded? Did it take long to put together?

The whole thing was surprisingly quick. I wrote and recorded the instrumental tracks in my bedroom on my PowerMac one weekend after we decided to contribute a song. I gave a tape with a rough mix to Beth, she came up with the lyrics, then came over and recorded them a week or two later. There were some issues regarding horrible monitoring latency when she recorded those due to the jury-rigged setup we used, but she somehow managed (she wouldn’t let me into the room while she recorded the vocals). There were a couple rounds of mixing and the tape was sent off. And that’s the story of the birth and death of BMGM.

++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of your different bands?

++ After recording this wonderful song, you didn’t think about continuing this project?

Beth and I had a falling out not too long after the song was recorded, so there really wasn’t anything to continue. But I’m certainly open to working with Beth again if she were up to it. But I wouldn’t get your hopes up.

++ One thing that I thought was funny was that a year later after the release of the “Family Twee” CD you were saying you hadn’t received a copy. In the end you did receive one, right?

I did have to email Skippy more than a few times to eventually get some copies.

++ On this CD we see many friends and bands, was wondering which are your favourite tracks on it? And if you were familiar with any of the projects at all?

It’s been years since I’ve even looked at the disc, let alone listened to it (it’s stuck away in a box of CDs in the garage somewhere). I do remember there were a few tunes that I did like, but I couldn’t tell you who or what they were at this point.

++ If you were to choose your favorite song of yours, which one would that be and why?

I kind of like how “We Are Going Nowhere” came out despite the fact that it never really goes anywhere (yes, the title is a little self-referential). And Goodbye Wherever has some of that quick bash-it-out sensibility that I like. But I like to imagine that my favorite song is still to come.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? With which bands?

One C&S gig where we opened for Aerospace from Sweden. No comment.

++ Having collaborated with both Beth and Laura, I have to ask who else in the indiepopworld has made music with you?!

Nobody, because as far as I know nobody’s ever been interested. If you are, hit me up! Especially if you can provide vocals and/or assistance and feedback on arrangement and composition. tgauslin[at]gmail.com

++ Was there any interest in your music from the radio? TV?

A handful of people from the indiepop-list played the BMGM song on their college radio shows, which I know about because they posted their playlists to the list each week. If there was any interest beyond that, I’m not aware of it. I do recall Beth telling me she played the song for Matt from Sarah and that he liked it, so there’s that.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

One time the guy from Cloudberry Records asked about an interview for his blog. 😉

++ What about fanzines?

Again, not that I’m aware of.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for you as a musician?

Honestly, at this point I’m touched that people still like and remember the very first song I ever recorded, even if it is mostly remembered because of Beth’s involvement.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

Reading, getting out for bike rides, and getting away from screens to play some mind-numbing hours-long strategic board games. (Though I’m terrible at them I loves me some 18xx. CCMF!)

++ Been to Los Angeles once but I’d like to ask a local about what you would suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

It’s been decades since I’ve been there, so I can’t really help you. But you’re doing yourself a disservice if you find yourself in California and don’t spend a few hours basking in the sun just staring out at the Pacific.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks so much for listening and being interested enough to interview me. I really appreciate it. Take care!

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Listen
Boy Mouse, Girl Mouse – Make Like We’re Not Sad

++ Hi Dave! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Hi Roque, we got there eventually! Thanks for your interest.

I’ve not made any music since JFOE. I did help out at local gigs a few years ago. I’m still a big music fan. I still buy stuff and go to see bands live. And not just old stuff, I still seek out new music, unlike a lot of folk my age.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

I suppose if we’re going right back, then things like Slade and The Sweet. I didn’t grow up in a house with music, so it will have been seeing bands like Buzzcocks and The Jam on Top Of The Pops that alerted the 12/13-year-old me that there might be something exciting about music.

I played the bass guitar because I wasn’t particularly interested in learning an instrument but wanted to be in a band, and the bass seemed like a fairly quick way in. I learnt in Bubblegum Splash! Before I even knew what the notes were called, Jim and me would write down what I had to play on sheets of paper. Very punk rock!

++ Had you been in other bands before  Jane from Occupied Europe? I know you were in Bubblegum Splash, but maybe others? I also had read something of a band called Ms. Taylor’s Mad? If so, how did all of these bands sound? Are there any recordings?

Bubblegum Splash! was the first band I was in. Me and Jim were old school friends, and we shared a lot of the same musical interests. We wanted to start a band after seeing The Jesus And Mary Chain and Shop Assistants. It looked exciting and something we could do. Even though we couldn’t play – a minor detail! He’d played the bass in a student band in Northampton, learnt a couple of chords on the guitar and I had his bass.

Mrs. Taylor’s Mad was a band Dave Ware had with his brother Andy around the time we had Bubblegum Splash! They were quirky in a Monochrome Set kind of way. I don’t know if there’s any recordings around.

Colin was an old school mate of Jim’s. He wasn’t into the same things as the rest of us, but could play better than any of us. When we decided we needed a proper sit-down drummer, Phil joined. He was in Salisbury to go to the local Art College and socialised with the rest of us.  I don’t think either of them had been in bands before.

++ I interviewed Nikki from Bubblegum Splash many years ago, but would love to hear your thoughts about the band. How did you enjoy Bubblegum Splash? Why did it last so little and only recorded a handful or so of songs? And what similarities and differences you seee between Bubblegum Splash and Jane from Occupied Europe?

Bubblegum Splash! was us learning to play and be in a band. Most people learn to play a bit and then do it in public. We did it the other way around. I think we annoyed a few people but that wasn’t the intention. We were just doing what we wanted to do to the best of our abilities, which were pretty limited! It was fun, and looking back, I suppose I wish we’d played more gigs. As for releases, I think an E.P., a flexi and a couple of songs on a compilation album was about right. Much more would have been pushing it!

Jane From Occupied Europe was us continuing to learn to play and with it becoming more ambitious. 

Ambition was always far greater than ability.

++ What about the other members, had they been in other bands?

Jim had played bass in a student band in Northampton and that was it. We were novices.

++ Where were you from originally?

Salisbury, although I was in Sheffield and Jim was in Northampton,  both studying,, when we decided to start a band. We moved back home when we finished because things were happening musically, sort of.

++ How did you meet?

We knew we wanted a female singer in the band, and we hadn’t found anyone suitable.  Me and Jim were having a drink one night when we saw a girl wearing a Mary Chain t-shirt. Jim plucked up the courage to ask her if she wanted to be in a band and Nikki said yes. I think drink may have played a part on both sides. Little did she know we had a gig in about three weeks’ time!

++ How was Salisbury at the time of Jane from Occupied Europe? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

It was quite lively for a fairly small place, much more so than now, although that might be my age. Around at the same time as us were The Mayfields and The Badgeman. We were all friends, shared houses, supported each other. Mad Cow Disease were a little bit older than us and doing pretty well on the industrial metal scene. A bit later came The Nuthins, from our group of friends.

There were a couple of record shops. The Arts Centre was a great venue, plenty of bigger bands would play and we’d get the chance to support. Pubs tended to have a lot of covers bands and musos. Landlords insisting you played for a certain length of time. We weren’t interested in that and even if we’d wanted to, we couldn’t have done it. One pub, long since gone, that was very supportive was the Fisherton Arms. The guy who ran it also had an independent record shop. We also put on our own gigs at the City Hall and other local halls.

++ In the late 80s and early 90s there were many great indiepop bands in the UK, so I wonder if you have any recommendations for obscure bands that didn’t get a chance to make it? Maybe that you shared gigs with them?

I doubt I was listening to anything that folk who read your website would think was obscure. There was so much around to enjoy, it was an exciting time. There still is but I don’t suppose I get that thrill as often.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

In Bubblegum Splash! Jim wrote complete songs and showed us what to play and sing. In Jane From Occupied Europe, it probably started like that, but as time went on and we became more competent, Jim (and later Dave too) wrote the basics themselves and we turned them into band songs.

We practiced wherever we could. Church halls, each other’s houses. There weren’t really any dedicated practice places back then.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

It’s the title of Swell Maps’ second LP. Although Jim and me both liked them, they weren’t really an influence. But Bubblegum Splash! did a cover of H.S.Art by Swell Maps, so there’s a tenuous link for you! No, it was more to do with the fact that at the time a lot of bands had short, often one word, names, and we waned to be different. It was a bit of a mouthful though, and a lot of people referred to us as the Janies.

++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

I suppose the Mary Chain were always there. Then things like Spacemen 3 and Loop, hypnotic stuff.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Ocean Run Dry”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

You’d have to ask Jim for the definitive answer, if he could remember. I think it’s about growing up, looking back at your youth, and looking ahead to the future, not knowing what it holds.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Jane from Occupied Europe song, which one would that be and why?

I’m not sure if we ever bettered “Ocean Run Dry”. It feels complete.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

I don’t know the exact number, somewhere between 50 and 100.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

We tried not to overdo playing in Salisbury but looking down from the Arts Centre stage at a crowded audience was nice.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Plenty! We seemed to struggle when the sound wasn’t quite right. And trying to mix three guitars, and an organ in some songs, wasn’t always easy.

++ When and why did Jane from Occupied Europe making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

I moved from the area, so I left the band. Just before the album was coming out – great timing! The others carried on for a bit, but I don’t think they had the spark.

++ Has there been any Jane from Occupied Europe reunions?

No. I don’t think it would be logistically possible even if we wanted to, which we wouldn’t. It was hard enough getting things arranged when we were in one place.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

We had a few plays from John Peel. A home made video for “Little Valley Town”  was shown on late night national television.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

We did a feature for the NME on new bands. We had some gig reviews (good and awful!).

++ What about fanzines?

We had a bit but I don’t think we really pushed it. I think Bubblegum Splash! probably had more, probably because we fitted the indie pop thing more.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

I think just doing what we did when we weren’t the most talented, or always the best organised, was an achievement in itself.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

Football is a big one, Salisbury FC. We play in the Southern League, three levels below the Football League. At that level it’s as much about the social aspect as the football itself.  Lots of people you’d struggle to keep in touch with without it. I’ve always been a bit of a statto  and have provided stats and historical articles for the club’s matchday programme for many years and that’s just grown. For the past season I’ve been the programme editor. It’s how clubs at our level keep going, people doing what they can. I go to virtually all the home matches and any away matches I can get to.

++ Never been to Salisbury so I’d like to ask a local about what you would suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

It’s not the most exciting place, fairly sleepy and with an ageing population. The Cathedral is worth a visit. Not something I appreciated when I was younger, but it’s pretty spectacular. Stonehenge is nearby. I’m interested in stone circles and other neolithic sites. It’s not my favourite site but one of the most well known in the world.

There aren’t the pubs there used to be but still some historic ones and some well noted for their Real Ale like the Wyndham Arms and The Village. The Arts Centre is still there, a lovely venue in an old church. Unfortunately it doesn’t have music like it used to, just occasionally now which is a shame. The only place regularly promoting original live music is a  pub venue called The Winchester Gate. It’s a tiny venue but seems to do quite well.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

I think we’ve covered everything there is to cover! Thanks for continuing to listen to the music and still being interested.

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Listen
Jane From Occupied Europe – Ocean Run Dry

++ Hi Reg! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Still above ground and happy to do this interview. I switched from being a drummer and currently play bass in Ottawa band Good2Go ( good2go.bandcamp.com ). We play regularly in clubs/bars around the greater Ottawa area and have been together for 22 years.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories?

My mother used to sing along to the radio to stuff like Dylan’s Blowin In The Wind so I guess it all started with tunes on AM radio in the early 60’s.

++ Do you remember what your first instrument was?

Pots and pans used to drive my Mom nuts. Then it was the piano but I wanted to be a drummer. I like making noise.

++How did you learn to play it?

I took piano lessons which I hated.

++ What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

In the early days it was whatever was on CFRA or CFGO radio usually ’60 and early ’70s’s classic rock

++ Had you been in other bands before the Scarlet Drops? If so, how did all of these bands sound? Are there any recordings?

I played in bands in high school but when punk rock hit I was hooked and some of my friends disowned me saying I had lost my mind. I remember going record shopping with some friends who liked jazz and prog rock and I bought a couple of punk albums ( Ramones and Sex Pistols ) and they laughed at me. The clerk behind the counter said “Wow man good choices” so I felt vindicated. The punk/new wave bands that I was in before Scarlet Drops were The Clones, U-Mens and the Restless Virgins. An unreleased live recording of the U-Mens exists somewhere and I played with Restless Virgins for about 20 months but didn’t release anything while I was in the band.

++ What about the other members, had they been in other bands?

++ Where were you from originally?

I was born in Winnipeg Manitoba, Dan was born in Pinawa, Manitoba and Deb was born in Timmins, Ontario.

++ How did you all meet? I notice you all have the last name Allen… are you related or how was the recruiting process?

Dan is my younger brother and Deb was my wife. I met Deb through friends while I was playing drums in the Restless Virgins.

++ How was Ottawa at the time of the Scarlet Drops? Were there any bands that you liked?

Ottawa had a small but thriving scene. Resin Scraper, Fluid Waffle, Crash 13, Randypeters, Daisy Killers were all cool bands.

++ Were there any good record stores?

Record Runner was where I bought most of my records. Other cool stores were Shake Records and Record On Wheels .

++ Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

The Downstairs Club, One Step Beyond, Zaphods ( Rideau St) and Barrymores were the places we used to go and see bands.

++ I am aware of some fantastic Canadian bands of the 80s and early 90s but not that many, so I wonder if you have any recommendations for obscure bands that didn’t get a chance to make it?

Off the top of my head… UIC ( great band), The Nils, DOA, The Subhumans, Purple Toads, Doughboys, L’Etranger, Sons of Freedom, The Gruesomes, Teenage Head were bands that probably should have been a lot bigger in America.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

Dan mostly came up with song ideas as he was the guitarist, but Deb and I also wrote a few tunes as well. Some tunes were created from jamming like Renny’s Riot. We practiced twice a week in a garage that we had sealed off so the noise wouldn’t attract Bylaw officers.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

Basically made up quickly before our first show at Bert’s Bar in Algonquin College in the fall of 1983.

++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

Geeez everybody The Clash, the Ramones, X, Dead Kennedys, Jimi Hendrix, Velvet Underground, Motorhead, the list could go on and on.

++ Last year Harriet Records made a comeback and one of their first releases was a retrospective by the Scarlet Drops. Had you been in touch with Tim all this time, or did this come as a surprise? Did it take a long time to put together this compilation?

It took about 10 months to get it finished. Part of the problem was to locate all the reel to reel and DAT tapes so we could get the best results sound wise. Most of them were in storage in Vancouver. Then everything had to be compiled and mastered. I hadn’t been in contact with Tim very often until we connected via social media and he sent a mp3 of Early In the Morning taken from an old cassette tape. That was the spark that got the project rolling.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Cling”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Honestly…Can’t remember…it was 30+ years ago.

++ If you were to choose your favorite the Scarlet Drops song, which one would that be and why?

I don’t really have a favorite SD tune. I tend to like different tunes on different days. Same goes with favorite bands.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Scarlet Drops played about 60 or 70 shows. Some years were busy and other years we’d be gigging less.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Opening for Social Distortion was fun. Mike Ness has a reputation for being an asshole but he was nice to us. Playing at Irene’s Pub was always fun as well. One night when we played there we played so loud the dart boards fell off the wall.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Not that I can remember….but there were a fews shows that were sort of lacklustre ….probably my fault as I wasn’t playing the tunes fast enough.

++ When and why did the Scarlet Drops stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

The Scarlet Drops ended in ’92. Dan was going to Toronto for school and Deb wanted to focus on the kids without the constant hassle of looking for babysitters etc. I continued to play with Dan in Gleaming Speed Heap which was a sporadic sort of band and then in 1999 I formed Good2Go ( good2go.bandcamp.com ) with singer Maureen Hogan.

++ Has there been any the Scarlet Drops reunions?

Nope and there probably never will be.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

CKCU-FM in Ottawa were great as they played Scarlet Drops on a regular basis as they did with a lot of other local bands. A few of our live shows were filmed by Rogers Cable 22. We also got played by various college stations in the U.S. and Canada.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

Actually some of the best press we received was from College Music Journal (CMJ) in NYC. As well CKCU had a publication called Trans FM that gave us some great coverage.

++ What about fanzines?

Incite was great and Tim did a few reviews. Also What Wave , Maximum Rock n Roll and Flipside reviewed our cassettes/singles and gave Scarlet Drops positive reviews.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Getting the great review in CMJ and having singles released on Harriet Records was pretty exciting.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

I used to walk/hike a lot but not so much anymore as I’m fat, old and lazy.

++ Never been to Ottawa so I’d like to ask a local about what you would suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

Ottawa is a fantastic place with a metro population of 1.5 million. If you’re into outdoor activities like hiking, boating, skating , rock climbing, camping, getting chased by bears and moose then Ottawa’s a great place to visit. Ottawa also has some great live venues and festivals to check out.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks so much for the interview. Please check out the attached SD tunes.

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Listen
Scarlet Drops – Cling
Scarlet Drops – Accept These Ways (unreleased)
Scarlet Drops – On a Beautiful Day (unreleased)

Thanks so much to Mark Wilsher for the interview! I wrote about Faith Over Reason months ago and while I was away, leaving the blog on a well-deserved holiday, Mark got in touch. He was very kind to answer my questions and this way, learn a bit more about this great South London band!

++ How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?

The four of us were all from the South London area, actually more like right on the fringes of the suburbs. I was the last to join after meeting Bill Lloyd and Simon Roots at a party. They had some songs and needed a drummer. I first met Moira Lambert when I turned up to play and she’d already written half a dozen songs or so. I thought they sounded great. Before that I’d only jammed and got drunk with friends from school so it was a significant step up.

Simon and Bill had been at school together, and Bill had briefly dated Moira who also lived just along the road from him in Coulsdon right on the edge of the countryside.

++ During your time there were many great independent pop bands in the UK, so I wonder if you have any recommendations for obscure bands that didn’t get a chance to make it?

I always thought that Shelleyan Orphan should have received more attention. There’s a brilliant box set available from One Little Indian.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

We were so young when we started, just 19. We rehearsed in Bill’s bedroom which was in the roof of his parents’ bungalow. We’d put his bed up against the wall and set up anywhere we could. I remember drinking a lot of tea, eating instant noodles and sitting out on the roof smoking with a view over a little valley of houses.

As things went on we soundproofed the garage at Moira’s folks’ house and used that as a practice room. It wasn’t very soundproof so I can only apologise to the neighbours now! Moira was the main songwriter and she would usually turn up with something fairly complete written on an acoustic guitar, which we would work out an arrangement for.

++ I don’t know if you know the answer, but I was curious about where in Africa Moira grew up and if that African upbringing brought anything to the band’s music?

I think she grew up for a bit in Istanbul, her Dad was working there. She talked about the flowers painted on the walls, and we had a song named after the famous mosque Hagia Sophia. She talks about this on one of the tracks on our album Easy, but you have to listen hard as it’s buried in the mix.

I think she was actually more influenced by her family’s Scottish roots, singing folks songs at drunken get togethers and so on.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

We just couldn’t think of anything better! It’s a name that – shall we say – reflects who we were at that time in 1989. I think we all grew to dislike the name but we were stuck with it after a few years. People either thought we were a Christian rock band, or else mixed us up with Faith No More.

++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

We were into all the moody indie stuff that was about in the mid to late 80s. The Cure, Cocteau Twins, Jesus and Mary Chain, U2, The Sugarcubes, that kind of thing. All the American acts that 4AD signed had a big impact too – Pixies, Throwing Muses. Anything on 4AD basically.

We were encouraged to explore British folk music more by our manager Abbo, so we got into Nick Drake, The Pentangle, Fairport Convention, Roy Harper. Moira was quite into Neil Young, Crosby Stills & Nash, Joni Mitchell of course, and she loved to watch CMTV on cable too.

++ Moira was on vocals for Saint Etienne’s “Only Love Can Break Your Heart”, I was wondering what was the band’s connection with Saint Etienne, you mention it was through Pete Wiggs brother?

There was one pub in Croydon where everyone into alternative music went, The Ship. There was a really diverse mix of goths, indie kids, greebos and old rockers who drank there, with a couple of big skinhead lads on the door. That’s where I met Pete’s brother Danny and we were very close for a few years. When his brother and Bob Stanley decided to start a band they had the idea of using different singers for each song, so they asked Moira to record a couple of demos for them. It took about five hours to record from start to finish in a bedroom studio and was never even meant to be released. But it went on to be a massive cult hit – I still hear it on the radio thirty years later, it’s amazing. They gave her some money when it became clear it was doing well. Whenever I hear it now it takes me right back to that bedroom studio.

There was such a huge division between what we used to call “dance” music and indie music. The Rave explosion had been just a couple of years before and a lot of my friends were into banging techno. So we didn’t take advantage of having our singer on this big club hit, in fact we tried to play it down. It’s hard now to understand just how big that cultural divide was, but it seemed important at the time. Things relaxed a bit by the mid-90s and you started to get more guitar based bands in the charts and more musical crossovers generally.

++ Your records came out on Big Cat. Who were behind this label and how did you end up working with them? Did you have a good relationship?

Abbo approached us after a gig at a small venue called the Bull & Gate in North London. He had a management company (with Linda Obadiah) that had success with EMF so there was some money around. His thing was to licence interesting acts from the States, like Will Oldham and Pavement. I remember he was always saying that it was the song that was important, and I guess that’s what he saw in Moira and in us as a band. He managed to get us a publishing deal with Polygram which was amazing, and we used his record label Big Cat for the releases.

Abbo was an ex-punk (the singer from UK Decay) and 10 years older than us, and he showed great faith in us for several years. We got new instruments, amps, a Ford transit van, a tiny weekly salary, and loads of great stories from his rock n roll years. Bill would often do bits of work for the label, delivering things around in his van, helping out in the office – Bill was the most focussed and ambitious out of all of us I think, and it paid off for him.

++ And was there interest from any other labels?

Really early on, within about four months of forming, Island Records had asked us to come in and meet them, and paid for a day in a studio to record some rough demos. But they passed – we were pretty unformed at that point so I don’t blame them. We had a bit of interest from 4AD and Rough Trade but nothing came of it in the end.

++ You worked closely with producer Barry Clempson. How did you enjoy working with him?

Barry had worked with both Shelleyan Orphan and The Sundays, so it should have been a great fit for us. But we were quite dissatisfied with the clinical sound we ended up with on those two EPs. At that time, after all the excesses of 80s chart music, anything that suggested ‘over production’ was ideologically suspect! We were already heading in a more loose direction.

++ In 1991 the band released a collection of demos called “Eyes Wide Smile”. I am curious about this release as it is not common to see a demo compilation while a band is active. What was the reasoning of putting this out?

Because we had a bit of success very quickly, we felt that a decent record deal was just around the corner and we didn’t want to put out a full debut album on Big Cat, which was after all our management’s own label. We also had a whole load of well-recorded demos that we had done at a little studio in Luton. So the idea was to use them to create more of a buzz, it was meant to be quite low-key. It was also nice to capture the incredible innocence and naivety of our sound at that point (although we would have denied that at the time). None of those tracks were recorded with release in mind, it was just us exploring our sound and what we could do in the studio. But I’m glad it’s out there now because that album is a fantastic record of what we sounded like around 1990.

++ The “Easy” album came out in 1994 and you got Stephen Malkmus to produce the record. How did this happen? Was it the label who hired him? Were you big fans of your music? Was it a good experience working with him?

Pavement had released Slanted and Enchanted on Big Cat, and we had also supported them at quite a few gigs around the UK, so we knew them a little bit. They were older than us and a hell of a lot cooler, obviously. Abbo had heard the songs that would go on to form the next two Pavement albums (Crooked Reign & Wowee Zowee) and there was a more lyrical, California rock type sound emerging, so he convinced us that Malkmus would be a good choice. By that point we had a new guitarist Te-bo Steele, and a much rockier sound ourselves. We were trying to fuse lyrical singer-songwriter material with more adventurous music.

It was fun to have him around, but he was more of a mentor than a hands-on producer to be honest. He spent a lot of time playing chess on his Gameboy! He really encouraged us to try and get a live sound down, to allow some mistakes to remain, which we appreciated after our previous experience with Barry Clempson. There’s an unreleased track with him doing backing vocals knocking about somewhere.

He stayed with Bill’s parents in leafy Coulsdon and one memory I have is of him working on a collage from old bits of the Radio Times and some nail polish in their living room, which ended up part of the artwork for Crooked Reign. That’s a very weird juxtaposition of cultures!

++ Something that always make me curious are songs with personal names on them. I wonder if the songs “Song for Jessica”, “Sofya”, “Evangeline”, “Billy Blue” or “Sophia” (is it the same as “Sofya”?) are based on real people?

Sofya was named after the mosque in Istanbul, as I said. Billy Blue was written when she was dating Bill, and Jessica was a song to her imaginary future daughter (she had three sons in the end, ironically). Moira wrote a few songs with her future children in mind, like Lullaby (Mother Love).

++ And do tell me, how come there were no more releases by the band? Was anything planned?

It’s the classic story of tensions between songwriters, between singers and guitarists. After Easy came out we toured Europe with Jeff Buckley for a few weeks and by the end Te-bo had just had enough, so he quit. We looked for another guitarist for a few months but, having spent 1992-3 trying to find someone to replace Simon Roots, I decided that it was time for me to leave as well. So sadly the album never really got promoted, we never toured it properly, and it never really got a chance to be heard.

++ Are there still unreleased songs by the band?

Oh yes, there are quite a few actually. After Simon quit around 1992 we had some material just written and demod. Then there was quite an interesting phase working as a trio until we found Te-bo which led to some alternative-type instrumentation. I may get around to putting them on You Tube one day if anyone’s interested.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “So Free”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Moira was always writing about her relationships. She was at the University of Brighton and had a few boyfriends down there which gave her good material. I guess it’s just that perennial theme of wanting to be with someone, but also enjoying their spirit just as they are.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Faith Over Reason song, which one would that be and why?

It has to be Alone Again. I think that was us at our absolute peak in terms of writing, arranging, performing, recording. I still love that song and it brings back so many memories from 30 years ago.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

We toured the UK quite a lot, both headlining smaller venues ourselves, and supporting bigger acts. So we went on the road with Lush and Slowdive on a couple of UK tours. Plus we played a lot around London – everywhere from tiny venues to the Town & Country Club which was one of the largest venues at the time. I remember we supported Spiritualised, the Violent Femmes, Julee Cruise, the House of Love as well. We learnt a lot playing all those gigs, became much better musicians.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Well I have to say that supporting Jeff Buckley and his band on their debut European tour was an absolute highlight. There was a huge buzz about him and they put on a spectacular show every night consistently. He was a total pro and a real sweetie. There were record company people at most of the stops on tour, and many well-known musicians were dropping in backstage to say hello. We drank and partied a lot on that tour – which probably contributed to our tattered mental state by the end! Don’t forget we were still only 23 or 24 years old and very innocent. In fact one reason we got the support slot was out innocent reputation. The record company was trying to steer him away from hard drugs, and Moira had been known to get her knitting out at gigs from time to time. I would get up early and go to the art galleries in each city – it wasn’t exactly Spinal Tap.

There was also a brilliant trip to Cologne in Germany for Pop Kom 1994, an MTV festival. Big tour bus, loads of bands, being filmed for MTV – wowza.

++ Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

I went to art school in 1995 and started getting into the art world, which has been my life for the last twenty-five years. But I did play drums with Broken Dog for a few years which was great because I was a huge fan of theirs, so it was brilliant to get to know them and be involved in their creative process. The legendary BBC radio DJ John Peel was a big supporter of theirs so I got to play on a couple of sessions from Maida Vale studios, and we were asked to record a song for his 60th birthday party. In fact I ran into Steve Malkmus again at that party (Pavement were playing as surprise guests) and we had a brief chat – probably my moment of peak coolness!

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards? I read that Moira was recording with Patch from The Sundays, were those songs ever released?

Moira did release a single under the name Ova, but then moved to Canada with her young family soon afterwards. She released a solo album in 2006 (Coming Up Roses) and a few more dance-oriented tracks. But it’s a shame she didn’t get the chance to do more – she has a great voice and writes great songs.

Bill, Te-bo and myself formed a psychedelic rock band called Soup and we gigged a little bit and released a split 7” with Placebo. Playing loud and embracing our inner rock tendencies was cathartic! But as Placebo’s career took off they took Bill with them. He’s been their invisible 4th member since the beginning and has experienced the full rock star life: huge arena gigs, long world tours, MTV, drugs, sex, money and all that stuff. In fact he was the one who spotted their potential and set them up with a management deal in the first place. It’s great to see them being so successful, it’s insane actually.

++ Has there been any Faith Over Reason reunions?

Not musically. But I have met up with Bill a few times when Placebo were out on tour. I met up with Moira in the summer of 2021 for the first time in 20 years and that was pretty cool.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Looking back at my much younger self, it is the camaraderie and sense of adventure that I cherish. Being in a band is like being in a little gang or a family. You go through all this stuff together and share your dreams. That’s a wonderful feeling. There’s nothing like that magical feeling when you are well-rehearsed and are playing together in the groove. I’m so glad I got to experience that and I think about it pretty much every day.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

I’ve been a visual artist, art critic and university lecturer for over 20 years now and that’s really what my life has been about. I’ve been lucky enough to run art galleries, have exhibitions at some prestigious museums, and see my writing published. You can take a look at www.markwilsher.com

I play piano and guitar as well now, but just for middle-aged fun. My teenage son is an excellent saxophonist!

++ Been to London many times but I’d like to ask a local about what you would suggest doing in your great city. I want to know what would you suggest them doing here, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

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Listen
Faith Over Reason – So Free