A couple of weeks now since NYC Popfest’s last night. What do I remember from the festival? I’ve seen a couple of reviews online that people have been posting on facebook, on different websites that conspicuously have an “.fm” ending on their domain. I’m surprised and shocked by the reviewers lack of understanding what indiepop is. Their comparisons to bands that DON’T sound at all like that. It’s revolting. Is the new press, the music writers, just any next door neighbor? Don’t they have any access to the internet? Googling C86 or indiepop is by far not harder than writing a lot of nonsense. I could say, but if these write-ups make the bands happy, well, who cares. If sometimes I complain for the lack of indiepop blogs and articles on the web, perhaps this proves against my point. Perhaps it’s not a good idea afterall that anyone can come and say that The Bats sounds like Phish. That’s blasphemy.

Because The Bats were IMMENSE. Because I’ve waited for this show for a long time. I’ve always wanted to see them live, and even though they didn’t play my most loved song of theirs, “Claudine”, they went through many songs of their classic repertoire that it made that night at the Bell House magic. All my dislike for this terrible venue, dissipated for the 45 minutes they played. No encores. It was a show that was according to a brilliant career. I can’t thank enough to Maz for bringing them to NYC. It made my night after the show to go backstage, meet with Paul and Kaye, and meet Robert and Malcom for the first time. Sitting with them on the sofa and talking about… stuff. I remember getting back to the front room and by that time the dance party was halfway through. How much time was I just hanging out? Most of my friends had left. I feel most of my friends must feel old because they keep leaving early. Or perhaps they don’t like to dance? In any case, the Bell House front room was never a comfortable space for dancing.

Who can forget The Hobbes Fanclub appearance that same night. Bringing one of those moments you can’t forget. A moment not suitable for the twee masses. When their set was announced to be shorter than expected, that they couldn’t play their whole set due to some sound issues (or whatever reason, it doesn’t matter really), the reaction, first of the drummer, and then of Leon, the vocalist, was to be applauded. Words that I can’t type in this ‘catholic’ blog were shouted. Words with all their right to be said. You can’t do that to a band. Even worst if they are only playing one show in the US after flying all the way from Bradford. That’s not a short trip. I don’t know how many transfers they must have made. But some decency from some venues would be appreciated.

Speaking of which, did I ever write anything about the time everyone was kicked out from The Bell House? It was at a dance party. A Robyn dance party. Seems some guy was quite drunk (no wonder) and got into a fight. He got pissed and so he broke one of the window glasses on the facade of the venue. Big deal. Make him pay. Take his credit card. But no, they kicked everyone out. They ruined everything that night with their very cerebral and logical decisions.

Anyhow,  Popfest. Best Popfest ever? Hands down.

I’m having this sort of vignettes of the whole weekend. Like the best moments kind of. I’ll keep on writing about it next week too with the ones I forget to mention today.

On Thursday a fab moment was to see Zipper doing a rendition of their already classic “Madrid Popfest” song. The minute and a half punky-pop pill was re-christened to “New York Popfest” and aside from an early hiccup it sounded fantastic.

Meeting on Friday Mike from Manic Pop was great. Bought a bunch of his records. The question after Popfest was, where did he go? He has disappeared. Some people might think he got very disappointed with indiepop, how snobbish people were at the festival. But the fact is different. There’s Jeremy’s blog to find out a bit more. From my point of view this is a delicate situation. I feel bad about his health, and I hope he gets good soon (though I do know of at least another label owner that goes through the same now and then, and he is still kicking it alright). At the same time I really hope his obligations with customers and bands are fulfilled. I could sound harsh, but I don’t think this was the way to do it. I believe in goodwill of people, I think with an explanation to everyone involved with his label, everyone would have understand if he was feeling in no position to continue. I found his resort of just disappearing a bit irresponsible, childish. Also, the indiepop-list has disappeared thanks to this same situation and probably, from the lack of effort of the indiepopsters, it will be for good. That is a shame. I hope this gets sorted out. For the good of everyone. Though I can see much more discussion about this topic coming up, though I doubt it will be public. As I said, it’s a touchy issue.

I met Liz from The School! Wasn’t that great! I couldn’t go to their second show in the city on the 12th. I had to get my mother from the airport that day. I so wish to have seen them again as they were brilliant the first time around. And Liz made me the happiest person by wearing the Quirky Girl Crafters Cloudberry badge. Huge and fluffy badge!

I djed a bunch of songs that Thursday at the Cake Shop. My CDs are old now. I need to make some new ones if I plan to DJ in London in some weeks for the Secret History/Comet Gain/Pale Spectres show. The thing was that my CDs kept on skipping and jumping. To the point that the sound guy from the venue told me to change the song when I was playing The Never Invited to Parties’ “Bicycle Song”. Good thing, no one noticed. It’s good to DJ for a bunch of drunks. Only one song I played caught the attention of anyone. I would later meet Annie, but at that point I didn’t know her, but she asked which song was blasting from the speakers. It was Your Place or Mine’s “Another Lover of a Demo Pop Group”.

The Monochrome Set only had XL sized t-shirts. Perhaps they were making a point. Oversized America. But I needed a large size one for me. Their show was truly great though. Perhaps better than that time at London Popfest were I wasn’t really paying that much attention.

Oddly enough I didn’t pick up many releases from the merch tables of bands playing the festival. Most of the stuff I bought was from bands not playing the festival as some labels brought some of their stock for sale. My favourite thing I got was the NYC 2013 black t-shirt though. Cool logo and nice colors.

Last year Maz talked to the crowd at Popfest. At the Knitting Factory night on Friday. I didn’t see it this time but Maz says he did. Did anyone got this? I was in the front bar as the beer is 2 dollars cheaper there ($2 against $4 at the bar where bands play).

I was very happy to meet many new friends, most of them from the US, but from many different cities. Not that many from NYC. Best of times was taking photos with some of them at the photo booth on Saturday. Though I wonder if that will compare to the photo booth of the Lego store Andreas and me found.

But seeing old friends was GREAT too. Seeing Ali and having some Peruvian food with him, and our new friend Autumn, was one of my highlights. Among Cusqueña beers and cebiches we had one of the best afternoons of the whole weekend.

And is there any bigger fan of the Closer Lobsters than Madrid’s Jorge? Since they reformed I believe he hasn’t missed any of their shows. That’s called dedication!

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Alright! My mind was working hard there. I’m not that young anymore to remember everything with details. I’m sure I’ll remember more great moments of the weekend for my next week post. Of course, there’s stuff I can’t write about, as this is not a gossip blog!, but the one that is writable, I’ll do. So now let’s move to my favourite topic of all times. The obscure indiepop bands.

19/10/90 – Alton College, Alton. Along the Herb Garden and Who Moved the Ground? the Chalk Garden plays a gig.

Alton College is a sixth form college located in Alton, Hampshire, England. As well as being a sixth form, the college provides an adult education service to the local population as well as catering for students with disabilities from nearby Treloar College. It was built in 1978 and was one of the first institutions in the UK to be a purpose-built sixth form college.

A famous musician actually studied there: Alison Goldfrapp.

The name of the band probably came from:

The Chalk Garden is a play by Enid Bagnold that premiered on Broadway in 1955. The play tells the story of Mrs. St Maugham and her granddaughter Laurel, a disturbed child under the care of Miss Madrigal, a governess. The setting of the play was inspired by Bagnold’s own garden at North End House in Rottingdean, near Brighton, Sussex, the former home of Sir Edward Burne-Jones. The work has since been revived numerous times internationally, including a film adaptation in 1964.

What else do we know about this mysterious band? As far as I know there were no releases. At least there’s nothing listed on the web. There is one compilation appearance though, on a 4 track 7″ released in 1989 along the House of Dolls magazine. This sleeveles slab of vinyl included four bands, each contributing one song. On the A side we had New Model Army and Every New Dead Ghost. On the B side we get The Sandmen and Chalk Garden. I don’t know two of the bands, but it seems like quite an eclectic mix. The catalog number was H.O.D. 007.

The song included by Chalk Garden is “Drunk Among the Trees”. A song of pure jangle that was produced by Dick Hawkins. I’ve been able to listen to it by tracking it on Myspace under the account of Cunas Music and Publishing. I’m not 100% sure if this link would work, but if you want to have a listen try it. Pretty good isn’t it?

The other song I’ve had the luck to listen was Flags. This song is from 1990. And you can tell that. The sound has changed a bit. It has more of a Madchester feel at this point. This song actually has a promo video and that’s how I came about this band. It’s a fun song, and still very poppy! There’s a comment on the Youtube page saying that there are many demos and bootlegs from the band. I hope to listen to these someday!

Then also on Youtube there’s a live performance at The Greyhound from 1990. It’s funny to see in the legend “Rare un-watchable live footage from 1990’s fifth favourite Lewisham band”. This one just got published a week or so ago. The song in the video is called “Running Through the Mills” and it’s quite good!! Jangly! So in 1990 they were doing still the jangle! Question here is, which are the fourth other favourite Lewisham bands?

But that’s all I could find online about this pretty obscure band. If anyone out there know anything else about them? About if they had any releases? If there are any more songs to listen? Whatever happened to them? If they played many gigs? If they became at some point Lewisham’s favourites? Please use that comment section here. Would love to hear more about them!

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Listen
Chalk Garden – Flags

Thanks so much to Robert Polson for the interview. A long time ago I wrote about them and Robert was kind enough to get in touch and send me a bunch of their early demos which were AMAZING (which you can listen to in their new SoundCloud page). These days Robert continues making music under Wat Mag but he was up for reminiscing the late 80s when he was in This Scarlet Train, the best band I’ve ever heard to come from Falkirk. The ever so mysterious band, one that I always wondered about on my book, the one that I would learn their Myspace back in the day was a fake one, not set up by the end, at last unveils some of their secrets. Here are also two (1, 2) photos Robert shared with me from the band. Hope you enjoy!

++ Hi Robert! Thanks so much for getting in touch. It’s really awesome that you are still making music under Water Magnesium! When did you start this project? And would you say are there any similarities between This Scarlet Train and this new project of yours?

Water Magnesium (Wat Mag) was formed about 3 or 4 years after This Scarlet Train. This Scarlet Train lasted about 2 years, during which I had effectively my life on hold,so there was a lot of ‘real life’ stuff to catch up on and I didn’t want to get involved in any kind of band scenario. Wat Mag was/is a sort of lo-fi,experimental recording project consisting of Jim Corbett and myself, using cheap keyboards,children’s toys,drum machines as well as guitars/ bass and effects recorded into a 4 track cassette machine. We don’t operate as a band, just come together on occasions, do stuff, then drift back to our separate lives. I made a very definite decision to avoid any connection with This Scarlet Train. I was very much tired of that sound, in fact aside from the most recent recordings, I rarely even played guitar on the Wat Mag stuff. The first track we recorded (Softly Ageing Eyes) was done off the cuff using a half broken Bontempi organ, a cheap Casio, some effects and a box of matches. it kind of set us up for taking different approaches to music making. There is an archive of WatMag stuff here- https://soundcloud.com/watmag

++ And in between these two projects of yours, were you involved with music?

Because Wat Mag works on a loose, sporadic basis it meant that I could get involved in other things. I used to enjoy just jamming with people,playing mainly bass. It was nice to play with different people and types of music rather than stuff I wrote or co wrote.
The last serious project I was involved in was The Tollbooth Sound Orchestra,, a collection of people with different musical backgrounds creating a kind of avant garde,free improv orchestra. We played gigs in Scotland and Ireland. Couple of pieces here if anyone is interested-https://soundcloud.com/noiseochestra.

I was also involved in putting together some sound installations,around this time, mainly doing analog electronics with both these projects.
I was becoming increasingly tired and bored of the whole music thing and after they finished I more or less put an end to making music.It felt right to have a total change.

++ You were also telling me that there’s a demo tape with far superior recordings of the tracks on the vinyl record. So I can’t stop wondering why didn’t you release those? And also, are there many more songs of yours on tapes that didn’t get the chance to be released?

Well, I could only say the earlier were superior, once they had been re-recorded. The earlier versions of Picture Frame/Still Rain were recorded as a 2 piece with a drum machine. After the drummer joined,the sound was so much dynamic and powerful, also since he was contributing to the album recording costs, it seemed re-recording them with the new line up was the right thing to do.,. As for other recordings? Well aside from the stuff I sent you, there isn’t really any surviving that I’m aware of and these would only consist of practice tapes.

++ Overall, which would you say was your favourite This Scarlet Train song? Why?

Probably Picture Frame. We did come up with loads of material really quickly, when we started,a lot of it was semi instrumental, with rather complex interplay between the guitar and bass. Picture Frame was quite simple, but still captured what we were trying to do. I came up with the riff one morning, still half asleep, We worked on the break bit together, and Stuarts vocal melody was quite catchy and kinda brought a more obvious pop element to our sound.
Also I remember walking into the control booth when we were recording the demo and first hearing it after the producer/engineer had worked his magic toys on it and being almost dumbstruck at how good it sounded. It first made me aware of how the studio could be used as a creative tool, this led me to buying a 4 track when the band split-I just wanted to make kinda homemade lo-fi records. Having a 4 track also allowed Water Magnesium to work in the way it did.

++ Tell me how did This Scarlet Train started as a band? How was the recruiting process? How did you know each other and what were you doing at the time?

I knew Stuart for some time, we both liked similar music and had been trying to get a band together on and off for ages. These attempts weren’t much more than some weak sounding jams. After a while we basically gave up and drifted apart. Then one day he phoned me out of the blue,he’d bought a bass and sounded pretty excited…Did I want to come for a jam? I can remember walking to his home,carrying my Rickenbacker, not particularly enthused with the idea, trying to figure out excuses,so I could leave early.
Stuart had been turned onto the Cocteau Twins/Joy Division/New Order by a friend and was feeling inspired . He’d traded his guitar in for a tasty looking old Rickenbacker 4001 bass. I was a bit bemused,I was listening to a lot of 60’s stuff at the time, having moved away from post punk,which was the first music I was into -‘Metal Box’ era PIL/Banshees/Birthday Party/Killing Joke etc. But I trusted him enough to give it a shot…. and it just worked from the off, Like a Year Zero moment, We abandoned our previous ideas, any conventional ways of playing the instruments and started coming up with lots of material very quickly. A drum machine was bought shortly after.This was about July/August 1986.
By December we’d played 3 gigs and recorded the Picture Frame/Still Rain demo using the drum machine, we put the demo for sale in the local record shop and a ‘Drummer Wanted’ ad in the local press referring to it. We had our first rehearsal/audition,as a 3 piece, just before Christmas of that year and started reworking the set in early January.

++ And were you involved with bands before? Where does the name of the band came from?

Stuart had played in several bands before, he was by large the most experienced and better player between us. I had briefly passed thru one them, playing bass in a dodgy punk band he was in.We didn’t really get on with another, for quite a while.
Initially the band was called ‘Shadowplay’- we’d been offered our first gig and had to come up with a name in an afternoon,so that the posters could be printed. Neither of us liked it,but stuck with it for the following gigs,not wanting to lose momentum. We used becoming a 3 piece as an excuse to change name. The name is totally meaningless, we just threw ideas about,riffed on words,associations etc and that’s what came out at the end.
I think if you use ‘Echo and the Bunnymen’ as a yardstick of silly names, then you can get away with just about anything, it you have enough front!
Funniest thing about it another local band, who we used to rehearse and gig with, immediately changed their name to ‘That Purple Bus’ in reference to us.

Oh, local papers announcement, when we split; ‘This Scarlet Train Have Crashed!!’

++ How did you end up signing to Night shift Records? What was the deal? How many copies were pressed?

Night shift were a local label,run by Brain Guthrie who managed Lowlife. To be honest, I’d never heard of either, till we spoke. We knew the Two Helens,who had released their album on Sharko 2 records, a subsidiary company, however I didn’t make any connection. I honestly don’t know how they heard us, it’s possible Brian was at our first gig, he did hear our first demo somehow and got in touch.We weren’t signed up in terms of having a written contract, I don’t think many bands of that level were. This had its advantages and disadvantages

The Cartel were an independent distribution company set up to give small labels a chance to compete with the majors in getting records in the shops. Fast Forward was the Scottish branch of it, based in Edinburgh.
The common deal for bands was this; The Cartel /FF would get their bills in every quarter. The band would pay for the recording expenses. The cost of manufacturing the record and sleeve were put on The Cartels ‘tab’. Once released, the band would have a 3 month period to try to sell as many records as possible, in an attempt to settle the bills when they arrived. If they succeeded-fine the process could start again. If they didn’t, then the band were in debt. I think there may have been a 1000 copies printed, but can’t remember for sure.
The whole system was open to abuse from all sides and the Cartel eventually went bankrupt. .

++ How do you remember the recording sessions at Planet Studios in Edinburgh? Any fun anecdotes you could share?

Well if anyone wants to hear Fimbria, click here

The original Picture Frame/Still Rain demos were done in Glasgow at Centre City Sounds studio. It was pretty small, inexpensive,but well enough equipped. the producer/engineer really liked our music and went the extra yard to get it sounding good. We were really pleased with it.
When the chance came to record an album,we had already settled on returning there. However the label insisted that we use Planet Studios in Edinburgh and hire (label mates) Lowlife producer Keith Mitchel work on it with us. Planet studios was bigger,better equipped and more expensive,which meant less time to complete it, We were assured that it would sound better and be more productive with him producing
It wasn’t, I remember the whole experience as being rushed, claustrophobic, unsatisfying and pretty boring. Lowlifes drummer invited himself to the studios. I am a firm believer that the interaction of personalities and the environment has a profound effect on creativity. The band worked fine together, but this didn’t.
Each night after recording Stuart and I would discuss the sessions,neither of us happy, trying to sort out problems and how to get our points across to the producer. Midway through the sessions we decided that we would be better using the tracks on the original demo, which we owned the master tape of. It would save time and they sounded a lot better than the re-recorded versions. We were told bluntly that it wasn’t going happen, it was technically impossible and then basically mocked a bit for even suggesting it. We were so taken aback,by his attitude that we didn’t pursue it…. But I could feel my eyes narrowing…
I kept on finding excuses to leave the studio, finding it claustrophobic and frustrating. Ended up looking in record shops, charity places, just wandering about, anything to avoid being in there. I’d get back in, have a look and listen, then just wanted to leave again.
I kept on thinking/hoping that maybe everything would come good at the mixing stage, but the final listening session had a pretty muted response.
When I did receive the finished record, I played it once, thought ‘Meh’ , filed it and don’t think I’ve made it all the way through it since. I didn’t actually own a copy for years. Wasn’t until my dad passed away and I was helping my mum move that I stumbled upon a batch.
I honestly think that if we had forced the issue, went to our preferred studio/producer and shut off everyone not connected with the process, we would have made a far superior, better produced, full length album. Regardless of what happened after that, at least we would have ended up with something that we were happy with.
So to answer your question; No I don’t have much in the way of amusing anecdotes, I’m afraid!

++ I’m wondering a bit about Falkirk. How was the scene back then? Where would you usually hang out? Were there any other good bands in town that you enjoyed?

My favourite band at that time was fronted by Jim Corbett, who I later went on to form Wat Mag with. They had a seemingly constant changes of lineup and name changes, including Inferiority Complex,Complex, the Invisible Sheep, That Purple Bus and others I’ve forgotten. We practiced and gigged with them a few times. It’s a pity nothing of theirs was ever recorded.
The Two Helens were quite big in the area, played Nuggets/garage rock, originals and a few covers,… Action women, Going All The Way, Silver Machine among others…. We also gigged with them in Falkirk and Edinburgh..They had released an album the year previous to us, which didn’t really capture the band at its best. There was also a 7″ single and then they split.Their singer/guitarist went on form a rockabilly band, who, IIRC supported us at least once.
I don’t remember there really being a scene as such. There was a bar that put on mid week gigs and a few other places for bands to play. There wasn’t any kind of focal point. I’m quite a boring person who prefers spending quiet time with friends than noisy, drunken nights out. There is a (out of date and rather tenuous,but detailed) website, documenting the Falkirk Music scene here, which will tell you more than I know or remember

++ What about gigs? Did you play live often? Any favourite gigs?

We were never a great live band. The material didn’t really translate to the stage that well. The early gigs using the drum machine were particularly awkward. Once we had a real drummer and I got a fuzz pedal the whole sound became more powerful and dynamic. Still not brilliant. Stuart was pretty much tied to the spot, doing the bass and vocals. He only started the singing out of necessity and even quite far on in the bands life, we were still on the lookout for a proper vocalist/front man. I never felt comfortable on stage, very much against my nature to be there and most gigs I was in a state of suspended terror. I think we did about 3 gigs using the drum machine and about 10-12 as a full band. Mainly in Falkirk and Edinburgh…Some were better than others, but nothing particularly stands out as a favourite

++ During those late 80s there were many great bands, guitar pop bands. Did you feel part of any sort of scene? Were you fans of any bands during that period?

I think we were kind of out of step with everybody. My musical tastes are pretty wide ranging and more often than not, I don’t play much attention to contemporary stuff
but some records/bands I dug during that period include- Throwing Muses debut, Pixies- Come on Pilgrim/ Surfer Rosa,… AR Kane,… Always liked the “Brix” era Fall records, esp “This Nation’s Saving Grace”,… Drag Racing E.P. by Big Stick,… Sonic Youth…,Salem 66…Birthday-the Sugar-cubes,.. Spacemen 3,..Big Black,…M.B.V, …Living All Over/ Bug- Dinosaur Jr…, Hook N Pull Gang,…UT …Blood Uncles…early Happy Mondays….I daresay there’s of loads others that I can’t recall at the mo…,

++ Was there any interest by other labels? Why didn’t you release more records?

We posted the first demo away to a few labels, but it was only a token effort. We were just so busy concentrating on getting ourselves together to even think about that side of things. The album was pretty much ignored, when it was released and I, for one, had no intention to moving to London, which at the time was pretty requisite’ I didn’t really think of Night Shift as a proper record company as such, it was one guy-Brian Guthrie- was acted almost as an agent between the band and the Cartel. I have a feeling that there were many other labels
who were pretty much the same.It is easy to appear to be bigger than you really are’
We were getting pushed into releasing a follow up record ;a 7 inch single,We went as far as recording 2 songs as a double B side (Here). However the band was ending it’s natural life span and there was no point in being further indebted to the label . The Two Helen’s had released a follow up 7* and had split quite soon afterwards, leaving it un-promoted. I don’t know if or how they resolved the financial debts with Night Shift but I was glad we split up before we were in a similar situation.

++ What about the music press, or the fanzines, how was your relationship with them?

Oh, there was a local fanzine n the go at the time, gave us a couple of fair lives reviews. Melody Maker (ling defunct UK national music paper) reviewed Fimbria and gave us a small bottom of the page feature/interview. Both were by Ian Gittins and probably done as a favour to Night Shift. I Think he was a fan of label mates Lowlife. Considering we had barely been going for a year when we made the record, it was pretty well going.

++ When and why did you split? What did you guys do after? Are you all still in touch?

Well, the album didn’t sell enough in the quarterly period to pay for its manufacture, so we were in debt to the Cartel via Night shift. We knew this was the chance we took before agreeing to doing it. What we weren’t prepared for, was to be so disappointed with the end result. There was a growing suspicion, that the reason we were pushed into using Night Shifts preferred studio/producer setup, was more for their benefit rather than the bands. Never the less, we had regular meetings with Guthrie, literally handing over bundles of pound notes to him. My memory starts to get a bit hazy after this,….We basically gigged quite a bit on the following months. After an unfortunate incident at a Edinburgh gig, we parted company with Stephen the drummer. We couldn’t get a new one. An old friend of ours offered to stand in, but he was unreliable. More often than not,we’d book and pay for a rehearsal hall only for him not to turn up. We started to stall and never really recovered. Night Shift were urging us to record a follow up 7″ single. I assume we were initially agreeable as we went to a cheap studio and recorded a couple of drummer- less tracks, that we worked on, at the drummer- less rehearsals. These were intended as a double B side. The fact I remember nothing about recording these, says a lot. If we had went ahead with the single, we would have had to raise the recording money and it would have put us more in debt. I don’t recall much zest for the idea.

Anyway to cut a long story short; The whole thing dragged for months on end. Nothing that was good or enjoyable about the band existed any more. Our lives were basically put on hold because of it, I still was staying with my folks and just couldn’t afford to leave, Our money was going on paying for a record we didn’t like and more would be going to pay for another we had little enthusiasm for. We needed a break from each other, it just wasn’t fun. We also just grew away the style and sound of the music we made.
I’m not good at ending things or breaking up, I tend just to let bad situations get worse as they drag on or try to come up with some pathetic ‘magic’ fix to sort them…probably down to insecurity or basic cowardliness.
Luckily Stuart is made of sterner stuff and pulled the plug on it. Think about Sept ’88.
After the band split,I felt a bit lost, like there was something missing. then I realised that the ‘hole’ was actually all the bands problems, which I had been wasting my energy on, trying to resolve..and they no longer existed..Such a feeling of relief! Fairly quickly, I left home,was in a relationship and was working. Sometimes after a bad situation ends,it’s good to have a nice,stable routine to help you recover. I sold my band equipment and was quite happy strumming Neil Young songs and stuff on an acoustic and occasionally recording a friend country blues renditions on my 4 track.Had I not later hooked up with Jim for Wat Mag, I might not have returned to making music at all.
Stuart wet to form and join various bands. We were drifting apart in This Scarlet Train and after splitting, lost complete contact for a couple of years. Eventually we did hook up socially for a while .Neither of us mentioned the band, maybe a bit embarrassed to have spent so much effort,into something that had no relevance any more.

++ Looking back in time what would you say was the highlight of the band?

The first six months were pretty amazing. the whole thing just seem to come together out of the blue. We were experimenting with different ways how the guitar and bass work together, loads of material came in short time. The first gig was 2nd billing at a local festival.Our third was packed with people and we made enough money to book a studio. We were very pleased with the recording and the demo indirectly led to us recruiting a drummer and a chance to record the Album. It all probably gave us a false sense of security that everything we did would turn out good.

++ Aside from music what other hobbies do you enjoy doing?

My first love was art, drawing mainly, which I had started before I even went to school. I had a crisis of confidence later on at high school, which stopped me trying to pursue it as some sort of career. Think as the band took over more and more of my time , I kinda drifted away from it and eventually gave up. After the sound installations I was involved in I just ended any more music making activities and drifted back into art.. Spent a couple of years doing art classes at local College, getting my ‘chops’ back. Then i set up a home studio, decided to paint.I take it at a quite leisurely pace, more interested in technique, than expressing myself or some idea. I feel much more at home doing this compared with music and wish I had went back to it a lot sooner .
I made a series of sorta short films/video art (sic) as an experiment in combining the art with ( mainly improvised) experimental music. I uploaded them recently on You tube. Anyone interested click HERE

++ Something that many people always ask themselves is how come Scotland produces so many great bands. Do you have any clue why this is?

No idea, I think maybe that there’s lots of small things combined in a certain way,that will never really be unravelled…..Possibly the weather plays a role. For the most part it’s cold and wet, people are indoors and if you’re bored and have a creative bent, then somethings gonna come out. Think the weather has some effect on the nations psychology as well….. There’s always been a rich tradition of folk music as well and ,although as a genre it’s pretty marginalised,, maybe the need to make music somehow runs through our DNA…. There was also a big maritime history, so a lot of outside ideas being assimilated, whether it’ was American rock’n’roll records in the 50’s or immigrants and travellers bringing in new ideas that are absorbed,…. Maybe it’s partly down to the need of expressing our individuality.
However a lot of these things could also apply to Ireland and indeed there are a lot of similarities and shared bloodlines between the two nations, however they haven’t produced the same amount of bands (or indeed inventions) as the Scots. So….as I said; I don’t really know.

++ One last question, because I actually like Scotland very much and always had a great time there, I’m wondering what’s your favourite Scottish dish (is there any Falkirk speciality?) and favourite Scottish beer? I should try next time I’m there of course.

I’m afraid I’m not too interested in food and drink myself. There were long traditions of both brewing and Whiskey distilling in Falkirk, both long gone. I heard talk of opening some sort of micro-distillery/ brewers in the old RoseBank distillery, but it’s been in discussion for a few years now’
I guess Scotland has a reputation for deep frying everything from confectionery to pizzas. there may or may not be in an element of truth in it. You’re more than likely to come across Indian,Chinese, Italian,French restaurants as much as anything more home grown.

++ Well, thanks again, anything else you’d like to add?

Just thanks for the interest and be sure pass thanks to the NYC DJs who’ve been playing it. When something gets released into the public domain, it takes a life of its own and it’s creator(s), have no say on where it goes, who hears it or how they’ll perceive or respond to it. I had pretty much forgotten about the record a long time ago. Every few years I’d give it a google, see where its journeyed to.
Nowadays it’s easy to click a (virtual) button and have a (virtual)piece of music delivered to the (increasingly virtual) memory of a handheld gadget-. not necessarily a bad thing- However a vinyl record is a relatively awkward, fragile object to move about,;It needs care and the fact that, decades later, the record has ended up in the clubs of NYC is quite a far out journey

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Listen
This Scarlet Train – Picture Frame

There’s so many things I’d love to write about. Of course a review of NYC Popfest is due. There was the Jazz Butcher show in NYC last weekend too. The many records I’ve got. The train tickets I’ve purchased. The lovely tiny fanzine called Lightningbug that I received today. But I have to focus on one thing today. Today is the official release date of The Secret History album and to celebrate it a video for the opening track, “Johnny Panic (Forget Everything)”, has been unveiled.

You can watch the video here: http://vimeo.com/67216349

As expected, and as it has to be, the video is beautifully shot in New York. Starring our good friend Kip from The Pains, with nods to The Secret History’s previous incarnation, My Favorite, the video was quite a surprise to me as I watched for the first time today after being premiered at SUP magazine. I’ve been giddy about this all day. Watching it time after time. Like a fanboy.

Those who didn’t get to see the band play at Popfest or Glasslands will get another chance this Friday when they play at the bowling alley The Gutter. They go on at 10pm. You shouldn’t miss it. I won’t. And then I’ll be seeing them again in London when the mighty Comet Gain and Cloudberry-pals Pale Spectres will open for them. If that wasn’t enough I’ll be watching them perform at Indietracks too. Will they get the main stage? I really hope so. I can’t picture them anywhere else.

The album has been getting great reviews and I’ve been posting it to all corners of the world. Surprisingly I will say that many orders come from Sweden. I wonder if it has to do with the epic My Favorite performances back in the day at Hultsfred festival.  For those who prefer buying the record from mailorders I can assure you that most of the usual indiepop carriers should have the record now, if not, it should be arriving any moment now.

So that’s that. I’m typing this small Cloudberry update wearing proudly a white t-shirt with the new Secret History logo on it. And actually a co-worker asked me today, how many different Secret History t-shirts do you have? The answer: 3.

It’s been a good day. When I peeled carefully the white tape from the yellow envelope and found a Fucksmiths badge and a Shittens badge, I couldn’t stop grinning. I was on the subway on the way to work listening to The Rileys future Cloudberry compilation (yes, this just arrived too! so more news on this soon). Details like this make my day. I’m not alone.

What else? Oh, Philippe Katerine is playing NYC next month. Also Watoo Watoo. I’ll go to the second. I think the French have decided it’s a good idea to celebrate Bastille day in New York. I would have loved to go see Katerine, but $50 seems a bit too much for a ticket. Especially if he is going to play his latest records and probably ignoring his 90s output which is by far the best. Watoo Watoo in the other hand will be playing on the 14th at the Cake Shop.

I’ve been going way too often to the Cake Shop. Though I haven’t seen the bar tender who knows to serve me Amstel Light when I arrive. A running joke. Maybe she quit. I was there last Friday too. Having a great time watching the Gold-Bears. Why is Jeremy not considered one of the best pop craftsmen around? No one makes crash pop like this anymore. Since the demise of The Faintest Ideas there are no other band on Earth to play pop with guitars as fast as the Gold-Bears.

Anyhow, enough of ramblings. Let’s move to what you came here for, the obscure band of the week. Of course.

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Do you know The Passengers? Seems like a very common band name. It probably is. But I only know this one band who came from London and released one 7″. Released on True Records (catalog PASS 001 – obviously it’s a private release) in 1988, this has become a bit of an elusive record for me. Will I find it one day? I really hope so!

I love the cover art, that photo of the kids making faces from inside a car. Or is it a school bus? The whole packaging is neatly done in black and white. Very 80s.

There’s one song on the A side, “Hell to Heaven” and two on the B side, “The Frances Farmer Song” and “The World Outside”. You ask who is Frances Farmer, well…

Frances Elena Farmer was an American actress of stage and screen. She is perhaps better known for sensationalized accounts of her life, and especially her involuntary commitment to a mental hospital (wiki-it!)

I assume they were from London as there’s an address on the back sleeve next to the word Information.

The record was produced by Steve Stewart and The Passengers. It was also engineered by Stewart. It was recorded at The Lodge in May 1988. The Design for the artwork was done by Sandra Jensen Heytmajer and the cover photograph is credited to Nigel Shafran. The band photograph on the back sleeve comes thanks to Melanie Ayee.

The band was conformed by Robert Randall (on lead vocals and acoustic guitar), David Noel Wright (on guitar and vocals), Steven George (on bass and vocals) and Rob Havis (on drums). The first two songs are penned by Randall solely but the “World Outside” is credited to all four guys.

As you are familiar with Google you might understand that it was almost impossible to search for anything The Passengers and end up having any worthy results. It’s a shame. But perhaps anyone reading this can help me. Do you know if they released any more records? Did they play gigs often? What happened to them after? Did they have more amazing songs? Where are their records? Do anyone have a spare copy? Whereabouts in London were they based? What are they doing now?

It’d be great to know a bit more about them. For now, I will recommend you enjoying “The Frances Farmer Song”. What a tune.

edit (same day, but at night): So it totally slipped from me but there’s a track of The Passengers on volume 3 of The Sound of Leamington Spa! I can’t believe I missed this. Thanks Uwe for pointing this out. So I grabbed the CD and checked the booklet and there’s some more information about the band. The song included by the way is “Sometimes” which was produced by Andy Rourke in 1988 and written by Robert Randall. The bio goes like this:

Steven George had left the band. We advertised for an Andy Rourke (Smiths) like Bass Player in Melody Maker. When Andy himself responded I fell out of bed. He came down to London, liked the band and offered to produce us. He also offered to stand in on bass for the recordings. He didn’t need to. When Steve heard about Andy, he came back. We survived about another year after “Sometimes” was recorded. Our biggest success was in Germany and Spain. Mainly because an earlier song “Hell to Heaven” got a few plays on MTV in Europe. There was no MTV in England, so when we played there our audiences were scant. In Berlin, however, we were treated like U2… met at the airport with Video Cameras, and given hashish on our arrival. I remember one sweaty occasion when 1500 people came to see us at a club called BlockShock. Marcus Clements was amazing that night. He was a brilliant guitarist. People used to watch him mesmerized. He never used pedals… just plugged his guitar and played. He was the most soulful guitarist I have ever worked with, quite possibly ever seen. Robert Havis was our drummer. Last I heard of him he was recording some band in Chicago. He always kept it simple, and kept the band solid. He loved Johnny Cash! I don’t know where he is these days. Steve went on to join Swervedriver. I think he now lives in South London. Marcus went back to Bristol, the land of his beloved Only Ones, to have kids. After the Passengers split up I packed my talents up, and joined a band in New York City… the remnants of which formed into Nada Surf after I left.
When the Passengers split up I magnanimously turned to Robert Havis and said “That was the best band I’ll ever be in”. Robert wasn’t so magnanimous, “You’re right about that”, he said. Many years on, after listening to all the music I’ve ever recorded I have to admit that he could possibly have been right.
Robert Randall
December 2002

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Listen
The Passengers – The Frances Farmer Song

Almost two weeks without updates! Have I lost many readers? I hope not. As you know two weekends ago we had NYC Popfest though it feels it was yesterday. Especially as the gigs haven’t stopped since then. Even this week we have the Chickfactor 21 festival that I thought I was going in first place but now after the announcement that The Pastels are not coming I might just go to a night or two. In any case I won’t be missing the return of Atlanta’s Gold-Bears in NYC this Friday at Cake Shop and then on Saturday at Spike Hill along the always classic Jazz Butcher.

So that. Pretty busy. Also having hosted four great friends during these weeks. First Alex and Christina who did all the touristy things NYC offers. And then Andreas and Carl, the Alpaca Sports guys, who came, played, and conquered. And filmed a video for their next single.

This past week we also had the release party for the new Cloudberry release, the Secret History album. It was a great night were many friends showed up and supported my favourite NYC band at the moment. For those who suffer of nostalgia the band played two songs from their previous incarnation, My Favorite. Two of their best songs of their past repertoire, “Absolute Beginners Again” and “The Informers”. It was a blast. I’m very happy with the result of the album!

Sure, NYC Popfest deserves a true review, date by date, and I think I might be able to do that in the following weeks. There are so many stories I want to share and also so many fantastic bands I saw. I met old friends, made new friends, among them a very critical ‘enemy ‘. Of course this has made me very happy.  I don’t have any doubts that this has been the best NYC Popfest edition.

By now all friends that were here for Popfest have left. It’s again all the same NYC folks who I will see. I like the international flavour that people bring from abroad. They bring a different sort of energy. They come in festival mood. Whereas I’m working the first couple of days of the festival. Then grab a fast bite and run to catch the subway to the venues. There it was beer after beer. Cheering. Buying lots at the merch table. Ah! Reminiscing about these past days only makes me want to speed up the days and hope it’s Indietracks already.

A couple of things before I move onto the obscure band of the week. And I know. I owe you two obscure bands for the past two weeks, don’t worry, there will be some interviews coming up to cover for that. The first thing, is a big thanks to Maz for organizing such an epic festival and booking a fabulous lineup. I know there were trouble at some point with the organization, namely Public Assembly, but everything worked out smoothly in the end and there was never a boring moment. And secondly, why did The Knitting Factory had PBRs at the back room (where the bands played) for $4 and on the front room for $2? A lot of people didn’t notice and were ripped off. Not cool.

Other great things that have happened during these weeks are the Peru victory against Ecuador last Friday (which I missed the live broadcast due to having a dinner date in K-town), the birthday gift Alpaca Sports gave me (a framed original poster of the first Starke Adolf club night in Goteborg) and finally buying an AC unit for home. So yes, now people can visit me in summer. Now, if only Peru can beat Colombia tomorrow Tuesday, we will be terribly close to the next world cup. A world cup I plan to go as me and my friend Daniel are already thinking of arriving there on the 13th or the 14th of June to enjoy at least some games during the first week of the competition!

But let’s move to what everyone is interested in, the Sugar Glyders!

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Of course everyone is familiar with the Sugargliders from Australia. A classic band that recorded for Sarah. But years before their time there was a UK band called Sugar Glyders who released the one and only 7″ on Lost Moment Records (LM012). Two songs, “Revenge” and “Free Your Heart”. Released in 1984. A black and white illustration. The name of the band in red. It looks like a detective opening the door of a dark room. Who were the mysterious people behind this release?

I first heard about their existence through Uwe. He told me they sounded like The Tempest. The band was to be included in the next Leamington Spa release. How did he find about them? That’s the question. After some time I finally procured a copy through Musicstack. Not too cheap but not too pricey. Something around 20 bucks. And it’s worth it for the B side. “Free Your Heart” is such a beautiful song!

I did listen to the songs before buying it. And that was thanks to Bruce from the blog My Life’s a Jigsaw who kindly emailed me the MP3s he ripped from his own vinyl copy. After listening to them I bought it.

The band was based in Hemel Hampstead. A place I’m not familiar with at all.

Hemel Hempstead is a town in Hertfordshire in the East of England, 24 miles (38.6 km) to the north west of London and part of the Greater London Urban Area. The population at the 2001 Census was 81,143 (but now estimated at around 89,000 by Hertfordshire County Council).
Developed after World War II as a new town, it has existed as a settlement since the 8th century and was granted its town charter by King Henry VIII in 1539. It is part of the district (and borough since 1984) of Dacorum and the Hemel Hempstead constituency.The settlement was called by the name Henamsted or Hean-Hempsted, i.e. High Hempstead, in Anglo-Saxon times and in William the Conqueror’s time by the name of Hemel-Amstede.[1] The name is referred to in the Domesday Book as “Hamelamesede”, but in later centuries it became Hamelhamsted. In Old English, “-stead” or “-stede” simply meant a place, such as the site of a building or pasture, as in clearing in the woods, and this suffix is used in the names of other English places such as Hamstead[disambiguation needed] and Berkhamsted.
The town is now known to residents as “Hemel” however before The Second World War locals called it “Hempstead”.
The town has given its name to the town of Hempstead, New York. Immigrants from Hemel Hempstead migrated to the area which is now Hempstead, New York, including the surrounding areas such as Roosevelt, in the late 17th century.

The band was a trio and they were:
Martin Brown on vocals and keyboard, Paul Thomson on bass and vocals, and Keith Chapman on drums.

From the same blog I learned that Martin and Keith used to be in a live band called Spoils before being in Sugar Glyders.

The only other Sugar Glyders appearance as a band was on the compilation LP “Colours of the Bastard Art!”. This was released on the same label, Lost Moment (LMLP005). The song they included was Jericho. I haven’t listened to this song yet sadly. The only other band I know included in this compilation is Jesus Couldn’t Drum (who would later become The Chrysanthemums).

From the back cover of the record we know that “Revenge” was solely written by Martin Brown and “Free Your Heart” was a joint work by Thomson and Brown. The record was engineered by Bob Morledge at Bob’s Studio in Watford. The cover was done by Bingchap (Uncle Bert).

There’s no much information about the Sugar Glyders online. However Martin Brown has a website. Seems he is still going strong with music and recording new material.

Did they only recorded these 3 songs? Why didn’t they record more records? Whatever happened to the Sugar Glyders after splitting up? Did anyone out there see them playing any gigs? What do you remember about them?

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Listen
Sugar Glyders – Free Your Heart

Thanks so much to Patrick Lines and Simon Rosenbaum for this great interview! I wrote about Keen some time ago on the blog and at last, thanks to Patrick, we get to know the story of Keen. They only released two records in the late 80s, a 7″ and a 12″, but it seems there was a CD also that almost got released. I look forward to listen to it someday soon!

++ Hi Patrick! Thanks so much for getting in touch! So you were telling me that there is a CD aside from the two singles? What’s the story of this CD and what tracks are on it?

Patrick: The CD was put together after the band split and used some of the songs from the two singles and some other bits and pieces that we’d recorded. It was called “Going Through the Emotions”. We never got round to formerly releasing it for one reason and another, the main one being the split of the band.  As you’ll hear a lot of it is pretty rough – more like demos really – but it captures what the band was like quite well.

The track listing is:
On Your Knees
Made Up
Underdog>
Small Wonder
Darker Glasses
Playhouse
Deep Water
Those Letters
Mate
Tears Into Me
Waiting
Down
Good Man
Daddy

++ So Keen. Where does the name come from?

Patrick: I’m not sure!  I think it came from the name of the first That Petrol Emotion single but others in the band might have different ideas! I’m not certain which of us came up with it but it was either me or Andy.

++ And was Keen the first band you were involved with? What bands would you say influenced you? Can I dare to say you listened to indiepop back then?

Patrick: No, I’d been in a few bands as had the others.  Me and Andy were first in a band called The Insults, who became The Household Names and then I went on to a band called The Third Man (where Pauline came on board) before me and Andy got back together with a band called Steel Mine that were really the forerunners of Keen.

I think all five of us in the band had very different influences, which sometimes was a good thing and at other times not so good! At the time we did the two singles I think it would still have been a lot of the post-punk bands that influenced us, or me anyway, –  Echo and The Bunnymen, Psychedelic Furs, Cocteau Twins, Joy Division, Orange Juice, the aforementioned That Petrol Emotion and so on. Andy was probably the most into the original punk stuff and then at the other end you had Simon who was very into the more poppy stuff around at the time. The only bands I can think of that we all liked were I guess The Smiths and The Clash, although you’d probably struggle to detect either of them as an influence! We did listen to a lot of indiepop between us and around that time I loved bands like The June Brides, The Primitives and so on.

Simon: As Patrick already said before Keen I was in a band originally called Release The Geese but by the time I left we were called Guessing Games. We were less indie more traditional power pop with folky leanings think Wishbone Ash meets Squeeze though of course not quite in the same league as those classic bands!

I have to say my influences were probably quite different to Patricks apart from maybe The Smiths I loved bands like The Pretenders, Martha & The Muffins, The Korgis (no cred marks for them!) The Cure, The Police, Pet Shop Boys and my fave artist Kate Bush. So I like a pop songs with a great melodies. Later on I did get more into the indie scene and started to like bands like Cocteau Twins, Echo & the Bunnymen and R.E.M. I was also into film music so I would say the music of John Barry was also an influence on me.

++ Who were the members of the band? What instruments did they play? And how did you all knew each other?

Patrick: Me and Andy (Guy) met at school and he played bass and me the guitar.  When I later joined the Third Man we advertised for a singer and that’s when I met Pauline (Males).  Simon (Rosenbaum) I met when we were both put on some work experience type job.  Both started on the same day and immediately hit it off.  He was in a band called Release the Geese at the time but when they split we’d occasionally get him to play keyboards until he eventually refused to leave and became a full-time member! After that we got Iain (Mackay) through an advert placed for a drummer.  It was really Iain who gave us the motivation and the plans to go from being very much a little local band to one with bigger ideas. When Andy left we replaced him with a proper bass player!  That was a guy called Matt.  And along the the way we also got a second female singer  – Gillian.

++ Where were you based? And how influential were your surroundings to the band? Would you have rather being with the band somewhere else?

Patrick: Me, Andy, Pauline and Simon all came from South West London – the Kingston, Wimbledon area for those that know it. Iain was originally from Newcastle and ended up in London for work.

Looking back I guess there was something in that suburban thing that probably did influence the band though I couldn’t say any of us were particularly attached to the area. I don’t think that ever really came out in the lyrics or anything but maybe in the attitude of the band. That sense of wanting to escape from where you were. For Iain I think there was a link back to Newcastle in the sense that he liked all the Kitchenware bands (Prefab Sprout, Hurrah, The Daintees) who were around at the time and from that area. The rest of us listened to all that too.

++ What were the places you would hang out in town? Were there many like-minded bands around that you enjoyed going to their gigs or even playing gigs with them?

Patrick: There were quite a few bands around in that area at the time but the only ones that me and Andy would go and see regularly were The Sound.  Even now they’re probably the only ones I’d still listen to. I don’t think in Kingston or Wimbledon themselves we ever really wanted to hang around there much. We’d play anywhere that would have us!  The best place to play for us back then was somewhere called The Powerhaus in Islington.

++ Tell me then about gigs, what were your favourite Keen gigs? Did you play many? Any anecdotes that you could share?

Patrick: Like I say the Powerhaus gigs were always my favourite.  It was a great venue and just about right for us at the time. We must have played hundreds of places by the time we split and might have even given the impression we knew what we were doing by the end! I remember one gig that we filmed where three of us had got held up on the way there and Iain had given up on us ever making it and got drunk instead.  If you watch the film he was usually probably the best musician out of the lot of us but his drumming was all over the place until at one point he just falls off the back of the stage; lying there in a drunken stupor!

The other one that sticks in the mind is one we did somewhere in North London. Simon – never the most hardy of souls – decided that the traffic was a bit heavy and he and Pauline gave up and went back home.  Turned out we were playing a double bill with Lush who were Simon’s favourite band at the time. A great gig as it happens and he missed it –  still moans about it to this day!

Simon: It was so long ago my memory is a bit hazy. I do always regret not getting to that gig where we were playing with Lush. I think the car broke down it wasn’t just that the traffic was heavy! I do remember we did have one very avid fan who seemed to be at every gig we played. I think his name was Dave!

++ During the years you were going did you feel part of a scene at all? What about fanzines? Were they important at all for the band?

Patrick: I don’t think we ever did feel part of any scene.  The songs were probably too diverse to ever neatly fit into any category. Songs like ‘Missed The Point’ (which you’ve heard) was definitely very like a lot of the indiepop stuff around at the time but then there’d be others – like Daddy or Those Letters –  which were miles away from  it. As I was implying earlier, if you were being kind you’d say we were a very original band if you were being less kind you’d probably say we were all over the place musically!

In the very early days – before Keen really – fanzines were a big thing and in the bands me and Andy were in we’d do all we could to get a mention.  We started one of our own called This Years Model, which was brilliant in our minds and over a pint but not quite so brilliant when we got round to actually producing it! A friend of mine at the time – Lee Davies – helped out with all that and actually made something of worth out of it. She went on to be editor of Time Out so I suppose it was useful for something!   By the time we came to recording stuff and doing most of our gigs fanzines had kind of had their day.

++ You put out your two records on a label called Scaredy Cat. Was it your own label? How did that work out?

Patrick: Yeah, Scaredy Cat was really Iain’s baby.  He put in most of the work and I think he even put up the finance for it.  He was sort of drummer and manager all in one.  I could be wrong but I think he came up with the name.  The only other band that ever got released on Scaredy Cat records was the one he’d been in previously called Sixteen Again.  As the title suggests they were a sort of Buzzcocks inspired band. I think that one is even harder to come by than the Keen stuff.

++ And I can’t help to ask, but were you big on cats? Did you happen to own some back in the day?

Patrick: I wash my hands of the name and the ‘Feline Groovy’ title!  I’ve no recollection at all of how that came about. And the picture of the flippin’ cat on the cover! Now you mention it it does make it look like we were obsessed by cats, which I’m sure we weren’t!

++ I have heard a couple of your songs, but I still think “Missing the Point” might be my favourite. Care to tell me the story behind this song?

Patrick: Pauline wrote the lyrics for that one so I couldn’t say for sure. I’m guessing that it was about the fag-end of a relationship and the inherent communication breakdowns, though if I’m wrong then I’m probably only proving the title to be correct!

I wrote the music and it was definitely one of those songs that sound quite a lot like other stuff that was around at the time.  I don’t think it was a conscious steal off anyone in particular though.

++ And which song of yours would you say was your favourite?

Patrick: My favourites were Those Letters, Darker Glasses and Daddy. I think they’re probably the ones where the lyrics are really strong and the music really works. In some others it’s kind of one or the other.  Listening back to the songs I’d have to say that the thing that most strikes me is how powerful and clever some of Pauline’s lyrics were and these three I think are the best examples of that.

Simon: My favourite Keen song was always ‘Made Up’ though I also like ‘Darker Glasses’ and ‘Missed The Point’ quite a lot.

++ Which record came out first? The 7″ or the 12″? And what do you remember from the recording sessions for these. Were they any different from each other?

Patrick: The 7″ came first when Andy was still in the band.  The 12″ was once Matt had replaced him.  They definitely sound very different..Well, to  me anyway.  Though the second one wasn’t recorded a whole lot later we knew what we were doing a bit more by then. Matt was very different to Andy and he made the whole thing sound a lot slicker and tighter.  I guess you could argue the first one sounds a bit more immediate but I think the better songs are on the 12″. The sessions were really easy.  None of us were into doing loads of takes or anything.  Like hundreds of other bands I think you can always listen back and wish you’d done some things differently but they sound okay. I think it goes back to that point about all of us having different influences.  Some of us wanted a harder sound, others wanted maybe a more polished sound and you end up with a compromise that no one is entirely happy with.

The first session was a bit more exciting in the sense that we were all surprised to find ourselves making a single; by the time of the second one we had it more in mind to try and come up with something we were happier with.

++ Your records seem hard to find. How many copies were pressed do you remember?

Patrick: Iain handled all that.  Again I could be wrong but I think there were a 1,000 of each..Most of them no doubt still up in Iain’s loft, wherever he now resides! In retrospect we took on a lot in terms of producing, promoting, distributing them and so on.  There was  interest from the press in both of them but if anyone then wanted a copy it was a bit of a lottery as to whether they could find one.

++ And why didn’t you get to release more records? Was there at any point interest from labels to put you out? Maybe some majors?

Patrick: Shortly after Feline Groovy we split up.  We’d had tentative interest from a few labels.  Arista was the one who followed it up with a  concrete offer but they wanted us to change our appearance and some other things and we weren’t happy with that. In part that was the reason for deciding to do things on our label, We had quite a lot of support from some journalists in Melody Maker, Time Out etc and though we never really discussed it we always thought something might just turn up and never made a lot of effort to push it ourselves. Iain really was the one who did his best to organise us and get some sense of urgency into what we did; perhaps all the feline references were his thoughts on it being like herding cats!

++ What happened then? Why did you split? And what did you all do after? Did any of you continued making music?

Patrick: It was weird when we split.  We went to a rehearsal one day and Matt I think it was who said something else had come up that he wanted to pursue and then Gillian and Pauline in turn also said they wanted to do other things. I think Pauline probably would’ve carried on but we went into a rehearsal with 6 members and some plans for more gigs, records etc and came out with 3!

Looking back, once Andy went the dynamic sort of changed and it was still good but became a bit more serious. Less just like a bunch of mates. At that point – though it was never explicitly stated –  it became kind of obvious that either we’d ‘make it’ in the next twelve months or so or split up.

Simon: After Keen me, Patrick and Iain formed ‘The Pop Robsons’ but we only ever played one gig and then Iain left to go back up north. Me and Patrick worked on some songs for a bit after that but eventually we just stopped playing music and did other things.

 ++ Are you all still in touch? If so, what are you all up to these days? Any other hobbies or interests that you have aside from music?

Patrick: I’m still good mates with Simon and Andy and am in touch with Pauline.  I haven’t seen or heard from Iain, Matt or Gillian in years.  Iain in particular it would be good to catch up with. Two of the band (Simon and Pauline) became librarians, Andy’s a teacher, I’ve just left the Civil Service after 20 years and the others………………not a clue! Pauline has gone back to writing poetry/lyrics and I’m teaching my son to play guitar so maybe it’s gone full circle!

Simon: Me and Patrick are still good friends and I occasionally see Pauline but have lost touch with all the other members of the band. I can’t say I have any exciting hobbies apart from watching films and listening to music. I still try and keep up with the latest sounds my faves at the moment are Beach House, Girls Names and Chvrches.

++ Looking back in time, what would you say were the best moments of Keen as a band? What is that that you miss the most?

Patrick: I’m surprised when I listen back to the songs by how much I like them!  As I was saying earlier I think the lyrics really stand up – Made Up, Those Letters, Daddy and so on are really powerful.  In the early part it was just great fun – a bunch of mates making music, doing gigs and thinking we could do much as we pleased.  I enjoyed all that stuff of writing songs and rehearsals and seeing it all come together. When it was me, Pauline and more latterly Simon writing the songs it worked well. By the end everyone was chipping in and we  lost a bit of direction.

Simon: I enjoyed the creative process and seeing the songs develop and just jamming along with friends and not taking it too seriously! I probably miss that the most.

++ Let’s wrap it here, thanks a lot again, anything else you’d like to add?

Patrick: No problem.  We’re going to try to find a way to make the songs available should anyone have the desire to hear them so we’ll let you know if or when we find a solution.

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Listen
Keen – Missing the Point

Well last week was quite prolific for the blog. There were five posts overall. Four interviews plus one of those obscure band write-ups I love to do. Can’t say I’m too inspired today to write a full-fledged post. You see, I woke up to the news that some tall truck had pass by my street and cut the wire that brings internet at home. After hours with customer service, technical support, and the terrible music they make you listen while waiting for someone to answer I managed to get an appointment for tomorrow morning. Mind you, at first they insisted their only available time for restoring my service was on Saturday. That’s five days of waiting. What a terrible service Time Warner.

I was just thinking that this might be right now the longest standing blog about indiepop out there. Could that be right? I mean, none of the blogs that I used to read back in 2008 are still around. Perhaps I am missing something. But if this was the case whatever happened to them? Why did they stop? And then I might ask, because sometimes friends ask me, where do you find out about the latest news about the bands you like, the labels you support?

And I feel it’s a very valid question, as I don’t even keep up with the trends or news on this blog. This blog is mostly an extension of my record collector habits, which means older music, from the 80s usually, the heyday of indiepop. Sure I listen a lot of new stuff, but as they are still writing their story, I’m not that keen in documenting it that way, with interviews and such. I want to be part of their story, I want to meet them and spend time with these bands, with these friends. It’s a bit of a different dynamic. So back to my question, whereabouts you learn what’s going on in indiepopworld?

I like that Twee.net has a feed of blogs on their front page. I’m happy that this blog is featured there among others. I’ve checked the others and though you might  tell me that I’m being a bit fascist about it, they are a bit too broad in their indie spectrum for my taste. I don’t care about the 60s much either. Not to read about it at least.

Do you believe it is for us to blame the blogs who offered full album downloads? I feel they do play a big part on it. People got used to it, where words didn’t matter, just a link to a mediafire hosted file. Vacuous of course, but extremely easy for those lazy fans that expanded their knowledge thanks to a click of a mouse. It didn’t matter the background, who the band were, what inspired them, who they were, where were they based. Who cares, right? In the end is just the same, an MP3. A simplistic way of understanding music, of making sense of indiepop. Truly, I can’t think of them as fans. Just hipsters riding the wave.

Perhaps it has to do with that too, indiepop was hip for a little while. With acts like The Pains of Being Pure at Heart or Veronica Falls. Even Camera Obscura. 2007 to 2009 lots of people embraced the sounds of jangle guitars and catchy chorus. These bands became household names for the Urban Outfitters generation. I welcomed the news with happiness, to see more people liking the music I love would have meant better sales, more recognition, and most importantly more bands making this sound. But as history repeats itself, it only lasted for a bit. These people weren’t interested in the music or the meaning of indiepop, just about what was cool at the moment. Hipsters. So they just moved on to the next thing. Whatever it is these days? Chill-wave? I’m clueless.

So if there are so little readers around, if the crowd interested in indiepop shrunk, why keep writing? Why keep researching, why keep sharing the knowledge, if you are not going to get any recognition for your work or time? And you might laugh, but there were several bloggers in the indiepop scene that became a bit of household names, not necessarily for their writing skills, but I’m not here to discuss their virtues and defects, at least they existed and in a way that was good.

Sure, platforms like Spotify, might help you discover some new bands with their sort of algorithmic processes to find you similar bands. Same as Last.fm. But really, how many indiepop bands go through the trouble of paying and figuring out how to put their music in these apps? Not many. So yes, if that’s how you find your music, you are only touching the tip of an iceberg.

I must say that at this point, for me, the only reasonable and effective way to learn about new music is still word of mouth, or what is the digital age equivalent, the facebook news feed. A friend posting a video of an unknown band, or a soundcloud link, can be the best way to discover a gem of a song. But that’s happened since forever. Mix tapes, mix CDs, have been around too.

I’ll reformulate the question then, who is making sense of the music? Who is telling you what is good or what is bad? Who is valuing the songs? Does everything have the same quality? Who is actually giving a thought, giving it’s real valuable time, to understand and interpret what one is listening? Not in an arbitrary way of course, but an opinion, a not biased judgement one can trust.  Or are we lost in trusting websites like the big P where you get reviews if you pay happily to some marketing genius, thousands to a PR? That’s perhaps the big label model, but us, small enthusiasts of indiepop, are we going to forget the long tradition of fanzines, of people who loved so much the music that they would invest their time to write and recommend their favourite songs to like-minded people? Is that’s what’s coming up? The death of indiepop criteria, where people at forums are happy to say “I think this is indiepop, because I have a broader way of defining the term” or “let’s not fight about what indiepop is” like we’ve become sissies and can’t have a passionate discussion of what this represent to us? Like we are going to be apathetic and just agree to everything? All I’m saying is we need more voices. Can someone speak up?

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After losing twice at the last second Sarah #1 (that is the Pristine Christine single by The Sea Urchins, though I shouldn’t be explaining this, right?), I was lucky enough to find a two dollar copy of the Boys From the East’s “Brilliant” 7″.

I didn’t know about them at all a couple of weeks back. I think I saw them on a Japanese store listing and then found one of their songs on Youtube. I played it. And I liked it. Simple as that. That song was “Brilliant”, the A side of the single. The problem was that it was an almost 8 minute remix. A remix by James Cassidy, who according to Discogs has even worked with Catherine Zeta-Jones (?).

The song sounded great, but I needed to listen to the original one. The one on the 7″. Because this remix is the A side of the 12″ version of the single. The 12″ did include the original one, titled “Brilliant (Radio Edit)” as B1. The other song included in both 12″ and 7″ was “Icarus”. Though on the 12″ a live version was included.

Both songs are really great. Not exactly in the classic sound of indiepop, but closer to favourite acts like Two People or The Word. You know, a good mix of indiepop and new wave. Class.

This record was released on Final Cut Records and the catalog number was FINC 1. This as far as I know was the only release on the label. So I assume this was the band’s own label.

There are some credits for the songs too, though sadly we don’t get to know the band members through them: both songs had Ben Doyle and Jon Mallinson as assistant engineers, and were engineered and produced by Tony Harris.

The other bit of important information comes from the address of the label. It’s on Clarendon Road, very close to the Wood Green underground stop. North London. So, 1987, North London, that’s where and when these guys were around. Not really boys from the east then, but from the north.

The cover credits are for “Big” Gov and “Big” Glenn. There are special thanks to Mick Fitzgerald and Jon Mallinson.

But here is the interesting part. There is another single by Boys from the East. It’s not listed on Discogs but it seems that is not difficult to track. Make sure that it does have originally a picture sleeve. There are some places were they sell it without. I have yet to find one for myself though, but hopefully it will happen in the next couple of weeks!

I haven’t heard this single but it has on the A side the song “Eastern Eyes” while on the B side it has “Work Hard”. This was released on another label, Kirk Records in 1984. Catalog number WF002. I wonder what it sounds like.

And that’s all I could find about this great record. Does anyone out there know anything else about this band? Did they have any other releases? Did they play often in London? Who were they? And what happened to then? Get in touch! Would be great to fill in the blanks and know a bit more about Boys from the East.

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Listen
Boys from the East – Brilliant

Thanks so much to Annette Deane for the interview! The Paperboys only released one 7″ back in the late 80s and recorded this fun video for their A side. After listening to them you’ll end up wondering why didn’t get to to be more known and why didn’t they release more records. But hey, have a read and have a listen and discover one of Manchester’s best kept secrets.

++ Hi Annette! Thanks a lot for being up for this interview! What keeps you busy these days? Are you still making music?

Not any more! After The Paperboys split, I sang with a few covers bands, then kind of lost interest in the whole music thing. These days I work as a teaching assistant with the under 5’s. The only singing I do now is nursery rhymes!

++ Let’s talk about The Paperboys. When did the band start and where were you based?

We got together around 1985/86. We were all from Manchester, and around that time the city was full of rehearsal rooms and recording studios, almost everyone I knew was in a band.

++ How did you know each other? How did the band got together and what instruments did you play?

Steve (guitar), Paul (bass) and Mark (drums) were already formed, and were looking for a vocalist. I saw the ad in Afflecks Palace, a legendary Manchester store that sold weird and wonderful clothes, jewellery and music. I took the ad down so nobody else could apply! Steve and Paul had been friends from childhood, and with the addition of Mark and myself, The Paberboys had arrived.

++ And what about the name The Paperboys? Who came up with the name and is there any story behind it?

I’m pretty sure it was Steve, I remember the name was decided upon by a process of elimination, trying to decide on the least terrible name we could think of. Before my arrival the band was know as “SOME TOFFEES” and we all agreed that name had to go!

++ Had you been involved in bands before being in The Paperboys? And what sparked you, what inspired you, to make music?

My first band was “Noose Slip Ride” in the early 80’s. We had quite a following, which wasnt easy in the days before youtube, facebook and twitter! That ended badly when the guitarist threw a mic stand at me on stage after eating magic mushrooms!! From age 11 I was besotted with Debbie Harry and Blondie. I knew every song by heart, and for as long as I can remember I had wanted to be just like her.

++ So you released only one single, right? In the single you included “This is How I Feel” and “If Only I Had a Wish”. Care to tell me the story behind both songs?

All our songs were written by Steve, and they always had a story behind them. He was the kind of guy who was never lucky in love, and most of his songs reflected that. You know, unrequited love, being ditched, wanting what everyone else had? Both the songs on the single were based on Steves search for love!

++ This single has a very fun artwork. Who made those drawings?

That was all my own work! I found a copy of “The Beano” comic in our rehearsal studio, and as most bands were into the arty out of focus brooding type of photo shoots at that time, I thought I would go in the opposite direction and make us look ludicrous!

++ A promo video was made for “This is How I Feel”. How was that experience? And where was it filmed?
The video was made by a rather wealthy friend of ours who owned a video camera. Nobody had video cameras in the UK in those days, we couldn’t believe our luck!! It was shot in Albert Square, Manchester. Everybody thought we were stars when they saw the camera, and the Punch and Judy guy, and the man in charge of the kiddy ride were falling over themselves to accommodate the shoot, they thought they were going to be on TV!

++ This record was put out by the Music Corporation label. Who were they? And how did you end up signing for them?

Music Corporation was owned by Gary Williams, who was the sound engineer at the studio where we rehearsed. He had heard us playing, and asked could he manage us with a view to releasing the single through his newly formed label. He loved the band, and even added a few of his own cheeky guitar riffs to our music after hours when we left the studio! Steve was NOT amused..

++ And how come you didn’t get to put out any more records? Did you have more songs?

We were very naive looking back, I had expected the single to storm the charts in week 1, and to be a superstar by week 2. When that didnt happen, we did the rounds at the record companies. We had meetings with CBS, Island Records and a few others. CBS at the time wanted a jangly guitar band with a female lead. Allegedly it went down to either ourselves, or a band called The Darling Buds. They won…oh what might have been… 🙁

++ Which would you say was your favourite Paperboys’ song and why?

“Before the sun comes up” was a great song, about having a one night stand but wishing you had met the person under different circumstances so you could see them again. We started each gig with a 1 minute song, just vocals and bass, called “my mum’s in heaven” which really caught the audiences attention. That was a great song, again based on a true story about Steve losing his mum when he was just 11. Real tear jerker!

++ I know you also appeared on a compilation called “This is Manchester”. Do you remember how did you end up there?

Piccadilly Radio was the major station in Manchester, and one of their DJs compiled that CD to promote new Manchester music. It was a great honour to be selected, there were about 300, 000 bands in the city at that time!

++ Am I missing anything? Were there any other compilation appearances perhaps? Or is this your full discography?

Thats all as far as I know. We recorded many times in the studio but nothing else was released. Young people are so lucky these days, they can record studio quality music in their bedroom and keep it forever,!

++ Tell me about gigs? Did you play many? Which were your favourites and why?

We played lots of gigs across the UK, mainly in Manchester. Mark E Smith from The Fall asked us to play at his “Cog Sinister” event at the Green Room in Manchester. It was packed with local celebrities and up and coming bands, we even got our first “rider” 10 cans of beer, peanuts and potato chips! Our biggest gig was at The International, we supported Martin Stephenson and the Daintees, and They Might Be Giants. There were over 1000 people there, and we played one of the best gigs of our career.

++ Which other bands of the period did you like? Maybe you even followed one?

All of our friends were in bands around that time, and we all supported each other. I was a big fan of a local bands “Strange Friends” and Easterhouse” My brother and my boyfriend at the time were in a band called “iota”, they were pretty good. There were so many its hard to remember!!

++ And in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight of The Paperboys?

The biggest highlight has to be you showing an interest after all these years!!
Well, besides that, after our gig at The International, music writer Stuart Marconi reviewed the gig and compared my vocals to Martha Reeves! I grew up on Motown, I’m still a huge fan, so that was the biggest compliment he could have paid me.

++ So then what happened? Why did you split? Did you guys continued making music in one way or another?

To be honest there was not a definite split. When the single didnt get us a record deal, we kind of lost our enthusiasm a bit. The whole “Madchester” thing was emerging, The Stone Roses, Inspiral Carpets, Happy Mondays, all that “E” taking scene, it wasnt what we were about. Steve got married, Pauls career was taking him all over the world, and we had replaced drummer Mark with Eddie, who was more of a cabaret session player. All in all we just drifted apart, stopped arranging rehersals etc. Just a bunch of quitters really,!

++ And what about these days? Are you still all in touch? What other hobbies do you have aside from music?

Paul and I are still in touch via text and email. He lives in Malaysia, married with 2 kids, high up in the oil industry. I havent seen or heard from Steve, Mark or Eddie since the 80’s. I would like to think Steve is still writing music somewhere. I may be biased, but some of his songs were astounding, they would stand up in the music industry today. He wrote straight from the heart, and his lyrics were magical. I still live in Manchester, and my 16 year old son Owen, who plays guitar and drums, starts his his BTEC 2 music course in September.

++ Let’s wrap it here Annette! Thanks a lot again for the interview. Anything else you’d like to add?

Yeah, I would like to say a HUGE thanks for getting in touch, what a surprise! Writing this has brought back some happy memories, I might even dust off my microphone and look for a new band!

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Listen
Paperboys – This Is How I Feel

This Sunday I need to figure out what to play at the Cakeshop for NYC Popfest. I’m DJing between bands and this gives me the opportunity to play whatever I want as nobody but me will care what’s sounding loud in the basement venue. So it’s about really pleasing myself and perhaps a handful of pop enthusiasts that enjoy discovering a thrilling new song. You know, the kind of pop person that is in extinction.

This is the fourth time I believe I’m playing some records for Popfest. Never at the Cakeshop. Before I’ve played some records at Santos, Public Assembly and Littlefield. It was on the latter that I also played between bands, so I didn’t have to cater the crowd with hits. Not that I mind playing hits, I love them, but as of late I prefer dancing to them than me playing them. It’s more fun at the dancefloor.

I remember that just for that time I burned two CD-Rs with my favourite songs at that point of my life. I recall playing The Seashells and The Ropers, among others. I think this is what I should do again this year. Get two or three CD-Rs with my latest music crushes. I’ll try to avoid the mellow ones of course. From the top of my head I want to play Me and Dean Martin’s “When Boys Talk” and Shine!’s “Bite the Apple”. Those two for sure.

The question always arises. Why I don’t bring vinyl records when I’m invited to DJ. Sure friends would love looking at the records, at the sleeves, asking me how much I paid for them or how I got them, or how does this one sounds or the other. Sure. It sounds like fun. But from experience, especially from that time when I happened to play some records at Debaser in Stockholm, I know it can get messy, where beer can be all over the place, dripping, and wetting everything that surrounds the decks. Your records included. Would I risk doing that? I think you can never be too careful. And what if they get scratched? I don’t know, I probably have a shitty equipment at home, but at least it’s just only me who I could blame for ruining a record.

When I lived in Miami, just the same year I started the label (yes I couldn’t be busier), I started a club night with two friends. Well, it was more like a friend organized it and then the three started it. Let’s give credit to who is due. She found the venue, talked with the owner and managed to secure Wednesday’s at what was called the Boom Boom Room. It was on 16th street. On South Beach. Just in front of a Peruvian restaurant, El Chalán. This of course meant a good dinner feast before going to play records.
It wasn’t a success. We played indiepop. I played the classic indiepop, the c86 kind. José played a bit of a mix between britpop, the indiepop classics and some more mainstream pop stuff. It was with him where my differences about The Lucksmiths for example first appeared. He was a huge fan. I couldn’t understand why they were so beloved to him. I never connected to that band, and until this day, even girlfriends, exes, and all kind of people with a close relationship to me have gave me a hard time for not liking them. I actually think some might have stopped liking me because of this. Oh well, you can’t win it all.
And it was Maria who had put all this together and sadly I don’t know where in the world she is. Last time I saw her was in 2008, in NY as she had moved here. I wonder if she still lives here, but I have no clue. I’m not in touch with anyone that knows her anymore. She was the first person, other than myself and Jose, that liked Heavenly in Miami. And that was how we bonded.

Those days, I loved to play music. I don’t like saying I was Djing, because I really wasn’t. I only select a song and press play. I fade out the track when it’s ending, press play on the other CD deck and fade that one in. Easy peasy. It’s not rocket science. Though at that time, in Miami we assumed that being DJ was going to make us super interesting to girls. But that wasn’t the case of course. We weren’t playing the music Miami folks like, we weren’t quite the Ultra Music Festival you know?

Since those days I started another club. Another failure. Then I have been lucky to been invited to play records at many indiepop festivals and gigs. I’ve been lucky to play records in London (many times!), Berlin, Hamburg, Madrid, Stockholm and Malmö. And of course New York. I can’t turn down a “DJ” offer when people ask me. I’m very humbled by it. It’s very nice that people trust your musical taste. It’s true though that I won’t play them some mainstream crap at their gig or festival, you won’t see me playing Rihanna while The School is getting ready to play their set. So yes, I’m trustworthy in that sense unlike some others. But in due honesty, I’ve been losing the zest of playing records for people. And the fact is because I’ve never been able to DJ at Indietracks. I was invited once, true. But I couldn’t say yes before their deadline. I wasn’t sure I was going. But since then I haven’t been asked again. And it’s a shame. As I said, I don’t consider myself a DJ or even a tastemaker, but I do think I do a hell of a job at making people dance. Because I know what people love in indiepop, the songs they heart, and I know I wouldn’t let them down, because the most important piece of this indiepop machine, the one that makes the wheels go round, are the fans. Yes. The fans.

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And before I get too nice and ask for requests let’s move into the important subject, the obscure band of the week. It’s more than true that I have posted three interviews by some fantastic and exciting obscure bands this week. It’s quite a lot. And perhaps you are still reading them, digesting them. But I need to move onto a band you’ve probably never heard about, The Lemon Sleepers.

This band I also had the chance to discover through Rupert’s fantastic mix CD. The lucky part was that I found their 7″ on Musicstack for two meager dollars. Maybe it’s so obscure that nobody buys it. And you can still find it for cheap. If so, I recommend it. It’s truly great. You need it.

The origin of the lemon is a mystery, though it is thought that lemons first grew in Southern India, northern Burma, and China. A study of the genetic origin of the lemon reported that it is a hybrid between sour orange and citron.

I don’t know much about lemons. Though I couldn’t live without them. Imagine that there wouldn’t be ceviche. That would be catastrophic, right? Anyhow, what is a lemon sleeper? It sounds great as a name, but there might be a story behind it.

As far as I know the band only recorded one single. The A side was “The World’s Too Loud” and the B side was “International Smile”. It was released in 1992 and released by Nice Music. Catalog number was 001. I would assume it was a private release.

Both songs have the same credits on the label: “A Holliday / G Holliday”. The A Holliday should be Andy Holliday. The G. Holliday, well, here we have two options. It’s either Gray or Gary.  And I know this because on the back sleeve we get the lineup of the band:

Andy – bass
Gray – keys, backing vocals
Gary – drums
The Stim – guitars
Stuart – vocals

All lyrics are credited to Andy while the music to the Sleepers. The record was recorded at Post House Music and it was engineered by George Althaus.

Post House Music was a studio in East Peckham, in Kent. Were they based there?

The only other credits on the back sleeve that I haven’t mentioned yet are that they had a manager called Daniel P. Riley, and that they thanked Danny & George. Sleeve Design by Deus (?)

Also the lyrics for “The World’s Too Loud” are written there for your singalong pleasure.

That’s all. There’s no more info I have been able to find about them. Maybe some of you have a clue about this band. It seems pretty obscure but we’ve solved so many band mysteries that I’m sure we can fill in the blanks the story of this band. Maybe they had more releases? Maybe some of you saw them live? Maybe you were a friend of them, you gave them a ride to the studio or something. Anyhow, leave a comment if you know the whereabouts of the Lemon Sleepers. For the time being enjoy the jangle thrill that is “The World’s Too Loud”

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Listen
The Lemon Sleepers – The World’s Too Loud

Thanks so much to Nick Smith for the interview! I wrote a bit about them some time ago and he was very kind to get in touch with me to fill in the gaps. Twelve Angry Men released just one 7″, but what a 7″ it is! Just have a listen to Maagdalene and you’ll understand me. They also have a Facebook page for you to become a fan and follow them. And if you want to learn more about this great 80s band, just continue reading!

+ Hi Nick! So I assume the name of the band comes from the 1957 movie?

Yes the band was named after the classic movie starring Henry Fonda.

++ There is barely any information about the band online. How come?! We need to fill in a lot of blanks! So let’s start from the beginning. Who were Twelve Angry Men? And how did you meet?

Paul Flinton-guitar/backing vocals
Paul Lillie-bass/keyboards/backing vocals
Steve Godfrey-drums/backing vocals
Nick Smith-vocals

The band met at secondary school. Flinton and keyboard player Julian Freeguard initially formed it as Trade Secret in 1984 with a different rhythm section and singer. They recorded an accomplished debut track ‘Only Tears’ and performed a number of local gigs, including a school battle of the bands.During this period Smith,Godfrey and Lillie were gradually recruited in readiness for the band’s rebranding as Cry in March 1986 for a school charity event based on Live Aid. It was obvious to all concerned that this line up had a unique chemistry. Freeguard left the band prior to the Twelve Angry Men name change and Lillie completed keyboard duties in the studio. Two temporary keyboardists,James Ruzicka and Julie Boultby performed with the band on occasions before the decision was made to not use keyboards at all.It was only towards the end of the band’s career that mandolin player Chris Zani was recruited as a 5th member.

++ And have you been involved with music before? Any bands?

The schools in Keyworth encouraged music of all types and band members had played in a variety of groups ranging from youth orchestras to heavy metal bands. Flinton had infact made a self assured recording debut on a vinyl 12″ LP fronting the Keyworth Guitar band whilst at junior school, Smith also appeared on the recording. Flinton appeared again with Lillie and Freeguard on a secondary school 12″ LP titled When the Bell Rings.

++ Who or what would you say inspired you all to make music?

The band were all immersed in music and this was a hugely exciting time to be embarking on a career in rock at school. The band’s members had witnessed the punk, New wave and New Romantic movements unfold at first hand and were particularly aware of how a close bond of school friendship had been central to the success of U2 and Spandau Ballet
As Trade Secret and Cry they began interpreting Flinton’s songs with an eclectic mixture of mainstream 1980s styles,fusing electro pop with international arena rock and funk. This invited comparisons with U2 ,INXS, Power Station and Cutting Crew. Over a period of time, however ,the band dispensed with keyboards and under the new name of Twelve Angry Men began cultivating a more alternative image and exploring a uniquely British, guitar based sound as exemplified by independent bands such as Aztec Camera,Prefab Sprout and The Smiths. Flinton continued to develop his songwriting skills in new and unexpected directions, culminating in the 7″ single which was musically and lyrically challenging whilst still remaining radio friendly in the style of New Zealand’s Crowded House.

++ Whereabouts in the UK were you based and in what year do you reckon started as a band?

The band started at school and were based in Keyworth, Nottinghamshire.

++ And what were you all doing at the time? Students perhaps?

All students when it began …… Flinton, Lillie,Godfrey went on to higher education … Smith went to college then took up full time employment.

++ You only released one record, and what a great record it was from what I’ve heard. But I have to ask, why didn’t you release any other records? It wasn’t due to a lack of songs, right?

Correct. The band was always introducing new material into the live set and Flinton was a particularly prolific songwriter.The main reason for the lack of vinyl product is that since the release of Cry Pretend they had been courting major label interest,in particular from an executive at CBS records which required a lot of time to be spent on writing, performing at showcases and creating demo tracks rather than creating a commercially finished product.

++ Speaking of that, are there any more Twelve Angry Men recordings other than the two songs on the 7″?

In spring 1986 Cry produced a 4 track cassette called Cry Pretend at Square Dance studio in Derby featuring; Chance , Pretend . Live on the front front page…Running away.In Spring 1987 the band returned to the studio to record Fall to me, Thoughts, The More You Give. These last three tracks were not available on cassette until Summer 1988 when they were put out with four new songs recorded at Trent Bridge studio in Nottingham; Too young, Can I handle You , Take Me With You , Under the bridge. This cassette was called Tupelo and featured the new name of Twelve Angry Men. Many of the band’s live shows were also recorded.

++ Tell me about the songs on the record, “Magdalene” and “Clyde”? What’s the story behind them and are they based on real people?

Both are about fictitious people. Magdalene features a character regretting his spiritual life of celibacy whilst Clyde tells a tale of abuse, drunkenness and ultimately murder.

++ The record was released by Everbimes Records. Who were they? And how did you end up releasing with them?

The label Everbimes was the label associated with the recording studio, Meadow Farm and the owner Stuart field. The single was recorded there and released on Stuart’s own label. Stuart played bass with The Nolan sisters and The Royal Philharmonic orchestra
++ What about gigs? Did you play live a lot? If so what were your favourite gigs? Any favourite venues and bands to play with?
The band started gigging during school holiday / university term times around Nottingham. Following CBS interest the band went professional and gigged all around UK, doing on average 1 gig every 3 days for the year. Godfrey, Flinton and Lillie took a gap year from higher education in order to do this. Best gigs .. Mean fiddler , The Hype at the Bull and Gate , Leadmill Sheffield , Rock garden – Covent Garden , Hogs Grunt. The band were featured on the same bill as Fire next time, The National People’s gang. The Fatima Mansions, Voice of the Beehive amongst others and gigged relentlessly around UK at universities and colleges

++ What do you remember from the recording session of the record? Any fun anecdotes?

Godfrey smashed a milk bottle at end of Clyde.It was a complete accident but perfectly in time and keeping with the atmosphere of the song. The engineer for a pre-production recording of The Heart of Magdalene in London was the fiddle player of the Wonder Stuff. Cry-Pretend was engineered by Andy Ryder, singer from a celebrated band called Medium,Medium and then The Scare Hunters.The second Square dance session was engineered by a guy called Fidge who later engineered for the band during their first London gigs.

++ Looking now, in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight of Twelve Angry Men?

The band would cite a performance at the Mean fiddler in London as a career highlight. Their residencies at Yates and The Hippo Club in Nottingham are also particularly memorable for generating a huge local fan base.

++ And when and why did you split? What did you all do after?

The last gig was in Mansfield August 1989 after which the band split in order to pursue other projects which had been put on hold during the full time year. The philosophy in the group at the time was that it was “all or nothing”. The band had given itself a one year window in which to succeed and had not achieved the level of recognition which it believed to be necessary to justify continuing.

++ What about these days? What do you guys are up to? Any other hobbies aside from music that you enjoy?

PF ….Working in Canada
NS …. Operatic theatre
SG … Still drumming
PL…..Succesful career as musical tribute artist
CZ ….. Missing in action

++ And one last question, have you ever thought of perhaps reforming? Or releasing a retrospective album?

We are currently planning a band reunion and producing compilation album.

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Listen
Twelve Angry Men – Magdalene

Thanks so much to Ali Wilson for the interview! The Legendary Hearts released one 12″ that is quite a masterpiece! And if you haven’t heard about them, perhaps it’s time for you to discover them. As it seems, they are still going strong and you can keep track of them on their soundcloud. And also they have a Facebook page so you can become a fan!

++ I see you are still making music! How does it sound? How would you compare it to The Legendary Hearts?

It still IS, and always will be, “The Legendary Hearts”. TLH are MY band and are the only band I write for. I like to think it sounds like a natural progression of what we did before in the 80s and 90s.

++ Were The Legendary Hearts your first band? Which bands have you been involved with so far?

No I played drums in several bands before TLH. The main ones were “The Curious Reign” from Stirling in Scotland, from 1981-82 and “Watch With Mother” from Edinburgh in 1986-87. WWM released one single “Suzanne” in 1986 on my Surfin’ Pict label. It’s hard to find copies now.

++ Let’s talk about The Legendary Hearts. How did the band start? Who were the members and how did you know each other?

The idea for TLH started in Stirling in 1984 when I saw Lou Reed’s “Legendary Hearts” album in a record store and decided…”That’s what I’m gonna call my band!” I was writing songs back then but didn’t actually put the band together until early 1987, using ex-members of Watch With Mother.

++ What about the name of the band? Where does it come from?

The Lou Reed record!

++ When did you pick up for the first time an instrument? And which can you play?

I’ve been trying to play guitar since I was 10 and I’m still crap! I’ve been playing drums since I was 12 and that’s how I make my living today: Playing and teaching drums.

++ And what would you say was that moment that you said, “I want to have a band, I want to make music”? Who would you say were your influences for The Legendary Hearts sound?

In 1983 I was heavily into The Church, from Australia, and The Waterboys, and decided I wanted to change from playing drums and attempt to front a band, doing something similar to both these great bands.

++ You only released as far as I know the “In a World Like This” EP. It’s such a great record! Do you mind telling me the story behind each of the three songs?

That was our only release on Surfin’ Pict Records but we had two tracks, “Ferryman” and “Promised Land”  included on The CaVa Sessions compilation LP in 1990 on the TLV label.

From the EP, “What In The World” is partly about an ex-girlfriend, as I guess is “Love & Understanding”. “Everything I Have” is a love song but also touches on consumerism, the Middle East, the US military presence in Scotland and the impending Apocalypse!

++ What about compilations? Did you appear in any?

Only “The CaVa Sessions”. Again it’s hard to find but it was available on vinyl, CD and cassette. At least 5000 copies were pressed.

++ On Soundcloud there are many unreleased songs by the band. Why weren’t they released? And are there even more songs than this? If so, have you ever thought of doing some sort of retrospective album?

Most of the songs are “bedroom demos”. There are around 30 tracks in total. I always intended to re-record about 15 of them properly and put them out as the first TLH album…but money was short and the years flew by…I got married / divorced, had 3 kids and never got around to doing the LP.

++ In general, what would you say is your favourite Legendary Hearts songs? and why?

I like most of them. I have no real favourite. All the songs mean something to me and remind me of a certain time or event. “Queen Of Lorient” from 2001 is one I really like, but the subject matter is painful and I don’t know if I ever want to sing it live again .

++ You put your EP out under your own record label Surfin’ Pict. Why did you decide to go this way instead of looking for a label? How did you enjoy doing the business part of the music?

I decided to put out the EP first and try to get a deal off the back of it. We got a couple of decent reviews but the major UK music press ignored us. We had some major label interest but no deal was ever forthcoming.

++ Were there any other releases in the label?

Yes. Watch With Mother “Suzanne” was the first, SP01. Then a band called The Crepe used the label for their release. SP02, but I wasn’t involved with that. TLH EP was SP03-12. I also released one CD album by a band I drummed with called “The Rainkings” in 1996. Copies are still available I think.

++ Tell me about gigs. Did you play many? What were your favourite gigs? Any fun anecdotes you could share?

We played less than 10 gigs in total, as it was hard to get a full time band together, as all our members were involved with other bands. This is often the way when you are trying to make a living from music. I was drumming with bands in pubs, clubs and hotels at the time trying to earn a living and writing for TLH when time allowed. I enjoyed all the gigs apart from the last one in December 2001 when I used a band who were woefully under-rehearsed. Actually, some band members had never met until we stepped on stage. It was pretty awful. The pressure of fronting a band made it hard for me to have much fun because I was so busy concentrating on my job and keeping the other guys right too.

++ How was Edinburgh back then by the way? What were the best venues? The places were people into guitar pop would hang out? Were there any good bands in town?

Edinburgh was, and still is, a great city, with some great venues and bands. The indie and pop-art crowd would go to the City Cafe, The Doric, The Wee Red Bar (at the Art College) and The Hoochie Coochie Club among many others. The best gigs were mainly at The Venue, The Music Box and La Sorbonne.

++ I’ve been to Edinburgh a couple of times myself and really enjoyed it. I wonder though were would you recommend the best haggis in town? and what about the best cullen skink?

I’m a big haggis fan! You can eat in a Michelin Star restaurant or a simple fish and chip shop and the haggis is usually very good. I like it with a whisky & pepper sauce best. Cullen Skink? Also widely available and usually good at most places in the city centre and beyond.

++ So then what happened? When and why did the band split?

The band is, and always will be, just me myself. I work with a keyboard player who I’ve played with since WWM  in ’86 and then we add members as we need them. I have a pool of guitar players, drummers and bass players who I can approach when required.

++ And are you still in touch with the rest of the band? if so, what are they up to?

Yes, I’m in touch with all of them from the early days. I still play with Lawrie Ball the keyboard player and Glyn Harris the guitarist regularly in cover bands playing around Scotland. Neil Baldwin, the bass player, was not an actual member but played on the EP and at the first gig. He was also in The Bluebells, Goodbye Mr MacKenzie (with Shirley Manson of Garbage), TV21 and is currently with a great band called The Cathode Ray.

++ What about you? Aside from music, do you have any other hobbies?

To be honest, outside of music, I don’t do much. Some mountain biking and hillwalking.

++ One last question, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Being selected in 1989 as one of the top 6 new bands in Scotland for “The CaVa Sessions” album out of 300 bands who entered.

++ Thanks again Ali! Anything else you’d like to add?

I’ll be playing music until the day I die…simple as that!

Thanks for your interest in The Legendary Hearts.

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Listen The Legendary Hearts – Everything I Have